Pros & Cons of LMU-DCOM

[ATPsynthase123]

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I recieved an II today, and would like some info on the school. I have read the website and it looks great on paper, but it would be really helpful if I could get Pros/Cons and criticisms about the program that isn't biased to the program.


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[pstrick]

I've been trying to find similar information. If it were that bad, it would lose accreditation, right?

It's pretty much impossible to say until they graduate their first class. Personally, I believe that it's better to go to Liberty than to not be a doctor.
If I don't get any IIs soon, it's going on my list.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I've been trying to find similar information. If it were that bad, it would lose accreditation, right?

It's pretty much impossible to say until they graduate their first class. Personally, I believe that it's better to go to Liberty than to not be a doctor.
If I don't get any IIs soon, it's going on my list.

LMU-DCOM graduated its first class back in 2010-2011... I think we are thinking about different schools. LUCOM is Liberty and is in upper Va, LMU-DCOM is in middle Tn.


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[Shotapp]

I've been trying to find similar information. If it were that bad, it would lose accreditation, right?

It's pretty much impossible to say until they graduate their first class. Personally, I believe that it's better to go to Liberty than to not be a doctor.
If I don't get any IIs soon, it's going on my list.

Yeah you are definitely mixing the two up. LMU-DCOM is not Liberty...

 

[pstrick]

Right. Mixed the two up.

My bad.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Right. Mixed the two up.

My bad.

I applied to LUCOM too though, not sure how I feel about them though. Apparently they change the curriculum so it doesn't conflict with the Christian ideals. They also have a lot of weird rules though on pre-marital sex and whatnot. I'm not crazy about someone telling me that by having sex with someone I am risking expulsion.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I recieved an II today, and would like some info on the school. I have read the website and it looks great on paper, but it would be really helpful if I could get Pros/Cons and criticisms about the program that isn't biased to the program.


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I had a family member graduate here in 2014 and I recently talked to him briefly about some things. He said that he really enjoyed the school and felt like he was given every opportunity to succeed. He said there was a strong collaborative atmosphere. He did say that some of the rotations aren't that great but that the bad rep on here is a little too dramatic and not super accurate for the majority of rotations. It is really rural so if that isn't your thing you'll hate it. Basically he said that it will give you the same opportunities to succeed as most other DO schools and is mostly up to you with how you do, which basically stands true for almost all DO schools. A DO is a DO come residency time.

From his description and others I've heard it just sounds like an average DO program that isn't any worse or better than most of the others.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I had a family member graduate here in 2014 and I recently talked to him briefly about some things. He said that he really enjoyed the school and felt like he was given every opportunity to succeed. He said there was a strong collaborative atmosphere. He did say that some of the rotations aren't that great but that the bad rep on here is a little too dramatic and not super accurate for the majority of rotations. It is really rural so if that isn't your thing you'll hate it. Basically he said that it will give you the same opportunities to succeed as most other DO schools and is mostly up to you with how you do, which basically stands true for almost all DO schools. A DO is a DO come residency time.

From his description and others I've heard it just sounds like an average DO program that isn't any worse or better than most of the others.

I live in a small rural town, so the location isn't an issue.

I wonder why people rank it so low in terms of program quality? Most of the people I speak to act like the school isn't worth the money spent on the secondary.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I live in a small rural town, so the location isn't an issue.

I wonder why people rank it so low in terms of program quality? Most of the people I speak to act like the school isn't worth the money spent on the secondary.


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A lot of people have issues with how rural it is. Their clinical rotations get a bad rap. My family member did say that it is a downside but can be overcome by being proactive. If it is your only acceptance then I say take it and run and just be prepared to work hard for what you want. Honestly the formula one should take even if they go to an MD school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Interviewed there a while back.

Pros: Faculty are nice and so are students, a lot of elective rotations.

Cons: Seem to push the preceptor based rotations, extremely rural area ( possible difficulties in finding research and finding doctors in certain fields to shadow).

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Interviewed there a while back.

Pros: Faculty are nice and so are students, a lot of elective rotations.

Cons: Seem to push the preceptor based rotations, extremely rural area ( possible difficulties in finding research and finding doctors in certain fields to shadow).

I grew up two hours from there, so the rural area does not bother me.

What do you mean preceptor based rotations?


