Psych NP Salary

[nsilster]

Came across this video as I was surfing Youtube:



Is this right? Does a Psych NP in private practice make $250K+?

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[NeuroKlitch]

Probably. They charge similar maybe but slightly lower rates from what I've seen .

 

[Mad Jack]

It's absolutely possible. The free market will bear a lot when it comes to psychiatric services.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Sure especially in independent practice states. Insurance varies on if they’ll reimburse them 100% or 85% of physician fees but even at 85% it’s pretty feasible to make 250k outpatient with private insurance. Cash only you can charge whatever you want as long as you can get patients. The cash patient market is likely a bit more picky but in a lot of states there’s such a wait to get in to see anyone they’ll go see an NP.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Nurse who used to work at our hospital, now an NP at a clinic down the road, makes >$200k. Sees 30-40 pt / day, prescribes lots of stimulants / benzos. Intakes done by psychiatrist who owns the clinic, and then handed off to an NP. Followups not staffed with psychiatrist. 3 NPs in the practice with similar numbers. I am told the psychiatrist has two other clinics with a similar structure.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Nurse who used to work at our hospital, now an NP at a clinic down the road, makes >$200k. Sees 30-40 pt / day, prescribes lots of stimulants / benzos. Intakes done by psychiatrist who owns the clinic, and then handed off to an NP. Followups not staffed with psychiatrist. 3 NPs in the practice with similar numbers. I am told the psychiatrist has two other clinics with a similar structure.

That's right the "candyman" model of making money, my favorite. yum yum.

 

[AD04]

I have a lot of respect for the The Psych NP (from YouTube). Not only did he have the balls to start his own practice, he is super transparent with his numbers:

gross: $300k+
profit: $250k

work:
- 30 hrs / week (3 days / week and 10 hrs / day)
- 10 - 12 pts / day

For those who are interested in private practice, I would include his channel as a learning source regarding the business aspect of private practice.

 

[Monocles]

250k is easy for an NP in private practice. In Boston is it not unusual to see NPs billing $200+ for 45 min therapy or meds/therapy.

250000/200/48 is about 26 hours per week of work.

 

[Stagg737]

Nurse who used to work at our hospital, now an NP at a clinic down the road, makes >$200k. Sees 30-40 pt / day, prescribes lots of stimulants / benzos. Intakes done by psychiatrist who owns the clinic, and then handed off to an NP. Followups not staffed with psychiatrist. 3 NPs in the practice with similar numbers. I am told the psychiatrist has two other clinics with a similar structure.

And they haven't been reported to their respective boards how? Is this an FPA state?

 

[irondoc]

Are psychiatrists making significantly more than psych NPs practicing independently in FPA states?

 

[Sushirolls]

Are psychiatrists making significantly more than psych NPs practicing independently in FPA states?

Probably not, unless they are doing cash only, or happening to be employing ARNPs. But what constitutes 'more' is relative.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

And they haven't been reported to their respective boards how? Is this an FPA state?

California. I think the psychiatrist's name is (was?) somewhere on the notes, but how involved he could be in supervising the NP care of 90-120+ patients (many of whom I heard were prescribed controlled substances) a day is...

 

[Stagg737]

California. I think the psychiatrist's name is (was?) somewhere on the notes, but how involved he could be in supervising the NP care of 90-120+ patients (many of whom I heard were prescribed controlled substances) a day is...

Yea, not particularly familiar with California's laws, but it sounds like this guy is just asking to be sued for malpractice and be reported to the BoHA...

 

[nsilster]

Thanks for your responses everyone!

 

[medium rare]

I have a lot of respect for the The Psych NP (from YouTube). Not only did he have the balls to start his own practice, he is super transparent with his numbers:

gross: $300k+
profit: $250k

work:
- 30 hrs / week (3 days / week and 10 hrs / day)
- 10 - 12 pts / day

For those who are interested in private practice, I would include his channel as a learning source regarding the business aspect of private practice.

Those numbers seem quite accurate and doable from my experience/perspective.

 

[NickNaylor]

A PMHNP doing therapy without additional training = lol

 

[splik]

looks like hes in maryland which allows NPs to practice independently (there was even an uproar as they allow NPs to serve as medical directors too!) and takes all the PPO plans in the state, with a membership model of $125/month. For out of pocket he charges $250 for an intake and $150 for 30 min med follow ups. also sells nutrients and does medical marijuana evals and has another NP in his practice. His numbers appear to be based on future projections rather than on what he is actually making.

but also looks like he provides mentorship and private practice advice for NPs, charging $100 per 30 mins. which i find odd that someone who has just opened up a practice themselves and got their NP license less than 2 yrs ago would be doing.

 

[deleted456421]

This prompted me to look up the salaries of NPs in the East Coast VA I work at. $150,000 for about 16 patients weekly. Some of the best residents in my program are getting offered $205,000 at the same hospital.

