Prior Enlisted - Time in Service

[ninjagaiden9876]

I have been receiving conflicting responses with the following matter.

Promote to: Time in Service Minimum Time in Grade Required by
0-2 18 months 18 months
0-3 4 years 2 years
0-4 10 years 3 years
0-5 16 years 3 years
0-6 22 years 3 years

I am prior enlisted (8 years), thus was wondering when I graduate from medical school I would have 8 years Time in Service for the purposes of Officer promotion or 0?

So a normal HPSP student normally takes about 6 years to promote to O4?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Slevin]

From what I understand you get 8 years of service counted towards your pay but no years of service towards promotion. Also you should have 6 years TIG for promotion to O4

 

[NavyFP]

I have been receiving conflicting responses with the following matter.

Promote to: Time in Service Minimum Time in Grade Required by
0-2 18 months 18 months
0-3 4 years 2 years
0-4 10 years 3 years
0-5 16 years 3 years
0-6 22 years 3 years

I am prior enlisted (8 years), thus was wondering when I graduate from medical school I would have 8 years Time in Service for the purposes of Officer promotion or 0?

So a normal HPSP student normally takes about 6 years to promote to O4?

Enlisted time does not count towards officer promotions. You will, however, be paid at the O-3E over 8 level.

 

[corpsman33]

I think everybody is mis-reading the OP's question.

I am prior enlisted and may not be as knowledgeable about officer guidelines as some of the seasoned officers on SDN, but I think that I am correct regarding the following:

There are two different time requirements for advancement within the officer community:

1. Time in Service
2. Time in Grade

Normally, "time in service" and "time in grade" are irrelevant for civilians that enter the military with no prior service and they simply must meet the "time in service" requirement (i.e. the longer of the two), however this is not the case for prior enlisted members.

"Time in Service" = total time of active duty service in the military (not rank dependent).
"Time in Grade" = total time in the current pay grade.

**see definitions here: http://www.army-portal.com/pay-promotions/officer-promotions.html#TIS-TIG (I know it is an Army post, but it should be relevant for all branches of service).

Both requirements must be met for advancement to the next grade. Usually the "time in service" requirement is longer than the "time in grade" requirement and can be met by serving in any rank in the military. The "time in grade" can obviously only be met by serving as an officer of that current grade.

See "time in servie" and "time in grade" requirements here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

The OP will also be eligible for O-3 E (with over 8 years of service) which should also help his pay grade.

Hope this helps!

 

[Slevin]

I think everybody is mis-reading the OP's question.

I am prior enlisted and may not be as knowledgeable about officer guidelines as some of the seasoned officers on SDN, but I think that I am correct regarding the following:

There are two different time requirements for advancement within the officer community:

1. Time in Service
2. Time in Grade

Normally, "time in service" and "time in grade" are irrelevant for civilians that enter the military with no prior service and they simply must meet the "time in service" requirement (i.e. the longer of the two), however this is not the case for prior enlisted members.

"Time in Service" = total time of active duty service in the military (not rank dependent).
"Time in Grade" = total time in the current pay grade.

**see definitions here: http://www.army-portal.com/pay-promotions/officer-promotions.html#TIS-TIG (I know it is an Army post, but it should be relevant for all branches of service).

Both requirements must be met for advancement to the next grade. Usually the "time in service" requirement is longer than the "time in grade" requirement and can be met by serving in any rank in the military. The "time in grade" can obviously only be met by serving as an officer of that current grade.

See "time in servie" and "time in grade" requirements here:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

The OP will also be eligible for O-3 E (with over 8 years of service) which should also help his pay grade.

Hope this helps!

So if I read that correctly, you only need 3 years TIS as an O3 to be promotable to an O4?

I'm prior enlisted, I have 4 years AD TIS and 4 years IRR. So that means I need 6 years as an O3 to be promotable to O4, 3 years to make the TIG requirement and an additional 3 years to make the TIS requirement?

Seems odd to me. I've met fellows that just finished fellowship with no prior service who were promoted to O4. So the TIS is questionable to me.

