Program attempting to dismiss me

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TorqueConversion said:
So I have had very stupid incidents with this program in the past. I have good academics, no issues with patients or medical personnel, and am able to do what is asked of me. The administration on the other hand has been hurling fire at me since the end of my first didactic year. 2 students decided to accuse me of sexual harassment and after a lengthy investigation over entirely hearsay, I was found not guilty. The chairperson wanted to meet me shortly on a whim but I was unable to attend that meeting with her - she replied that I was unprofessional in the way I responded to her request, claiming I was unprofessional and would have to see the academic review committee to discuss my unprofessionalism. About a week before I was set to appear at this meeting, I realized that I was going be one question short of receiving honors for cardiology. I reached out to the Professor and discussed 2 questions with her - she relayed this to the chairperson. The meeting that was supposed to be about the supposed unprofessionalism regarding communication over email 3 months ago was now focused on how my grade appeal from one week ago. At a much later point in time during my second year of didactic, I missed a single class. A SINGLE CLASS, (attendance is mandatory- I was yet to miss anything) and they came up with a whole bunch of issues regarding professionalism that they wrote in a report and subsequently put me on probation for behavioral reasons. I reached out to the dean of campus life and was eventually reinstated from probation a few months later. I finished one clinical rotation and everything went superbly. My second clinical rotation is an unstructured disaster and I have had almost no interactions with the preceptor. During my third week I have a 24+ hour call and I decide to go to sleep for a few hours - this is within school policy. The preceptor hears word that I was sleeping 'excessively' and calls me to his office. I apologize and tell him its the school policy that I get some sleep and from there I will stay up for the rest of the shift. He gets an unrelated phone call during the meeting and abruptly tells me that I am to go home from the rotation. As per policy, I called the school and told them that I was released earlier than expected from the shift. The following day, I am failed for the rotation because of the single-day of sleeping and a rather benign situation regarding a bedside procedure that I had almost no part in that was inaccurately reported to the program by the preceptor. They put me on suspension and are considering dismissing me.
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Theres got to be more to this story
 
You are obviously greatly downplaying your transgressions. Med schools have a lot vested in you and typically want to avoid expelling students it at all possible. I am guessing there is more to the sexual harassment story than you are letting on, and the school has been out to get you since then.

Typically, when an administrator wants to assassinate someone in medicine they will follow a very systematic approach to do so:
1. Look for any evidence of unprofessionalism. For doctors, this would be late or missing documentation, making patients wait a long time to be seen, showing up to work late, etc. For med students, showing up late is common. You were on thin ice after the sexual harassment thing. You knew you couldn't afford to be late even once, but sounds like you did it multiple times.
2. Look for evidence of inappropriate sexual behavior with patients. If none exists, look for inappropriate sexual behavior with peers (you already checked this one off). If none exists, look for inappropriate sexual behavior outside of work (strip clubs, hookers, etc.)
3. Look for alcohol or substance abuse issues. You basically can't afford to drink in public or at the very least around peers anymore. Someone smells alcohol on you, you're done.

Once they've got some dirt on you, they'll typically put you on probation and have someone you don't normally work with supervise you. By this point, you are typically done and they are just crossing off their check boxes to protect themselves legally in firing you by saying they had a third party evaluate you who agreed with them.

For whatever reason, you triggered the assassination algorithm and it sounds like you are well towards the end of it at this point. You may not be done, but you can't afford anything other than absolutely perfect behavior at this point. Nevermind that your peers are staying up to 3AM drunk and come in an hour late stinking like booze and hungover and watch porn on their smartphones during rounds. Sure maybe they can get away with it. Don't let that influence your behavior.
 
Lessons for SDNers:

#1) when you get onto radar, you don't get off.

#2) when a Chair or, in fact, any other Faculty says "you need to come see me", you go see him/her.

#3) Mandatory lecture attendance means
A) Mandatory
B) Optional
C) Missing a required class is OK, because it's my first incident
D) None of the above

#4) If you're going to appeal a grade, do it VERY nicely, and don't act like a pre-med.

