Prior Service Marine Officer to USUHS for Navy?

[sdnfid]

Hello everyone. I have been thinking about it, and I think I would like to do military medicine (Navy) for the long haul (20 years needed for retirement). I grew up in a military family and I like the lifetsyle. The Marine Corps is near and dear to my heart, so I would love to be a commissioned Marine at some point in my life. I am three semesters away from finishing all my undergrad coursework (at the point where I need to talk to a Marine officer recruiter if I'm going to do it.

But I would like to go to USUHS after I am finished with a commission in the Marines (for the Navy). I have heard the Navy does not like to take prior service Marines. Any truth to this as far as medicine goes? Would I be screwing myself into a corner by going into the Marines for four years before med school? Do you think USUHS would look upon prior Marine service as a positive or negative? I'm really concerned about this because it means a great deal to me to go into the USMC, but maybe not at the cost of an entire career in Navy medicine.

Thanks so much everybody!

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[Cooperd0g]

There is a prior Marine Corps officer in my class right now. A classmate of mine from the Naval Academy went Marine Corps and is now a USUHS grad and orthopedic surgeon in the Navy. I know that is only two people, but I don't think that USUHS shies away from any prior officer so long as they still meet the academic requirements.

 

[idq1i]

Why in the world would you want to do a line job for 4 years if your goal is to be a physician? Go to medical school, do a residency, and pick an assignment with the Marines after you are done.

 

[sdnfid]

Why in the world would you want to do a line job for 4 years if your goal is to be a physician? Go to medical school, do a residency, and pick an assignment with the Marines after you are done.

Thanks for the response! It's because I want to be a Marine. It's really as simple as that. Lots of Marines in the family, have had my heart set on it for like a decade. Navy Corpsman just isn't quite the same. Like I said, though, not sure if it's worth giving up a career in Navy medicine if its difficult to get the Navy to take prior service marines. That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

 

[sdnfid]

There is a prior Marine Corps officer in my class right now. A classmate of mine from the Naval Academy went Marine Corps and is now a USUHS grad and orthopedic surgeon in the Navy. I know that is only two people, but I don't think that USUHS shies away from any prior officer so long as they still meet the academic requirements.

Ok cool good info thanks!

 

[pgg]

Bottom line, you should absolutely spend a few years as a Marine officer if you want to be a Marine. You can't do that later, so do it now.

IMO the best way to think of USUHS is as a US allopathic medical school that happens to have some ties to the military. The admissions committee looks favorably upon people with competitive GPAs and MCAT scores, who are then able to convince (at interview) the school that they will graduate, pass their boards, and make good physicians in the military. That's it.

Time spent as a Marine officer prior to medical school can be good for an application AFTER your numbers have qualified you for an interview, but as the latest dogpile on page 52 of the long-running USUHS thread illustrates, there really is no substitute for GPA and MCAT.

USUHS and the Navy don't discriminate against prior service applicants. They just won't let prior service compensate for poor GPAs and MCAT scores. It can be tough - very tough - for people on active duty to complete undergrad degrees and the med school prerequisites with good grades at a real university, so those individuals may be at a disadvantage when applying. But this is because of weak academic credentials, not a bias against their service. Most of us on this board will advise those people to get out of the military, get the degree/pre-req done full time at a real school, and then apply.

You're a full-time undergrad now so that risk doesn't apply to you. If you decide to put off med school for a while to be a Marine, just make sure your grades NOW are the best they can be. It will be hard as a Marine officer to polish a turd of a GPA/MCAT and no medical school admission committee (USUHS included) will overlook lousy grades because of your honorable service as a Marine.

 

[numberwunn]

Bottom line, you should absolutely spend a few years as a Marine officer if you want to be a Marine. You can't do that later, so do it now.

If you wanna become a Marine, do it - I doubt you'll regret it. I had a blast as a Marine officer. Cannot match the experiences or leadership training. In many ways I think it has made me a better student (more disciplined, focused, better communication skills, more professional, etc) than I would have been otherwise. I wouldn't do it differently.

USUHS and the Navy don't discriminate against prior service applicants. They just won't let prior service compensate for poor GPAs and MCAT scores. It can be tough - very tough - for people on active duty to complete undergrad degrees and the med school prerequisites with good grades at a real university, so those individuals may be at a disadvantage when applying. But this is because of weak academic credentials, not a bias against their service. Most of us on this board will advise those people to get out of the military, get the degree/pre-req done full time at a real school, and then apply.