 

[corpsman33]

So if I read that correctly, you only need 3 years TIS as an O3 to be promotable to an O4?

I'm prior enlisted, I have 4 years AD TIS and 4 years IRR. So that means I need 6 years as an O3 to be promotable to O4, 3 years to make the TIG requirement and an additional 3 years to make the TIS requirement?

Seems odd to me. I've met fellows that just finished fellowship with no prior service who were promoted to O4. So the TIS is questionable to me.

No the TIS for advancement to O-4 is 10 years, but the TIG is 3 years.

So for example in my case I have 5 years prior active duty enlisted service + I will have 4 years of med school active duty service (I am HSCP which counts as active duty time). By the time I start intern/residency I will have 9 years TIS so I should only have to complete one more year to make the required "10 years" of TIS. But I will still have to make the "TIG" requirement as well which is three years as an O-3. So after three years of intern/residency I should be eligible for promotion to O-4 (you do not have to add the TIG plus TIS, but you do need to complete both of them).

 

[corpsman33]

So if I read that correctly, you only need 3 years TIS as an O3 to be promotable to an O4?

I'm prior enlisted, I have 4 years AD TIS and 4 years IRR. So that means I need 6 years as an O3 to be promotable to O4, 3 years to make the TIG requirement and an additional 3 years to make the TIS requirement?

Seems odd to me. I've met fellows that just finished fellowship with no prior service who were promoted to O4. So the TIS is questionable to me.

Are you saying they promoted "earlier" then 10 years and so the TIS is questionable?

If so, then maybe they attended USUHS (which counts as active duty). Their med school time, plus residency, plus fellowship should add up to over 10 years.

It is interesting because most other officer communities do not run into this issue, because they begin at O-1 and work their way to O-4 over many years and consequently never have an issue with TIS. But as a physician who begins as an O-3 with no time in service it suddenly becomes an issue.

Maybe I am completely mistaken, and they waive this requirement for physicians in the military (if so somebody please tell me and show me the intstruction), but this is how I have always interpreted the instruction.

 

[ninjagaiden9876]

Are you saying they promoted "earlier" then 10 years and so the TIS is questionable?

If so, then maybe they attended USUHS (which counts as active duty). Their med school time, plus residency, plus fellowship should add up to over 10 years.

It is interesting because most other officer communities do not run into this issue, because they begin at O-1 and work their way to O-4 over many years and consequently never have an issue with TIS. But as a physician who begins as an O-3 with no time in service it suddenly becomes an issue.

Maybe I am completely mistaken, and they waive this requirement for physicians in the military (if so somebody please tell me and show me the intstruction), but this is how I have always interpreted the instruction.

NavyFP is correct.

Time in Service = Time in Commissioned Service.

 

[corpsman33]

NavyFP is correct.

Time in Service = Time in Commissioned Service.

That does not make any sense. If that were the case why does the "time in grade" component even exist?

If it is only a "time in commissioned service" then virtually every single person would automatically have the "time in grade" component by virtue of obtaining the "time in service component".

There wouldn't even be a need to specify a "time in grade" component.

It would also mean that all physicians (not previously commissioned) entering into the military would need to complete 10 years before promoting to O-4, which doesn't seem correct.

Maybe I am missing a big piece of the puzzle here, but where does it say "commissioned time in service"?

 

[corpsman33]

NavyFP is correct.

Time in Service = Time in Commissioned Service.

That being said I respect NavyFP a lot, and he is a wealth of knowledge, but I was just under a different impression (I could very well be wrong).

I just want to see the instruction that outlines "time in service" solely as "commissioned time in service".

I was searching the Navy PERS website and could not find it.

 

[NavyFP]

Let me clear up the confusion.

Forget about the whole time in service/time in rank stuff. It may be in the rules, but it does not matter per se.

