Prestigious DO school

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Which DO school with your understanding is ranked as one of the top DO schools?
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The search function is your friend. It's hard to throw around a term like prestige, especially with DO schools. This is because normally with a university, prestige comes with time. IE schools that are old are prestigious, but there are a lot of DO schools that are 15-30 years old (young in college/university terms) but excellent. However, if you're looking for old, well known, very well established:

(no particular order)

- PCOM
-CCOM
-KCOM

-all very old, well known and established.
 
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JaggerPlate said:
The search function is your friend. It's hard to throw around a term like prestige, especially with DO schools. This is because normally with a university, prestige comes with time. IE schools that are old are prestigious, but there are a lot of DO schools that are 15-30 years old (young in college/university terms) but excellent. However, if you're looking for old, well known, very well established:

(no particular order)

- PCOM
-CCOM
-KCOM

-all very old, well known and established.
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lol what about DMU
 
doxycycline said:
lol what about DMU
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I'd say the absence of DMU illustrates JaggerPlate's point about the ambiguity and subjectivity of even attempting to generate such a list. It's simply futile and opinionated without any objective criteria.
 
I think that the oldest programs and those associated with established universities would have the best reputation. However, you will most likely get a good education no matter where you go. It really just depends on the individual.

Since osteopathic medicine has spent much of its existence fighting for legitimacy within the medical community, it is really difficult to associate "prestige" with any DO school. Maybe one day this will change.
 
DocHomer said:
I think that the oldest programs and those associated with established universities would have the best reputation. However, you will most likely get a good education no matter where you go. It really just depends on the individual.

Since osteopathic medicine has spent much of its existence fighting for legitimacy within the medical community, it is really difficult to associate "prestige" with any DO school. Maybe one day this will change.
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The old schools have proven themselves time and time again. They survived Flexner, which is a humongous feat.
 
The University of Phoenix COM is ranked within the top three of all the big five ranking lists.
 
I've been told by 3 or 4 doctors that it doesn't matter whether you go MD or DO neither does it matter which school you go to. It's all about board scores. The only exception would apply to a career focused towards research. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I have to agree with ty1ersmiler. A combination of grades, board scores, volunteering, leadership, personal statement, letters of rec, and your interview skills are probably the largest factors short of knowing the residency director or program chair. We send many DO students to both MD and DO radiology, ortho, surgery, anesthesia, ER, psych, etc. residency programs. I have not had any problems thus far with residency interviews being a DO student.

In short, find a place that suits you and you are comfortable in. Make sure they are at least reputable and have some solid hospital affiliations for 3rd and 4th year. I know my school has 4 hospitals around it that are mainly for our school. It doesn't matter if it's a do or md program. It's very difficult to rank programs and unless you go to one of the ivy league allopathic programs, no matter which md or do school you go it will probably make little difference when you apply for residency if you are qualified.

If I can help please let me know. I was in your shoes once asking the same exact question when I was applying.
 
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jkmph said:
I'd say the absence of DMU illustrates JaggerPlate's point about the ambiguity and subjectivity of even attempting to generate such a list. It's simply futile and opinionated without any objective criteria.
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Precisely. DMU is a wonderful school, and I honestly mean it no disrespect whatsoever. Making these lists is completely subjective, and I can assure you that if you attend a medical school simply based on prestige and not fit ... you won't be happy and probably won't succeed as well as you would have somewhere else.
 
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Scorcher31 said:
I have to agree with ty1ersmiler. A combination of grades, board scores, volunteering, leadership, personal statement, letters of rec, and your interview skills are probably the largest factors short of knowing the residency director or program chair. We send many DO students to both MD and DO radiology, ortho, surgery, anesthesia, ER, psych, etc. residency programs. I have not had any problems thus far with residency interviews being a DO student.