#5) Always remember that emails are forever, and that people on the other side of the screen can't read your emotions when you hit SEND.

#6) When you're on probation, all eyes are on you.

#7) It takes work to actually get kicked off of a rotation

#8) When you see an iceberg, you're only seeing some 10% of it.

#9) It far more common to get dismissed after a pattern of misbehavior, rather than a single incident.
 
Just saw this:

TorqueConversion said:
I went in with a few residents and the attending to do a bedside BAL in the ICU. I was told to hold to anchor the ET tube by the attending, something I had never heard of before. After about 5 minutes, I switch hands. 10 minutes pass, nothing goes wrong, and the attending tells me to switch hands to the prior position. I told him the position I was previously held my hand in before was very uncomfortable and I am still maintaining the anchoring as he mentioned. Somehow this word got to my preceptor (who I have had almost not contact with during this rotation) and they wrote to my program that they are dismissing me from the rotation because I compromised a patient's airway. The administration put me on suspension and is considering dismissing me from the program. The meeting I held with program told me that this incident shows that I am insubordinate and lack judgment - I am currently in limbo what to do if I end up getting expelled and what do with 100s of thousands dollars in student loans debt.
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This happened because you were already deep in the assassination algorithm. The attending undoubtedly had been briefed that you were on thin ice and to report any little last thing that you did wrong. You were insubordinate to your attending physician and he put it in writing that your were insubordinate and as a result compromised a patient's airway. They got what they needed on you. Your only option now is to show extreme remorse; however, I think the odds of this working is low. They went through all this trouble for a reason. And it wasn't because you were late a few times. Would be interested to know the story behind the sexual harassment or whatever else it was you did to trigger this.
 
Goro said:
Lessons for SDNers:

#1) when you get onto radar, you don't get off.

#2) when a Chair or, in fact, any other Faculty says "you need to come see me", you go see him/her.

#3) Mandatory lecture attendance means
A) Mandatory
B) Optional
C) Missing a required class is OK, because it's my first incident
D) None of the above

#4) If you're going to appeal a grade, do it VERY nicely, and don't act like a pre-med.

#5) Always remember that emails are forever, and that people on the other side of the screen can't read your emotions when you hit SEND.

#6) When you're on probation, all eyes are on you.

#7) It takes work to actually get kicked off of a rotation

#8) When you see an iceberg, you're only seeing some 10% of it.

#9) It far more common to get dismissed after a pattern of misbehavior, rather than a single incident.
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One other thing I will add, it's a lot easier to be forgiven when you already have a good relationship with someone. In med school, my family med preceptors loved me so much, I could do no wrong. Come it late? No biggie? Need to leave early, sure enjoy the weather! Can't finish notes because you need to study? Don't worry about it!

However, on my OB/Gyn rotation, I was 5 minutes late for the orientation meeting with the preceptor. Apparently she expected me to personally apologize afterwards. I did not because I didn't want to waste her time and I thought it would make me appear whiny to try and make an excuse. Anyway, she held that against and was out to get me for the rest of the rotation (I was told this by the coordinator at the end of the rotation). She didn't remember anybody else from that first meeting I'm sure, but she remembered ME. Eyes were on me constantly, and all I could do was mess up at everything. It was miserable, and I ended up with a barely passing grade and a note in my dean's letter that said she was conflicted about letting me pass. And this was with perfect behavior and trying as hard as I could on my part. All for 5 stinking extra minutes of traffic due to weather on the first day.

OP's first interaction with the administration early on was not one, but two accusations of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment/assault is very difficult to prove due to the fact that the nature of the crime typically is unwitnessed and has a lack of evidence to prove guilt ("hearsay" as OP calls it). It's not surprising that a guilty person would be found not guilty, and it's not surprising that the accusations would tarnish this person forever in the eyes of the administration. He couldn't have made a worse first impression. Even if he was innocent, he should have realized the precarious situation it put him in (fairly or not).
 