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[IslandStyle808]

I grew up two hours from there, so the rural area does not bother me.

What do you mean preceptor based rotations?


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Meaning 1 med student (or more) to 1 doctor. There is no residency team.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Meaning 1 med student (or more) to 1 doctor. There is no residency team.

That doesn't sound terrible. What's wrong with that?


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[AnatomyGrey12]

That doesn't sound terrible. What's wrong with that?


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There are pros and cons. The biggest issue is that clinical rotations are to give you exposure to all the basic fields but also to prepare you for intern year. You don't learn that in the preceptor model usually. Some rotations should give you a mix of wards based and preceptor based (Peds, FM, psych, OB) but some should definitely be almost completely wards based (surgery, IM). How are you supposed to perform well in sub-i's if you have never been in that role before? And good sub-I/audition performances are key to matching well as a DO.

 

[Goro]

Well, schools get warned first and put on probation. Baylor recently was on probation, for example.

A school would have to be pretty egregious to lose accreditation. I think CNU is probably pushing that boundary. Ditto Touro-NY and LUCOM.

I've been trying to find similar information. If it were that bad, it would lose accreditation, right?

It's pretty much impossible to say until they graduate their first class. Personally, I believe that it's better to go to Liberty than to not be a doctor.
If I don't get any IIs soon, it's going on my list.

It's glorified shadowing. You're not doing. Preceptor-based rotations generate less well-trained clinicians and as such, cause PDs to question the quality of the students. This gives the entire Osteopathic profession a black eye.

That doesn't sound terrible. What's wrong with that?
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[ATPsynthase123]

Well, schools get warned first and put on probation. Baylor recently was on probation, for example.

A school would have to be pretty egregious to lose accreditation. I think CNU is probably pushing that boundary. Ditto Touro-NY and LUCOM.



It's glorified shadowing. You're not doing. Preceptor-based rotations generate less well-trained clinicians and as such, cause PDs to question the quality of the students. This gives the entire Osteopathic profession a black eye.

So is there a way to work around the "glorified shadowing" part without stepping on any toes? Is there a way to learn clinical applications in a preceptor rotation?


Also, please convince me why I shouldn't submit my secondary to LUCOM. I keep hearing that it is a bad school, but no one seems to know why it is bad. Is it the Jesus thing? 'Cause I grew up in the Bible Belt (95% of the people here are bible thumping Baptists), so sitting through prayer or something is a nuisance at worst.

All the stuff I have heard is hearsay at best.


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[BelieveMeChile]

So is there a way to work around the "glorified shadowing" part without stepping on any toes? Is there a way to learn clinical applications in a preceptor rotation?


Also, please convince me why I shouldn't submit my secondary to LUCOM. I keep hearing that it is a bad school, but no one seems to know why it is bad. Is it the Jesus thing? 'Cause I grew up in the Bible Belt (95% of the people here are bible thumping Baptists), so sitting through prayer or something is a nuisance at worst.

All the stuff I have heard is hearsay at best.


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I think it's the evangelist thing--although this is the first I've heard about LUCOM possibly losing accreditation. That doesn't sound right at all. Could you clarify, Goro?


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[AnatomyGrey12]

So is there a way to work around the "glorified shadowing" part without stepping on any toes? Is there a way to learn clinical applications in a preceptor rotation?


Also, please convince me why I shouldn't submit my secondary to LUCOM. I keep hearing that it is a bad school, but no one seems to know why it is bad. Is it the Jesus thing? 'Cause I grew up in the Bible Belt (95% of the people here are bible thumping Baptists), so sitting through prayer or something is a nuisance at worst.

All the stuff I have heard is hearsay at best.


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Their first class had a high fail rate and a student commit suicide. A pretty bad mark on the school. That isn't even getting into the multiple accounts of poorly written test questions with answers like "guide them to holiness" and other nonsense. I would only apply to LUCOM after they graduate a class and prove that the poor reputation is false.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I think it's the evangelist thing--although this is the first I've heard about LUCOM possibly losing accreditation. That doesn't sound right at all. Could you clarify, Goro?


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With a high first year attrition rate LUCOM is probably in hot water

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Their first class had a high fail rate and a student commit suicide. A pretty bad mark on the school. That isn't even getting into the multiple accounts of poorly written test questions with answers like "guide them to holiness" and other nonsense. I would only apply to LUCOM after they graduate a class and prove that the poor reputation is false.