 

[Bartelby]

$150,000 per year for 16 outpatients per week? If so that is remarkably cushy.

 

[hallowmann]

$150,000 per year for 16 outpatients per week? If so that is remarkably cushy.

The only way I could see this making sense would be if they were doing 16 diagnostics/intakes a week, and even that is cushy. If it was follow-ups, I'd like to know how I could get paid $150k for at most 2 days of work a week.

 

[deleted456421]

I have no idea if this is Covid related or not, but I looked up a few NP’s salaries for 2019 and their average weekly patient load over the last few months. I’m not joking about the salary or number of patients being seen weekly.

 

[reca]

but also looks like he provides mentorship and private practice advice for NPs, charging $100 per 30 mins. which i find odd that someone who has just opened up a practice themselves and got their NP license less than 2 yrs ago would be doing.

It’s not odd if you know where this is coming from. It’s a common business model in the “internet entrepreneur” world. You’ll see it often for dropshipping, copy writing, affiliate marketing, and other e-commerce. They’ll claim to be making six figures monthly and promise to teach you how to do the same. All you need to do is sign up for their online course, get access to their exclusive Facebook group for direct mentorship, and just sit and count your dollars. I’ve never signed up for these classes but I imagine it’s a bit of a Ponzi scheme: you go out and make your own course to sell to others. This guy, I’m about 99% sure, is a graduate of the EliteNP course. He follows the model to a tee. If I was a betting man, I’d bet a lot of money that he’s banking on making more money from YouTube ad revenue, “mentorship”, selling videos, and affiliate marketing than he is from his clinical “work.”

 

[FlowRate]

but also looks like he provides mentorship and private practice advice for NPs, charging $100 per 30 mins. which i find odd that someone who has just opened up a practice themselves and got their NP license less than 2 yrs ago would be doing.

@reca 's comment is more insightful than mine but isn't acting as an "expert" with little experience or training exactly the NP model?

 

[AD04]

I took a look at The Elite NP. The guy sells 12 different courses and has 12 more courses planned. There is no way someone can have 24 different side gigs and be an expert in all of them. Is he just reading things on the internet and then packaging that into a course? It seems course-making is profitable as he's cranking them out. I've never seen something like this for MD / DO. We gravitate towards WCI which have very high quality information that passes the sniff test. I'm guessing there is a correlation between IQ and not taking things at face value (e.g. it must be true because there is a course about it).

I'm not quite sure The Psych NP falls into the same category as The Elite NP. You can look him up and see he started a practice. He's growing his practice. He's doing unconventional things like medical marijuana and supplements but some physicians also do those. I think it's smart he's charging for mentorship as he's has knowledge that other people are willing to pay for. It'll be interesting to see how things turns out down the road.

P.S. It's easier to make money in clinical medicine than internet marketing, especially when factoring in the time-value of money. So someone that is able to make more money from internet marketing than clinical medicine is very business savvy.

 

[psychacad]

There's so much scam in the PP world. Forget NPs. I've come across so many MDs from "elite programs" selling snake oil with "nutraceuticals", "genetic testing" and qEEG to balance your brain connections.

 

[Taddy Mason]

...I'm guessing there is a correlation between IQ and not taking things at face value (e.g. it must be true because there is a course about it)....

...Trump University...

 

[blue.jay]

I've a serious question. Can I do online nursing school and PHMNP course all online on my weeks off as hospitalist? That way in 4 years I can be dual boarded in IM and Psych (nursing board). Outpatient psych private practice is making lot of $$$ these days. If I choose psych residency it's the same BS with getting LORs, match process, working long hrs for 50k, conference, research, presentation and ****. I will still be a doctor and can still be called a psychiatrist. I wish I can be shameless enough to do this to make mockery of this system.

Another advantage of PMHNP pathway for MD is the lifespan crap where I can treat mental health problems from birth to death without any BS child psych or geri psych fellowships

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

It's realistic. Psych NPs with business acumen can make 200k+ easily. I myself make well over that number. And I'm not even in an independent practice state. It's all about building a strong skill set and networking with the right people.

 

[hebel]

I've a serious question. Can I do online nursing school and PHMNP course all online on my weeks off as hospitalist? That way in 4 years I can be dual boarded in IM and Psych (nursing board). Outpatient psych private practice is making lot of $$$ these days. If I choose psych residency it's the same BS with getting LORs, match process, working long hrs for 50k, conference, research, presentation and ****. I will still be a doctor and can still be called a psychiatrist. I wish I can be shameless enough to do this to make mockery of this system.

Another advantage of PMHNP pathway for MD is the lifespan crap where I can treat mental health problems from birth to death without any BS child psych or geri psych fellowships

Haha, this is actually kind of a clever idea.

 

[Sushirolls]

I suspect that which license is active will be the default that needs insurance coverage for and will be the standard you are held to.