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Why on earth when your superior asked you to show up to a meeting did you decide not to? Even if you couldn’t make that time for whatever reason (it would have to be a REALLY good one) why wouldn’t you just try to discuss an alternative time? That just reeks of stupidity

Definitely more to this story
 
Regardless of what the full or real story is, it seems like this is probably way above what anyone on SDN can tell you. Honestly, it sounds like a combo of bad errors in judgment on your part and a target placed on your back as a result, and slip ups after that were magnified tenfold. If it's as serious as it sounds, too many things have happened and we're only in on a piece of the story from one party. I don't know what other avenues exist through your school, but you might want to consult a lawyer instead of SDN if you're considering fighting this any further.
 
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TorqueConversion said:
To address a few of the points:
1) It was a single incident of sexual harassment - one girl was egging the other girl on to make a report about a very immature thing that happened during a physical exam- the case was dropped because it illegitimate on several fronts but everything had to be investigated anyway per policy.
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Unless there was another incident you aren't telling us about (which would make sense as sexual issues are often used to get someone once they have been targeted), I still really think this is the source of your issues. Typically, if it really was a frivolous little thing, these complaints are swept under the rug because no one in admin wants the fuss that comes with them. Hell, even legitimate serious assaults are even swept under the rug sometimes (unfortunately). For this thing to actually be drawn out into a lengthy investigation suggests it was much more serious than you are implying (or else you were already on their radar). Still not clear if you actually did anything wrong or if the girl was just making up something. Were you doing exams on each other or was this an actual patient?
 
Your problem is likely not what you did, but how you did it / approached it. If the attending asked you to switch hands, there was probably a clinical reason why they wanted that done. Your answer appears to have been "No, it was too uncomfortable that way, I'll stay like this, it's fine". You may not think this is what you said, but I bet it's what the attending heard. And although these issues may be the ones called out, there may be many more that everyone knows about but were not made into a big deal.

I'm 20+ years into my career. When my chair says they need to meet with me, everything else stops. Again, your answer was probably heard as "I'm too busy now, I'll get back to you later".
 
aProgDirector said:
Your problem is likely not what you did, but how you did it / approached it. If the attending asked you to switch hands, there was probably a clinical reason why they wanted that done. Your answer appears to have been "No, it was too uncomfortable that way, I'll stay like this, it's fine". You may not think this is what you said, but I bet it's what the attending heard. And although these issues may be the ones called out, there may be many more that everyone knows about but were not made into a big deal.

I'm 20+ years into my career. When my chair says they need to meet with me, everything else stops. Again, your answer was probably heard as "I'm too busy now, I'll get back to you later".
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This too, 100%. When I was on surgery I was first assist on a loong case that took a bad turn. The attending was frantic and told me to retract in an awkward position without letting go for over an hour. Yeah, it was super uncomfortable, but I wasn't gonna tell him "sorry no, can't do that man it's uncomfortable". You gotta take the punches in stride as a med student until you get to residency, and even if something isn't to your liking you have to at least try to do what they ask. Part of the game is showing you're a team player. Talking back isn't an option
 
1) It was a single incident of sexual harassment - one girl was egging the other girl on to make a report about a very immature thing that happened during a physical exam- the case was dropped because it illegitimate on several fronts but everything had to be investigated anyway per policy.

Your own words: 2 students decided to accuse me of sexual harassment.

That says to me that you were accused of harassing two different people, not that two people accused you of a single incident.

Now I agree that the charges were dropped, but as atomi has mentioned, this is the type of thing that gets students onto our radar.

2) There weren't any latenesses. Just a single absence for a class that wasn't previously scheduled.
Lateness wasn't the issue. Scheduled or not, did you know about this class? Your fellow students must have.


3) I was taken off probation
But you got put onto probation for behavior, NOT academic. This is NOT common for medical students, at least at my school.

4) It did not take work to get kicked of the rotation. I was not even given a meeting to discuss anything - just sent home for sleeping. The situation was then misreported to the faculty (by someone not directly involved in the situation), and didn't even make sense on a technical level what my role was and how I deviated from it.