You're a full-time undergrad now so that risk doesn't apply to you. If you decide to put off med school for a while to be a Marine, just make sure your grades NOW are the best they can be. It will be hard as a Marine officer to polish a turd of a GPA/MCAT and no medical school admission committee (USUHS included) will overlook lousy grades because of your honorable service as a Marine.

This was absolutely my experience (not USUHS, but think it applies). Did all prereqs as undergrad, with mediocre grades. Trying to take the prereqs on active duty would have been a nightmare -- really only possible on a cush shore tour, and I don't know if even then. Taking the MCAT was hard - had to relearn material after several years away in what free time I had (I'll never forget being overseas on training trip, trying to study MCATs while RPG range was going, it felt like right outside the hooch). I know several prior folks who ended up separating to do masters/research before applying. I was able to start med school on the same day as my EAS, but I was very lucky (and had to retake the MCAT and crush it before being accepted off of a wait list).

So - if this is your plan, have prereqs done now with awesome grades. Maybe take MCAT (don't think you could use it for app, but at least you'd have taken it once). Go in realizing that it's a hard path and it likely won't go the way you want (good advice for military in general). And have fun in the quigley at Quantico.

 

[sdnfid]

Great. Thanks! I also heard somewhere that at USUHS prior service people get to keep their same pay level. Pretty cool if thats true

 

[pgg]

Great. Thanks! I also heard somewhere that at USUHS prior service people get to keep their same pay level. Pretty cool if thats true

That is true. It's a relatively recent change (a few years ago?) and it's a huge benefit to prior service people who had significant time/rank.

 

[TheTruckGuy]

I also wanted to be a Marine since I was about 7. I was very close to signing a contract while in ROTC at college (a senior military college), but I also wanted to be a doctor, and unfortunately I decided that I didn't want to be graduating med school in my 30's. Well, I ended up not getting into med school my first application, and then taking another job, getting injured and out of shape, and long story short, I'll be graduating med school in my 30's as a Navy doc. I do have some regrets about not being a Marine, but I'm not unhappy with where I am now.

One thing that I don't like about the Navy medicine is that they don't really put you through leadership development like they do with the line officers or Marine OCS. They just want you to be a doctor. To be fair, most Navy docs just want to be docs and don't want to take on the role of a line officer. I tend to enjoy the high speed stuff a little more.

If you end up joining the Marines before You may also want to look into the HSCP scholarship. You'll get paid a salary and get full benefits of active duty (BAS, BAH, TRICARE), but you'll have to pay for med school out of your salary. BUT, you'll have the GI bill that should pay for your med school (or at least a good chunk of it). There are some other benefits for prior service guys that I'm not fully aware of, but I think it's a good option. It also gives you a little more flexibility should you choose not to stay in for a full 20.

It sounds like you're a junior in college. I would consider doing Marine PLC, and going to OCS this summer, as well as applying for medical school. You'll finish OCS, and may decide that you don't want to do it as much as you thought, and then you can turn down your commission and pursue medical school. If you decide you want to postpone medical school, just withdraw your med school application. You'll be out a little bit of money, but you'll also be paid a little while at OCS, so it should offset.

 

[pgg]

One thing that I don't like about the Navy medicine is that they don't really put you through leadership development like they do with the line officers or Marine OCS. They just want you to be a doctor. To be fair, most Navy docs just want to be docs and don't want to take on the role of a line officer. I tend to enjoy the high speed stuff a little more.

That's a feature, not a bug.

The line needs doctors, not medical corps doofuses who think they're at adventure summer camp.

Don't get me wrong, you can enjoy your experience in operational billets, and there's a certain minimum level of officership, for lack of a better word, that needs to be maintained. But I've seen more physicians (GMOs mostly) get into trouble for being too much of an officer, than for being too much of a doctor.

You aren't going to find many military physicians who think we need more hours of "professional military training" ...

 

[Apollyon]

That's a feature, not a bug.

The line needs doctors, not medical corps doofuses who think they're at adventure summer camp.

Don't get me wrong, you can enjoy your experience in operational billets, and trees a certain minimum level of officership, for lack of a better word, that needs to be maintained. But I've seen more physicians (GMOs mostly) get into trouble for being too much of an officer, than for being too much of a doctor.

You aren't going to find many military physicians who think we need more hours of "professional military training" ...

That's exactly what one of our tacs (tactial officers) said way back in 1988 (when I was also at a senior military college) - "the Navy doesn't want doctors and lawyers - they want line officers". That was in our NROTC orientation. In other words, yes, if you want to be an officer of Marines, by all means, do it. However, as a doctor in the military, you have one job as a "staff puke" - keeping the war machine rolling. Period. The staff exists exclusively to keep the line going.

