Pros & Cons of Pediatric Dentistry

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2GREATKIDS

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Part I:
For those of you who are pedo residents, pedo Docs, or others with significant exposure to the discipline; what do you feel are the pros and cons of the profession, all things considered?

AND/OR

Part II:
Where do you see pediatric dentistry in 10, 20, or 30 years?



Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate you insights.
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The only drawback I see is that kids are getting more and more perfect in their parent's eyes and so Jr never does anything wrong anymore. "Why did those teeth do that to my son/daughter?" Not "I told you to brush you teeth" But I think as a specialty it is doing well and will continue for years to come. As a GP, I see decay on primary teeth that has to be restored even in kids that go on to have perfect permanent teeth with no decay!
 
Pros: Great money, high demand for pediatric dentists, the good kids are fun

Cons: Screaming, biting, tears, vomit, rotten parents, limited range of procedures
 
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2GREATKIDS said:
Part I:
For those of you who are pedo residents, pedo Docs, or others with significant exposure to the discipline; what do you feel are the pros and cons of the profession, all things considered?

AND/OR

Part II:
Where do you see pediatric dentistry in 10, 20, or 30 years?

Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate you insights.
Click to expand...

1st year Resident

Pros: I absolutely love working with kids. Along with that comes some occasional vomiting, screaming and hold-and-gos but that's what keeps in interesting. It's a fast-paced, high energy atmosphere to work it so it doesn't get dull. You can go *almost* anywhere and set up a practice and be busy off the bat. The pay is excellent, but you have to like your job or you will hate pediatrics.

Cons: The changing parenting style in our society means changes in treatment and what is socially accepted. Parent's look less favorably on things like papoosing and voice control, which are staples of pediatric dentistry. There has been a big shift towards pharmaceutical managment and acceptance. In the past, the OR was the least accepted tx option. Now, it is opposite.

According to our program director who is a big guy in the pedo world, he sees pediatric dentistry as a field where patients will fit into one of two categories. They can be managed enough to be treated easily in the chair, or if they can't they will go the the OR. This is from a guy who is huge into sedations, curiously enough. He just feels they will be phased out in the future.

As far as the opportunities, they will always be there. Our culture is appearance biased and parents will always put their children's needs in front of their own.
 
Cold Front said:
what kind of minimal stats (part 1, class ranking, etc) would you need to have to be competitive for a pedo program these days?
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of applying right now. The higher stats the better, of course. Pedo is very competitive these days, and programs (I've been told) are seeing a greater number of applicants with 90+ scores. 90+ is probably the average (wouldn't surprise me).

On the other hand, I've been told that programs still appreciate an applicant who has done some pediatric dentistry. Perhaps more so than any other specialty, some experience can go quite a ways on the application. That doesn't mean they'll take the bottom guy in the class, but they will take someone with less than 90 scores if they've got some solid experience. That shows that you know (somewhat) what pedo is about and don't just want to apply because everybody else is applying.

That's my thoughts.
 
ItsGavinC said:
I'm in the process of applying right now. The higher stats the better, of course. Pedo is very competitive these days, and programs (I've been told) are seeing a greater number of applicants with 90+ scores. 90+ is probably the average (wouldn't surprise me).

On the other hand, I've been told that programs still appreciate an applicant who has done some pediatric dentistry. Perhaps more so than any other specialty, some experience can go quite a ways on the application. That doesn't mean they'll take the bottom guy in the class, but they will take someone with less than 90 scores if they've got some solid experience. That shows that you know (somewhat) what pedo is about and don't just want to apply because everybody else is applying.

