Yadster101

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I know this site is made up of lowly med students but even with that there's some degree of respect and admiration we get from the public. When you tell ppl you're a med student they often act impressed and treat you slightly differently. My question is, what keeps you guys from becoming arrogant?

I think this is especially important for physicians in highly competitive fields. Being a vascular surgeon, ENT, Optho, ortho, etc is no doubt impressive. But often times this leads us to put these people on a pedestal which leads us to go to them for advice on topics in which they have no expertise simply because their career requires intelligence. This can even become dangerous as we start to rely on these people to make great decisions. Case in point is Ben Carson who is an incredibly successful neurosurgeon but seems to know less about politics than an undergrad poli sci major at a third rate school.

So the question is two fold. Is becoming arrogant a problem for MD/DO students? If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?
 

SurfingDoctor

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Being a vascular surgeon, ENT, Optho, ortho, etc is no doubt impressive. But often times this leads us to put these people on a pedestal which leads us to go to them for advice on topics in which they have no expertise simply because their career requires intelligence. This can even become dangerous as we start to rely on these people to make great decisions.
Are you using the editorial "we" and "us"?

If you put people on a pedestal, I recommend getting some stilts.
 
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croak

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Humility ought be strived for. You earned the privilege to become a physician, respect that in itself, and let that flow authentically in your practice.
 
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cripplepundit

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Case in point is Ben Carson who is an incredibly successful neurosurgeon but seems to know less about politics than an undergrad poli sci major at a third rate school.
You seriously overestimate the intelligence of typical poli-sci undergrads...

Before I do anything, I ask myself "would an arrogant person do that?" If the answer is yes, I do not do that thing.

dwightschrute.jpg

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zeppelinpage4

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For each moment I get praise from a family member or someone outside of medicine...there's probable about a hundred more where I feel like an incompetent fool...that tends to keep me in my place haha.
This can honestly be one of the most humbling experiences...at least while you're training and learning the ropes. If anything, I often have trouble with keeping confident and believing in myself.
 

OnePunchBiopsy

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So the question is two fold. Is becoming arrogant a problem for MD/DO students? If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?
Being arrogant in any position (student, nurse, technician, resident, attending) is viewed as a problem. I don't think arrogance is unique to MD/DO students, it is just a side product that some have with their personalities. Being confident in your work and knowledge is vital to being a great physician. While some students are bonafide arrogant, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Many people confuse the two, or cross the line by the way they say things without meaning to be arrogant.

IMO, unless leadership in the whole workplace is arrogant, most arrogant people isolate themselves with their behavior. They may not match for residency, or get selected to be an attending. Their words and actions are not taken as seriously by their less-arrogant colleagues, therefore I believe their arrogance would be more detrimental to THEMSELVES than society.

If you want to read about how to spot/prevent/deal with arrogance in the workplace, I recommend the book "The No A$$hole Rule." It is a gem that really helped me in med school.
 

Mansamusa

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What are you talking about?

Haha, people think physicians are smart, but no one believes that a physician is an expert on everything. When people talk about Ben Carson and say, "I thought doctors are supposed to be smart" they are being facetious. They don't expect all physicians to be political experts.

Arrogant people are going to be arrogant no matter what field they go into. You don't become arrogant by getting a MD/DO. You can see that in the fact that there are many arrogant paramedics, a ton of arrogant nurses/NPs, a lot of arrogant people in literally every field no matter the education needed to get to that point.

"If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?" What does that mean? Do you mean, are physicians about to start ruling society? Do you think physicians are going, "hey, I can do surgery, so I should be the one building the LHC and I should also be in charge of the department of education?"
 
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Honestly, more often than not when it comes up that I am a medical student I get responses like, "Oh, so what kind of program is that?" or "What kind of job do you want to do with that?" and really, I prefer this. A lot of people somehow don't make the connection between med school = someday doctor, and I am comfortable with that. I'm sorry if you get a lot of pressure and perceived arrogance when you say you're a med student. That would be tough. Your question about whether or not arrogance is becoming a problem for med students is another one, that is to say, does the arrogance come from the inside and not the outside? To that end, I wish med students as a whole would take a deep collective breath and stop taking ourselves so seriously. I'm guilty of it, too. We're people pursuing a certain field of study. The study should be taken seriously. But we're not traipsing about on a higher plane of existence, here. If you're worried about arrogance, you are probably not among the offenders.
 

