PRN Critical care compensation

[Vergie]

I have completed a CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

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[abolt18]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

Considering they don't have to pay any extra benefits, housing, travel, food per diem, that seems a little low to me from what I've read on here in the past.

 

[vector2]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

Hours per day in house? Average census size? By yourself or an army of mid levels and residents?

It's def on the low side for a non-academic gig

 

[Vergie]

Non academic. 2 docs and 2 NPs during the day. I don't know the average census yet but I imagine full. No residents

 

[IMGASMD]

@chocomorsel may have a better idea what the market rate is ....

I would say though as a hospitalist I was making 150-175/hr a few years ago..... it seems low to me for icu physicians to make 30 bucks more than hospitalist. But that was a few years ago..... not sure what the market is now.

 

[partydoc]

I had an offer for 290

 

[CCM-MD]

Thats on the low side. I'm getting locums calls for $250-350 hourly. My main gig is about $200/h.

Location matters. That may be a decent rate for a very desirable location.

 

[GassYous]

When New York was deluged in the spring, hospitals were calling in out of state nurses for more than they are offering you

 

[dannyboy1]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

Please clarify. Is this the hospital you typically work for/in. Are you hospital employed or pp/AMC. if you are hospital employed and they are offering you 180/hr on top of your regular salary it’s a great deal. If you work for a group you would have to take time off to work for the hospital then it sucks.

 

[Ronin786]

My ICU nurses are getting offers for $130 an hour to staff the private hospital across the street from our academic center.

 

[GaseousClay]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

they are paying ICU nurses way more than that around the country

 

[psychbender]

Prior to Covid, I did some random prn CCM work at another hospital for $200/hr. Apparently, I am a lousy negotiator, as the other guys there doing locums were getting at least $225/hr.

 

[chocomorsel]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

That is low, low, low, low. Do not get taken advantage of. Please. PM me if you have questions.

 

[deleted547339]

they are paying ICU nurses way more than that around the country

You think they’re paying icu nurses > 330k/y?

 

[deleted547339]

I have completed completed CC fellowship but normally practice anesthesia full time. Hospital is asking for help to staff ICUs. I am open to the idea but feel like there should be fair compensation. their offer is $180/hr. I have *heard* of much higher rates but not sure how accurate. I feel like given how full hospitals are and the amount of work it should be much higher. Anyone have thoughts on this? Are they seriously lowballing in the middle of a pandemic?

100% depends on the job. That would be over 360k/y doing 14 12h shifts a month. I don’t remember exactly, but I think that’s about median CCM salary. If it was a super high acuity icu where your supervising mid levels and responding to codes, etc, it’s low. If it’s a small, low-acuity med-surge icu I would do it.

Yes, there are some jobs that pay way more, and there are people who are desperate who will pay through the nose to cover some shifts. I like my job and my employer and I wouldn’t feel comfortable gouging them. When a contract management group couldn’t staff a place when I was a resident, I didn’t think twice about gouging them.

I know there are people making a lot more than me, but I always find it shocking when people come out and say “oh, that’s way too low” or “you’re crazy to take that” when it comes in right around median salary.

 

[bigdan]

$180/h is waaaay too low.

If you’re interested in picking up some coin, just drop your name with a headhunter. I am NOT looking for extra work, but get called about ICU gigs at least 1x/week, and I cannot remember being told of jobs less than $240/h.

Now, there is comfort in pulling into the same parking spot, knowing who makes your omelette just right in the cafeteria, and already knowing which surgeons & consultants are assassins, so I wouldn’t blame you for taking something less-than-market rate if you’re just trying to help out and be a good guy, and you don’t want to move/do the whole credentials jag/etc... But even for that, $180 is too low.

 

[psychbender]

I usually just delete these, but in the last hour, I just received a text and an email about two separate locum CCM opportunities in California for $300/hr, plus $66 daily per diem, and the usual travel/lodging/etc.

 

[chocomorsel]

Thats on the low side. I'm getting locums calls for $250-350 hourly. My main gig is about $200/h.

Location matters. That may be a decent rate for a very desirable location.

Dude, don’t care the location. Screw that. We are in the middle of a pandemic. It is terrible out there.

 

[chocomorsel]

You think they’re paying icu nurses > 330k/y?

Yes. But many are working solid 60 hour weeks and more. If they did it for a year, yeah.

 

[CCM-MD]

100% depends on the job. That would be over 360k/y doing 14 12h shifts a month. I don’t remember exactly, but I think that’s about median CCM salary. If it was a super high acuity icu where your supervising mid levels and responding to codes, etc, it’s low. If it’s a small, low-acuity med-surge icu I would do it.

Yes, there are some jobs that pay way more, and there are people who are desperate who will pay through the nose to cover some shifts. I like my job and my employer and I wouldn’t feel comfortable gouging them. When a contract management group couldn’t staff a place when I was a resident, I didn’t think twice about gouging them.

