Professors betting against you

[ranob]

Background: Starting from the start of my first semester at college, before I had any kind of record whatsoever at this university, my adviser bet that I wouldn't be able to handle the courses I'd chosen. Same for all the professors I talked to. Start of second semester, he proceeded to inform me that my course plan was nothing like first semester, and as such he thought I couldn't handle it yet again, despite having a proven track record. Again, same for all the professors I talked to. Same story start of third semester. Now, my adviser is yet again informing me that my course list for fourth semester (!!) is nothing like the previous semesters, and as such if he had to bet, he'd bet on my grades tanking, for real this time. Despite my successes in the previous semesters. Although of course he claims that he'd be happy to be proven wrong, as he has been the last three (!!) times. And of course, same story for all the professors I've talked to. As usual, they've decided to discount the courses I've already taken, claiming they aren't related to the ones they're teaching.

TLDR: Is betting against undergraduates a part of university culture or something? I can understand this happening in high school (due to the small sample size of students), but would have thought college professors would be knowledgeable enough to make more accurate predictions. Unless this really is some kind of tactic found in one of those motivational tactics books.

Perhaps this is a rather minor complaint, but it can tend on one's nerves after a while.
Any premeds here experienced this phenomenon, by any chance?

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[WedgeDawg]

Maybe you should get a different advisor?

 

[ranob]

Maybe you should get a different advisor?

You don't get to choose your adviser here. He's assigned to you. I take it you haven't experienced this phenomenon?

 

[WedgeDawg]

You don't get to choose your adviser here. He's assigned to you. I take it you haven't experienced this phenomenon?

You could also just not follow his/her advice. I rarely spoke with an advisor in college. I generally figured stuff out by talking to other students, internet research, and trial/error.

 

[tenblackalps]

Use it as motivation.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I think it depends on the professor and advisors. I know a guy in my research group who was told to his face by an OChem professor that because he was getting a B, and not an A, he wasn't smart enough for medical school. And my school is usually pretty supportive. I've just always taken the road of avoiding such negative people, you don't need them. Good for you to prove them wrong!

 

[rilte4]

Find quality advice elsewhere, but be very, very careful in your interactions with this person if they're related to your school's premed committee in any way or if their feedback could get back to the committee. Not only will the premed office write your committee letter, but they'll most likely be holding on to all of your other letters a few years down the line when you're sweating over whether they'll be sent out in a timely fashion. Doesn't matter how frustrating he is - be sweet as pie around him.

 

[ranob]

You could also just not follow his/her advice. I rarely spoke with an advisor in college. I generally figured stuff out by talking to other students, internet research, and trial/error.

Over here, we need our adviser to sign off on our course plan each semester. I wouldn't be meeting with him each semester if I didn't have to do so

 

[Ismet]

Ignore them and you do you. Get your advisor to sign whatever he needs to sign and cover your ears whenever he decides to bestow his "expert" advice unto you.

You don't need to prove yourself to these professors let alone the advisor. You have the track record, feel good about that, you proved to YOURSELF that you can handle it, and you'll prove to med schools that you handled it. I know it can be tough to hear people telling you what you can't do, but blow them off to the best of your ability. It's not like that everywhere.

 

[BphysDoc]

Talk to the dean of students, and ask for adviser change.

 

[Red G]

Just say "challenge accepted." Only you know you.

Most of my advisors wasn't helpful at all (I switched a few times because my advisor went on sabbatical one semester, then retired). I planned everything "by myself" by talking with older students and other bio professors. The chair of the premed committee at my school was naturally super helpful.

 

[moemoekyun]

I had a professor do something similar, telling me to drop his classes, and now he wrote me a letter of rec. Maybe the courseload(s) you have have been shown to lead to failure for other students in the past, and they don't want the same to happen to you. As others have said, ignore them.

 

[futuremdforme]

It sounds like that's just his approach. It's annoying but you've proven several times that you know better, so I'd try to meet up with him as little as possible, and do not base any serious life plans on anything he says.

 

[Medic5522]

From my undergrad experience, I feel like it's pretty common. Undergrad advisors and profs see a constant stream of hopeful pre-meds that end up not being able to handle the course load. Use it as motivation to not make yourself another statistic.

I had something very similar happen to me. The director of our pre-med advising department laughed in my face and told me that my thousands of clinical hours as a paramedic in an ER meant nothing to medical schools and that I needed to "quit my job and focus on shadowing" if I wanted to have any hope of getting in. Needless to say, I didn't go back. Stay strong.