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Being arrogant in any position (student, nurse, technician, resident, attending) is viewed as a problem. I don't think arrogance is unique to MD/DO students, it is just a side product that some have with their personalities. Being confident in your work and knowledge is vital to being a great physician. While some students are bonafide arrogant, there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Many people confuse the two, or cross the line by the way they say things without meaning to be arrogant.

IMO, unless leadership in the whole workplace is arrogant, most arrogant people isolate themselves with their behavior. They may not match for residency, or get selected to be an attending. Their words and actions are not taken as seriously by their less-arrogant colleagues, therefore I believe their arrogance would be more detrimental to THEMSELVES than society.

If you want to read about how to spot/prevent/deal with arrogance in the workplace, I recommend the book "The No A$$hole Rule." It is a gem that really helped me in med school.
Let me know if these statements still stand after your surgery rotation if you haven't done it yet...
 
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OnePunchBiopsy

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Let me know if these statements still stand after your surgical rotation if you haven't done it yet...
I'm a 4th year pursuing gen surg in the middle of a surgery sub-I. This is just my perspective and it still stands. If the leadership of an institution is malignantly tainted, it drips down to everyone else and arrogance is left unchecked. If there is only one arrogant a$$hole, no one even wants to sit with them in the cafeteria during lunch.
 

Crayola227

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I know this site is made up of lowly med students but even with that there's some degree of respect and admiration we get from the public. When you tell ppl you're a med student they often act impressed and treat you slightly differently. My question is, what keeps you guys from becoming arrogant?

I think this is especially important for physicians in highly competitive fields. Being a vascular surgeon, ENT, Optho, ortho, etc is no doubt impressive. But often times this leads us to put these people on a pedestal which leads us to go to them for advice on topics in which they have no expertise simply because their career requires intelligence. This can even become dangerous as we start to rely on these people to make great decisions. Case in point is Ben Carson who is an incredibly successful neurosurgeon but seems to know less about politics than an undergrad poli sci major at a third rate school.

So the question is two fold. Is becoming arrogant a problem for MD/DO students? If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?
I somehow find this post very arrogant for assuming that arrogance accompanies the MD/DO degree.
 

Crayola227

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Also, the entire medical culture is quite hierarchical, and I frequently feel that the "arrogance" and "confidence" you see actually comes from a VERY deep well of insecurity, and is a cover for "imposter syndrome," which most of us, who are not sociopaths (yes some make it to med school) feel at some point or another.

One side effect of this hierarchy, is that everyone lower in it, is frequently humiliated and shamed.

You will almost never be as arrogant as you were at matriculation. They will systematically beat the it right out of you!!!!
It's literally an informal yet integral part of the very process of training.

Still, as anywhere in life, there will be arrogant assholes no matter what, even with the frequent intellectual beatdowns we get that leave us feeling more humbled, incompetent, and stupid than we have ever felt in our lives. For most of us, getting the MD/DO takes us to the very limit of our intellectual capabilities, and it doesn't stop at graduation.

But to think there's more true arrogance in medicine, is a fallacy, because so much of it is an act.
The ones who are truly arrogant are the ones to fear, because not recognizing your limits in medicine is very dangerous. Yet another reason that we humble one another on a daily basis.

You can be simultaneously humbled and toughened up. In hindsight I appreciate this, but I think sometimes it goes too far for some of the more delicate and well meaning souls, and crushes them.

Now, I am speaking at the level of an intern. Your question was directed at students, and I gave my perspective looking back.

