Prestigious DO school

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JaggerPlate said:
They don't, and I mean no disrespect by it. Every doc I've talked to about my application is blown away at what you have to go through and they all say they wouldn't have done it/got in now a days.
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They had it worse when everything was done on paper. All you have to do after you complete your classes is take the MCAT, fill out an AACOMAS/AMCAS, send in some LORs/Transcripts, fill out secondaries, and wait... as a non-traditional coming from another career I can tell you that no worthwhile career out there is easy to get into and because most of you have 0 life experiences that required real-world involvement that you're solely responsible for, you're going to whine. Boohoo.
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n618ft said:
They had it worse when everything was done on paper. All you have to do after you complete your classes is take the MCAT, fill out an AACOMAS/AMCAS, send in some LORs/Transcripts, fill out secondaries, and wait... as a non-traditional coming from another career I can tell you that no worthwhile career out there is easy to get into and because most of you have 0 life experiences that required real-world involvement that you're solely responsible for, you're going to whine. Boohoo.
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Oh, thats it? :laugh:. Only takes about a four years of classes/prep and a year of application crap JUST to get a green light to START your medical TRAINING. We're not even talking about post-grad OR your actual medical career.

Plus I think you might be misunderstanding Jagger...

He's saying doctors he's talked to feel that its harder to get into medical school now than it was when they applied (which is true)...never does he mention or compare medicine to other 'worthwhile careers'.

You just trying to stir the pot or what?

Edit: Not trying to negate your "real-life-experience", whatever that means, but Im really not sure where your rant came from. Or why you felt like Jagger was whining..
 
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*** Forget it, had a big rant, but don't feel like bickering.
 
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DoktorB said:
Oh, thats it? :laugh:. Only takes about a four years of classes/prep and a year of application crap JUST to get a green light to START your medical TRAINING. We're not even talking about post-grad OR your actual medical career.

Plus I think you might be misunderstanding Jagger...

He's saying doctors he's talked to feel that its harder to get into medical school now than it was when they applied (which is true)...never does he mention or compare medicine to other 'worthwhile careers'.

You just trying to stir the pot or what?

Edit: Not trying to negate your "real-life-experience", whatever that means, but Im really not sure where your rant came from. Or why you felt like Jagger was whining..
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Yeah, I wasn't whining ... I was just stating the opinion of the docs I had talked to ... the poster misinterpreted what I was saying, I'm not going to argue it.
 
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DoktorB said:
Oh, thats it? :laugh:. Only takes about a four years of classes/prep and a year of application crap JUST to get a green light to START your medical TRAINING. We're not even talking about post-grad OR your actual medical career.

Plus I think you might be misunderstanding Jagger...

He's saying doctors he's talked to feel that its harder to get into medical school now than it was when they applied (which is true)...never does he mention or compare medicine to other 'worthwhile careers'.

You just trying to stir the pot or what?

Edit: Not trying to negate your "real-life-experience", whatever that means, but Im really not sure where your rant came from. Or why you felt like Jagger was whining..
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Haha... just trolling a bit of course. I'm just tired of hearing doctors whining about their jobs... everyone whines about their jobs unless they're getting paid $1,000,000 with no qualifications to do nuthin'... and even then they would get bored. I guarantee most of the people on here that have had challenging careers before applying understand that it's all relative. I think there will be enough new medical schools in the next 5 years that it'll take a bit off the pressure of how hard it is to get in.

Also, I don't understand why everyone kills themselves with 4 years of bio/chem/physics unless they truly love that stuff... what do they do if they don't get into med school? Do something as a backup plan, diversify, and get your basic prereqs in for med school. It won't seem like you spent 4 years trying to get in... then all the whining will stop :D
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yeah, I wasn't whining ... I was just stating the opinion of the docs I had talked to ... the poster misinterpreted what I was saying, I'm not going to argue it.
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I was referring to the docs whining, not you :thumbup:
 
There aren't any DO's at CHOP right now (Penn's program) which is telling considering they have over 100 residents. But I noticed on their FAQ page that they mention taking USMLE or COMLEX scores. Seems weird that they would specifically talk about getting your COMLEX scores if they absolutely don't consider DO's. I wonder if they've ever graduated a DO in the past?

As for Jeff... I too have heard that they won't consider a DO. But come on, is a family practice program really such a big loss? No offense, but I don't know what their problem is... far more competitive programs within their own institution (Jeff that is) have DOs. They're weird.
 