 

[DokterMom]

Some students are actually motivated by statements like that, and that could be his/her thinking behind those statements. You've proven him/her wrong before by succeeding with a tough schedule. Like @Red G says, think of it as "Challenge accepted" and continue to do well.

Do consider his/her advice though and be prepared to drop a class if things do begin to wobble out of control. A W will look better than a D or two Cs and AdComs tend not to be impressed by early graduations, heavy course loads or triple majors so much as by stellar GPAs.

 

[Turkishking]

Background: Starting from the start of my first semester at college, before I had any kind of record whatsoever at this university, my adviser bet that I wouldn't be able to handle the courses I'd chosen. Same for all the professors I talked to. Start of second semester, he proceeded to inform me that my course plan was nothing like first semester, and as such he thought I couldn't handle it yet again, despite having a proven track record. Again, same for all the professors I talked to. Same story start of third semester. Now, my adviser is yet again informing me that my course list for fourth semester (!!) is nothing like the previous semesters, and as such if he had to bet, he'd bet on my grades tanking, for real this time. Despite my successes in the previous semesters. Although of course he claims that he'd be happy to be proven wrong, as he has been the last three (!!) times. And of course, same story for all the professors I've talked to. As usual, they've decided to discount the courses I've already taken, claiming they aren't related to the ones they're teaching.

TLDR: Is betting against undergraduates a part of university culture or something? I can understand this happening in high school (due to the small sample size of students), but would have thought college professors would be knowledgeable enough to make more accurate predictions. Unless this really is some kind of tactic found in one of those motivational tactics books.

Perhaps this is a rather minor complaint, but it can tend on one's nerves after a while.
Any premeds here experienced this phenomenon, by any chance?

Your adviser doesn't sound so good...

 

[goldy490]

TBH this sounds more like a humble brag than an actual problem lol

 

[gmbz]

I didn't use a single advisor. After reading the horror stories of these forums I am glad that I didn't!

 

[WingedOx]

TBH this sounds more like a humble brag than an actual problem lol

read his post history.

 

[bc65]

What's your schedule? Maybe they are right. I would advise against too many credits or too many hard science courses at the same time. It may catch up with you eventually.

 

[kmp0410]

Its annoying, but somewhat a part of the pre-med culture at undergraduate universities. The numbers have to get weeded down. Most people who start pre-med don't make it half way, much less making it all the way to the application process where it gets weeded down even further. So they've probably just seen a bunch of gung-ho pre-meds flame out quickly.

But that's life, everyone brings their experiences to the table at all times. Which is a good reason why you shouldn't totally rely on other people for these types of things. Advisors are very hit or miss. Its a main reason why this site is so helpful.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just an update on the guy in my research group. He eventually got a c+ in OChem I believe, and he just got an II to Duke.... Talk about sticking it to the man if he is accepted..

 

[wholeheartedly]

Sounds like some kind of reverse psychology trying to get you to prove him wrong. I like thinking of it as "challenge accepted" like stated above. Be polite, heed his advice, but it sounds like he is signing off to let you take stuff you were planning on taking.

 

[ranob]

Sounds like some kind of reverse psychology trying to get you to prove him wrong. I like thinking of it as "challenge accepted" like stated above. Be polite, heed his advice, but it sounds like he is signing off to let you take stuff you were planning on taking.

Yes, he's willing to sign off on it at least. Unfortunately, the same is not true of the other "paternalistic" (his words, not mine) deans, directors, department chairs, etc; those hypocrites use every tactic in the book (and many outside the book too) to prevent students from repeating their "mistake" of taking too many advanced science/engineering courses, back when they were undergraduates. In this sense, I've found this cultural attitude of underestimating undergraduates and betting against them can prove quite annoying.

From my undergrad experience, I feel like it's pretty common. Undergrad advisors and profs see a constant stream of hopeful pre-meds that end up not being able to handle the course load. Use it as motivation to not make yourself another statistic.

Its annoying, but somewhat a part of the pre-med culture at undergraduate universities. The numbers have to get weeded down. Most people who start pre-med don't make it half way, much less making it all the way to the application process where it gets weeded down even further. So they've probably just seen a bunch of gung-ho pre-meds flame out quickly.

Good to know. I figured it was a cultural thing.

What's your schedule? Maybe they are right. I would advise against too many credits or too many hard science courses at the same time. It may catch up with you eventually.

How can you possibly think I'm going to start failing courses given my track record? I don't understand.