In short, find a place that suits you and you are comfortable in. Make sure they are at least reputable and have some solid hospital affiliations for 3rd and 4th year. I know my school has 4 hospitals around it that are mainly for our school. It doesn’t matter if it's a do or md program. It's very difficult to rank programs and unless you go to one of the ivy league allopathic programs, no matter which md or do school you go it will probably make little difference when you apply for residency if you are qualified.

If I can help please let me know. I was in your shoes once asking the same exact question when I was applying.
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I agree. It is less about where you went to medical school and more about your performance. School rankings are generally more important in law and business as it can make a big difference on where you will work directly out of school. "Prestige" should be a non-issue in deciding where to go to med school.
 
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Exactly. I know a girl who got into Harvard residency program for general surgery and she attended Oklahoma St. COM. She had very good board scores, great recs, AND she went D.O. medical school, so, if one the best medical schools in the world allows D.O.'s....it doesn't matter anymore. That has been my take on it. I know people with very high MCAT scores applying DO because of the practicing of treating holistic medicine.
 
Its not so clear cut. I would love to think as a DO I will have no limitations in what I can obtain (except those limitations imposed by me). However, this isn't true and won't be true for a while. The DO degree is pervading more and more places each year which is good news for us, but our integration isn't as nearly far-stretched as some would want you to believe. With that said, the degree will not limit you as much as you will limit yourself.
 
Bacchus said:
Its not so clear cut. I would love to think as a DO I will have no limitations in what I can obtain (except those limitations imposed by me). However, this isn't true and won't be true for a while. The DO degree is pervading more and more places each year which is good news for us, but our integration isn't as nearly far-stretched as some would want you to believe. With that said, the degree will not limit you as much as you will limit yourself.
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Here's the thing, in my opinion as an MS-0 (ie not as gewd as yours):

Yes, of course there are ways the DO degree will hinder you. IE, don't expect to attend a DO school, work real hard, and land an ACGME integrated plastics residency. BUT, in the same vein, don't count on barely squeaking into your state MD school, get average stats and waltz into an integrated plastics residency. People tend to think of the MD as the end all, but this just isn't true. When it comes down to bare bones, it's about you, and don't expect to get anything you haven't earned. In the same sense, be reasonable. However, for 99% of cases (IE get good grades, do g-surg, then AOA PRS fellowship --> same plastic surgeon as the ACGME MD with the perfect USMLE score), you will be able to pull it off.

With all that said too ... don't ever let anybody tell you that you can't do something. In my opinion, should you always be logical and plan accordingly?? Sure. But if you want derm (for example) get out there and do work. Don't let anyone say you can't do it because you're coming from a DO school (to my knowledge, two DOs matched ACGME derm in 09 and god knows how many matched AOA derm as a PGY-2, and I'm sure all of them were told at some point or another that they shouldn't count on it).
 
JaggerPlate said:
Here's the thing, in my opinion as an MS-0 (ie not as gewd as yours):

Yes, of course there are ways the DO degree will hinder you. IE, don't expect to attend a DO school, work real hard, and land an ACGME integrated plastics residency. BUT, in the same vein, don't count on barely squeaking into your state MD school, get average stats and waltz into an integrated plastics residency. People tend to think of the MD as the end all, but this just isn't true. When it comes down to bare bones, it's about you, and don't expect to get anything you haven't earned. In the same sense, be reasonable. However, for 99% of cases (IE get good grades, do g-surg, then AOA PRS fellowship --> same plastic surgeon as the ACGME MD with the perfect USMLE score), you will be able to pull it off.

With all that said too ... don't ever let anybody tell you that you can't do something. In my opinion, should you always be logical and plan accordingly?? Sure. But if you want derm (for example) get out there and do work. Don't let anyone say you can't do it because you're coming from a DO school (to my knowledge, two DOs matched ACGME derm in 09 and god knows how many matched AOA derm as a PGY-2, and I'm sure all of them were told at some point or another that they shouldn't count on it).
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I completely agree with all of this. If there is one thing I learned from changing my major from business to biology and becoming a pre-med, is that all along the way, EVERYONE wants you to fail. Every step of this process, I had ppl telling me "no way you'll be able to get A's in your science courses." Then "No way you'll be able to stay focused and manage a high GPA." Then "you won't be able to take the pressures of studying for the MCAT, and you def won't re-take it again bc you'll prob just quit." You get the point...I have def started taking what everyone says with a grain of salt and I just remain focused on myself and doing the best work possible.
 