"Guide them to holiness" lol

You're sh*tting me right?


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[AnatomyGrey12]

"Guide them to holiness" lol

You're sh*tting me right?


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I'm being dead serious. It was in another thread. Does anyone remember what thread that was in?

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I'm being dead serious. It was in another thread. Does anyone remember what thread that was in?

That's ridiculous. Is CUSOM like that too? It is a Christian themed school, but not to the level of LUCOM. I mean they do rotations at Wake forest's teaching hospital, so it can't be that bad right?


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[BelieveMeChile]

I'm being dead serious. It was in another thread. Does anyone remember what thread that was in?

I remember what thread you're talking about, but from what I remember that wasn't the answer. The answer was more like "refer them to their clergy members." The question itself fell under the umbrella of "guidance to holiness" or something like that.


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[Ho0v-man]

LMUDCOM is basically just another run of the mill DO school with a perfectly adequate preclinical education set up in the middle of nowhere so it's cheap to build and a crappy clinical education where they just toss you wherever. They just expanded class size too and that's gotta make it even worse (although this is based purely on speculation).

I've read on these boards somewhere that the research available is better than one would think all things considered.


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[ATPsynthase123]

LMUDCOM is basically just another run of the mill DO school with a perfectly adequate preclinical education set up in the middle of nowhere so it's cheap to build and a crappy clinical education where they just toss you wherever. They just expanded class size too and that's gotta make it even worse (although this is based purely on speculation).

I've read on these boards somewhere that the research available is better than one would think all things considered.


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What DO schools in the south don't just toss you out in years 3 and 4?


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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Their first class had a high fail rate and a student commit suicide. A pretty bad mark on the school. That isn't even getting into the multiple accounts of poorly written test questions with answers like "guide them to holiness" and other nonsense. I would only apply to LUCOM after they graduate a class and prove that the poor reputation is false.

Have they taken boards? Or will we know how they did in the fall?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Have they taken boards? Or will we know how they did in the fall?

I think we will know in the fall.

That's ridiculous. Is CUSOM like that too? It is a Christian themed school, but not to the level of LUCOM. I mean they do rotations at Wake forest's teaching hospital, so it can't be that bad right?


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No CUSOM isn't even close. CUSOM is a great school that killed it on their first round of boards. They also have some pretty good rotations set up for a school that is in its first years

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I think we will know in the fall.



No CUSOM isn't even close. CUSOM is a great school that killed it on their first round of boards. They also have some pretty good rotations set up for a school that is in its first years

The do rotations with Wake forest right?


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[AnatomyGrey12]

The do rotations with Wake forest right?


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I believe so yes. I think you can see all of their sites on their website

 

[Goro]

My advice is to seek out opportunities wherever possible to "do things". Network! And seek the advice of residents in the Osteo and residency forums.

So is there a way to work around the "glorified shadowing" part without stepping on any toes? Is there a way to learn clinical applications in a preceptor rotation?

Do a search in these pages. Also look about halfway through my profile page and I have something written there.
Also, please convince me why I shouldn't submit my secondary to LUCOM. I keep hearing that it is a bad school, but no one seems to know why it is bad. Is it the Jesus thing? 'Cause I grew up in the Bible Belt (95% of the people here are bible thumping Baptists), so sitting through prayer or something is a nuisance at worst.

 

[Ho0v-man]

What DO schools in the south don't just toss you out in years 3 and 4?


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Check out the clinical rotations by school thread in osteo.

Also depends on your definition of "the south", but to answer your question to the best of my ability:

CUSOM, ACOM, NOVA, and GA-PCOM seem to be fine for clinicals.

LMUDCOM, LECOM-B, WCU, and probably all the VCOMs seem lacking.

This is based on what students at the schools have told me in PM here, my own interviews, and the aforementioned rotations thread.

My opinion of VCOM is based on VCOM auburn as that was the one I interviewed at and I don't really know anything about KYCOM or LUCOMs clinical networks.

With some exceptions, these schools are all roughly the same price.


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[MADD!!!]

.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Anyone here know how WesternU is for clinicals? Also if they do preceptor or ward-based rotations?