The more I learn, the more that I feel that this humility continues in attendings as well. I hear over and over how the first few years of attending-hood are terrifying, because there is no safety net and the buck stops with you. Also, you have no one to blame for your mistakes, and you will make some, and if you are good, as I think many of us are, you will know what they are. That is humbling to live with. Doc after doc tell me how in a full day hundreds of micro-decisions, it'll be that one mistake that keeps you up at night, and can continue to haunt you well beyond that. Even if there isn't a bad outcome. Even if no one but you ever knows.

I think you are describing either true outliers of arrogance, the true confidence that docs can justify having through their intense training, or the false confidence we still must display for the sake of the patient's comfort.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just me, that has never found any experience more deeply humbling than the career experience I've had so far.
 
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lymphocyte

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I know this site is made up of lowly med students but even with that there's some degree of respect and admiration we get from the public. When you tell ppl you're a med student they often act impressed and treat you slightly differently. My question is, what keeps you guys from becoming arrogant?

I think this is especially important for physicians in highly competitive fields. Being a vascular surgeon, ENT, Optho, ortho, etc is no doubt impressive. But often times this leads us to put these people on a pedestal which leads us to go to them for advice on topics in which they have no expertise simply because their career requires intelligence. This can even become dangerous as we start to rely on these people to make great decisions. Case in point is Ben Carson who is an incredibly successful neurosurgeon but seems to know less about politics than an undergrad poli sci major at a third rate school.

So the question is two fold. Is becoming arrogant a problem for MD/DO students? If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?
You say SDN is made up of "lowly med students" (not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or a somewhat obnoxious token of false modesty), when in fact it's made up of lots of regular medical students, some insanely accomplished med students, residents, attendings, professors, whatever--all of whom offer opinions that may or may not be very good and need to be judged on their own merits.

You say people often "act impressed"--not my experience at all. They often don't care, sometimes feel a little intimidated, make lots of unmerited assumptions about me, and occasionally seem entitled to share their opinion (or ask my opinion) about stuff that's really no stranger's business.

You say people "rely on doctors [like Ben Carson] to make great decisions." Sort of. Ben Carson is a vocally religious hard-working neurosurgeon who has a compelling life story--that combination really appeals to some (kinda like Tim Tebow speaking at the RNC this year). But in the end, the only great decisions that people relied on Ben Carson to make were the decisions for which he had been exceptionally well-suited: the neurosurgical ones.

And then there's your comment about a political science major at a third rate school. First, political science is not the same as public policy, international relations, economics, political philosophy, or law (though it may entail those things)--it's mainly the analysis of political activity and political behaviour. Whatever. Second, lots of idiots graduate from "first rate schools." How does what school you go to determine the merit of your opinions?

Anyways. Most medical students are fine people. Just like most people are fine people. Still, too many medical students are an entitled and pampered bunch, and too few recognise the outrageous amount of stupid luck it takes to become a doctor (starting with where you were born, how your parents treated you, what health issues you were gifted with, where you went to yadda yadda yadda). But this isn't something that develops in medical school. Becoming arrogant is not the problem. Being arrogant is the problem, because arrogance flourishes in the medical context, both as a result of where doctors sit in the medical hierarchy (surprisingly not very high, though high enough to facilitate arrogant behaviour) and the dehumanising burden medical training places on students. And I don't think it's a problem for society (a hearty LOL at the idea most people care about what doctors think, especially some rando ENT--I would wager that most people don't even know what that is; many think a neurologist is just the same as a neurosurgeon, and don't ophthalmologists sell sunglasses?). I think arrogance is a problem for some miserable doctors and the unfortunate people that have to deal with them.

Being arrogant means to have an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. But being arrogant is often a symptom of another, more basic problem: an inability to distinguish wish, fantasy, and idealisation from reality. And when fantasy and reality collide... well, misery abounds, usually with lots of anger and defensiveness directed at all the wrong people. What's the antidote? I think time, introspection, care for others, and a lots of ego crushing exposure to the real world will cure any exaggerated sense of of yourself... Unless you remain defensive and angry and just use things as an excuse to be miserable to the people around you. (We *all* know attendings like this.)

And so much yes to all of the comments above.
 