Medical students do NOT get routinely kicked off rotations. That's why I used the phrase "it wakes work to..."

This is so out of the ordinary that we here suspect something else was going on. And again, by your own words, it wasn't just the sleeping, but also the incident in surgery.

5) I have shown plenty of remorse and have done my best to keep my head down and be cooperative.
This is about the only thing you can do to salvage your medical career. But a high degree of self-awareness is required here as well.

6) I initially replied that I was unable to make it to the meeting, but I was in a rush and didn't elaborate when I would make the next one. She immediately responded that professionalism was an issue that had to be explored at a council meeting before I had time to make it back to my apartment.
This is unclear. You were directed to come to a meeting, yet didn't. Why?
 
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Goro said:
6) I initially replied that I was unable to make it to the meeting, but I was in a rush and didn't elaborate when I would make the next one. She immediately responded that professionalism was an issue that had to be explored at a council meeting before I had time to make it back to my apartment.
This is unclear. You were directed to come to a meeting, yet didn't. Why?
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Agree. This is really weird. Why did OP choose to go back to apartment instead of keep meeting with dean? If OP had to miss meeting with dean to go to ED because girlfriend was in a car wreck, that’s one thing. But the OP went home instead. Wtf?
 
TorqueConversion said:
very immature thing that happened during a physical exam
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What exactly happened during a physical exam that got someone even thinking they needed to report it as sexual harassment? And was this during a class PE with standardized patients? or were you practicing PEs on each other? or you were on rotations with another student and they were uncomfortable with how you did a PE on a real patient?

OP, you seem to have a major issue with being able to communicate properly. The sleeping incidence, for example: did you tell anyone you were going to sleep per school policy? Or they just found you asleep in a room somewhere? Not everyone reads the school handbook or even looks at it so you have to be very clear about what you're doing and why you're doing it. On top of that, I wouldn't care if the school handbook says I could sleep 12 hours out of a 24 hour shift. I would do my damnedest to stay awake and, if I couldn't, I'd tell someone that I'm going to snooze for a few minutes (not a few hours) and be very explicit that I need to do so in order that I don't accidentally kill a patient due to sleepiness.

As an aside, it looks like you didn't actually asked for advice in your original post. You merely stated [what you believed to be] the facts and we all just jumped in with our opinions.
 
You aren’t busy when the dean wants to meet with you, you just aren’t. You email whoever else is expecting you somewhere and let them know you apologize but you have been told you have dean meeting.

And don’t sexually harass your classmates
 
This is a very common reaction in real life when a student or resident or probably an attending is put under the microscope. Whatever the initial issue ie being accused of a serious act of sexual harassment, regardless of you were found innocent, you are now under the microscope and every little deviation you make will be used against you. In isolation SOME of what you mentioned wasn’t that bad. But there are also things that make no sense? Ie the incident with sleeping on a 24 hr call. If it really happened the way you say I cannot for the life of me understand what they would have against you.

Skipping out on a meeting for an unknown (yet really important reason) seems odd and again couldn’t understand what couldn’t be rescheduled or changed to accommodate the meeting. And if not being very sorry about missing and requesting to rechedule which you didn’t do again for an unknown reason. You seem very self righteous and this is definitely adding to your problem.
 
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As a teaching moment, we Faculty can understand students being concerned about grades, especially when it's an H/P/F or A/B/C/F system and you're at the cusp of a grade, and worried about making AOA.

But there's a way to ask about grades, and I've seen students ask in ways that are too reminiscent of grade grubbing pre-meds. (ie, I need a 90 to make Honors and and exam II I got an 89. Is there any way I can make up some points???)

For a Faculty member to complain about inquiring about grades does raise an eyebrow.
 
I am basically looking for advice. Everything they have written so far about my infractions has been vague and just carrying on into the next thing. No policies in the handbook have been violated to the point of dismissal, but if someone in admin decides to proceed down that avenue on their own prerogative for 'behavioral' reasons - what is some advice you all can give?
 
