President Bernie Sanders

[deleted171991]

Maybe some day, but also not a prerequisite to saying you don’t get to murder yours

The civilized prerequisite to criticizing a solution is to offer a better one. Not a utopic one, but a "real" one (as in realpolitik).

Also, one cannot just ignore the rights of the (other) human here: the mother. They are not just ovens. And, as a libertarian, I would argue that the embryo/fetus cannot have any rights that infringe on the mother's right to decide about every part of her body. Not even the right to exist.

Now this is an extreme view that works about as well as yours. That's why a functioning democracy is based on compromises (i.e. nobody is happy).

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[deleted480308]

The civilized prerequisite to criticizing a solution is to offer a better one. Not a utopic one, but a "real" one (as in realpolitik).

Also, one cannot just ignore the rights of the (other) human here: the mother. They are not just ovens, you know? And, as a libertarian, I would argue that the embryo/fetus cannot have any rights that infringe on the mother's. Not even the right to exist.

Assuming we’re talking about the large share of abortions, yes, consensual sex absolutely creates a responsibility to follow through with the results if that means a pregnancy. Much like a man shouldn’t be allowed to bail on that, neither should the mom

 

[deleted171991]

Assuming we’re talking about the large share of abortions, yes, consensual sex absolutely creates a responsibility to follow through with the results if that means a pregnancy. Much like a man shouldn’t be allowed to bail on that, neither should the mom

And if the man bails, we should just sew a basketball into his belly for 9 months?

Nobody has the right to tell a person what to do with her own body (in a free country), responsibility or not. This is one of the basic freedoms (ring a bell?). And if they have the freedom to decide about their body, they cannot be punished whatever the decision. It's libertarianism 101.

 

[deleted480308]

And if the man bails, we should just saw a basketball into his belly for 9 months.

Fine with me

 

[Lawpy]

I would estimate that the American people are about as rational as the stock market.

Idk what to expect now

 

[agammaglobulin]

If you watch the new Dave Chappelle on Netflix, he has a funny bit on abortion. Essentially saying if a woman has sole decision making capacity to kill it, a man should have the ability financially separate himself from it. Hard to argue with this logic.

 

[Mikkel]

If you watch the new Dave Chappelle on Netflix, he has a funny bit on abortion. Essentially saying if a woman has sole decision making capacity to kill it, a man should have the ability financially separate himself from it. Hard to argue with this logic.

Why is killing someone "funny"?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

And if the man bails, we should just sew a basketball into his belly for 9 months?

Nobody has the right to tell a person what to do with her own body (in a free country), responsibility or not. This is one of the basic freedoms (ring a bell?). And if they have the freedom to decide about their body, they cannot be punished whatever the decision. It's libertarianism 101.

But with MFA, you give up that right and you give the govt the right to make decisions for your body.

 

[Mikkel]

And if the man bails, we should just sew a basketball into his belly for 9 months?

Nobody has the right to tell a person what to do with her own body (in a free country), responsibility or not. This is one of the basic freedoms (ring a bell?). And if they have the freedom to decide about their body, they cannot be punished whatever the decision. It's libertarianism 101.

It's the opposite of libertarianism to give someone the right to kill someone else.

We're doctors, not idiots. We know the science behind sexual reproduction.

 

[Goro]

Hard to tell if that's worse than the generation whose parents won WWII and who had the world handed to them on a silver platter including the socialist and economic platforms of FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ....and then they become the most selfish pricks in existence, intent on making the world as miserable (or maybe even nonexistent depending on your climate change take) as possible for their grandchildren.

Well, we were kinda busy ending the Vietnam War, fighting for civil right, women's and gay liberation and getting rid of Richard Nixon. Plus starting the environmental movement, but hey, no one's perfect. For all their snowflakery, in all seriousness, I am counting on the Millenials to save the world.

 

[Goro]

Not sure what your plan is for all these pre born humans you want to save. Their parents don’t want them and don’t want to take care of them. You don’t think the government should take care of them. So who takes care of them? You??

Well, the for the Pro-Life crowd, life ends at birth. They're more accurately described as pro-fetus, or pro-birth, but they sure aren't pro-Life.

 

[Lawpy]

Well, we were kinda busy ending the Vietnam War, fighting for civil right, women's and gay liberation and getting rid of Richard Nixon. Plus starting the environmental movement, but hey, no one's perfect. For all their snowflakery, in all seriousness, I am counting on the Millenials to save the world.