That's my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Ideal profile of applicant to pedo residency (not any any particular order):

1:Board scores >85
2:GPR with significant rotations in pedo clinic, pedo OR, & anesthesiology.
3:2 years as GP in kids medicaid dental clinic that is also staffed with pedos & dental anesthesiologists.
4:Good letters of rec from GPR director and medicaid clinic top dogs.
5:Come off as a down to earth peep in interviews (not a prima donna).
 
groundhog said:
Ideal profile of applicant to pedo residency (not any any particular order):

1:Board scores >85
2:GPR with significant rotations in pedo clinic, pedo OR, & anesthesiology.
3:2 years as GP in kids medicaid dental clinic that is also staffed with pedos & dental anesthesiologists.
4:Good letters of rec from GPR director and medicaid clinic top dogs.
5:Come off as a down to earth peep in interviews (not a prima donna).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification.

I am surprised that GPR and GP experience are key factors pedo programs look into. If you don't have them, do you have to compensate it with higher board scores? I also noticed research is not on the list, I guess it's not as importance as in other dental specialties (omfs and ortho).
 
Cold Front said:
Thanks for the clarification.

I am surprised that GPR and GP experience are key factors pedo programs look into. If you don't have them, do you have to compensate it with higher board scores? I also noticed research is not on the list, I guess it's not as importance as in other dental specialties (omfs and ortho).
Click to expand...


Research isn't as vital as most institutions. However, there are programs that put an emphasis on research and they then look for it in applicants.

Obviously anything can happen but board scores above 85 are almost a must now. Things have gotten quite competitive and it takes good didactic standing to get interviews at the well-respected programs. As I said, that doesn't mean someone with a lower board score and great pedo experience can't get an interview, it's just not as easy. Along the interview trail, I'd say 90% of the people I met were also new graduates with very high board scores (90+) and the rest of the CV to boot.

As many have said, once you get the interview it's all an even playing field. At that point, it's more a question of if the faculty and other residents can see you as someone they'd want to work side by side with for the next 2-3 years.
 
groundhog said:
Ideal profile of applicant to pedo residency (not any any particular order):

1:Board scores >85
2:GPR with significant rotations in pedo clinic, pedo OR, & anesthesiology.
3:2 years as GP in kids medicaid dental clinic that is also staffed with pedos & dental anesthesiologists.
4:Good letters of rec from GPR director and medicaid clinic top dogs.
5:Come off as a down to earth peep in interviews (not a prima donna).
Click to expand...

I'd take what groundhog says worth a grain of salt. I'm not quite sure how someone who has never been enrolled in a dental school can comment on what makes the ideal pedo applicant. How in the mfing world would you have any clue? Groundhog you are delusional. You really need to just disappear.

Instead, listen to those of us who have actually gone through the application process, talked with a lot of other applicants on interviews, and are actually enrolled in a pediatric program and have some sort of clue as to what attendings are looking for in an applicant.
 
Cold Front said:
Thanks for the clarification.

I am surprised that GPR and GP experience are key factors pedo programs look into. If you don't have them, do you have to compensate it with higher board scores? I also noticed research is not on the list, I guess it's not as importance as in other dental specialties (omfs and ortho).
Click to expand...

The key word was ideal. In the real world there is no such thing as the "ideal applicant" It's akin to the advice that the dental school admission advisers give you in undergrad hoping to motivate folks to shoot for the stars in order to increase their chances.
 
capisce? said:
I'd take what groundhog says worth a grain of salt. I'm not quite sure how someone who has never been enrolled in a dental school can comment on what makes the ideal pedo applicant. How in the mfing world would you have any clue? Groundhog you are delusional. You really need to just disappear.

Instead, listen to those of us who have actually gone through the application process, talked with a lot of other applicants on interviews, and are actually enrolled in a pediatric program and have some sort of clue as to what attendings are looking for in an applicant.
Click to expand...

I don't like feuds, but notice capise did not say I was dead wrong and then provide logical reasoning to support such a position. An old political trick..attack the messenger instead of the message. Some topics are just a matter of applying common sense. In this case its about selecting folks to join a team. The same principles always apply. Selecting officials look at dedication, motivation, intelligence, ability, experience, ethics, and people skills when evaluating applicants. Now if I was on this forum trying to dictate to folks the correct manner in which to do root canals or prep crowns I would be out of my league and capise would then be correct to attack both my message and me as messenger.