Edit:

You're a sophomore undergrad? What're they worried about, you stacking sophomore ochem on top of a couple labs or something?

The courses are higher level than that. Think senior elective/intro graduate level.

 

[efle]

Yes, he's willing to sign off on it at least. Unfortunately, the same is not true of the other "paternalistic" (his words, not mine) deans, directors, department chairs, etc; those hypocrites use every tactic in the book (and many outside the book too) to prevent students from repeating their "mistake" of taking too many advanced science/engineering courses, back when they were undergraduates. In this sense, I've found this cultural attitude of underestimating undergraduates and betting against them can prove quite annoying.



Good to know. I figured it was a cultural thing.


How can you possibly think I'm going to start failing courses given my track record? I don't understand.

You're a sophomore undergrad? What're they worried about, you stacking sophomore ochem on top of a couple labs or something?

 

[bc65]

How can you possibly think I'm going to start failing courses given my track record? I don't understand.

Your original post referred to "your track record". Now you again refer to your "track record". Somehow, I'm supposed to know what your "track record" is. Obviously, you're not here for advice, just to brag, although without even putting out any details. So I'm not going to address this post to you.
But for others who might be reading this, keep this in mind: Almost everyone who gets into med school has great grades. Yet, 50% of all med school school MS1's, even at the top schools, end up in the bottom half of the class. 90% don't make it into the top 10%. And if you do make it into the top 10%, and do your residency in derm, ortho, or plastics, guess what? 10%-20% of those specialists fail their boards. So, that's how someone with a great "track record" can fail.

Hey OP, instead of coming here to an anonymous forum to try to get strangers give you the praise you so desperately crave, why not do something really challenging, like, get a date, so a real live person can give you some attention.

 

[wasteofspace323]

Your original post referred to "your track record". Now you again refer to your "track record". Somehow, I'm supposed to know what your "track record" is. Obviously, you're not here for advice, just to brag, although without even putting out any details. So I'm not going to address this post to you.
But for others who might be reading this, keep this in mind: Almost everyone who gets into med school has great grades. Yet, 50% of all med school school MS1's, even at the top schools, end up in the bottom half of the class. 90% don't make it into the top 10%. And if you do make it into the top 10%, and do your residency in derm, ortho, or plastics, guess what? 10%-20% of those specialists fail their boards. So, that's how someone with a great "track record" can fail.

Hey OP, instead of coming here to an anonymous forum to try to get strangers give you the praise you so desperately crave, why not do something really challenging, like, get a date, so a real live person can give you some attention.

Know what they call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his medical school class? Doctor
Know what they call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his pre-med major in undergrad class? Janitor

 

[ranob]

Your original post referred to "your track record". Now you again refer to your "track record". Somehow, I'm supposed to know what your "track record" is. Obviously, you're not here for advice, just to brag, although without even putting out any details. So I'm not going to address this post to you. Hey OP, instead of coming here to an anonymous forum to try to get strangers give you the praise you so desperately crave, why not do something really challenging, like, get a date, so a real live person can give you some attention.

Sure thing bud

Almost everyone who gets into med school has great grades. Yet, 50% of all med school school MS1's, even at the top schools, end up in the bottom half of the class. 90% don't make it into the top 10%. And if you do make it into the top 10%, and do your residency in derm, ortho, or plastics, guess what? 10%-20% of those specialists fail their boards. So, that's how someone with a great "track record" can fail.

Nice try. Not all MS1's are equal, not all specialists are equal, etc. You're acting like it's a game of chance when it quite obviously is based on effort. Those with good track records who put in the effort succeed while those with bad track records fail. Sounds like your track record leaves much to be desired but you'd like to believe that you're just as good as the derm/ortho/plastics residents at top med schools. Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

Know what they call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his medical school class? Doctor
Know what they call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his pre-med major in undergrad class? John Gurdon

Fixed that for you

 

[medic86]

Sure thing bud


Nice try. Not all MS1's are equal, not all specialists are equal, etc. You're acting like it's a game of chance when it quite obviously is based on effort. Those with good track records who put in the effort succeed while those with bad track records fail. Sounds like your track record leaves much to be desired but you'd like to believe that you're just as good as the derm/ortho/plastics residents at top med schools. Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

I lol'd.

 

[operaman]

I'm going to have to side with the advisor in this case, and I say that as someone with a history of defying expectations. The reality is that most students with your course load would struggle and possibly even hurt their chances for med school. Consider the strong possibility that your advisor is truly looking out for your best interest even if you are one of the gifted few who can do it. It doesn't make him a bad advisor, it just means you were a very lucky sperm.