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Crayola227

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You say SDN is made up of "lowly med students" (a somewhat obnoxious token of false modesty), when in fact it's made up of lots of regular medical students, insanely accomplished med students (and audiologists and psychologists and dentists and social workers--but they don't matter, right?), residents, attendings, professors, whatever--all of them offering opinions that may or may not be very good and need to be judged on their own merits.

You say people often "act impressed"--not my experience at all. They often feel a little intimidated, make lots of unmerited assumptions about me, and sometimes seem entitled to share their opinion (or ask my opinion) about stuff that's really no stranger's business.

You say people "rely on doctors [like Ben Carson] to make great decisions." Sort of. Ben Carson is a hard-working neurosurgeon who has a compelling life story and vocally religious disposition--that appeals to some (kinda like Tim Tebow speaking at the RNC this year). But in the end, the only great decisions that people relied on Ben Carson to make were the decisions for which he had been exceptionally well-suited: the neurosurgical ones.

And then there's your comment about a political science major at a third rate school. First, political science is not the same as public policy, international relations, economics, political philosophy, or law (though it may entail those things)--it's mainly the analysis of political activity and political behaviour. Second, lots of idiots graduate from "first rate schools." How does what school you go to determine the merit of your opinions?

Anyways. Most medical students are fine people. Just like most people are fine people. Still, too many medical students are an entitled and pampered bunch, and too few recognise the outrageous amount of stupid luck it takes to become a doctor (starting with where you were born, how your parents treated you, what health issues you were gifted with, where you went to yadda yadda yadda). But this isn't something that develops in medical school. Becoming arrogant is not the problem. Being arrogant is the problem, because arrogance flourishes in the medical context, both as a result of where doctors sit in the medical hierarchy (surprisingly not very high) and the dehumanising burden medical training places on students. And I don't think it's a problem for society (a hearty LOL at the idea most people care about what doctors think, especially some rando ENT--I would wager that most people don't even know what that is; many think a neurologist is just the same as a neurosurgeon, don't ophthalmologists sell sunglasses? and what are these sugar pills for again?). I think arrogance is a problem for some miserable doctors and the unfortunate people that have to deal with them.

Being arrogant means to have an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. But being arrogant is often a symptom of another, more basic problem: an inability to distinguish wish, fantasy, and idealisation from reality. And when fantasy and reality collide... well, misery abounds, usually with lots of anger and defensiveness directed at all the wrong people. What's the antidote? I think time, introspection, and a lot of open-hearted exposure to the real world will cure any exaggerated sense of anything (unless you remain defensive and angry).



This is so true on so many levels.
I would only disagree with you in that I find both experiences true - people are often impressed, but they often like to tell me how evil my profession is as well. It's a mixed bag of dicks. As they say, a lot of time people will either love you or hate you. That's life. Even those that find my profession to be evil, seem to recognize that the MD does represent a lot of smarts and hard work. So I'm grateful for that badge of merit at least. I might be practicing the dark arts, but at least I'm smart and hardworking at it!! Otherwise, mixed bag of dicks.

The truth is *I* was more impressed with myself and people's reactions when I was in med school than I am now.

Now I feel like a lowly worm being ground under the shoe of the modern medical establishment.
 

lymphocyte

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As they say, a lot of time people will either love you or hate you. That's life.
Actually, a lot of time, people neither love you nor hate you. They just don't care. For 99.99999999999%+ of the world, you or I simply don't matter and never will. That sounds way harsh, but it's true. And I never thought most people were actually impressed. Maybe just being polite or awkwardly coping with their own feelings (hence the follow-up about how evil the profession is).

No doubt earning a MD (or PhD or DO) is an incredible academic achievement. It takes tremendous discipline, grit, and drive. Most people take it as a sign that one is probably intelligent and hardworking. But like any academic achievement... the proof is in the pudding, and most people simply don't care until it's you that's their doctor, and then they might care about all the "wrong" things, like how rude the receptionist was or how rushed you seemed.