What we are talking about here is entry grade credit. Here is the breakdown:

Medical School = 4 years (even if it takes you 5 (or 3))
Masters degrees that someone in charge deigns worthy: up to 2 years
PhDs that someone in charge deigns worthy: up to 3 years
Prior commissioned service: 1 year for every 2 years of prior commissioned service

Add all of that up and then:

4 years = O-3
10 years (O-3 + 6) = O-4

The maximum credit you can get is 14 years (O-4 +4)

Most Medical Corps Officers are promoted every 6 years. So for those with no credit other than medical school will put on O4 six years after med school, O5 six years after that, and O6 six years after that. I have had prior officers enter active duty after medical school as O4s if they had 12 years of commissioned service prior to starting medical school.

Enlisted time does not enter into this equation at all. The only place that it is of benefit is on the pay table. If you have 6 years of enlisted time prior to medical school (or in medical school if you are HSCP), you would get paid at the O3E over 6 level. It is a very nice pay raise over the non-priors.

 

[DrMetal]

Prior commissioned service: 1 year for every 2 years of prior commissioned service

You mean prior commissioned active-duty service right? If you were in a reserve status (even as a "active" drilling reservist), that doesn't count, right?

10 years (O-3 + 6) = O-4

Why +6 ? I thought it was more like + 5.

Most O-3's spend 5 years at that rank (they get selected for O-4 at around the 4 yr mark, then put it on at the 5 yr). Is that not the case in the medical corp too?

 

[NavyFP]

All commissioned time counts. Active, Reserve, and IRR.

Can't speak to the line side, but Navy Medical Corps takes 6 to LCDR. (selected at the 5 year mark) There are rare exceptions of below zone picks, but they are rare.

 

[Slevin]

Are you saying they promoted "earlier" then 10 years and so the TIS is questionable?

If so, then maybe they attended USUHS (which counts as active duty). Their med school time, plus residency, plus fellowship should add up to over 10 years.

It is interesting because most other officer communities do not run into this issue, because they begin at O-1 and work their way to O-4 over many years and consequently never have an issue with TIS. But as a physician who begins as an O-3 with no time in service it suddenly becomes an issue.

Maybe I am completely mistaken, and they waive this requirement for physicians in the military (if so somebody please tell me and show me the intstruction), but this is how I have always interpreted the instruction.

Well, if you count med school then that's 4 years that counts towards promotion because you are technically a commissioned Lt even if the time doesn't count for pay purposes. So yes, I guess it is correct you can finish med school and be a major in 6 years from graduation

 

[dynamicalan]

From what I understand you get 8 years of service counted towards your pay but no years of service towards promotion. Also you should have 6 years TIG for promotion to O4

I think it should be that way the 4 years Enlisted counting towards TIS and TIG because that service is important. Length of time extending with 4 years Gives no pay increase at O-1 if your at the school if your 4 years is counted.

 

[MirrorTodd]

That "E" pay doesn't really count for much as an O3 unless you have more than 14 years in. Then you get an extra hundred dollars a month. I was under the impression than prior enlisted TIS counts for everything. I'll have to double check that now, I was hoping to get promoted around pgy3 or 4...at least prior to graduation.

 

[backrow]

That "E" pay doesn't really count for much as an O3 unless you have more than 14 years in. Then you get an extra hundred dollars a month. I was under the impression than prior enlisted TIS counts for everything. I'll have to double check that now, I was hoping to get promoted around pgy3 or 4...at least prior to graduation.

Prior enlisted time does not count towards officer promotion. Prior officer service is counted towards officer promotion. Prior enlisted time does count towards retirement, but you have to meet certain gates to retire as an officer (I believe it’s 10 years as an officer, but don’t quote me on that)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[MirrorTodd]

Prior enlisted time does not count towards officer promotion. Prior officer service is counted towards officer promotion. Prior enlisted time does count towards retirement, but you have to meet certain gates to retire as an officer (I believe it’s 10 years as an officer, but don’t quote me on that)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

That's fairly easily done for a large majority of people...most programs are at least 4 years long with a standard 4 year pay back, so that's 8 years as an officer...unless you were in the military for 12 years or more prior, you'd be retiring at 20 anyway, so you'd fill up that officer time reaching 20.