 

[GiveMeThatMD]

Just say "challenge accepted." Only you know you.

Most of my advisors wasn't helpful at all (I switched a few times because my advisor went on sabbatical one semester, then retired). I planned everything "by myself" by talking with older students and other bio professors. The chair of the premed committee at my school was naturally super helpful.

This guy gets it. Nothing tastes better than your enemy's tears.

 

[bc65]

. Sounds like your track record leaves much to be desired but you'd like to believe that you're just as good as the derm/ortho/plastics residents at top med schools. Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

Thanks for the advice, pre-med. If I ever have to redo medical school, residency, fellowships, and my career all over again, I'll be sure to look you up and ask you for advice. And when I find you, you don't have to ask, because I will want fries with that.

 

[efle]

@ranob are you not going to share with us what the course load was? whether your adviser is behaving oddly here or not depends a lot on that

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thanks for the advice, pre-med. If I ever have to redo medical school, residency, fellowships, and my career all over again, I'll be sure to look you up and ask you for advice. And when I find you, you don't have to ask, because I will want fries with that.

OP was being abrasive, yes, but I feel like this was a little uncalled for

 

[WingedOx]

Seriously @ranob, you basically come in here every semester or so with the same basic post. You complain about your advisor then get upset about "unsolicited advice." I'm not sure how or why you're expecting different responses each time.

Quite honestly, if your goal is to actually get into med school, then perhaps you need to take a step back and actually listen to the sincere advice that the experienced posters here are giving you, because taking extra upper-level classes are in no way going to help your application, regardless of what you score in them.

And I ask this sincerely, are you on the spectrum? because your posts really give off that vibe.

 

[Meeehai]

Thanks for the advice, pre-med. If I ever have to redo medical school, residency, fellowships, and my career all over again, I'll be sure to look you up and ask you for advice. And when I find you, you don't have to ask, because I will want fries with that.

Oh.

SPICY

 

[ranob]

I'm going to have to side with the advisor in this case, and I say that as someone with a history of defying expectations. The reality is that most students with your course load would struggle and possibly even hurt their chances for med school. Consider the strong possibility that your advisor is truly looking out for your best interest even if you are one of the gifted few who can do it. It doesn't make him a bad advisor, it just means you were a very lucky sperm.

Sounds like you're a fan of underestimating undergraduates and giving out ultra-conservative advice. Seems like most premeds in this thread would rather their advisers and professors didn't underestimate their capabilities.

Thanks for the advice, pre-med. If I ever have to redo medical school, residency, fellowships, and my career all over again, I'll be sure to look you up and ask you for advice. And when I find you, you don't have to ask, because I will want fries with that.

Real witty. Putting that med school training to good use I see.

@ranob are you not going to share with us what the course load was? whether your adviser is behaving oddly here or not depends a lot on that

This thread isn't really meant to be so much about my adviser in particular; it's more an opportunity for premeds to share if they had any experiences with professors that doubted their capabilities and the circumstances surrounding this doubt. And to discuss the culture of underestimating undergraduates in general.

Seriously @ranob, you basically come in here every semester or so with the same basic post. You complain about your advisor then get upset about "unsolicited advice." I'm not sure how or why you're expecting different responses each time.

Don't like my threads? Then don't read them. No one's forcing you to. I am quite satisfied with the responses they garner.

Quite honestly, if your goal is to actually get into med school, then perhaps you need to take a step back and actually listen to the sincere advice that the experienced posters here are giving you, because taking extra upper-level classes are in no way going to help your application, regardless of what you score in them.

And I ask this sincerely, are you on the spectrum? because your posts really give off that vibe.

People can have multiple goals. Getting into medical school is not mutually exclusive with taking extra upper-level classes. You acknowledge that I'm not looking for unsolicited advice, but then proceed to give it anyways? I don't doubt that it's sincere, but it doesn't belong in this thread - there are plenty of other threads for that. Also, I'm guessing you've never cracked open a copy of the DSM-5, because if you had it would be pretty clear that no one in this thread is on the spectrum. Troll.

 

[Rowlander]

this is why I used ratemyprofessor from the first day

 

[medic86]

OP was being abrasive, yes, but I feel like this was a little uncalled for

I disagree.

This guy is major a tool. Totally called for.