Even with your one-sided story, your school already has a very good case for dismissing you. You are done for dude. 2 counts of sexual harassment, series of unprofessional misconducts, dismissal from rotation. People were dimissed for less


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
TorqueConversion said:
I am basically looking for advice. Everything they have written so far about my infractions has been vague and just carrying on into the next thing. No policies in the handbook have been violated to the point of dismissal, but if someone in admin decides to proceed down that avenue on their own prerogative for 'behavioral' reasons - what is some advice you all can give?
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The advice has already been given. Show extreme remorse, apologize profusely for everything, accept responsibility for everything even if you think you didn’t do anything wrong. Get down on your hands and knees and beg.

Still waiting to hear what was at your apartment that was more important than meeting with the dean.
 
You don't do immature things that people construe as sexual harassment during physical exams. You don't blow off mandatory classes or meetings with the dean. You don't go sleep whenever you feel like it while on call (you wait to be told to go rest or if you can't help yourself you can ask to go sleep). You don't tell doctors what position you want to hold an airway in when they tell you how they want it done. Seems like the school has been pretty reasonable with what they have allowed before dismissing you.
 
TorqueConversion said:
Everything they have written so far about my infractions has been vague
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You must be following suit.

If you want advice, you need to give a few more details than "the sexual harassment accusation was hearsay and it was illegitimate." As mentioned above, there's not much more advice that anyone here can give without more information from you.
 
atomi said:
The advice has already been given. Show extreme remorse, apologize profusely for everything, accept responsibility for everything even if you think you didn’t do anything wrong. Get down on your hands and knees and beg.

Still waiting to hear what was at your apartment that was more important than meeting with the dean.
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dpmd said:
You don't do immature things that people construe as sexual harassment during physical exams. You don't blow off mandatory classes or meetings with the dean. You don't go sleep whenever you feel like it while on call (you wait to be told to go rest or if you can't help yourself you can ask to go sleep). You don't tell doctors what position you want to hold an airway in when they tell you how they want it done. Seems like the school has been pretty reasonable with what they have allowed before dismissing you.
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In addition to the wise advice above, you have to be 100% aware that multiple eyeballs are on you, not merely waiting but actually expecting you to screw up. You need to give 110% not to give them any reason reason to stick the knife in you. So, this will require a lot of self-awareness and self-discipline. Based upon your posts here, the lack of the former is what concerns me more than the deficits in the latter.

And when people say "Jump!" your ONLY correct answer will be "How high?"

Counseling can never hurt.
 
At this point you have one card in your hand you can play.

Extreme remorse.

Why? Because you dun goofed bro. The only recourse you have is eliciting pity. Pity gets people through stuff like this, nothing else can get them “on your team.”

Thats the best strategy for you from my point of view.
 
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mistafab said:
At this point you have one card in your hand you can play.

Extreme remorse.
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For OP's sake, lets hope he plays it. But I doubt it. He has come here trying to get people to agree with him that everything he did was no big deal. Makes me think he's going to try to go the route of arguing that he technically didn't do anything wrong and he's a victim of an administrator out to get him then threaten to sue when it doesn't go his way. Good luck if you chose that route.
 
Goro said:
Lessons for SDNers:

#1) when you get onto radar, you don't get off.

#2) when a Chair or, in fact, any other Faculty says "you need to come see me", you go see him/her.

#3) Mandatory lecture attendance means
A) Mandatory
B) Optional
C) Missing a required class is OK, because it's my first incident
D) None of the above

#4) If you're going to appeal a grade, do it VERY nicely, and don't act like a pre-med.

#5) Always remember that emails are forever, and that people on the other side of the screen can't read your emotions when you hit SEND.

#6) When you're on probation, all eyes are on you.

#7) It takes work to actually get kicked off of a rotation

#8) When you see an iceberg, you're only seeing some 10% of it.

#9) It far more common to get dismissed after a pattern of misbehavior, rather than a single incident.
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Goro has a talent for condensing the obvious for the oblivious.
 
