Prior Service

[will2tom]

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I spent four years active duty enlisted before going to medical school on an HPSP scholarship. I was wondering if my base pay will include my four years of medical school. For example will I be paid as an O3 with eight years or just an O3 with four years time in service. My LES indicate that I currently have 7 years time in service so it looks like there counting medical school right now but I don't know if that will change once I graduate. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MoosePilot]

I'm jealous. Time as an enlisted person is more valuable than commissioned time, from what I can gather. Look at 0-1E pay vs. O-1 with over 8 pay. It's weird...

 

[Heeed!]

I spent four years active duty enlisted before going to medical school on an HPSP scholarship. I was wondering if my base pay will include my four years of medical school. For example will I be paid as an O3 with eight years or just an O3 with four years time in service. My LES indicate that I currently have 7 years time in service so it looks like there counting medical school right now but I don't know if that will change once I graduate. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You'll get your extra $$$$. Not for your HPSP time, just for prior service. And speaking from experience, it is NICE! 👍

 

[DCM]

My understanding based on people who've done it and recruiters is that the HPSP time does not count as time in service. Not for pay or retirment. So if you had 4 years before med school, when you graduate you will be an O-3 >4. Someone without prior service would be an O-3 <2.

I have heard that you can arrange HPSP years to count as creditable reserve years, but haven't fiugured out how to do it. Does anyone else know about this?

 

[bogatyr]

Every year I get a statement in the mail from the Army reserve PERSCOM saying I earned another 15 points this year. I have no idea what this means, and don't really care since I'm planning on 4 & out.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

I'm jealous. Time as an enlisted person is more valuable than commissioned time, from what I can gather. Look at 0-1E pay vs. O-1 with over 8 pay. It's weird...

What an ignorant statement...there isn't a rolleyes emoticon big enough for this.

Surely you understand why there are prior-enlisted commissioned officer pay and not prior-officer commissioned officer pay scales, right? More than likely the lack of prior-service officer pay scales is due to the rarity of officers who resign their commission as an officer to...wait for it...accept a commission as an officer. Really, how many current officers do you think do that every year? Ten? Twenty? Compare that to the number of enlisted members that receive a commission every year and you can see why the powers that be might overlook this sadly neglected servicemember population.

Having been an officer yourself, do you really think that lawmakers and other officers who set policy for the armed services would discriminate against their own, so to speak? In my experience, any bias in favor of enlisted servicemembers would probably be more the result of an unfortunate oversight than any real intent. Perhaps you could petition the armed services to get this changed so that any prior-service in excess of four years would receive the increased pay.

 

[Globus P]

The reason for the O-1 (thru 3)E pay scale is for the senior enlisted who become commissioned officers or Limited Duty Officers (LDO). If you crunch the numbers, E-7s and above, including CWOs, who become LDOs or Commissioned officers would take a significant pay cut if they only had the regular O-1 (with years in service) pay scale. Hence the O-1E pay scale, so they don't take a pay cut. (BTW, part of the requirements to become an LDO require significant prior service, usually competitively E-7 or above.) Who would do it if you took a huge pay cut? Very few. That's what the E scale is for, now you know....

 

[MoosePilot]

What an ignorant statement...there isn't a rolleyes emoticon big enough for this.

Surely you understand why there are prior-enlisted commissioned officer pay and not prior-officer commissioned officer pay scales, right? More than likely the lack of prior-service officer pay scales is due to the rarity of officers who resign their commission as an officer to...wait for it...accept a commission as an officer. Really, how many current officers do you think do that every year? Ten? Twenty? Compare that to the number of enlisted members that receive a commission every year and you can see why the powers that be might overlook this sadly neglected servicemember population.

Having been an officer yourself, do you really think that lawmakers and other officers who set policy for the armed services would discriminate against their own, so to speak? In my experience, any bias in favor of enlisted servicemembers would probably be more the result of an unfortunate oversight than any real intent. Perhaps you could petition the armed services to get this changed so that any prior-service in excess of four years would receive the increased pay.

Ignorant statement? Whoa there. The simple fact is that I will be paid less because my prior service was as a commissioned officer than if it were as an enlisted member (2,948.10 vs. 3,264.90). So for the enlisted person who later commissioned his prior service time would be monetarily more valuable than my time based on this increased pay. It's a significant enough difference that if he had over 4 (half as much prior time) he'd make as much and if he had over 6 he'd already be making more. I'm clearly ok with that, or I could continue at my O-3 or perhaps O-4 by that time salary. However, it is a funny discrepancy.