 

[Apramana]

On a somewhat related note, the same cautious approach seems to be favored when applying for residency:

"In some of the more competitive fields there really are no safeties and the range is very tight.
...
I think the statistical view, that someone in the middle of each list "ought" to match somewhere is great conceptually, but I think some of us have seen it not pan out more than a few times-- and I'm betting telling someone they statistically beat the odds won't be much solace. I'm not sure "playing the odds" is always such a good idea with something as important as your career, when the cost of doing one more interview, in the greater scheme of things, isn't that prohibitive."

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...u-did-an-away-rotation.1166757/#post-17046450

Thanks to all those who provided their feedback.

I hope everyone reading this is having a wonderful day.

 

[operaman]

Sounds like you're a fan of underestimating undergraduates and giving out ultra-conservative advice. Seems like most premeds in this thread would rather their advisers and professors didn't underestimate their capabilities.


Real witty. Putting that med school training to good use I see.


This thread isn't really meant to be so much about my adviser in particular; it's more an opportunity for premeds to share if they had any experiences with professors that doubted their capabilities and the circumstances surrounding this doubt. And to discuss the culture of underestimating undergraduates in general.



Don't like my threads? Then don't read them. No one's forcing you to. I am quite satisfied with the responses they garner.



People can have multiple goals. Getting into medical school is not mutually exclusive with taking extra upper-level classes. You acknowledge that I'm not looking for unsolicited advice, but then proceed to give it anyways? I don't doubt that it's sincere, but it doesn't belong in this thread - there are plenty of other threads for that. Also, I'm guessing you've never cracked open a copy of the DSM-5, because if you had it would be pretty clear that no one in this thread is on the spectrum. Troll.

The immaturity is strong with this one, I'm afraid. From an ethical standpoint, I would nearly always give conservative advice simply because it would maximize their chances of success. I'm perfectly happy when someone defies my advice and succeeds, but would feel terrible if someone followed my advice and failed.

I think you're taking the advice far more personally than it was intended. This is understandable as young people are often insecure in their abilities and adopt a very adolescent mentality of needing to prove their abilities at every turn. This is ok and a normal part of growing up, but do be open to the possibility that well intentioned advice is less about impugning your abilities and more about trying to set you up for success. The mature response for a gifted young person like yourself would be to thank them for their advice and then calmly and quietly do what you know your extraordinary gifts will allow you to do. I promise you that they will celebrate your successes with you in the end.

 

[efle]

Wait a minute I know this poster...back in summer he told me he completed a masters degree in 3 years at a Top 20 with a 4.00 GPA lol but really at that point he had just finished freshman year??

Anyway OP just give the guy a nice mental "F you" and carry on. As long as he agreed to approve you there's no problem here. Doubters gonna doubt you, ignore them

 

[22031 Alum]

Wait a minute I know this poster...back in summer he told me he completed a masters degree in 3 years at a Top 20 with a 4.00 GPA lol but really at that point he had just finished freshman year??

OP has also posted about working under an assumed name, and the "bureaucrats" at his school who are determined to see him fail. Either he's a bored kid trolling, or someone who isn't getting the professional help he needs. I hope it's the former.

 

[jakeyk]

This is insane, and this is blatant trolling. Not everyone will like you, period.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I disagree.

This guy is major a tool. Totally called for.

Not arguing he's not a tool (based on basically all his posts), but still doesn't mean we should flip out on him. I'll concede the point though, as his posts can definitely rub people the wrong way, and given his most recent posts, my sympathy and patience are rapidly waning.

 

[WingedOx]

OP has also posted about working under an assumed name, and the "bureaucrats" at his school who are determined to see him fail. Either he's a bored kid trolling, or someone who isn't getting the professional help he needs. I hope it's the former.

Honestly, we can all think back and remember "that kid" from college.

 

[Lawpy]

Wait a minute I know this poster...back in summer he told me he completed a masters degree in 3 years at a Top 20 with a 4.00 GPA lol but really at that point he had just finished freshman year??

Anyway OP just give the guy a nice mental "F you" and carry on. As long as he agreed to approve you there's no problem here. Doubters gonna doubt you, ignore them

OP has also posted about working under an assumed name, and the "bureaucrats" at his school who are determined to see him fail. Either he's a bored kid trolling, or someone who isn't getting the professional help he needs. I hope it's the former.

So the plot thickens...

 

[ranob]

Requesting a moderator lock this thread. Any posts after this one will be reported. Thank you.

Edit: @wasteofspace323 "When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men, no matter who they are." Saya and Fuminori are savages.

 

[625233]

Haters gonna hate.

 

[625233]

Requesting a moderator lock this thread. Any posts after this one will be reported. Thank you.