I have eight DO schools that I will apply to no matter what. I have about eight more that under no circumstances I will apply to. This is based on talking to 5+ people at each of the schools after they've completed their third and fourth years. The teaching for the first two years is generally the same, and it's the last two that matter, and I've heard some great stories and some horror stories. The great stories, consistantly from multiple people give me a lot of confidence, while the horror stories (especially two of those schools where I contacted 11-12 people each, and every single one gave an D or F for the final two years) I will avoid.

I think you just need to do your own research to see what fits. Unlike MD schools, there is no rankings by research $, since DO schools don't do nearly as much research as MD schools.
 
Lokhtar said:
I have eight DO schools that I will apply to no matter what. I have about eight more that under no circumstances I will apply to. This is based on talking to 5+ people at each of the schools after they've completed their third and fourth years. The teaching for the first two years is generally the same, and it's the last two that matter, and I've heard some great stories and some horror stories. The great stories, consistantly from multiple people give me a lot of confidence, while the horror stories (especially two of those schools where I contacted 11-12 people each, and every single one gave an D or F for the final two years) I will avoid.

I think you just need to do your own research to see what fits. Unlike MD schools, there is no rankings by research $, since DO schools don't do nearly as much research as MD schools.
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I tried to PM you, but it says that your inbox is full. Mind shooting me a PM with both those list of 8? I've been doing some research and came up with some lists and would like to compare. Thanks in advance.
 
Lokhtar said:
I have eight DO schools that I will apply to no matter what. I have about eight more that under no circumstances I will apply to. This is based on talking to 5+ people at each of the schools after they've completed their third and fourth years. The teaching for the first two years is generally the same, and it's the last two that matter, and I've heard some great stories and some horror stories. The great stories, consistantly from multiple people give me a lot of confidence, while the horror stories (especially two of those schools where I contacted 11-12 people each, and every single one gave an D or F for the final two years) I will avoid.

I think you just need to do your own research to see what fits. Unlike MD schools, there is no rankings by research $, since DO schools don't do nearly as much research as MD schools.
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I find it funny that your actually applying to DO schools considering the other week I was on the allo boards and you were bashing OMM. Probably a great candidate for DO schools. Best of luck bub.
 
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Lokhtar said:
I have eight DO schools that I will apply to no matter what. I have about eight more that under no circumstances I will apply to. This is based on talking to 5+ people at each of the schools after they've completed their third and fourth years. The teaching for the first two years is generally the same, and it's the last two that matter, and I've heard some great stories and some horror stories. The great stories, consistantly from multiple people give me a lot of confidence, while the horror stories (especially two of those schools where I contacted 11-12 people each, and every single one gave an D or F for the final two years) I will avoid.

I think you just need to do your own research to see what fits. Unlike MD schools, there is no rankings by research $, since DO schools don't do nearly as much research as MD schools.
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I'm curious to hear the eight you are applying to. Would you mind posting or sending me a PM??
 
MSUSpartan642 said:
I find it funny that your actually applying to DO schools considering the other week I was on the allo boards and you were bashing OMM. Probably a great candidate for DO schools. Best of luck bub.
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I was mainly bashing cranial.
 
n618ft said:
what do they do if they don't get into med school? Do something as a backup plan, diversify, and get your basic prereqs in for med school. It won't seem like you spent 4 years trying to get in... then all the whining will stop :D
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Yea that can be a problem..I feel bad for the ones that just end up being lab TA's at our school or having their dreams crushed when they realize they won't ever make it, I've seen a few people go through that. I naively didn't realize it would be a very real possibility not to get in until I was almost a senior in college. But I knew I would end up in the health field one way or another. PA's have it pretty good :thumbup:
 
DoktorB said:
Yea that can be a problem..I feel bad for the ones that just end up being lab TA's at our school or having their dreams crushed when they realize they won't ever make it, I've seen a few people go through that. I naively didn't realize it would be a very real possibility not to get in until I was almost a senior in college. But I knew I would end up in the health field one way or another. PA's have it pretty good :thumbup:
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I had a research adviser one time who was like basically the assistant to the PD, and she was a failed pre-med who had went to my undergrad some years before. She seemed so like dissatisfied and almost bitter whenever I'd bring up applying. Needless to say, I wasn't on that project very long. Hahaha.
 
Bacchus said:
University of Pennsylvania has no DOs in its pediatric residency. Its one of the top programs in the country. Jefferson doesn't look at DOs for family medicine (from a Jefferson graduate) but will consider FMGs. As a PCOM student, this is disheartening considering PCOM is well known in the city.