I believe that is one of their strong points. Some of their rotations are at Arrowhead, which would be awesome. Most of the complaints I've heard about Western have been pre-clinical

 

[ATPsynthase123]

My advice is to seek out opportunities wherever possible to "do things". Network! And seek the advice of residents in the Osteo and residency forums.

So is there a way to work around the "glorified shadowing" part without stepping on any toes? Is there a way to learn clinical applications in a preceptor rotation?

Do a search in these pages. Also look about halfway through my profile page and I have something written there.
Also, please convince me why I shouldn't submit my secondary to LUCOM. I keep hearing that it is a bad school, but no one seems to know why it is bad. Is it the Jesus thing? 'Cause I grew up in the Bible Belt (95% of the people here are bible thumping Baptists), so sitting through prayer or something is a nuisance at worst.

Do you have a link? All I found on your profile was that they aren't accepting of LGBTQ people.


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[Goro]

Search the page for "LUCOM". I'd rather not thrash out this business again. Look at 8/7/14 and 9/1/15 on that page.

Do you have a link? All I found on your profile was that they aren't accepting of LGBTQ people.

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[Alienman52]

If it came down to not being a physician, or going to LUCOM, (or LMU-DCOM for that matter), I'd gladly go to either without thinking twice.


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[BelieveMeChile]

If it came down to not being a physician, or going to LUCOM, (or LMU-DCOM for that matter), I'd gladly go to either without thinking twice.


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Same here, especially as a religious person that has attended a religious university before. I fully believe that LUCOM will produce excellent physicians, they certainly have the financial backing and facilities to do so. Plus, I've heard that they have wards based rotations, which is a huge plus in my opinion. I'm proud that I will be receiving an interview there.


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[Alienman52]

Same here, especially as a religious person that has attended a religious university before. I fully believe that LUCOM will produce excellent physicians, they certainly have the financial backing and facilities to do so. Plus, I've heard that they have wards based rotations, which is a huge plus in my opinion. I'm proud that I will be receiving an interview there.


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Likewise m8, maybe I'll see you at the interview. Mine is 8/25. Good luck to you; if this is my only acceptance then I'll be more than happy to attend!


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[WalkingCorpse]

I went to LMUDCOM. I got in my #1 residency in the specialty I wanted. Was it because of DCOM? No, probably not, it was more likely due to my own initiative. 1st/2nd year are ok, you should have no excuse for failing boards at least. My 3rd year core rotations were atrocious, but I was able to set up some sweet elective rotations which took some effort to do. Would I have gone to a different school if I had to make the choice again? Probably.

Long story short: if you're self motivated and somewhat intelligent you will do fine if you go to DCOM.


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[ATPsynthase123]

Search the page for "LUCOM". I'd rather not thrash out this business again. Look at 8/7/14 and 9/1/15 on that page.

Just read a few threads, if that is the case, then it is a terrible school


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[ATPsynthase123]

Same here, especially as a religious person that has attended a religious university before. I fully believe that LUCOM will produce excellent physicians, they certainly have the financial backing and facilities to do so. Plus, I've heard that they have wards based rotations, which is a huge plus in my opinion. I'm proud that I will be receiving an interview there.


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I would look at some of the posts before you commit. Some of it is atrocious draconian religious behavior, even for me and I grew up in the Bible Belt accustomed to bible thumping baptists.


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[ATPsynthase123]

I went to LMUDCOM. I got in my #1 residency in the specialty I wanted. Was it because of DCOM? No, probably not, it was more likely due to my own initiative. 1st/2nd year are ok, you should have no excuse for failing boards at least. My 3rd year core rotations were atrocious, but I was able to set up some sweet elective rotations which took some effort to do. Would I have gone to a different school if I had to make the choice again? Probably.

Long story short: if you're self motivated and somewhat intelligent you will do fine if you go to DCOM.


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So what can you tell me about years 3 and 4? Like how were they terrible?


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[BelieveMeChile]

Likewise m8, maybe I'll see you at the interview. Mine is 8/25. Good luck to you; if this is my only acceptance then I'll be more than happy to attend!


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Agh! I wish. I'll be interviewing later in the month. I was trying to find other SDNer's to go get dinner with me and my wife after interviews were done. Good luck though!