The most I can hope from life is that the people I care about (family and friends) are impressed by how I treat them--not any titles or past achievements. Whatever else is just cherries or not even. My drive for medicine is to do a damn good job regardless. Why? Because it's my vocation, and patients trust us to do right by them. (Oh, I'd also like adequate remuneration. That part is important too.)
 
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caseyjones

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This site is infested with arrogance, and definitely perpetuates it in the demographic who frequents it. Physicians serve patients, and anything that contradicts this is really just chest thumping. This isn't 1970, the golden age of medicine is over. Dr. Stewart was wrong, turns out we didn't win the war on infectious disease. Your vocation is one of sacrifice, and while you probably have earned respect, it's disingenuous to seek it out.
 

lymphocyte

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This site is infested with arrogance, and definitely perpetuates it in the demographic who frequents it. Physicians serve patients, and anything that contradicts this is really just chest thumping. This isn't 1970, the golden age of medicine is over. Dr. Stewart was wrong, turns out we didn't win the war on infectious disease. Your vocation is one of sacrifice, and while you probably have earned respect, it's disingenuous to seek it out.
Physicians certainly serve patients, and service is the core of medical practice, but medicine is much more than just sacrifice. Hence what I wrote about remuneration. Physicians feel strongly about it for a good reason. If only to keep some semblance of balance. In fact, to say "physicians serve patients, and anything that contradicts this is really just chest thumping" is probably a bit of chest thumping. Nobody's a saint, or at least nobody should be asked to be one. People are people; doctors included.

I also have to say I've met a lot of really nice people here, genuinely supportive, and some have become friends IRL.
 
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markrivers

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You say SDN is made up of "lowly med students" (not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek or a somewhat obnoxious token of false modesty), when in fact it's made up of lots of regular medical students, some insanely accomplished med students, residents, attendings, professors, whatever--all of whom offer opinions that may or may not be very good and need to be judged on their own merits.

You say people often "act impressed"--not my experience at all. They often don't care, sometimes feel a little intimidated, make lots of unmerited assumptions about me, and occasionally seem entitled to share their opinion (or ask my opinion) about stuff that's really no stranger's business.

You say people "rely on doctors [like Ben Carson] to make great decisions." Sort of. Ben Carson is a hard-working neurosurgeon, vocally religious, and has a compelling life story--that appeals to some (kinda like Tim Tebow speaking at the RNC this year). But in the end, the only great decisions that people relied on Ben Carson to make were the decisions for which he had been exceptionally well-suited: the neurosurgical ones.

And then there's your comment about a political science major at a third rate school. First, political science is not the same as public policy, international relations, economics, political philosophy, or law (though it may entail those things)--it's mainly the analysis of political activity and political behaviour. Whatever. Second, lots of idiots graduate from "first rate schools." How does what school you go to determine the merit of your opinions?

Anyways. Most medical students are fine people. Just like most people are fine people. Still, too many medical students are an entitled and pampered bunch, and too few recognise the outrageous amount of stupid luck it takes to become a doctor (starting with where you were born, how your parents treated you, what health issues you were gifted with, where you went to yadda yadda yadda). But this isn't something that develops in medical school. Becoming arrogant is not the problem. Being arrogant is the problem, because arrogance flourishes in the medical context, both as a result of where doctors sit in the medical hierarchy (surprisingly not very high, though high enough to facilitate arrogant behaviour) and the dehumanising burden medical training places on students. And I don't think it's a problem for society (a hearty LOL at the idea most people care about what doctors think, especially some rando ENT--I would wager that most people don't even know what that is; many think a neurologist is just the same as a neurosurgeon, and don't ophthalmologists sell sunglasses?). I think arrogance is a problem for some miserable doctors and the unfortunate people that have to deal with them.

Being arrogant means to have an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. But being arrogant is often a symptom of another, more basic problem: an inability to distinguish wish, fantasy, and idealisation from reality. And when fantasy and reality collide... well, misery abounds, usually with lots of anger and defensiveness directed at all the wrong people. What's the antidote? I think time, introspection, care for others, and a lots of ego crushing exposure to the real world will cure any exaggerated sense of anything... Unless you remain defensive and angry and just use it as an excuse to be miserable to the people around you. (We *all* know attendings like this.)