I know there are people making a lot more than me, but I always find it shocking when people come out and say “oh, that’s way too low” or “you’re crazy to take that” when it comes in right around median salary.

2020 MGMA CCM median is 430k.

 

[chocomorsel]

2020 MGMA CCM median is 430k.

Yeah, I was wondering where he got those numbers.

 

[deleted547339]

Yeah, I was wondering where he got those numbers.

Medscape says 355

 

[chocomorsel]

Medscape says 355

Not a reliable place for salary info. Just the medicine.

 

[CCM-MD]

Medscape says 355

Medscape survey is a joke.

 

[GassYous]

Medscape says 355

lol

 

[partydoc]

One of our nurses just left for a job in AZ making $6k/week.

 

[chessknt]

My rule is to take what sdn says and divide it in half and that is probably a realistic rate but I don't have hard data to back up my methodology

 

[IMGASMD]

weekly pay, just as mysterious as my yearly salary.

Without knowing how many hours and how much “work” it’s just a number.

 

[CCM-MD]

My rule is to take what sdn says and divide it in half and that is probably a realistic rate but I don't have hard data to back up my methodology

No need to divide by half.

These are pre-negotiation and aren’t even the best ones.

 

[alpinism]

They were paying NPs 225/hr in NYC for shifts during the spring.

 

[Vergie]

Please clarify. Is this the hospital you typically work for/in. Are you hospital employed or pp/AMC. if you are hospital employed and they are offering you 180/hr on top of your regular salary it’s a great deal. If you work for a group you would have to take time off to work for the hospital then it sucks.

Sorry for delay. It is not hospital employed. We contract. It’s more along the lines of floating some of our guys up to ICU to help their CC doc shortage with the covid units which I should have clarified in my initial post. My understanding is that they are having a hard time getting locums coverage, probably because they are offering so little but I am speculating on that.

Thanks for the the info everyone. We all agree that the numbers are low but not sure how this is all going to play out. Lots of hospital politics too as I’m sure everyone knows.

 

[deleted697535]

Wouldn't get out of bed for that

 

[IMGASMD]

Sorry for delay. It is not hospital employed. We contract. It’s more along the lines of floating some of our guys up to ICU to help their CC doc shortage with the covid units which I should have clarified in my initial post. My understanding is that they are having a hard time getting locums coverage, probably because they are offering so little but I am speculating on that.

Thanks for the the info everyone. We all agree that the numbers are low but not sure how this is all going to play out. Lots of hospital politics too as I’m sure everyone knows.

Sure some good will may go a long way, but not for that far below market price.....

 

[chocomorsel]

Sure some good will may go a long way, but not for that far below market price.....

Screw good will. I want MONEY!

 

[IMGASMD]

Screw good will. I want MONEY!

Show her the moneyyyy.....

 

[deleted547339]

Wouldn't get out of bed for that

A little bravado, no? If not, I think that speaks a lot to how skewed our profession is. That’s high 300s full time.

 

[chocomorsel]

A little bravado, no? If not, I think that speaks a lot to how skewed our profession is. That’s high 300s full time.

Know your worth.
I wouldn’t get out of bed for that either.
This is locums money we are talking about. Not full time academics with a fat pension and good benefits.
Stop it.

 

[GaseousClay]

Yes. But many are working solid 60 hour weeks and more. If they did it for a year, yeah.

nurse told me she got offers for $30-36k per month to go to some place like South Dakota or some other less populous place.

 

[pgg]

nurse told me she got offers for $30-36k per month to go to some place like South Dakota or some other less populous place.

People should make hay while the sun shines. The market is what the market is.

In 2006 I knew a 26 year old rookie real estate agent making $35K/month in commissions selling houses in Jacksonville ... the North Carolina Jacksonville, no less. She thought it would last forever.

 

[Splenda88]

Not even graduated IM residency yet and I am having locum hospitalist offers $170-190/hr... I will not entertain any offer less than 200 after graduation. Can't even imaging a CCM doc taking less than $225/hr.

 

[chessknt]

Not even graduated IM residency yet and I am having locum hospitalist offers $170-190/hr... I will not entertain any offer less than 200 after graduation. Can't even imaging a CCM doc taking less than $225/hr.

Locums always pays more and usually for good reason--the jobs that need locums can be huge dumpster fires.

I saw a ccm locums posting with a really good rate and had a friend in the area. Apparently over 80% of the experienced ICU rn staff had quit over the past month over a wage dispute and all the ccm docs left too and the only one who knew how to do anything was the charge, rts all quit etc. Basically you'd be walking in to a situation where you had to also train all new staff or be responsible for their ****ups.

 

[chocomorsel]

No need to divide by half.

View attachment 325755
View attachment 325754

These are pre-negotiation and aren’t even the best ones.

Like I said, SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

 

[chocomorsel]

Locums always pays more and usually for good reason--the jobs that need locums can be huge dumpster fires.