Its ironic this discussion is going on because I'm having it with some of the other moderators right now.
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Penn has DOs in its Internal Medicine residency. I actually found quite a few DOs in teaching positions at some top medical schools. I found a PCOM graduate at Duke. Some DMU and AZCOM graduates at Stanford. A Touro CA graduate at UCSF. Its definitely possible to do well as a DO.
 
Lokhtar said:
I have eight DO schools that I will apply to no matter what. I have about eight more that under no circumstances I will apply to. This is based on talking to 5+ people at each of the schools after they've completed their third and fourth years. The teaching for the first two years is generally the same, and it's the last two that matter, and I've heard some great stories and some horror stories. The great stories, consistantly from multiple people give me a lot of confidence, while the horror stories (especially two of those schools where I contacted 11-12 people each, and every single one gave an D or F for the final two years) I will avoid.

I think you just need to do your own research to see what fits. Unlike MD schools, there is no rankings by research $, since DO schools don't do nearly as much research as MD schools.
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I've got a whole bunch of people asking me for my list, and right now I am a little reluctant to give it out because:

A) The sample size is still small
B) I don't feel like fending off the fanbois

I think I probably wouldn't mind giving out the schools that are great, but I am afraid of giving out the list of the schools with really really crappy ratings, especially my method of collecting data is hardly scientific, and I wouldn't want to unfairly demonize anyone in a public place. To me, the massive and consistent amount of consistent and horrific stories are enough of a wake up call, but as I said, the sample size is not enough.

I've talked students from pretty much every single DO school that has been around for more than 4 years (for clinicals).

The one response that has been by far the best has been from students of PCOM-Philly (Average grade of A, from seven people). A couple other schools have also been in the A range. A good guide is that the older the school, the better general response I've gotten, with one or two significant exception both ways.
 
Lokhtar said:
I've got a whole bunch of people asking me for my list, and right now I am a little reluctant to give it out because:

A) The sample size is still small
B) I don't feel like fending off the fanbois

I think I probably wouldn't mind giving out the schools that are great, but I am afraid of giving out the list of the schools with really really crappy ratings, especially my method of collecting data is hardly scientific, and I wouldn't want to unfairly demonize anyone in a public place. To me, the massive and consistent amount of consistent and horrific stories are enough of a wake up call, but as I said, the sample size is not enough.

I've talked students from pretty much every single DO school that has been around for more than 4 years (for clinicals).

The one response that has been by far the best has been from students of PCOM-Philly (Average grade of A, from seven people). A couple other schools have also been in the A range. A good guide is that the older the school, the better general response I've gotten, with one or two significant exception both ways.
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At least you aren't being super vague.

:smuggrin:

PM ME!!!
 
group_theory said:
Well, the University of Pennsylvania does not have a pediatric residency, CHOP (next door) does.

And I have met DOs who were former chief residents from CHOP. I've also met DO pediatric specialists who did their fellowship at CHOP. There was a DO SDN member a few years ago who was a resident at CHOP (probably a fellow or attending somewhere now).

However, there are no current DO residents at CHOP. But CHOP is a competitive program and many competitve applicants apply every year. Also, they require USMLE step 1 and step 2 before they grant interviews (which eliminates a lot of DO applicants who do not plan to take USMLE Step 2)
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I worked at CHOP in the Divisions of Hematology/Oncology, Anesthesiology, IR, Critical Care, and Pulmonary Medicine. I saw plenty of med students who were from a DO school, DO fellows, and DO attendings. It's been awhile but off of the top of my head I can think of at least one DO resident in Anesthesiology. I know there were four DO Attendings in Anesthesiology and I knew a DO Pathologist who was specifically brought in by the Chief of Pediatrics once to give her opinion on a case in Grand Rounds.

As an aside, when I was discussing med school admissions with the Attending I worked with I hesitated when I said I was applying DO - I guess out of ignorance and insecurity at the time. Anyway, she noticed and said something to effect of "why are you even concerned if it's a DO school, no one cares once you start working." And when I listened to the fellows talk at parties etc. outside of work they would never ask about med school - just residency - even then it didn't seem like anyone cared.
 
joboo said:
I worked at CHOP in the Divisions of Hematology/Oncology, Anesthesiology, IR, Critical Care, and Pulmonary Medicine. I saw plenty of med students who were from a DO school, DO fellows, and DO attendings. It's been awhile but off of the top of my head I can think of at least one DO resident in Anesthesiology. I know there were four DO Attendings in Anesthesiology and I knew a DO Pathologist who was specifically brought in by the Chief of Pediatrics once to give her opinion on a case in Grand Rounds.

