Prestige v Vibe Programs

[OrgoCoop]

Program A;
- Ranked highly per Doximity, name recognition value?
-Plenty of clinical and professional opportunities
- High fellowship match
- Great vibe
- Not great location

Program B;
- Mid level rank?
- plenty of clinical opportunities, less professional than A but still there
- good fellowship match (top choice or second)
- AMAZING vibe from everyone
- Fantastic location

Thoughts?

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[2buckchuck]

Vibe 100%

 

[Justice4all]

Vibe! Can I chill with them after work? 4 years is a long time

 

[CopaceticOne]

You're going to be spending 60-80hrs a week with these people / places (depending on clinical rotations). Unless you are 100% certain that you are going an academic route for your career the name isn't as important. If name chasing, look at the alumni and where they are ending up if they choose no fellowship.

Things you didn't mention: What is the cost of living at these places? What is the pay? 45K in a high COL location is way different than 65K in a low COL location. That extra money really affects how life goes outside of work.

All in all, I always tell interviewees to trust their gut and go with the place they think they will be happiest.

 

[deleted171991]

Doximity is worthless. It's about as valuable as the Best Doctors lists.

Location doesn't matter. You're not there for sightseeing, or for life. You wouldn't go to Mayo because it's in Rochester, MN?

Name does matter, but vibe beats name (as long as it's a good, regionally well-known, program). However, the vibe I care about is the one I get from the faculty, not the trainees. Anesthesia is mostly a solo sport.

 

[nimbus]

Location doesn't matter. You're not there for sightseeing, or for life. You wouldn't go to Mayo because it's in Rochester, MN?

I wouldn’t. It was completely off my radar because of location.

 

[psychbender]

Even more important, where do you want to work, and are either of those places anywhere near that? Are their graduates getting good jobs where you want to settle after residency? Aside from cardiac, most anesthesia fellowships are not competitive, and will take anyone interested with half a personality and at least average ITE scores (even those are not always needed). From those like things you've said, is go with option 2. You're spending four years with these people. If you can't get along, it will be miserable, no matter how good the program looks on paper, or the contacts you can make.

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[deleted162650]

Even more important, where do you want to work, and are either of those places anywhere near that? Are their graduates getting good jobs where you want to settle after residency?

This

 

[BLADEMDA]

Program A;
- Ranked highly per Doximity, name recognition value?
-Plenty of clinical and professional opportunities
- High fellowship match
- Great vibe
- Not great location

Program B;
- Mid level rank?
- plenty of clinical opportunities, less professional than A but still there
- good fellowship match (top choice or second)
- AMAZING vibe from everyone
- Fantastic location

Thoughts?

I like them both based on your post above. Unlike the some of the posters I do think name recognition has some value just not an overwhelming amount.
It is one factor among many.

Program B is just fine because of the good fellowship Match which is very important for an academic career. Location matters as does COL, weather, family, safety of hospital, etc.

 

[OrgoCoop]

You're going to be spending 60-80hrs a week with these people / places (depending on clinical rotations). Unless you are 100% certain that you are going an academic route for your career the name isn't as important. If name chasing, look at the alumni and where they are ending up if they choose no fellowship.

Things you didn't mention: What is the cost of living at these places? What is the pay? 45K in a high COL location is way different than 65K in a low COL location. That extra money really affects how life goes outside of work.

All in all, I always tell interviewees to trust their gut and go with the place they think they will be happiest.

would say they are equal in COL/pay.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Doximity is worthless. It's about as valuable as the Best Doctors lists.

Location doesn't matter. You're not there for sightseeing, or for life. You wouldn't go to Mayo because it's in Rochester, MN?

Name does matter, but vibe beats name (as long as it's a good, regionally well-known, program). However, the vibe I care about is the one I get from the faculty, not the trainees. Anesthesia is mostly a solo sport.

Worthless might be a bit harsh. If anything, it compiles NIH funding ranks for me.

 

[OrgoCoop]

You're going to be spending 60-80hrs a week with these people / places (depending on clinical rotations). Unless you are 100% certain that you are going an academic route for your career the name isn't as important. If name chasing, look at the alumni and where they are ending up if they choose no fellowship.

Things you didn't mention: What is the cost of living at these places? What is the pay? 45K in a high COL location is way different than 65K in a low COL location. That extra money really affects how life goes outside of work.

All in all, I always tell interviewees to trust their gut and go with the place they think they will be happiest.