Bacchus said:
Its not so clear cut. I would love to think as a DO I will have no limitations in what I can obtain (except those limitations imposed by me). However, this isn't true and won't be true for a while. The DO degree is pervading more and more places each year which is good news for us, but our integration isn't as nearly far-stretched as some would want you to believe. With that said, the degree will not limit you as much as you will limit yourself.
Click to expand...

The question I've been asking myself lately is how much more of an advantage would I have by going to an allopathic school? For example, if you had the chance to go to an allopathic school at $42K/year versus an established osteopathic school at $27K/year, is it worth the extra money? Obviously, $60K is a lot of money over the course of four years. I'm not concerned with obtaining a derm residency or anything like that, but what if I wanted to do a fellowship in cardiology or GI?

I'm an older applicant, so I will have less time to pay off my loans. However, I would take the plunge if I would have more than just an incremental advantage. Of course, I'm assuming that grades, board scores, etc. are where they need to be.

I'd like to get some feedback from current medical students or residents on this issue if possible.
 
DocHomer said:
The question I've been asking myself lately is how much more of an advantage would I have by going to an allopathic school? For example, if you had the chance to go to an allopathic school at $42K/year versus an established osteopathic school at $27K/year, is it worth the extra money? Obviously, $60K is a lot of money over the course of four years. I'm not concerned with obtaining a derm residency or anything like that, but what if I wanted to do a fellowship in cardiology or GI?

I'm an older applicant, so I will have less time to pay off my loans. However, I would take the plunge if I would have more than just an incremental advantage. Of course, I'm assuming that grades, board scores, etc. are where they need to be.

I'd like to get some feedback from current medical students or residents on this issue if possible.
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Im not a medical student yet. But my opinion would be save yourself the money if you can. If you do very well as a DO student you will have opportunities. The MD following your name is not going to make or break you if you don't have the other pieces of the puzzle in order. Best of luck to you tho.
 
DocHomer said:
The question I've been asking myself lately is how much more of an advantage would I have by going to an allopathic school? For example, if you had the chance to go to an allopathic school at $42K/year versus an established osteopathic school at $27K/year, is it worth the extra money? Obviously, $60K is a lot of money over the course of four years. I'm not concerned with obtaining a derm residency or anything like that, but what if I wanted to do a fellowship in cardiology or GI?

I'm an older applicant, so I will have less time to pay off my loans. However, I would take the plunge if I would have more than just an incremental advantage. Of course, I'm assuming that grades, board scores, etc. are where they need to be.

I'd like to get some feedback from current medical students or residents on this issue if possible.
Click to expand...

How to pick a medical school:

1. Cost
2. Location

If you are dead set on doing neurological orthopedifc dermatological plastic reconstructive renal ENT at Mayo then maybe going to a MD school just may give you an edge if you work very very hard vs the DO student who also worked very very hard.

But as stated above, don't expect not to work hard and get what you want at either MD or DO schools. Here is how residency selection works at most places (imo):

1. Hardest Working MD = Hardest Working DO (they won't not choose you because you went to school X, unless they took students from X previously and they all sucked)
2. Harder Working DO
3. Mediocre Working MD

Thus, as you can see 2 > 3.
 
DocHomer said:
The question I've been asking myself lately is how much more of an advantage would I have by going to an allopathic school? For example, if you had the chance to go to an allopathic school at $42K/year versus an established osteopathic school at $27K/year, is it worth the extra money? Obviously, $60K is a lot of money over the course of four years. I'm not concerned with obtaining a derm residency or anything like that, but what if I wanted to do a fellowship in cardiology or GI?