As an aside, when I was discussing med school admissions with the Attending I worked with I hesitated when I said I was applying DO - I guess out of ignorance and insecurity at the time. Anyway, she noticed and said something to effect of "why are you even concerned if it's a DO school, no one cares once you start working." And when I listened to the fellows talk at parties etc. outside of work they would never ask about med school - just residency - even then it didn't seem like anyone cared.
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We're talking about the pediatrics program only.
 
Thomas Hearns said:
I want the list too! :)

I promise not to respond, whether I agree or not lol Just curious.

Especially about the bad list! :laugh:
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I'm fairly certain it would simply be a slice of the older programs. Probably ones with 3/4th year rotations where you don't move/are done at larger hospitals and not smaller community (this could be wrong) or clinics.
 
I think you should post it! It would be interesting to see what you have come up with!

:thumbup: :D
 
Lokhtar said:
I've got a whole bunch of people asking me for my list, and right now I am a little reluctant to give it out because:

A) The sample size is still small
B) I don't feel like fending off the fanbois

I think I probably wouldn't mind giving out the schools that are great, but I am afraid of giving out the list of the schools with really really crappy ratings, especially my method of collecting data is hardly scientific, and I wouldn't want to unfairly demonize anyone in a public place. To me, the massive and consistent amount of consistent and horrific stories are enough of a wake up call, but as I said, the sample size is not enough.

I've talked students from pretty much every single DO school that has been around for more than 4 years (for clinicals).

The one response that has been by far the best has been from students of PCOM-Philly (Average grade of A, from seven people). A couple other schools have also been in the A range. A good guide is that the older the school, the better general response I've gotten, with one or two significant exception both ways.
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I think you should post it. Afterall, it's your opinion based on students that you've talked to. A lot of us dont have connections with 3rd and 4th year students and dont meet them on interviews because they are off on rotations. I think this would be helpful to a lot of us-- especially those seriously considering a school that we might regret later on.
 
Ty1ersmiler said:
I've been told by 3 or 4 doctors that it doesn't matter whether you go MD or DO neither does it matter which school you go to. It's all about board scores. The only exception would apply to a career focused towards research. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yes, the major importance of becoming a physician is getting good board scores, but keep in mind you do need a good school to teach you how to get the high marks. Some schools have different methods of teaching the curriculum. Therefore, one person may find a schools curriculum advantageous, but not another. Long story short I do feel the school is important in obtaining good board scores, but on an individual student basis. A student from SOMA may destroy the boards exam, but if he/she was a student at Columbia they would do horrible, or vice versa.
 
kopitar said:
Yes, the major importance of becoming a physician is getting good board scores, but keep in mind you do need a good school to teach you how to get the high marks. Some schools have different methods of teaching the curriculum. Therefore, one person may find a schools curriculum advantageous, but not another. Long story short I do feel the school is important in obtaining good board scores, but on an individual student basis. A student from SOMA may destroy the boards exam, but if he/she was a student at Columbia they would do horrible, or vice versa.
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Very unlikely. A good student at one school is more then likely going to be a good student at another school. They may have to adapt to a different curriculum, but what your saying is that the student would suck it up for 2 years and not learn to adapt.

Board scores are a product of how well a STUDENT prepares for the boards based on doing well in school and studying. The only thing that may be different is that one school has a better micro dept or a better pharm dept. In the end though, it's about the student identifying their weaknesses/strs and studying to achieve the best board score.
 
joboo said:
As an aside, when I was discussing med school admissions with the Attending I worked with I hesitated when I said I was applying DO - I guess out of ignorance and insecurity at the time. Anyway, she noticed and said something to effect of "why are you even concerned if it's a DO school, no one cares once you start working." And when I listened to the fellows talk at parties etc. outside of work they would never ask about med school - just residency - even then it didn't seem like anyone cared.
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Given that DOs are definitely a minority, do most DOs stand up for each other in times of need?
 
Bacchus said:
University of Pennsylvania has no DOs in its pediatric residency. Its one of the top programs in the country. Jefferson doesn't look at DOs for family medicine (from a Jefferson graduate) but will consider FMGs. As a PCOM student, this is disheartening considering PCOM is well known in the city.

Its ironic this discussion is going on because I'm having it with some of the other moderators right now.
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They doahve several DO's from PCOM that are in the
Anesthesiology residency
 
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