I.e. if you get sued while practicing as an ARNP you will be held to the standard of a physician and your expert witnesses will IM and or Psych; not an ARNP. I foresee mitigating headaches by needing to let the medical license lapse, and with that the IM board cert to be just an ARNP.

 

[scoopdaboop]

I've a serious question. Can I do online nursing school and PHMNP course all online on my weeks off as hospitalist? That way in 4 years I can be dual boarded in IM and Psych (nursing board). Outpatient psych private practice is making lot of $$$ these days. If I choose psych residency it's the same BS with getting LORs, match process, working long hrs for 50k, conference, research, presentation and ****. I will still be a doctor and can still be called a psychiatrist. I wish I can be shameless enough to do this to make mockery of this system.

Another advantage of PMHNP pathway for MD is the lifespan crap where I can treat mental health problems from birth to death without any BS child psych or geri psych fellowships

i think a lot of schools have a requirement that you are a RN... but it'll be interesting if they did allow this how many FM/EM/IM docs would do this on the side to be able to put up a shingle

 

[medium rare]

i think a lot of schools have a requirement that you are a RN... but it'll be interesting if they did allow this how many FM/EM/IM docs would do this on the side to be able to put up a shingle

You have to be a Registered Nurse with a BSN degree in order to train as an APRN. All schools of nursing have this requirement.

There isn’t anything that would prevent a physician from training as a PMHNP if they wanted to, but they would have to be prepared to earn a BSN, get licensed as a RN, and then complete a PMHNP program.

The practitioner would need to maintain both licenses (MD and NP) if they wanted to continue to practice as both and keep in mind that as a dual-profession licensee, a complaint to one board will also be reported to the other board. So, it can feel like a bit of double jeopardy if you get a complaint filed against you as you will end up dealing with both boards.

 

[robellis]

You have to be a Registered Nurse with a BSN degree in order to train as an APRN. All schools of nursing have this requirement.

There isn’t anything that would prevent a physician from training as a PMHNP if they wanted to, but they would have to be prepared to earn a BSN, get licensed as a RN, and then complete a PMHNP program.

The practitioner would need to maintain both licenses (MD and NP) if they wanted to continue to practice as both and keep in mind that as a dual-profession licensee, a complaint to one board will also be reported to the other board. So, it can feel like a bit of double jeopardy if you get a complaint filed against you as you will end up dealing with both boards.

Why the hell would a doctor want to become a nurse lol

 

[LimpSpatula]

Why the hell would a doctor want to become a nurse lol

Because politics in medicine is cancer, with essentially polar opposites in leadership goals. Nurse leadership is centered on success and wellbeing of nurses working the profession. Physician leadership is centered around creating a pyramid scheme. Physicians treat literally every other profession in healthcare better than they do other physicians. Think about that for a second.

 

[LimpSpatula]

Yea, not particularly familiar with California's laws, but it sounds like this guy is just asking to be sued for malpractice and be reported to the BoHA...

This is common practice in CA. I’m not sure if you noticed but we have the most marginalized patients in medicine. Don’t you guys love to brag about psychiatrists getting sued the least? There are plenty of psychiatrists who are practicing with zero regard to helping patients.

There is no better practical path for making money in medicine than becoming a psych NP. Several reasons:

-Huge demand for the field
-The bar has already been set extremely low by psychiatrists.
-Least understood field of medicine both from a scientific and lamens perspective
-Least valued patient population in society
-Least litigious patient population
-Very hard to kill someone
-Can become Psych NP practicing independently in as little as 6 years (mind you in the state of California that is 11 years for any physician)

 

[blue.jay]

I am exploring the loophole in the system. Nursing board is far more forgiving than medical board. God forbid if you have one red flag in your license application the medical board will make your life miserable. Nursing board on the other hand seems very lenient; I know an NP who's license is revoked in CA and then moved to a neighboring state where he was accused of sexual harassment by his female patients which led to another state license (nursing) suspension. That guy is still practicing now in the same state and his license status is now active.

 

[splik]

Why the hell would a doctor want to become a nurse lol

I know of a psychiatrist who knew he was going to lose his license (ironically for letting people practice medicine without a license) who trained as a psych NP so he could continue practicing after lol

 

[Splenda88]

I know of a psychiatrist who knew he was going to lose his license (ironically for letting people practice medicine without a license) who trained as a psych NP so he could continue practicing after lol

Wow... Was he/she already a RN? If not, that's kind of a 4 years endeavor...

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Because politics in medicine is cancer, with essentially polar opposites in leadership goals. Nurse leadership is centered on success and wellbeing of nurses working the profession. Physician leadership is centered around creating a pyramid scheme. Physicians treat literally every other profession in healthcare better than they do other physicians. Think about that for a second.