Sexual harassment suits cost twice as much to defend as med mal suits. Any residency will see this as a bright red waving flag. Get some training on sexual harassment and act like you are under the microscope from here on. Good luck
 
Goro said:
Lessons for SDNers:

#1) when you get onto radar, you don't get off.
Click to expand...
I will add a caveat to this...sometimes, if the initial event actually truly was a fluke rather than just "a slightly more prominent example of the behavior that low-level rubs people wrong on a constant basis," then sometimes you fall off the radar. Maybe someday I will tell SDN the story of how I got onto the Deans' radar early in M1 (was even placed on probation for professionalism, but fortunately in a way that doees not remain on the transcript in any way)...but suffice it to say that I very much ended up NOT on the radar by the end of preclinicals due to the very very good relationships I developed with my classmates, as well as with faculty. Between my grades, my extracurricular involvements, my constant efforts to help out classmates, and the fact that I never had another professionalism issue (and in fact was anonymously nominated by a classmate as an exceptional classmate), even the dean who initially got off on the wrong foot with me and put me on the sh¡t list to begin with has told me point-blank that I proved it wrong.

If it was truly a fluke that got you onto the radar, you stand a chance of getting off. These SDN stories, including OP's, more often fall into the category of "everyone consistently had an issue with their interactions with you, but it was always subtle and not explicitly against the rules until The Incident that got you on the radar, after which your continued pattern of vague problematic-ness was scrutinized enough to end you."

The only way to fix that is to identify your consistent thread of subtle attitude problems, admit its existence, and then try like hεll to change it.
 
mehc012 said:
I will add a caveat to this...sometimes, if the initial event actually truly was a fluke rather than just "a slightly more prominent example of the behavior that low-level rubs people wrong on a constant basis," then sometimes you fall off the radar. Maybe someday I will tell SDN the story of how I got onto the Deans' radar early in M1 (was even placed on probation for professionalism, but fortunately in a way that doees not remain on the transcript in any way)...but suffice it to say that I very much ended up NOT on the radar by the end of preclinicals due to the very very good relationships I developed with my classmates, as well as with faculty. Between my grades, my extracurricular involvements, my constant efforts to help out classmates, and the fact that I never had another professionalism issue (and in fact was anonymously nominated by a classmate as an exceptional classmate), even the dean who initially got off on the wrong foot with me and put me on the sh¡t list to begin with has told me point-blank that I proved it wrong.

If it was truly a fluke that got you onto the radar, you stand a chance of getting off. These SDN stories, including OP's, more often fall into the category of "everyone consistently had an issue with their interactions with you, but it was always subtle and not explicitly against the rules until The Incident that got you on the radar, after which your continued pattern of vague problematic-ness was scrutinized enough to end you."

The only way to fix that is to identify your consistent thread of subtle attitude problems, admit its existence, and then try like hεll to change it.
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This is a good story and counterpoint to the usual issues that come up. Im glad you shared it. I think the problem is people who get into trouble like this tend to have a habit of pushing the envelope when it comes to expectations of behavior. 5 minutes late to a mandatory thing here, say something inappropriate to a classmate there, make a negative social media post there. All taken invididually do not constitute anything else then a bad day. However it is a constellation and pattern of behavior that finally breaks the camel's back when a clear violation occurs that is observed.
 
sb247 said:
You aren’t busy when the dean wants to meet with you, you just aren’t. You email whoever else is expecting you somewhere and let them know you apologize but you have been told you have dean meeting.

And don’t sexually harass your classmates
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I want to love this, but SDN doesn't have a love button...yet.
 
libertyyne said:
This is a good story and counterpoint to the usual issues that come up. Im glad you shared it. I think the problem is people who get into trouble like this tend to have a habit of pushing the envelope when it comes to expectations of behavior. 5 minutes late to a mandatory thing here, say something inappropriate to a classmate there, make a negative social media post there. All taken individually do not constitute anything else then a bad day. However it is a constellation and pattern of behavior that finally breaks the camel's back when a clear violation occurs that is observed.
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I was going to write a reply to mehc's post, but lib did all my work.