I saw a ccm locums posting with a really good rate and had a friend in the area. Apparently over 80% of the experienced ICU rn staff had quit over the past month over a wage dispute and all the ccm docs left too and the only one who knew how to do anything was the charge, rts all quit etc. Basically you'd be walking in to a situation where you had to also train all new staff or be responsible for their ****ups.

This is happening all over the nation. Not unique to any hospital. We aren’t responsible for the RNs or the RTs. We don’t train them. We do our best to try to keep them afloat. I am in a situation like this currently. But like our dear soon to be ex president says “it is what it is.” You do what you can. I have learned to not let this **** affect me. Otherwise I would need some serious drugs.

It’s not always like this. It’s just this year.

And any other year no way am I gonna take $180 an hour. EVER! Not even close. Worked too hard to get here and I am gonna get mines!!

 

[chessknt]

This is happening all over the nation. Not unique to any hospital. We aren’t responsible for the RNs or the RTs. We don’t train them. We do our best to try to keep them afloat. I am in a situation like this currently. But like our dear soon to be ex president says “it is what it is.” You do what you can. I have learned to not let this **** affect me. Otherwise I would need some serious drugs.

It’s not always like this. It’s just this year.

And any other year no way am I gonna take $180 an hour. EVER! Not even close. Worked too hard to get here and I am gonna get mines!!

So what rate are you getting? Is it locums? How many hours per week? How many patients? Because I looked at over 20 jobs in rural midwest areas that you would think are paying pie in the sky numbers within the last 3 years and I never found one that paid in the 300/hr range, not even close. But the majority of these were hospital employed with benefits but avg was in the neighborhood of 2.2-2.5k per 12h shift with some nebulous wimpy bonus structure. At 350/hr it should be 4k+ per shift but I have never seen that and have no idea how a hospital could afford that since ccm billing would have to be huge to cover it (assuming a generous 70/rvu you'd have to bill 13 ccm per day, more realistic Medicare 50/rvu you're closer to 18).

 

[chocomorsel]

So what rate are you getting? Is it locums? How many hours per week? How many patients? Because I looked at over 20 jobs in rural midwest areas that you would think are paying pie in the sky numbers within the last 3 years and I never found one that paid in the 300/hr range, not even close. But the majority of these were hospital employed with benefits but avg was in the neighborhood of 2.2-2.5k per 12h shift with some nebulous wimpy bonus structure. At 350/hr it should be 4k+ per shift but I have never seen that and have no idea how a hospital could afford that since ccm billing would have to be huge to cover it (assuming a generous 70/rvu you'd have to bill 13 ccm per day, more realistic Medicare 50/rvu you're closer to 18).

We are in the middle of a pandemic. Haven’t you heard.
If hospitals can afford nurses at $100 or more an hour they can afford a doc at $300 an hour.
The government is printing Domino money. And I am taking my cut.
Haven’t you heard?

 

[chessknt]

Ok so you renegotiated you contract mid year? To what rate?

 

[chocomorsel]

Ok so you renegotiated you contract mid year? To what rate?

Clearly you know nothing about me. I have only short term contracts. 30 day notice. And the market rate for intensivists during these times are between 250-350. Some people are making more.

 

[secants]

Locums anesthesia in nyc doing OR is still going for 225-250, at the covid peak via female people were getting 375, I'm sure CC has to be at least on par with for all the work it entails.

 

[inspirationmd]

Clearly you know nothing about me. I have only short term contracts. 30 day notice. And the market rate for intensivists during these times are between 250-350. Some people are making more.

I'm curious about thoughts. Looking at doing a couple of weeks to help cover over next 6 months and fatten up the war chest.

Does anyone know if the hospital gets charged an increased amount if you tell the locums company you want a higher rate? Or do locums companies get a set rate and then its on you to negotiate up? I got one offer up from $225 to $250 but now I am wondering if I shouldn't push for more seeing that range.

Nights 7p-7a on site, NP/PA working with me. Usual procedures. 18-24 patient cross coverage. Respond to codes. 2-4 admissions on average overnight. Very familiar with hospital and has good support. Not a horrible gig. About 2.5 hours drive from my house so in a hotel that they of course paid for. Gas mileage for my car provided as well.

 

[GassYous]

I'm curious about thoughts. Looking at doing a couple of weeks to help cover over next 6 months and fatten up the war chest.

Does anyone know if the hospital gets charged an increased amount if you tell the locums company you want a higher rate? Or do locums companies get a set rate and then its on you to negotiate up? I got one offer up from $225 to $250 but now I am wondering if I shouldn't push for more seeing that range.

Nights 7p-7a on site, NP/PA working with me. Usual procedures. 18-24 patient cross coverage. Respond to codes. 2-4 admissions on average overnight. Very familiar with hospital and has good support. Not a horrible gig. About 2.5 hours drive from my house so in a hotel that they of course paid for. Gas mileage for my car provided as well.

Always ask for more. They need you more than you need them.