Thanks for this. I kinda feel like I'm torn between 2-3 places. They're all awesome programs with awesome people. Feel like I would be equally happy at any of them, hence the thread. Wish I had a stronger "gut" feeling!

 

[deleted171991]

Thanks for this. I kinda feel like I'm torn between 2-3 places. They're all awesome programs with awesome people. Feel like I would be equally happy at any of them, hence the thread. Wish I had a stronger "gut" feeling!

Then choose the one that's in the area you want to live in afterwards. The contacts will be priceless.

 

[OrgoCoop]

I feel like I should quantify this claim more;
-Program A vibe; 8/10
- Program B vibe; 10/10

 

[OrgoCoop]

Then choose the one that's in the area you want to live in afterwards. The contacts will be priceless.

Program A's graduates go anywhere they want. Local or otherwise.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

You are gonna get good vibes from a lot of places. After all, it’s anesthesia, tends to select for pretty cool people. However, the medicine practiced at university hospitals and tertiary centers can be very different than smaller community places. Top hospitals are the top for a reason: advanced cardiac, transplant surgeries, ICU patients, ECMO, etc. The attendings there may also be more up to date on practices and can teach that. I’d recommend you go to a program where you get top notch training; “cool vibes” come second.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

I did my fellowship at a place with a "name" and I will admit it likely opened up more opportunities that I may not have had otherwise.

 

[psychbender]

Program A's graduates go anywhere they want. Local or otherwise.

Ok, that's fine, but I think you're missing part of what we're saying. If you want to work in Connecticut, for example, you would probably be better off going to a good program in the region and having several residents in the years immediately before you graduate joining nearby groups, than going to Mayo, Stanford, or Duke. Yeah, they have great names, and their graduates can get jobs "anywhere," but if no one from that program has gone off to a job in your desired state in the last decade, you're without any inside connections to the desired job market. You won't know which groups are about to lose contracts or get bought out. You won't know which are predatory. You won't know anyone in the really great groups that can tell the other partners, "no, really, we want this guy/gal in our amazing, >95% MGMA group."

If both groups you mentioned are in the same region as you want to work afterwards, then this point for you is moot (but I'll say it anyway, for the benefit of other students reading).

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[hununuh]

Everyone is telling you program B would be a better fit, but you keep bringing up “but program A has this too”

Just go to program A man. You clearly want to go to program A, and are just looking for confirmation.

I agree with everyone that you will be better served in program B, but if you have any reservation about giving up on the prestige, you also wont be happy in the program B. You will keep telling yourself “i shouldve gone to the program A”

 

[deleted171991]

Anyway, s/he'll have buyer's remorse.

I went to program B for my fellowship, and then my program A former residency refused to give me ICU time probably because program B wasn't a big enough name for them. Even my current combined job I got because of my residency, not my fellowship. So while great vibes are important, known brands open doors.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Everyone is telling you program B would be a better fit, but you keep bringing up “but program A has this too”

Just go to program A man. You clearly want to go to program A, and are just looking for confirmation.

I agree with everyone that you will be better served in program B, but if you have any reservation about giving up on the prestige, you also wont be happy in the program B. You will keep telling yourself “i shouldve gone to the program A”

Not really, they feel equivocal in my mind and I’m trying to clarify some of the details that people bring up.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Anyway, s/he'll have buyer's remorse.

I went to program B for my fellowship, and then my program A former residency refused to give me ICU time probably because program B wasn't a big enough name for them. Even my current combined job I got because of my residency, not my fellowship. So while great vibes are important, known brands open doors.

So would we say that prestige is more important for fellowships?

 

[anaesthetic]

.

 

[deleted171991]

So would we say that prestige is more important for fellowships?

I probably wasn't clear enough.

I chose my residency based on the brand, and the brand didn't disappoint, but I wasn't happy. So, when choosing my fellowship, I put my gut feeling first, and I fell in love with the PD and faculty of a less well-known program. It was the best year of medical education I ever had, but people are not as impressed as if I did my fellowship at, let's say, a Harvard program.

People tend to judge a lot of things by the packaging. Your training is not an exception. A good brand name on your resume will get you an interview a less well-known program may not. That's true both for residency and fellowship. I got my current anesthesia-critical care job because of my residency, not my fellowship; brands do matter.

 

[deleted162650]

Brands matter more in academia.

Connections/network matter more in PP.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Brands matter more in academia.