Nixon was horrible. By far the worst of 20th century

I get angry when reading about him

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well, the for the Pro-Life crowd, life ends at birth. They're more accurately described as pro-fetus, or pro-birth, but they sure aren't pro-Life.

That’s about as accurate as saying pro-choice people are pro-abortion and just want the freedom to murder fetuses.

 

[Goro]

That’s about as accurate as saying pro-choice people are pro-abortion and just want the freedom to murder fetuses.

I see too much of an attitude from the Pro-life crowd (as evidenced by a poster int his thread) that they have no desire to help kids after birth. So yeah, there is a difference in attitudes of the two sides.

 

[deleted171991]

Nixon was horrible. By far the worst of 20th century

I get angry when reading about him

And still he pales in comparison with our current president.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I see too much of an attitude from the Pro-life crowd (as evidenced by a poster int his thread) that they have no desire to help kids after birth. So yeah, there is a difference in attitudes of the two sides.

I have literally never seen that. I have seen a number of organizations that exist almost exclusively to help women through pregnancy and to help place the children. Meanwhile I’ve seen pro-choice folks use abortion like birth control with no concern.

So I guess I’ll see your anecdote and give you mine. There really isn’t any useful purpose to generalizing an entire viewpoint and the people who hold it by demonizing them. That doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

 

[deleted480308]

Well, the for the Pro-Life crowd, life ends at birth. They're more accurately described as pro-fetus, or pro-birth, but they sure aren't pro-Life.

Certainly anti-murder-your-kids and pro-be-a-damn-parent if you prefer that phrasing

 

[deleted480308]

I see too much of an attitude from the Pro-life crowd (as evidenced by a poster int his thread) that they have no desire to help kids after birth. So yeah, there is a difference in attitudes of the two sides.

Already said I personally fund a children’s home

 

[deleted162650]

Well, we were kinda busy ending the Vietnam War, fighting for civil right, women's and gay liberation and getting rid of Richard Nixon. Plus starting the environmental movement, but hey, no one's perfect. For all their snowflakery, in all seriousness, I am counting on the Millenials to save the world.

OK Boomer

 

[vector2]

I have literally never seen that. I have seen a number of organizations that exist almost exclusively to help women through pregnancy and to help place the children. Meanwhile I’ve seen pro-choice folks use abortion like birth control with no concern.

So I guess I’ll see your anecdote and give you mine. There really isn’t any useful purpose to generalizing an entire viewpoint and the people who hold it by demonizing them. That doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

You’ve literally never seen that? LMFAO. The GOP spends a large percentage of its time fighting against funding for food stamps, WIC, planned parenthood (which does a whole lot more than abortion), Medicaid, and TANF. They unfailingly deride ideas like funding for universal pre-k or forcing corporations to give more paid family leave. These are all things that those unwanted children of mothers who can’t afford to have them need desperately, but as soon as the kid is born all we hear from the anti-abortion crowd are endless moral judgements about how the women should’ve kept their legs closed so the taxpayer doesn’t have to pay for their mistake.


And don’t even get me started on the death penalty.

 

[vector2]

Created peace in the Middle East, solved the opioid epidemic, and now he’s gonna cure COVID. Man, what can’t this boy wonder do

 

[AMEHigh]

I have literally never seen that. I have seen a number of organizations that exist almost exclusively to help women through pregnancy and to help place the children. Meanwhile I’ve seen pro-choice folks use abortion like birth control with no concern.

So I guess I’ll see your anecdote and give you mine. There really isn’t any useful purpose to generalizing an entire viewpoint and the people who hold it by demonizing them. That doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

Since you've never seen it, I'll just give a few examples:

Texas cuts to funding for babies with disabilities

Texas This Week: Cuts to funding for Texas babies with disabilities

As reports indicate the Texas Legislature cut funding for programs to help young children with disabilities, we sat down with the communications director for Texans Care for Children to discuss the findings.

www.kvue.com

Republicans get another win in their fight to gut title X

Republicans Get Another Win in Their Fight to Gut Title X

A ruling from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals paves the way for the administration to begin enforcing catastrophic changes to the federal family planning program.

rewire.news

Trump said he wouldn't cut medicaid, medicare, social security. His 2020 budget cuts all 3

Trump said he wouldn’t cut Medicaid, Social Security, and Medicare. His 2020 budget cuts all 3.