I'm an older applicant, so I will have less time to pay off my loans. However, I would take the plunge if I would have more than just an incremental advantage. Of course, I'm assuming that grades, board scores, etc. are where they need to be.

I'd like to get some feedback from current medical students or residents on this issue if possible.
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IMO, you could safely pick the DO school and get into an IM subspecialty.
 
ChiDO said:
How to pick a medical school:

1. Cost
2. Location

If you are dead set on doing neurological orthopedifc dermatological plastic reconstructive renal ENT at Mayo then maybe going to a MD school just may give you an edge if you work very very hard vs the DO student who also worked very very hard.

But as stated above, don't expect not to work hard and get what you want at either MD or DO schools. Here is how residency selection works at most places (imo):

1. Hardest Working MD = Hardest Working DO (they won't not choose you because you went to school X, unless they took students from X previously and they all sucked)
2. Harder Working DO
3. Mediocre Working MD

Thus, as you can see 2 > 3.
Click to expand...

That's what I was going to do at first, but I decided against it. I didn't sense that "calling".

Thanks for your input. That's the way I see it as well, but I've had some physicians tell me otherwise. They were older, so I wasn't sure if it's just the personal bias of the old school crowd. That's why I wanted to get more input from people who are about to apply for residency or are already in one.

In my mind, it's not worth the extra cost of the allopathic school if I can get a comparable education at a DO school for a lot less money. Plus, I really liked the school.
 
I think the older crowd doesn't realize that its harder to get into any medical school for us than it was for them. So, saying we're not the right caliber of student is saying they shouldn't be docs either (or atleast not have made it into medical school).
 
Bacchus said:
IMO, you could safely pick the DO school and get into an IM subspecialty.
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I'd say this is relatively accurate, if you work hard enough. Remember that 90%+ of success in medical school, or any professional academic environment, is a product of work ethic and intelligence.

If two identical applicants, one MD and one DO apply to an allo spot, you're probably going to be at a disadvantage. However, it appears that this increasingly becoming the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself. You can definitely do GI or Cardiology, you just may have to work marginally harder.
 
ChiDO said:
If you are dead set on doing neurological orthopedifc dermatological plastic reconstructive renal ENT at Mayo then maybe going to a MD school just may give you an edge
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st2205 said:
The University of Phoenix COM is ranked within the top three of all the big five ranking lists.
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UPCOM is the only school that consistently places its graduates into allopathic pediatric in-vitro fertilization residencies.
 
Bacchus said:
I think the older crowd doesn't realize that its harder to get into any medical school for us than it was for them. So, saying we're not the right caliber of student is saying they shouldn't be docs either (or atleast not have made it into medical school).
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They don't, and I mean no disrespect by it. Every doc I've talked to about my application is blown away at what you have to go through and they all say they wouldn't have done it/got in now a days.
 
Rankings are inherently flawed. What is a great fit for me, NSU-COM may be a poor fit for someone else. Fit, not ranking is what is most important any US DO school will give you the ability to take the COMLEX. NSU-COM has a strong match list, great alumni network, excellent clinical training and great weather. The best medical school is the one that graduates you. If I were to rank I'd give credence to A) Match list B) Cost C) Location D) Academics E) Research (if it's an interest) F) Special programs (Rural or Urban Track, PhD/MSTP, JD, MPH) G) Academic Style (PBL or traditional lectures). NSU-COM was the best for me.
 