And so much yes to all of the comments above.
Faculty attestation:

i have discussed the case with the resident physician and agrees with his management.

Mark Greene, MD
 
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You'll soon find out that the only people who are really impressed with your being a doctor are those that don't really matter (in terms of your career). At least that's been my experience.
 
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Yadster101

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You seriously overestimate the intelligence of typical poli-sci undergrads...

Before I do anything, I ask myself "would an arrogant person do that?" If the answer is yes, I do not do that thing.

dwightschrute.jpg

/thread

idk man I think ppl like Dwight are the type of ppl that put doctors on a pedestal. after all he did say,

Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.
 

Stagg737

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idk man I think ppl like Dwight are the type of ppl that put doctors on a pedestal. after all he did say,

Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food. I can drive a taxi. I can, and do, cut my own hair. I did however, tip my urologist, because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.
Imo that's even more reason to tip the person. Since the action is something you could do yourself, you're paying them for the convenience. It's also why most tipped positions are paid crap while things you "can't do yourself" typically make a decent wage.
 
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Ho0v-man

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I'm way too smart and good looking to ever let myself become arrogant.


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Syncrohnize

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I know this site is made up of lowly med students but even with that there's some degree of respect and admiration we get from the public. When you tell ppl you're a med student they often act impressed and treat you slightly differently. My question is, what keeps you guys from becoming arrogant?

I think this is especially important for physicians in highly competitive fields. Being a vascular surgeon, ENT, Optho, ortho, etc is no doubt impressive. But often times this leads us to put these people on a pedestal which leads us to go to them for advice on topics in which they have no expertise simply because their career requires intelligence. This can even become dangerous as we start to rely on these people to make great decisions. Case in point is Ben Carson who is an incredibly successful neurosurgeon but seems to know less about politics than an undergrad poli sci major at a third rate school.

So the question is two fold. Is becoming arrogant a problem for MD/DO students? If they allow this arrogance to grow can it be detrimental to society?
Not sure where you are in training but I hear you get belittled enough to the point where you don't really have any cockiness left in you if there was any. Also, being in the lower 50% of your class probably gets 50% of students off their high horse.
 

ndafife

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Any time I feel a little too confident, I just remember I need to pay people to do very basic auto maintenance and my basic understanding of tech support is to restart my router
 
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I don't feel arrogant because all the nurses and PAs who are my age and know way more than I do right now remind me of how far I have to go to be competent and taken seriously.
 

markrivers

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there is a chain of command, like any other organization.
(YOU) order and sign.
they ( RN,LVN,PT, etc) are required to follow that even if you only graduated from med school a few months ago.

so, there really is no need for arrogance.
unless you enjoy getting a page at 3AM for a BP of 141/80mmHg or a HR of 59bpm in an otherwise healthy patient
 

ActinicKeratosis

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An arrogant medical student will be absolutely destroyed via evaluations during third year. Unfortunately some residents/attending physicians can get away with it.
 

omn

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Are you using the editorial "we" and "us"?

If you put people on a pedestal, I recommend getting some stilts.
As "we" all know, "POLI SCI" is, in part, a study in heirarchy...

Curiously, trying to read between the lines here, your point not only implies that physicians aren't people who believe in hierarchy, but rather even further that it might be improper in a universalizable "kind of way"....

The point had something to do with a group's appreciation, or lack thereof, of (can we say)
accomplishment and with how far and in what manner one's accomplishment can spread and be applied to a field like democratic governance?

It's a good question and it shows insight.


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If you want to be humbled, just become a psychiatrist and all that respect goes away (for better or for worse).
 

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I don't think that becoming a physician has really changed who I am as a person too much. I started out not really caring too much about what other people thought of me. Now that I get to hear people tell me their problems all day, I'm even less inclined to care too much about what they think of me....Not to mention that since I'm female, they think I'm a nurse half the time anyway. :eyebrow:
 
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Feb 11, 2015
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Great thread and discussion. MD/DO doesn't make you arrogant imo, it has more to do with individual personalities
 

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Great thread and discussion. MD/DO doesn't make you arrogant imo, it has more to do with individual personalities
Does a DO really make you arrogant though? I feel like the fact that some people don't view it as a "real" degree would be pretty humbling (and infuriating).
 