Trump said he wouldn’t be like "every other Republican." He is.

www.vox.com

Trump proposes $15 billion spending cuts, targets children's health program

Trump proposes $15 billion spending cuts, targets children's health program

U.S. President Donald Trump will request a package of $15 billion in spending cuts from Congress on Tuesday, including some $7 billion from the Children's Health Insurance Program championed by Democrats, senior administration officials said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

 

[AMEHigh]

You’ve literally never seen that? LMFAO. The GOP spends a large percentage of its time fighting against funding for food stamps, WIC, planned parenthood (which does a whole lot more than abortion), Medicaid, and TANF. They unfailingly deride ideas like funding for universal pre-k or forcing corporations to give more paid family leave. These are all things that those unwanted children of mothers who can’t afford to have them need desperately, but as soon as the kid is born all we hear from the anti-abortion crowd are endless moral judgements about how the women should’ve kept their legs closed so the taxpayer doesn’t have to pay for their mistake.


And don’t even get me started on the death penalty.

Yep, as an abortion provider when people do reveal the reason for their abortion to me it is often for things like being unable to take time off work because they have no paid maternity leave or paid sick days at their job, working 60 hours a week, but only making minimum wage which isn't a liveable wage, and having a lot of medical bills. One story that sticks with me is a patient with a very much desired pregnancy but her partner had been diagnosed with cancer in the past year and their medical bills were already crippling, and she couldn't take more unpaid time off work for prenatal care, so they decided to have an abortion since the math just didn't add up with being able to afford a child and pay back all their medical debt. So hmm, I wonder what would help these issues that the gop seems to regularly be against....

Also the evidence is clear that abstinence only education doesn't work, so why are they against family planning services? Title X funding has been gutted. They're against medicaid expansion. They're against tha ACA which helps mandate certain birth control and the list goes on.
Bangs head against wall.

 

[deleted171991]

Yep, as an abortion provider when people do reveal the reason for their abortion to me it is often for things like being unable to take time off work because they have no paid maternity leave or paid sick days at their job, working 60 hours a week, but only making minimum wage which isn't a liveable wage, and having a lot of medical bills. One story that sticks with me is a patient with a very much desired pregnancy but her partner had been diagnosed with cancer in the past year and their medical bills were already crippling, and she couldn't take more unpaid time off work for prenatal care, so they decided to have an abortion since the math just didn't add up with being able to afford a child and pay back all their medical debt. So hmm, I wonder what would help these issues that the gop seems to regularly be against....

Also the evidence is clear that abstinence only education doesn't work, so why are they against family planning services? Title X funding has been gutted. They're against medicaid expansion. They're against tha ACA which helps mandate certain birth control and the list goes on.
Bangs head against wall.

God told them to multiply (i.e. every organized religion wants more financial supporters). Hence not multiplying and practicing sex for pleasure (e.g. family planning) is against God/organized religion. Capisci?

That's why there should be a separation of State and Church, for everything, instead of National Prayer Breakfasts.

I honestly don't care either way. I am just a highly-educated well-off agnostic male parasite. It's easy for me to philosophize.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Also the evidence is clear that abstinence only education doesn't work, so why are they against family planning services?

The idiocy of these clowns cannot be understood, that's why!

 

[AMEHigh]

Right now my rent is $2900 for a 1 bedroom and my student loans are $1500 and that's the income based repayment. That's half my salary. My partner pays $600/month for health insurance because he's an independent contract, he goes to the doctor about 1x/year. There's no way I can afford childcare right now, especially since I'd likely need a nanny since I work non-traditional hours. So if my birth control fails or I get raped or I have a fetus with a severe anomoly then I will absolutely have an abortion. Judge me all you want, but I don't care. Ugh makes me so angry. People have to do what's best for them and their families. If there were more social supports I guarantee abortion rates will go down. No, abortion will never completely go away (rightfully so), but society can shape what happens. It's not a coincidence that once birth control became more widely available that abortion rates have steadily gone down.

 

[deleted171991]

Respectfully, why are you in an area with $2900 for a 1BR? And whose fault is that? No abortion for you! Bad mama!

Have you heard about abstinence? Or petting?

 

[deleted480308]

Respectfully, why are you in an area with $2900 for a 1BR? And whose fault is that? No abortion for you! Bad mama!

Have you heard about abstinence? Or petting?