It might very well be an oversight. It's just cockeyed, that's all.

 

[MoosePilot]

The reason for the O-1 (thru 3)E pay scale is for the senior enlisted who become commissioned officers or Limited Duty Officers (LDO). If you crunch the numbers, E-7s and above, including CWOs, who become LDOs or Commissioned officers would take a significant pay cut if they only had the regular O-1 (with years in service) pay scale. Hence the O-1E pay scale, so they don't take a pay cut. (BTW, part of the requirements to become an LDO require significant prior service, usually competitively E-7 or above.) Who would do it if you took a huge pay cut? Very few. That's what the E scale is for, now you know....

Looks like an E-7 would take his first pay cut at the over 10 point and there it's miniscule. Admittedly most E-7s probably have more time than this in. I know they're not overly concerned with pay cuts, though, or else I wouldn't be looking at a $1500 a month pay cut. Who would do that? Must be an idiot

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

Ignorant statement? Whoa there. The simple fact is that I will be paid less because my prior service was as a commissioned officer than if it were as an enlisted member (2,948.10 vs. 3,264.90). So for the enlisted person who later commissioned his prior service time would be monetarily more valuable than my time based on this increased pay. It's a significant enough difference that if he had over 4 (half as much prior time) he'd make as much and if he had over 6 he'd already be making more. I'm clearly ok with that, or I could continue at my O-3 or perhaps O-4 by that time salary. However, it is a funny discrepancy.

It might very well be an oversight. It's just cockeyed, that's all.

Your statement was ignorant because even a moment's reflection would have revealed just how such a situation may have come to pass. The "simple fact" is that the people who set the policy never anticipated that a commissioned officer would ever resign his commission to accept another commission at a lower paygrade; for that matter, there are no prior-officer enlisted pay scales, either. While I'm sure that such things happen, they are rare enough that they escape the notice of those who would set the rules regarding prior service pay. There is nothing "weird" about it; it is an understandable, if unfortunate, consequence of policies meant to cover the situations most likely to occur.

You're acting like someone actually made a considered decision to deny you and others like you the pay that should rightfully be yours. That didn't happen. They don't consider enlisted time "more valuable"; that it works out to be in practice is an understandable effect of the current pay policies. Don't like it? Write someone. They probably have no idea that this is happening to commissioned officers with years of honorable service. Who woulda thunk it? What a noble officer, though; selflessly sacrificing thousands of dollars in pay and benefits in order to serve as a healer for his fellow servicemembers and continue to serve his country! With the right spin, this could get on the national news as a wrong that absolutely must be righted, to give those who have already given so much a little well-deserved justice.

 

[MoosePilot]

Your statement was ignorant because even a moment's reflection would have revealed just how such a situation may have come to pass. The "simple fact" is that the people who set the policy never anticipated that a commissioned officer would ever resign his commission to accept another commission at a lower paygrade; for that matter, there are no prior-officer enlisted pay scales, either. While I'm sure that such things happen, they are rare enough that they escape the notice of those who would set the rules regarding prior service pay. There is nothing "weird" about it; it is an understandable, if unfortunate, consequence of policies meant to cover the situations most likely to occur.

You're acting like someone actually made a considered decision to deny you and others like you the pay that should rightfully be yours. That didn't happen. They don't consider enlisted time "more valuable"; that it works out to be in practice is an understandable effect of the current pay policies. Don't like it? Write someone. They probably have no idea that this is happening to commissioned officers with years of honorable service. Who woulda thunk it? What a noble officer, though; selflessly sacrificing thousands of dollars in pay and benefits in order to serve as a healer for his fellow servicemembers and continue to serve his country! With the right spin, this could get on the national news as a wrong that absolutely must be righted, to give those who have already given so much a little well-deserved justice.

Nah, the $300 isn't worth doing that. It's actually nice that the Es have an advantage for once.

I'm not saying anyone actually thought about it. Anytime there's a pay discrepancy, though, it accords greater value to whoever is getting paid more. Oversight or not. It's really not a huge deal. I wouldn't be looking to go that way if it really freaked me out.

As for whether it *is* an oversight, I know that probably 2 or 3 pilots a year go to USUHS. If you look at all the commissioned officers who've gone to USUHS after they've been promoted above 2Lt and perhaps the lawyers as well, although I don't know if they face a similar situation, it adds up. I'd guess it's happened in excess of 100 times. A drop in the bucket to the military, but I'm betting the higher up pay people are detail oriented enough that they know about it.