While we are at it, I guess another issue capise has with me is that I dare to get involved on a dental forum when I am a non dental. Well, I've always felt it is a good thing for folks to endeavor to educate themselves in as many matters as might strike their interest.
 
groundhog said:
. Some topics are just a matter of applying common sense. In this case its about selecting folks to join a team. The same principles always apply. Selecting officials look at dedication, motivation, intelligence, ability, experience, ethics, and people skills when evaluating applicants.
Click to expand...


Good work captain obvious. This probably holds true for 99% of the employers out their interviewing candidates for an open job. You sure hit the nail on the head!

Might I suggest this as your new avatar:

http://joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/captainobvious_rescue.jpg
 
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2 years as GP in kids medicaid dental clinic that is also staffed with pedos & dental anesthesiologists.
Click to expand...

Working in a Medicaid clinic offers a lot of experience working with the pediatric population. I don't, however, know of many medicaid clinics that are able to recruit dental anesthesiologists or any other type of specialists due to the lower fees associated with Medicaid.
 
Demeter said:
Working in a Medicaid clinic offers a lot of experience working with the pediatric population. I don't, however, know of many medicaid clinics that are able to recruit dental anesthesiologists or any other type of specialists due to the lower fees associated with Medicaid.
Click to expand...

Agreed. You'll see GPs in this environment, but rarely pedos and even more rarely an anesthesiologist of any type.
 
groundhog said:
Ideal profile of applicant to pedo residency (not any any particular order):

1:Board scores >85
2:GPR with significant rotations in pedo clinic, pedo OR, & anesthesiology.
3:2 years as GP in kids medicaid dental clinic that is also staffed with pedos & dental anesthesiologists.
4:Good letters of rec from GPR director and medicaid clinic top dogs.
5:Come off as a down to earth peep in interviews (not a prima donna).
Click to expand...

Ideal for whom? The program? Certainly not the applicant.

I doubt that even 10% of pedo applicants have worked for 2 years as a GP nor done a GPR.
 
capisce? said:
Good work captain obvious. This probably holds true for 99% of the employers out their interviewing candidates for an open job. You sure hit the nail on the head!

Might I suggest this as your new avatar:

http://joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/captainobvious_rescue.jpg
Click to expand...

I'll accept the honor. Duh (common sense) is a good thing in my line of work (electrical utility industry) . You would be surprized how many highly intelligent electrical engineers we have in our industry who are completely lacking in the "duh factor." That is why they are confined to design purgatory where they can do little harm and make less than the "blue collar" foremen and power system dispatchers who are tasked with maintaining the power systems and keeping them up and running 24/7.
 
ItsGavinC said:
Agreed. You'll see GPs in this environment, but rarely pedos and even more rarely an anesthesiologist of any type.
Click to expand...

Gavin, you are a good egg. PM me and I'll tell you where, how, and why it works.
 
groundhog said:
I'll accept the honor. Duh (common sense) is a good thing in my line of work (electrical utility industry) . You would be surprized how many highly intelligent electrical engineers we have in our industry who are completely lacking in the "duh factor." That is why they are confined to design purgatory where they can do little harm and make less than the "blue collar" foremen and power system dispatchers who are tasked with maintaining the power systems and keeping them up and running 24/7.
Click to expand...


Actually, I'm not that surprised. I spend quite a good bit of time over at www.studentelectricalengineers.com telling them what qualities make a good engineer. Number 5 on my list is the duh factor. After reading your posts, I'm contemplating moving it up to numero uno.
 
Cold Front said:
Do pedo programs offer stipends to their residents? if so, what is the range (I know it varies from a program to program)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

usually 30s-low 40s, some make you pay tuition and don't give a stipend, some one or the other but not both. Hospitals ususally pay the best. Some programs in NYC will pay up to 48-52k but with cost of living it's about the same as the others.
 