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Does a DO really make you arrogant though? I feel like the fact that some people don't view it as a "real" degree would be pretty humbling (and infuriating).
MD and DO are virtually indistinguishable, completely equivalent degrees. Difference is basically historical. I have never met a person in my life that thinks DO isn't a real degree, that is a hilarious notion. Hearing that wouldn't be humbling or infuriating, it would be very funny and reveal ignorance on part of the sayer
 

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MD and DO are virtually indistinguishable, completely equivalent degrees. Difference is basically historical. I have never met a person in my life that thinks DO isn't a real degree, that is a hilarious notion. Hearing that wouldn't be humbling or infuriating, it would be very funny and reveal ignorance on part of the sayer
I know plenty of people who either have no idea what a DO is (and thus don't view them as real doctors) or refuse to be seen by DO's. Then again, I'm in California, which is probably one the worst places in terms of DO discrimination. Out in Michigan or Oklahoma I'm sure it's a lot different.
 
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I know plenty of people who either have no idea what a DO is (and thus don't view them as real doctors) or refuse to be seen by DO's. Then again, I'm in California, which is probably one the worst places in terms of DO discrimination. Out in Michigan or Oklahoma I'm sure it's a lot different.
I have heard California to be known as the opposite as you describe. Beverly Hills mom falsely believe DOs are better and don't over prescribe. Each persons experience is subjective. Both experiences we are describing are ignorance of people.

Cedars Sinai, USC, UCI, UCSF all take DOs across different residency programs yearly. Don't know how California is worst place for discrimination. This isn't the 1950s, there isn't a worst place for discrimination anymore except in minds of people who have no idea what they are talking about
 

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I have heard California to be known as the opposite as you describe. Beverly Hills mom falsely believe DOs are better and don't over prescribe. Each persons experience is subjective. Both experiences we are describing are ignorance of people.

Cedars Sinai, USC, UCI, UCSF all take DOs across different residency programs yearly. Don't know how California is worst place for discrimination. This isn't the 1950s, there isn't a worst place for discrimination anymore except in minds of people who have no idea what they are talking about
Look man, I'm just telling you how I see it. My perception could be totally wrong. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
 

Rekt

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Look man, I'm just telling you how I see it. My perception could be totally wrong. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Both sides of the coin exist, that's why. There's plenty of plenty who buy into our holistic bull**** that doesn't even mean anything or that our magical wizardry OMM saved their lives and there's the others who believe we're vastly inferior to MDs. In the end it doesn't really matter. If I'm in EM/Hospitalist/Urgent Care/Intensivist/Radiologist, etc, you don't even get to pick, as for clinic DOs, fine there's other patient's we can see.
 
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Both sides of the coin exist, that's why. There's plenty of plenty who buy into our holistic bull**** that doesn't even mean anything or that our magical wizardry OMM saved their lives and there's the others who believe we're vastly inferior to MDs. In the end it doesn't really matter. If I'm in EM/Hospitalist/Urgent Care/Intensivist/Radiologist, etc, you don't even get to pick, as for clinic DOs, fine there's other patient's we can see.
I agree 100%
 
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If you want to be humbled, just become a psychiatrist and all that respect goes away (for better or for worse).
Yeah and then you wipe away your tears with the money from your cash-based practice and 40 hours workweeks with limited to no call.

**** respect bro.

I'ma say it like this.

Give me $400,000 a year (just for funsies... let's say we are in a rural area), the ability to connect with people and hopefully give them an ear and helping hand and do something dope for somebody else before I leave this earth, and I could give two ****s less whoever thinks less of me.

Money talks, bull**** walks.

Not to say money is everything, but just like money, there are more things important than other peoples' opinions.

I get what you're saying though. Sad to hear and read though.
 
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