 

[pgg]

That's exactly what one of our tacs (tactial officers) said way back in 1988 (when I was also at a senior military college) - "the Navy doesn't want doctors and lawyers - they want line officers". That was in our NROTC orientation. In other words, yes, if you want to be an officer of Marines, by all means, do it. However, as a doctor in the military, you have one job as a "staff puke" - keeping the war machine rolling. Period. The staff exists exclusively to keep the line going.

While I don't disagree with that, it's not exactly what I meant. My post was more a criticism of the adventure-seeking doctors themselves, than the line that encourages or permits it.


There can be a lot of pressure from the line for doctors to emphasize the officership over doctorship. It's up to us to give those kind of commanders what they need (doctors) and not what they want (officers).

In general, the right thing to do is resist that pressure. Doctors are NOT just line officers with some extra medical training and a different corps pin or patch.


Truly, in this non-world-war era, the situations where the correct decision is for a military doctor to "keep the war machine rolling" to the detriment of an individual are VANISHINGLY rare. It's all the line likes to talk about, but it's the rare exception, not the rule. If you find yourself in a 2014 Alamo where the ISIS-ites are scaling the walls, sure, you get that wounded soldier back on the wall with his flintlock even if he's bleeding out. I'm just saying that situations where a critical time-sensitive mission is going to fail if you don't put the mission before an individual's health are a hell of a lot rarer (to the point of near non-existence) than those gung-ho, put-the-doc-in-the-lead-Humvee, well-meaning-but-foolish line officers think.

And that despite the fact that yes, the staff exist to support the line, as military doctors our first priority is almost always the individual health of the people under our care. There are plenty of people in uniform. The kill-people/break-things mission will go on.

Sometimes the Marine needs his physical therapy more than he needs to spend the week camping out at the range. Even if the S3 thinks the battalion will fall apart without that lance corporal in the field.

What I meant was that doctors who embrace that mentality and try hard to be "just another staff officer" in the unit are usually doing the wrong thing.

 

[TheTruckGuy]

Some of my idealism probably stems from my time at an SMC. I just hear about docs that don't shave, barely know how to wear a uniform, miss quarters, don't mentor those around them, and I don't want to be like that. I don't expect to be taught to replace a SWO, but I think there's more to officership and leadership than that.

Maybe when I hit the fleet my attitude will change when I see the reality of what things are like. I don't know. At the very least I want to set a good example.


Also, I may be an example of why the OP should join the Marines before becoming staff Corps.

 

[Atticum]

Tough call. I feel torn about offering you advice either way (USMC or HPSP). I am prior-enlisted 0311 (reserve) and I wouldn't be in medical school today if I hadn't become a Marine.

So here's my advice:

Don't half ass it. Do some soul searching and commit. Trust me, you really, really, really don't want to become a Marine Officer with the attitude of "I'm here because I just want to be able to say 'I'm a Marine' but really I'm going to do my time and go be a doctor after I get out four years from now."

 

[33Marine]

I am a prior Marine Officer at USUHS. Made this profile while I was still in the fleet in fact, can you guess the unit?

Bottom Line Up Front: If you have what it takes to be Marine Officer and get into medical school independently, there is no way the former would detract from the latter.

But I would like to go to USUHS after I am finished with a commission in the Marines (for the Navy). I have heard the Navy does not like to take prior service Marines. Any truth to this as far as medicine goes? Would I be screwing myself into a corner by going into the Marines for four years before med school? Would I be screwing myself into a corner by going into the Marines for four years before med school? Do you think USUHS would look upon prior Marine service as a positive or negative? I'm really concerned about this because it means a great deal to me to go into the USMC, but maybe not at the cost of an entire career in Navy medicine.

Navy and USUHS love taking prior service Marines if they are competitive candidates. As everyone else has emphasized prior service doesn't obviate the need for good scores. Note that USUHS for a Marine does not automatically equal Navy; if the Navy slots fill up first, then you might only have a USUHS spot in another service.

I've never regretted my time spent in the Marines. Sure it's four less years of your life that you'll be a doctor, but if that matters to you, you don't want to be a Marine. Atticum has the jist of it.

Finally to address the side conversation on this board, everyone is right on the vast gulf in leadership training between the two and the need for us to bridge the gap as best we can. A Chief (most of career as IDC for Recon) that taught me once put it best: "there are doctors who happen to be in the military and military people who become doctors, what we really want and need are those in the middle who are military doctors." The dual obligation to patient and unit/mission are tough to balance, but one should never completely trump the other.