If you want to go to a school so you can say. "I go to XCOM" then that is an unrealistic and shallow reason for picking a school. Go to a school where you learn best. Go to a school in a region that you want to practice. Go to a school that has great preceptors that will give you great recs for residency. In the end; name dropping a school will only get you %10 of the way and the other %90 is: 1) kissing butt 2) working hard in the first two years 3) doing well on boards and 4) not being a complete tool. I also find it funny that some people rank schools and they are a) not in med school or b) never have seen or learned at that school. I've had friends that have "held out" for what they regarded as "well respected schools." In short, they are still waiting and I'm already well into my medical career. Being humble in application will take you long ways. Good luck
 
FutureCTDoc said:
Rankings are inherently flawed. What is a great fit for me, NSU-COM may be a poor fit for someone else. Fit, not ranking is what is most important any US DO school will give you the ability to take the COMLEX. NSU-COM has a strong match list, great alumni network, excellent clinical training and great weather. The best medical school is the one that graduates you. If I were to rank I'd give credence to A) Match list B) Cost C) Location D) Academics E) Research (if it's an interest) F) Special programs (Rural or Urban Track, PhD/MSTP, JD, MPH) G) Academic Style (PBL or traditional lectures). NSU-COM was the best for me.
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Generally,match list are pretty much useless.
 
reallywornouttopic-COM
 
I would say that KCUMB should be on the top of the list.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::love::love::love::love::love::love:


Full Disclosure: I am a current student.
 
hey all. Something important to remember is that AZCOM is RIGHT BY the MAYO clinic in Arizona. Mayo Clinic, one of the best residencies/medical schools in the world, has a partial bias toward the DO's practicing there. JUST WANTED to let you all know.
 
ChiDO said:
How to pick a medical school:

1. Cost
2. Location

If you are dead set on doing neurological orthopedifc dermatological plastic reconstructive renal ENT at Mayo then maybe going to a MD school just may give you an edge if you work very very hard vs the DO student who also worked very very hard.

But as stated above, don't expect not to work hard and get what you want at either MD or DO schools. Here is how residency selection works at most places (imo):

1. Hardest Working MD = Hardest Working DO (they won't not choose you because you went to school X, unless they took students from X previously and they all sucked)
2. Harder Working DO
3. Mediocre Working MD

Thus, as you can see 2 > 3.
Click to expand...

Some osteopathic medical students have stated on this board that there are some programs will not even interview a DO student or an FMG. What I was wondering was, are these programs just as likely to not interview students of so-called lower-tier MD schools for the simple reason that such schools don't have enough prestige?

I can understand if programs discriminated against FMG's because they don't have an accrediting body overseeing their curriculum and what-not, but DO schools have evolved to the point that there isn't a discernible difference. I mean, it has to be more than the initials behind an applicant's name that causes these residency directors to not consider DO students.

Any info from an OMS would be helpful.
 
DocHomer said:
Some osteopathic medical students have stated on this board that there are some programs will not even interview a DO student or an FMG.
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Yeah, people like to say that, but I haven't seen anyone name a program by name so that tells me it's just rumors. As long as DO's are in residency programs in orthopedic surgery at Shands and anesthesiology at Johns Hopkins, I'm going to assume there's no specialty/program a DO can't get into, assuming stats and LOR's are good.
 
University of Pennsylvania has no DOs in its pediatric residency. Its one of the top programs in the country. Jefferson doesn't look at DOs for family medicine (from a Jefferson graduate) but will consider FMGs. As a PCOM student, this is disheartening considering PCOM is well known in the city.

Its ironic this discussion is going on because I'm having it with some of the other moderators right now.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Yeah, people like to say that, but I haven't seen anyone name a program by name so that tells me it's just rumors. As long as DO's are in residency programs in orthopedic surgery at Shands and anesthesiology at Johns Hopkins, I'm going to assume there's no specialty/program a DO can't get into, assuming stats and LOR's are good.
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I've heard some specific names from people in residency who know the PD, etc. They can honestly say that their hospital has never interviewed and/or accepted a DO. However, from what I can tell, these are definitely the exceptions and not the rules. Also, in support of your point, so many of the "prestigious" academic centers have taken DOs many times in the past. Thus, this isn't an issue that most DO students worry too much about.

But I've certainly heard of specific residency programs not accepting DOs, and I personally know of a few fellowship programs that don't either. I really can't name them for anonymity's sake, but they're not "rumors," at least for me. Of course I may not have convinced you, because I may just be one more dude saying something you've heard many times before. But even with firsthand knowledge, I spend about zero time worrying about this.
 