Even if we weren’t talking abortion, $2900 is silly

 

[deleted171991]

Even if we weren’t talking abortion, $2900 is silly

Even abstinence is better in an expensive apartment.

 

[AMEHigh]

Respectfully, why are you in an area with $2900 for a 1BR? And whose fault is that? No abortion for you! Bad mama!

Have you heard about abstinence? Or petting?

Lol at petting.
Yes I could live in apartment with no AC, no laundry or no washer for $2400, but I chose to go for those conveniences. That was not supposed to be a sob story about my life choices!
Sure all of us that live in VHCOL could move to middle america, but that's not realistic either. I'm sure if that were to happen prices would go up like crazy as well. Friends in Denver talk about the expensive rent that they're now seeing since Denver has become so popular.

But overall my point was that there are people paying reasonable rent prices, yet still have things like student loans, medical bills, no paid leave, etc that make it very difficult to be financially stable to support children.

ETA: But on the bright side, I can walk to work most days! So no expensive transit costs or getting coughed on from someone shedding coronovirus on the subway.

 

[BLADEMDA]

He’s also going to get demolished by trump in the debates and hunter will be this season's EMAILS. Ironically a lot of people thought they were picking the safe candidate but they actually picked another Hillary

I think Trump will lose to Biden. I used to think the debates mattered. Now it’s like a WWF fight or 2 NFL teams. Most people have picked a side and the winner of the debate just won’t matter.

All Biden has to do is try to remain coherent and he easily wins the electoral college. Trump’s only chance of victory was a booming economy. I doubt we will be booming by November but the worst will be behind us.

 

[deleted941485]

Respectfully, why are you in an area with $2900 for a 1BR? And whose fault is that? No abortion for you! Bad mama!

Have you heard about abstinence? Or petting?

Please tell me that’s a very large 1 bedroom. Otherwise I might vomit

 

[deleted480308]

I think Trump will lose to Biden. I used to think the debates mattered. Now it’s like a WWF fight or 2 NFL teams. Most people have picked a side and the winner of the debate just won’t matter.

All Biden has to do is try to remain coherent and he easily wins the electoral college. Trump’s only chance of victory was a booming economy. I doubt we will be booming by November but the worst will be behind us.

But he can’t remain coherent

 

[deleted171991]

Please tell me that’s a very large 1 bedroom. Otherwise I might vomit

Claustrophobic? Must be really hard in that small operating room.

 

[nimbus]

Please tell me that’s a very large 1 bedroom. Otherwise I might vomit

One of my partners lives in a 3000+ SF 1br condo.

 

[AMEHigh]

Please tell me that’s a very large 1 bedroom. Otherwise I might vomit

Average rent for 1 bedroom in San Francisco is $3400
Average in NYC is $3100

I wouldn’t say it’s super large, but there is a deck! My bedroom fits a queen bed and dresser, wouldn’t fit a king. The combined rest of the living space is not suffocating.

 

[deleted941485]

Claustrophobic? Must be really hard in that small operating room.

No I’ll vomit due to the shear astronomical price tag with so little.

 

[d9sccr]

I think Trump will lose to Biden. I used to think the debates mattered. Now it’s like a WWF fight or 2 NFL teams. Most people have picked a side and the winner of the debate just won’t matter.

All Biden has to do is try to remain coherent and he easily wins the electoral college. Trump’s only chance of victory was a booming economy. I doubt we will be booming by November but the worst will be behind us.

Think there’s a difference between saying debates don’t matter and the entire country seeing a senile Biden on stage. That’s certainly going to have an effect. It’s still March, in 2 weeks we’ve seen a left for dead Biden emerge as the Democratic candidate and a historic stock market crash. There’s a lot of time between now and November.

Still, Biden’s VP candidate may be the most important VP ever—as far as I know, it’s the first time a presidential candidate will have reached the average life expectancy and may very well have a serious disease on board

 

[BLADEMDA]

Think there’s a difference between saying debates don’t matter and the entire country seeing a senile Biden on stage. That’s certainly going to have an effect. It’s still March, in 2 weeks we’ve seen a left for dead Biden emerge as the Democratic candidate and a historic stock market crash. There’s a lot of time between now and November.

Still, Biden’s VP candidate may be the most important VP ever—as far as I know, it’s the first time a presidential candidate will have reached the average life expectancy and may very well have a serious disease on board

Amy Klobuchar as V-P? I totally agree that Biden has mild dementia right now. But, I suspect Ronald Reagan's dementia was worse during his second term.