ItsGavinC said:
I actually think there are a couple that provide stipends but also charge tuition and/or fees.
Click to expand...

yeah i just reread my wording, it made no sense to me the 2nd time around so not sure what i was thinking the 1st time.

what gavin said.
 
capisce? said:
Actually, I'm not that surprised. I spend quite a good bit of time over at www.studentelectricalengineers.com telling them what qualities make a good engineer. Number 5 on my list is the duh factor. After reading your posts, I'm contemplating moving it up to numero uno.
Click to expand...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Touche. Now I know those kids will be safe in your hands because you are obviously very intelligent and learn fast. You went from counterproductive foaming at the mouth ranting and lame mud slinging to very effective creative zingers laced with a touches of humor in three quick steps. Now I can retire from SDN knowing you will continue to add greatly to this wonderful forum while rejoicing in the song "thank God and Greyhound he's gone." :) :) :)

I wish you every success and a great career in pedo. :love: :love:
 
Just a question:when do programs' directors start calling the applicants for an interview?Once they get the app or after the deadline?thanks:)
 
I received most invitations in October. I know it's tough to wait.
 
BUSDM2007 said:
Just a question:when do programs' directors start calling the applicants for an interview?Once they get the app or after the deadline?thanks:)
Click to expand...

good luck, it's an exciting time.
 
capisce? said:
most are via snail mail or email from my experience. i think griffen was invited to numerous interviews, perhaps she can enlighten us.
Click to expand...

Never went to a pedo interview. Ortho invites came by e-mail, phone, certified mail, and even snail mail, so pedo is probaby the same. I almost threw out a thin envelope thinking it was a rejection, turns out it was an invite. My friends & I joked that every time your cell phone rings, you look to see if it's an area code you don't recognize so hopefully it's a program calling you to interview. :laugh:
 
groundhog said:
I don't like feuds, but notice capise did not say I was dead wrong and then provide logical reasoning to support such a position. An old political trick..attack the messenger instead of the message. Some topics are just a matter of applying common sense. In this case its about selecting folks to join a team. The same principles always apply. Selecting officials look at dedication, motivation, intelligence, ability, experience, ethics, and people skills when evaluating applicants. Now if I was on this forum trying to dictate to folks the correct manner in which to do root canals or prep crowns I would be out of my league and capise would then be correct to attack both my message and me as messenger.

While we are at it, I guess another issue capise has with me is that I dare to get involved on a dental forum when I am a non dental. Well, I've always felt it is a good thing for folks to endeavor to educate themselves in as many matters as might strike their interest.
Click to expand...


You got way too much time on your hands.
 
I guess we have to wait until October to hear something about interviews.
One another point:I've heard that if you apply to a pedo program with an additional year of Masters degree,you will probably have a better chance to be accepted,how ture is this?
Take care:)
 
BUSDM2007 said:
I guess we have to wait until October to hear something about interviews.
One another point:I've heard that if you apply to a pedo program with an additional year of Masters degree,you will probably have a better chance to be accepted,how ture is this?
Take care:)
Click to expand...

You have a better chance simply because less applicants apply to those programs. They aren't as appealing to the majority of applicants due to the additional length of the program, or the stringent research requirements/thesis, etc.
 
What are the hours like for a pediatric dentist?
 
ItsGavinC said:
You have a better chance simply because less applicants apply to those programs. They aren't as appealing to the majority of applicants due to the additional length of the program, or the stringent research requirements/thesis, etc.
Click to expand...
So, if one did the master's program, will he/she be (almost) guarenteed a spot?
 
Summary of pediatric dentistry:

Pros- Kids

Cons- Screaming Kids
 
Jediwendell said:
Summary of pediatric dentistry:

Pros- Kids

Cons- Screaming Kids
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm sadistic, but there are days I thoroughly enjoy papoosing and hold-n-gos.
 
Cold Front said:
So, if one did the master's program, will he/she be (almost) guarenteed a spot?
Click to expand...

no, many of the masters programs are quite competitive, such as UNC and Iowa.
 
capisce? said:
Maybe I'm sadistic, but there are days I thoroughly enjoy papoosing and hold-n-gos.
Click to expand...