 

[denali]

The discrepancy does somewhat get remedied in the sense that former enlisted don't get TIG credit towards promotion.

 

[Globus P]

Looks like an E-7 would take his first pay cut at the over 10 point and there it's miniscule. Admittedly most E-7s probably have more time than this in. I know they're not overly concerned with pay cuts, though, or else I wouldn't be looking at a $1500 a month pay cut. Who would do that? Must be an idiot

No joke Moose, same here, every payday when I look at my measely HPSP $615 stipend, I shake my head thinking of the good ole days (O-3E over 12)....sacrifices must be made! Those were the days of Outback Steakhouse, fillet mignon, and fine wine, now its Taco Bell and diet Pepsi....the fine cusine of med students. 🙂

In the end, it'll be worth it, or so they say.

 

[GMO_52]

The discrepancy does somewhat get remedied in the sense that former enlisted don't get TIG credit towards promotion.

True, but the mustangs do enjoy the fact that they make more during school. The prior O's will make O4 twice as fast (when the E pay drops out anyway) so they probably do better in the long run.

 

[MoosePilot]

The discrepancy does somewhat get remedied in the sense that former enlisted don't get TIG credit towards promotion.

Oh, wow. That's a good point.

 

[MoosePilot]

No joke Moose, same here, every payday when I look at my measely HPSP $615 stipend, I shake my head thinking of the good ole days (O-3E over 12)....sacrifices must be made! Those were the days of Outback Steakhouse, fillet mignon, and fine wine, now its Taco Bell and diet Pepsi....the fine cusine of med students. 🙂

In the end, it'll be worth it, or so they say.

Yeah, HPSP vs. USUHS would be a huge difference for me. I need steak...

 

[MountaineerDoc]

Your statement was ignorant because even a moment's reflection would have revealed just how such a situation may have come to pass. The "simple fact" is that the people who set the policy never anticipated that a commissioned officer would ever resign his commission to accept another commission at a lower paygrade; for that matter, there are no prior-officer enlisted pay scales, either. While I'm sure that such things happen, they are rare enough that they escape the notice of those who would set the rules regarding prior service pay. There is nothing "weird" about it; it is an understandable, if unfortunate, consequence of policies meant to cover the situations most likely to occur.

You're acting like someone actually made a considered decision to deny you and others like you the pay that should rightfully be yours. That didn't happen. They don't consider enlisted time "more valuable"; that it works out to be in practice is an understandable effect of the current pay policies. Don't like it? Write someone. They probably have no idea that this is happening to commissioned officers with years of honorable service. Who woulda thunk it? What a noble officer, though; selflessly sacrificing thousands of dollars in pay and benefits in order to serve as a healer for his fellow servicemembers and continue to serve his country! With the right spin, this could get on the national news as a wrong that absolutely must be righted, to give those who have already given so much a little well-deserved justice.

Honorable Mayor Simpleton,
Take a chill pill in that Orifice of yours...

I, 6 years E, and 6 years O, EI-EI-O!

 

[spc213]

I have heard that you can arrange HPSP years to count as creditable reserve years, but haven't fiugured out how to do it. Does anyone else know about this?

Here's the way it works for the Army:

A "good year" for the Army Reserve = 50 or more points. If you are new to the military as an HPSP participant, your Retirement Year Ending Date (RYE) is the date you sign your paperwork and take your 2LT rank. That's the date where you begin counting your 50 points. If you are prior enlisted, it will usually be your Pay Entry Basic Date (PEBD) where you begin counting. Each year you pass your RYE date, the count starts over.

You get fifteen points each year you are a member of the Army Reserve. This is the statement that bogatyr referred to.

Each day you spend on active duty or do work for the military, you get one point. So, if you spend 45 days on active duty during the summer, you will have a total of 60 points, and a "good year," for the Army Reserve.

If you spend 4 years on active duty and then join the reserve component, each of those years will be credited to your account up to a maximum of 365 points each.

Make sure you get proper credit for those years while in school, even if you think you know that you will never get a military retirement -- you never know when they may come in to play.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

 

[QM1]

Every year I get a statement in the mail from the Army reserve PERSCOM saying I earned another 15 points this year. I have no idea what this means, and don't really care since I'm planning on 4 & out.

If it's what I think, you get 15 retirement points simply for being under contract. At least that's what enlisted reservists get.