 

[deleted126335]

OK Boomer

Sorry that you were late to the party. Pisher.

 

[doctalaughs]

Amy Klobuchar as V-P? I totally agree that Biden has mild dementia right now. But, I suspect Ronald Reagan's dementia was worse during his second term.

I agree 100 percent he has mild dementia. And still will vote for him in a heartbeat over Trump. Sad, that we have a president so bad I would chose someone with dementia (as I suspect 60% of the population would). Wouldn’t choose crazy Bernie socialism over Trump.... but yea, dementia - I’m ok with that.

 

[d9sccr]

Amy Klobuchar as V-P? I totally agree that Biden has mild dementia right now. But, I suspect Ronald Reagan's dementia was worse during his second term.

Could be anyone at this point. I think Biden-Klobuchar would be a winning ticket honestly.

I wonder how “mild” his dementia is. He just suggested a physical altercation with a guy that confronted him about his gun record, within a week of endorsing Beto’s all out assault on guns. Maybe there’s an alternate explanation for it or maybe he doesn’t even remember which side of an issue he falls on

 

[pgg]

But he can’t remain coherent

I'm sure he can remain coherent for long enough stretches to recite "I'm Joe Biden and I approve this message" at the end of his ads.

He's an experienced politician. "Debates" are really just televised recitations of rehearsed sound bites. It's not like he'll have to answer any questions at the debates.

Debate Moderator: "What would you do if Iran attacked Saudi Arabia again?"

Candidate: "I'm glad you asked me that question, because it's very important. And I have a plan. I do. But what I'd really like to talk about is what my opponent did to that goat in Florida last week. I can promise you, that when I am elected president, I will sign comprehensive legislation protecting the dignity of goats, not just in Florida, but all across our great land. God bless America."

It's always his off the cuff town halls and rallies where he tells supporters they're full of ****, challenges them to fisticuffs in the alley, or calls them lying dog faced pony soldiers. If he listens to his handlers and debate preparation team, and stays on script during the debates, he'll probably avoid hurting himself too badly.


And is any of his incoherence really new? Biden is famous for saying wacky stuff. The media chuckles about it and gives it the benign label "gaffe" but he's been doing this stuff forever. We're talking about a guy who advised everyone in the country to get a shotgun and randomly discharge it into the air to scare off burglars. Bill Burr does a nice bit about gettin' a shotty but at least he understands there's potential for needing some drywall work in the aftermath.

 

[pgg]

 

[deleted171991]

I agree 100 percent he has mild dementia. And still will vote for him in a heartbeat over Trump. Sad, that we have a president so bad I would chose someone with dementia (as I suspect 60% of the population would). Wouldn’t choose crazy Bernie socialism over Trump.... but yea, dementia - I’m ok with that.

Character is destiny, dementia or not.

 

[jw3600]

You can’t murder and kill what is not alive.

 

[radsisrad]

I think Trump will lose to Biden. I used to think the debates mattered. Now it’s like a WWF fight or 2 NFL teams. Most people have picked a side and the winner of the debate just won’t matter.

All Biden has to do is try to remain coherent and he easily wins the electoral college. Trump’s only chance of victory was a booming economy. I doubt we will be booming by November but the worst will be behind us.

If he had stuck to the issues he'd championed as a candidate, he's be a shoe-in. Sadly, he turned (whether willfully or due to pressure) into the garden-variety neocon/neolib agenda of kicking the economic can down the road.

Peter Schiff might finally be right in the near future.

 

[deleted171991]

Turned on CNN for 5 minutes, just to hear Biden go crazy left (it's like he's trying to move to Sanders's left) about illegal immigration, sanctuary cities etc.

The democrats haven't learned crap from 2016.

 

[deleted941485]

Turned on CNN for 5 minutes, just to hear Biden go crazy left (it's like he's trying to move to Sanders's left) about illegal immigration, sanctuary cities etc.

The democrats haven't learned crap from 2016.

Ugh of course he did. It’s not much of a debate if your opponent pretty much advocates the same things you do.

 

[deleted171991]

Four more years of Trump will do irreparable damage.

The Coronavirus Called America’s Bluff

Like Japan in the mid-1800s, the United States now faces a crisis that disproves everything the country believes about itself.

www.theatlantic.com