Connections/network matter more in PP.

Thanks, that’s actually a super helpful summation of things haha

 

[DrZzZz]

Brands matter more in academia.

Connections/network matter more in PP.

Brand can only help in PP if you're moving regions and have no connections to the area/group. But yes, connections matter more in PP.

 

[deleted875186]

This can be simplified. Just rank Program A first, program B second, that’s clearly how you’re leaning.

If you don’t match at program A, **** them, you’ll be happier at program B.

 

[OrgoCoop]

This can be simplified. Just rank Program A first, program B second, that’s clearly how you’re leaning.

If you don’t match at program A, **** them, you’ll be happier at program B.

Thanks for the input. So, do you do psychoanalysis over forum threads often?

 

[hununuh]

Thanks for the input. So, do you do psychoanalysis over forum threads often?

Wow you got some nerves, kid. You asked for advice and people on the forum are giving you one. Honestly, you sound annoying as hell and I really wish you dont end up at my program.

 

[deleted875186]

Thanks for the input. So, do you do psychoanalysis over forum threads often?

Just giving my two cents. I think most medical students are predominantly interesting in reputations of programs and are willing to look past many other things to do residency at a prestigious program. I think the advice given above is all excellent.

My advice is don’t just assume you’ll match at your number one. If you truly like both programs than just rank them and you’ll be happy matching at either one.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Wow you got some nerves, kid. You asked for advice and people on the forum are giving you one. Honestly, you sound annoying as hell and I really wish you dont end up at my program.

Relax, I was trolling the troll.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Just giving my two cents. I think most medical students are predominantly interesting in reputations of programs and are willing to look past many other things to do residency at a prestigious program. I think the advice given above is all excellent.

My advice is don’t just assume you’ll match at your number one. If you truly like both programs than just rank them and you’ll be happy matching at either one.

Thanks for clarifying. I haven’t made up my mind yet because both are great programs with great people.

 

[buccsmf1]

Location doesn't matter. You're not there for sightseeing, or for life. You wouldn't go to Mayo because it's in Rochester, MN?

eh to each there own. these are 4 good years of your life, for many of us its our mid to late 20s. No, personally, i would absolutely not live in rochester, no matter how great Mayo is. theres a reason NYC programs are regularly the most competitive in the country, and just about anyone can walk into clevaland clinic. I trained in Chicago, and they 4 of the most fun years of my life, and I still received a phenomenal training. wouldnt trade that for anything

 

[Ronin786]

Relax, I was trolling the troll.

You sound like you'd fit right in at Program A.

 

[OrgoCoop]

You sound like you'd fit right in at Program A.

Y’all take yourselves too seriously on an Internet forum. Goodness.

 

[Ronin786]

Y’all take yourselves too seriously on an Internet forum. Goodness.

Probably as serious as soliciting advice from an online forum on how to spend the next 4 years.

 

[neutro]

Dont be so sure, you may not end up matching in either of those programs. I have seen funny things happen match time.
Mentally prepare yourself for that possibility as well.

 

[hebel]

If by vibe, you mean you got along well with the residents during your interview day...I would not put a lot of weight on that. If it means more than that, then make it as important of a factor as you want.

Residency class culture can change a lot year to year. Also, the particular residents you interact with at dinner or lunch is a crapshoot. At my own program I can see how an applicant could come away with completely different "vibes" about our residents simply depending on which residents attended the dinner or lunch.

 

[CubsDynasty]

Also the CA2s/3s you meet will be long gone before you get to the ORs.

But if they are happy and well rested that means a lot.

 

[Omppu27]

If by vibe, you mean you got along well with the residents during your interview day...I would not put a lot of weight on that. If it means more than that, then make it as important of a factor as you want.

Residency class culture can change a lot year to year. Also, the particular residents you interact with at dinner or lunch is a crapshoot. At my own program I can see how an applicant could come away with completely different "vibes" about our residents simply depending on which residents attended the dinner or lunch.

Exactly. I never understood why people put so much into the interview day/dinner.

Clinical volume/acuity/fellowships and location. Everything else pales in comparison IMO.

 

[OrgoCoop]

Exactly. I never understood why people put so much into the interview day/dinner.

Clinical volume/acuity/fellowships and location. Everything else pales in comparison IMO.

Eh, I think you can likely get a vibe for the culture of a place via dinner and the interview day. I’m not choosing based off particular people I met.