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[BelieveMeChile]

I would look at some of the posts before you commit. Some of it is atrocious draconian religious behavior, even for me and I grew up in the Bible Belt accustomed to bible thumping baptists.


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I've read the posts! Like I said, I've attended a religious university with arguably stricter standards.


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[ATPsynthase123]

I've read the posts! Like I said, I've attended a religious university with arguably stricter standards.


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If you can agree with the program, then good luck! I'm about to submit my secondary there. It's not my first choice as a school, but it's better than nothing.


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[BelieveMeChile]

If you can agree with the program, then good luck! I'm about to submit my secondary there. It's not my first choice as a school, but it's better than nothing.


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I can see why someone that is not religious would disagree with the school. And I wouldn't advise anyone that is irreligious to attend a school that disagrees with their beliefs. However, I am a religious person and my objective is to become a physician. From what I've heard, I believe Liberty can help me to accomplish that objective--at the very least, I am unwilling to judge a school without seeing it for myself and speaking with the faculty, dean, and students.


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[ATPsynthase123]

I can see why someone that is not religious would disagree with the school. And I wouldn't advise anyone that is irreligious to attend a school that disagrees with their beliefs. However, I am a religious person and my objective is to become a physician. From what I've heard, I believe Liberty can help me to accomplish that objective--at the very least, I am unwilling to judge a school without seeing it for myself and speaking with the faculty, dean, and students.


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I agree with you there. I'm religious in the sense that I attend church and believe in God. It's just that historically and in my experience the church and science, especially medicine, do not mix well since certain aspects of Christianity/Islam/Judaism conflict with major principles in medicine and public health.


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[BelieveMeChile]

I agree with you there. I'm religious in the sense that I attend church and believe in God. It's just that historically and in my experience the church and science, especially medicine, do not mix well since certain aspects of Christianity/Islam/Judaism conflict with major principles in medicine and public health.


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From what I can tell, as an accredited school they're going to be teaching the scientific principles tested on the boards. The problems people have with the school is that they make faith-based interjections and every so often propose faith based questions. These are not detrimental to your understanding of scientific concepts. Like OMM in addition to our medical training, I see the religious aspect as "something extra," not "something else." Of course, if you don't want that "something extra" and find that It may be detrimental to your learning process, then a religious school may not be the place to be for you! Haha.


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[WalkingCorpse]

So what can you tell me about years 3 and 4? Like how were they terrible?


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It was the core rotations (IM, surgery, psych, peds, FM, OBGYN) that were terrible. Preceptor based rotations, as others have pointed out. Glorified shadowing with no real role for a med student most of the time. Multiple preceptors openly complained that our school kept dumping students on them and they weren't getting paid to be preceptors. OBGYN we weren't allowed in on most deliveries because they were private practice patients. A clinical psychologist was in charge of our psychiatry rotation. Your rotation could get cancelled or changed to a different city at the last minute. One student was with an orthopedic surgeon for his general surgery core rotation- not joking about that. But like I said, if you put in effort you can set up great elective rotations affiliated with different schools. It takes work though. The end result is the same. I don't think I was any less prepared on day 1 of my intern year than anyone else, mostly due to how many audition rotations I did for my specialty. Biggest complaint is you don't get your money's worth out of years 3/4, way less so than with other schools.


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[ATPsynthase123]

It was the core rotations (IM, surgery, psych, peds, FM, OBGYN) that were terrible. Preceptor based rotations, as others have pointed out. Glorified shadowing with no real role for a med student most of the time. Multiple preceptors openly complained that our school kept dumping students on them and they weren't getting paid to be preceptors. OBGYN we weren't allowed in on most deliveries because they were private practice patients. A clinical psychologist was in charge of our psychiatry rotation. Your rotation could get cancelled or changed to a different city at the last minute. One student was with an orthopedic surgeon for his general surgery core rotation- not joking about that. But like I said, if you put in effort you can set up great elective rotations affiliated with different schools. It takes work though. The end result is the same. I don't think I was any less prepared on day 1 of my intern year than anyone else, mostly due to how many audition rotations I did for my specialty. Biggest complaint is you don't get your money's worth out of years 3/4, way less so than with other schools.


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Out of which of these schools would you say has the best rotations?

LMU

VCOM

WVSOM

CUSOM

KYCOM

Or is it a common theme for DO schools to dump you on your ass years 3/4?


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