A bit wierd (not the technique but the "enjoyment factor"). There was a creepy snotty kid in our neighborhood a number of years ago who got their kicks by tying up people's pet animals...wait a minute...nah couldn't be. What are the odds?
 
groundhog said:
A bit wierd (not the technique but the "enjoyment factor"). There was a creepy snotty kid in our neighborhood a number of years ago who got their kicks by tying up people's pet animals...wait a minute...nah couldn't be. What are the odds?
Click to expand...


Actually, no, it's enjoyment in the challenge of the work it takes to endure that kind of environment with the ultimate goal of trying to help the child. Oh, wait a minute, you wouldn't know what it's like. You've never treated a patient before.

I'm glad it's taken you this long to find something of mine to quote. You really are pathetic.
 
capisce? said:
Actually, no, it's enjoyment in the challenge of the work it takes to endure that kind of environment with the ultimate goal of trying to help the child. Oh, wait a minute, you wouldn't know what it's like. You've never treated a patient before.

I'm glad it's taken you this long to find something of mine to quote. You really are pathetic.
Click to expand...

Defintiion of sadistic: delighting in cruelty.

Sorry my good friend, but the train has left the station. However I do understand why you would want to put a positive spin on your comment. My gosh, what would become of your career if parents of the kids you "papoose" knew that you had stated that you enjoy implementing the procedure because you might be sadistic.
 
groundhog said:
Defintiion of sadistic: delighting in cruelty.

Sorry my good friend, but the train has left the station. However I do understand why you would want to put a positive spin on your comment. My gosh, what would become of your career if parents of the kids you "papoose" knew that you had stated that you enjoy implementing the procedure because you might be sadistic.
Click to expand...


My comments on here affecting my career? Laughable.

Snore.
 
capisce? said:
I'm glad it's taken you this long to find something of mine to quote. You really are pathetic.
Click to expand...

Required no effort at all. Just waited for the right moment and I knew it would come soon. Self righteous judgemental folks always wind up pooping in their own nests. aka: Jerry Falwell "God does not hear the prayers of the Jews", Phyllis Schafly "AIDS is God's judgement upon sinners", Rush Limbaugh "don't coddle drug addicts just send them up the river."
 
capisce? said:
My comments on here affecting my career? Laughable.

Snore.
Click to expand...

Laughable indeed. I'm sure your " Maybe I'm sadistic,....." comment would at least make # 10 on David Letterman's top ten list of "disclosure statements a pedodontist should not hang in their office for parents to read."
 
groundhog said:
My gosh, what would become of your career if parents of the kids you "papoose" knew that you had stated that you enjoy implementing the procedure because you might be sadistic.
Click to expand...

Even though I have no desire to make a career of pediatrics, (I am happy to bend wires for the rest of my life.) I do understand the sense of enjoyment one receives in treating a difficult child with a papoose board. Those kids benefit a great deal from the service received. It instills a great sense of accomplishment and pride in oneself to provide quality care for the most difficult of children and under difficult circumstances. I treated a number of special needs patients who actually preferred to be treated in a papoose board. It helped them feel more comfortable with the situation.

PS I know Capisce? and I am certain he won't have any problems with his career.
 
ItsGavinC said:
Okay, enough with the posting of junk already. Let's keep this on topic.
Click to expand...

In keeping with ItsGavinC's (whom I highly respect) request, I'll gladly comply. I'll even go so far as to state that I actually believe that capisce? is a great pedodontist in the making and that he has a real heart for the kids that he treats.

However, let the record be clear that I was not the one who inititiated this war. I took umbrage with capisce? for taking on the role of self designated SDN righteous police and his sorry ranting rage of an attempt to intimidate me into not commenting on this forum because I do not fit into his personal concept of those who are worthy to do so. So, I took off the gloves.

Finally I apologize to the fine SDN community for my part in helping to keep the garbage flowing. I should have been the bigger person from the get go.
 
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