But the question is, have they ever had a DO they liked who they didn't interview/accept BECAUSE the person was a DO. In other words, if everything else was there, was it solely the letters that kept them from taking the person? That's an important part of the equation since there are so few DO's compared to MD's, so of course some MD programs have never accepted a DO before. It could just be that none of the DO's who applied measured up. That doesn't mean the program wouldn't pick a DO with outstanding stats in the future.

I heard the DO who got the ortho spot at Shands last year was the first DO to get Shands ortho. That doesn't mean that Shands was biased against DO's until last year. It just means they never had a DO applicant who blew them away like they did last year.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
But the question is, have they ever had a DO they liked who they didn't interview/accept BECAUSE the person was a DO. In other words, if everything else was there, was it solely the letters that kept them from taking the person? That's an important part of the equation since there are so few DO's compared to MD's, so of course some MD programs have never accepted a DO before. It could just be that none of the DO's who applied measured up. That doesn't mean the program wouldn't pick a DO with outstanding stats in the future.

I heard the DO who got the ortho spot at Shands last year was the first DO to get Shands ortho. That doesn't mean that Shands was biased against DO's until last year. It just means they never had a DO applicant who blew them away like they did last year.
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With my above post, I would like to add that these institutions do have DOs on staff, just not in these departments.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
But the question is, have they ever had a DO they liked who they didn't interview/accept BECAUSE the person was a DO. In other words, if everything else was there, was it solely the letters that kept them from taking the person? That's an important part of the equation since there are so few DO's compared to MD's, so of course some MD programs have never accepted a DO before. It could just be that none of the DO's who applied measured up. That doesn't mean the program wouldn't pick a DO with outstanding stats in the future.

I heard the DO who got the ortho spot at Shands last year was the first DO to get Shands ortho. That doesn't mean that Shands was biased against DO's until last year. It just means they never had a DO applicant who blew them away like they did last year.
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Yeah, there are plenty of potential reasons. One is what you describe. Another is that there is a bias. Another is that it's a combination of bias + applicants, meaning that a DO app would need a lot to stand out against the outstanding MD apps.

I can't answer any of these questions except for with respect to *ONE* particular fellowship in a competitive field that I know. They wouldn't interview a DO.
 
Bacchus said:
University of Pennsylvania has no DOs in its pediatric residency. Its one of the top programs in the country. Jefferson doesn't look at DOs for family medicine (from a Jefferson graduate) but will consider FMGs. As a PCOM student, this is disheartening considering PCOM is well known in the city.

Its ironic this discussion is going on because I'm having it with some of the other moderators right now.
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Well, the University of Pennsylvania does not have a pediatric residency, CHOP (next door) does.

And I have met DOs who were former chief residents from CHOP. I've also met DO pediatric specialists who did their fellowship at CHOP. There was a DO SDN member a few years ago who was a resident at CHOP (probably a fellow or attending somewhere now).

However, there are no current DO residents at CHOP. But CHOP is a competitive program and many competitve applicants apply every year. Also, they require USMLE step 1 and step 2 before they grant interviews (which eliminates a lot of DO applicants who do not plan to take USMLE Step 2)
 
And there's another possibility -- tit for tat. When DO's start letting MD's do residency in their programs, those few MD hold-outs might allow DO's in.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
And there's another possibility -- tit for tat. When DO's start letting MD's do residency in their programs, those few MD hold-outs might allow DO's in.
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ehhhh...I don't think a snobby PD or aloof department that doesn't interview DO's would give a rats a** about that. They would probably see osteopathic residencies as inferior anyways (true or not). There are some residency programs that are just biased, its the way it is (especially in surgery). The number has declined over the years without a doubt, but our dean (an accomplished surgeon - FACS/FACOS) got off on a tangent one day about how a number of ACGME surgery residencies are still quite partial to MD's.
 
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