We have found that when it comes to professionalism issues, there are single incidents that are indeed flukes, there are single incidents that aren't flukes, but people get the fear God instilled, and then there are those like the OP, who have a consistent pattern of behavior where one incident by itself isn't lethal, but the collective is. Key to this is the repetitive nature...these people simply can't help themselves, and/or don't learn from their mistakes. My school's single worst student ever fit this bill to a T.
 
Goro said:
I was going to write a reply to mehc's post, but lib did all my work.

We have found that when it comes to professionalism issues, there are single incidents that are indeed flukes, there are single incidents that aren't flukes, but people get the fear God instilled, and then there are those like the OP, who have a consistent pattern of behavior where one incident by itself isn't lethal, but the collective is. Key to this is the repetitive nature...these people simply can't help themselves, and/or don't learn from their mistakes. My school's single worst student ever fit this bill to a T.
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I think there’s also a huge selection bias coming from the fact that only the most oblivious people come here and post a thread detailing multiple professional and ethical and legal shortcomings while still acting like what they did wasn’t a big deal. The people who slip up and get it don’t need any advice; they just fix the issue and keep their noses clean until they finish.

Maybe I’m a hard asrse but I would’ve dismissed the OP much earlier, probably right after the sexual harassment issue. Or the “behavior issues.” Or the insubordination during an airway event. Or blowing off a rotation to sleep. Or...I can’t even anymore.

I think OP’s goose is cooked. Hopefully others will learn from this. There is no assasination algorithm and schools have every incentive to keep people in good standing and avoid the s—tstorm that comes from dismissing a student. There are definite patterns in how students screw up and commonly broken rules, but none of these are particularly hard to avoid- just act like a grown up.

The over arching theme of professionalism is not about nuzzling up to the proverbial line of unacceptable behavior and taking care not to stick your toe across it. It’s a way of conducting yourself that’s so far from the line as to be completely unimpeachable in every way. We make rules and policies because we have to, but in truth we all know what professionalism looks like and we know when someone doesn’t measure up.
 
operaman said:
I think there’s also a huge selection bias coming from the fact that only the most oblivious people come here and post a thread detailing multiple professional and ethical and legal shortcomings while still acting like what they did wasn’t a big deal. The people who slip up and get it don’t need any advice; they just fix the issue and keep their noses clean until they finish.
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I guess that was my intent in posting...to remind us that there ARE these flukes and these people who learn to self-correct, so that we remember that when cases like OP's get posted, those truly are unusual and it's not like these committees and administrators are just constantly nitpicking low-level crap on unsuspecting students.

Sometimes a student really messes up in ways that are truly atypical for them. Sometimes a student messes up and buckles down because they see the danger looming. Sometimes the committee effs up and someone gets on the radar for minor circumstances. In these cases, the students end up fine, because being on the radar just means that people are watching you...it doesn't mean that you're screwed unless that closer look reveals what they're looking for: a pattern of unprofessional behaviors and reactions. Whatever transgressions you get cited for at that point aren't the issue; the issue is that when they looked closely, they still had an issue with your attitude or conduct and then looked for ways to make it official.
 
So many anal people in medicine... the only thing this guy did that im certain theres more to is the sexual harassment report. Med students arent the type to report a student for something like this unless it was really off. The rest of what he did was unprofessional, sure, but shouldn't have even been reported.
 
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Emailing a program that didn't invite me?
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12
Views
1K
DOFOSHO
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Re-admitted Dismissed Medical Students
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2
Views
1K
LucidSplash
LucidSplash
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What's the one thing to do to get into a competitive IM program?
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1
Views
436
FalconSlice
FalconSlice
L
MD M4 going to a community program where residents said “Residents don’t run the hospital, you’re here to learn.” This makes me worried. Should I be?
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11
Views
2K
mistafab
mistafab
M
seeking advice: Appealing a Dismissal
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8
Views
2K
Drjc1977
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