Lol orrrr nursing leadership is more concerned with pumping out poorly trained NPs from online schools where they have to find their own “clinicals” (aka shadowing with less responsibility than a first year med student) than actually producing quality trained NPs with consistent educational curricula....kinda like medical schools have.

I mean I guess you could call that the “success” of the profession in that they pump out more NP members every year to form a huge lobby.

 

[hallowmann]

Wow... Was he/she already a RN? If not, that's kind of a 4 years endeavor...

There are 1-yr/14 mo accelerated BSN programs for people who already have a Bachelors. I have a couple friends who were in a program like that. Took them maybe 1.25 yrs to become licensed RNs. One is now in CRNA school, and she'll be done before I finish residency. She started the BSN when I started med school and will be done before I finish residency with 5 yrs of work experience as an RN in-between.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Ok this is all a meme anyways, there is no reason for any licensed psychiatrist or anyone making more than 300k a year to do PMHNP because you won't make that much anyways, but it MIGHT make sense for FM/ER/IM trained docs who want to take it easy... but then you have to be a RN so it doesn't make sense following that route, but if psychiatrists were to allow FM/ER/IM basically general medicine docs to get a 1-2 psych certificate that would be feasible.... but they would never allow that lol.

 

[hallowmann]

Ok this is all a meme anyways, there is no reason for any licensed psychiatrist or anyone making more than 300k a year to do PMHNP because you won't make that much anyways, but it MIGHT make sense for FM/ER/IM trained docs who want to take it easy... but then you have to be a RN so it doesn't make sense following that route, but if psychiatrists were to allow FM/ER/IM basically general medicine docs to get a 1-2 psych certificate that would be feasible.... but they would never allow that lol.

1 yr behavioral health fellowships already exist in primary care. Also, as a physician, especially in primary care, you can technically practice in any capacity you want. Psychiatric illness is already 25-30% of what PCPs manage (mainly treating patients without SMI). Most don't do more because they understand the risk and know their limitations.

 

[scoopdaboop]

1 yr behavioral health fellowships already exist in primary care. Also, as a physician, especially in primary care, you can technically practice in any capacity you want. Psychiatric illness is already 25-30% of what PCPs manage (mainly treating patients without SMI). Most don't do more because they understand the risk and know their limitations.

Ahh ok, then it doesn't make sense for any physician to do it.

 

[LimpSpatula]

Ahh ok, then it doesn't make sense for any physician to do it.

It’s confusion of the highest orda.

 

[Splenda88]

1 yr behavioral health fellowships already exist in primary care. Also, as a physician, especially in primary care, you can technically practice in any capacity you want. Psychiatric illness is already 25-30% of what PCPs manage (mainly treating patients without SMI). Most don't do more because they understand the risk and know their limitations.

Can one be boarded in behavioral health?

 

[robellis]

Can one be boarded in behavioral health?

No...

 

[comp1]

$250k is significantly higher than any large organization I have seen is able to pay a NP. I'm sure there are niche more cash oriented practices that can do it, but any large organization is not saving much over a psychiatrist if they're paying the NP $250k. On the high end, I'd say you're looking at about $150k. Here, check out the VA: USAJOBS - Search

 

[sloh]

-The bar has already been set extremely low by psychiatrists.

Can you elaborate more on this point? Like what specific examples you see

 

[Stagg737]

This is common practice in CA. I’m not sure if you noticed but we have the most marginalized patients in medicine. Don’t you guys love to brag about psychiatrists getting sued the least? There are plenty of psychiatrists who are practicing with zero regard to helping patients.

There is no better practical path for making money in medicine than becoming a psych NP. Several reasons:

-Huge demand for the field
-The bar has already been set extremely low by psychiatrists.
-Least understood field of medicine both from a scientific and lamens perspective
-Least valued patient population in society
-Least litigious patient population
-Very hard to kill someone
-Can become Psych NP practicing independently in as little as 6 years (mind you in the state of California that is 11 years for any physician)

I largely agree with what you're saying, but I can't imagine that an NP seeing 30+ patients per day without direct supervision while prescribing controlled substances would go unrecognized by everyone in the area. I would think that at some point another psychiatrist in the area would recognize a problem with this kind of care and have a low threshold to report to the boards if seeing inappropriate prescribing.

I realize that there's a (miniscule) possibility that the patients are being cared for in a mostly appropriate way and not put at significant risk, but given how terrible a large portion of the NP plans I've seen are from NPs seeing 8-12 patients per day, I don't have much faith that an NP seeing 2-3 times that many patients could even provide relatively competent care.

 

[reca]

-Can become Psych NP practicing independently in as little as 6 years (mind you in the state of California that is 11 years for any physician)

You're vastly overestimating the training of a psych NP. If you have a bachelor's degree, it's 2 years of training. If you have a BSN, it's 1 year of training. If you're a college drop out, it's 5 years of training.