Psychiatry and International MPH ?

[PsychMD]

I am interested in finding whether there are any International MPH programs with particular emphasis on Psychiatric Public Health/Systems of care.

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[PsychMD]

...no replies so far...allow me to elaborate a little...

I have been thinking for a while that, in a couple of years, when my daughter finally graduates from college and hopefully becomes more self-sufficient, I could afford to step away from clinical practice and pursue postgrad. education for an MPH in International Public Health. I am wondering whether I'd be considered somewhat of an odd duck in that academic/career environment, not only because I would be probably older than the average MPH student (especially for the Intl. MPH crowd who I imagine are mostly a younger crop of students with Peace Corps experience and recent college degrees, rather than middle aged docs), but also because my basic specialty is Psychiatry rather than Int. Med, Fam. Practice, or Infectious Diseases...and there aren't a lot of mentors or even training avenues for the International Public Health/Psychiatry interface. I also am mostly interested in learning about Mental Health "delivery" systems in developing countries (including policy planning for community mental health systems, balance between institutionalization/des-institutionalization, training of personnel), rather than general behavior mod. for better public health/healthy attitudes at the general population level or the basic substance abuse prevention stuff.

I am obviously still trying to LEARN more about the field and various training programs that would be theoretically available...I just don't know yet whether I have realistic "interests" and aspirations, and which Intl MPH programs would actually be within my reach or a good fit, plus I've been away from "academia" for so long...that I'm a little skittish about whether I still have any study/research skills left at all!

I need a reality check most of all. Do I sound like a daydreamer that has no clue what they're actually talking about/getting into?

 

[JMD]

PsychMD,

This is a topic I am interested in, too (although I am only a second year medical student). I have been interested in Psych and at this point plan to pursue it unless my rotation next year turns out to be a horrible experience. I am also quite interested in international health.

The point of my reply is to tell you that I was at a conference last year in Chicago (International Federation of Medical Student Associations- they do a ton of international health work) and one of the speaker's talked about a program that he was running to put a mental health delivery system in place in Bosnia. It sounds like this is exactly what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, I can't remember his name at the moment, but I believe that he was from univeristy of Chicago.

I don't have time to look into it right this minute, but I will find out and post later.

You're not a daydreamer, these kinds of programs do exist (and I am sure many, many more are needed).

 

[JMD]

OK, so i looked real quick...

His name is Stevan Weine @ UofI-Chicago. The site only talks about his program to help Bosnian refugees here in the states, but I swear he spoke more about a program in Bosnia. Either way, it may give you some insight into possibilities. His website is http://www.psych.uic.edu/research/genocide/biography.htm

Also, here is a link to the International Psychiatry Bulletin put out quarterly by the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/publications/internationalPsychiatry.htm

I would love to learn more about programs and opportunities if you come across anything. Quite honestly, I haven't pursued much because I feel as though I am a little too bogged down in day-to-day medical school right now to devote enough time to a project or anything.

Keep me posted.

 

[PsychMD]

Thanks for the replies and useful links.

 

[thirdclius]

Hi PsychMd
I am currently an MPH international health/globalhealth student at Loma Linda Unviersity. So far I can only tell you what I know from my limited experience here in international health since I am only a budding MPH professional.

Mental health needs of a population is a very important aspect of a population. In the field of international health, mental health problems are studied and acknowledged especially among vulnerable populations such as refugees, sex workers, trafficked people, internally displaced individuals. Unfortunately, mental health needs of these populations are not addressed very well in international public health. It is quite understandable due to the large problems being tackled by public health in international settings, namely infectious diseases, disaster relief, etc; and the limited fundings received by organizations. See this website
http://www.globalhealth.org/sources/view.php3?id=248
Additionally, some of the mental health problems are viewed by local population as a personal failure rather than a disease that must be treated. This is a significant barrier to access to mental health care. Hence, we can see that there is a lack of supply and demand due to the lack of funding and due to the way people think about getting treatment, respectively.

However, even if this is the case, maybe in the future there will be a movement towards addressing the lack of mental health providers in international health. Heck, even pharmacists and public health was not much given emphasis until recently.

Furthermore, international health is a broad field and you learn a little bit of epi, stats, health administration, nutrition, etc. Most of our duties as international health or maybe just as MPH are the things you just mentioned (including policy planning for community mental health systems, balance between institutionalization/des-institutionalization, training of personnel),plus some grant-writing, program evaluation, and improving sustainability, etc. There are so many things to do with our international health degree and you can definitely combine your psychiatry expertise with it, and you just have to find the right organization to work for (which is the case to all of us INTH MPH graduates). MPH program is not much academia, it is more of an independent learning type where we have to write lots and lots of research papers. AS for your concern about age, INTh programs are very much open minded and there is a spectrum of age as well. I had some classmates who are physicians and they were basically wanting MPH to enhance their credential or they want to change their focus from clinical to more administrative. I really had a great time with INTH program at Loma Linda. WE were actually the most cohesive group compared with other majors (maybe because of how our program has to do with so much group work). I would also ask if you have an experience working internationally? If you don't I would think you should try it first, because working internationally is romanticized. I also had some classmates from INTH who realized that working internationally was not for them after spending 2.5 weeks for a class abroad. This is fine, because at least they knew that it was not for them but just to make the point that some people who want to work internationally may find international work is not for them.

For additional help, I would say to contact people who have been exposed to the field. FAculty members in INTH programs could be great contacts. Also, talking with people who just got out of the international health field (ie returning peace corps volunteers, or returning ex-pats maybe goodones.) Students may be good ones too, as for me it is unfortunate that i don;t know much about mental health. Also go to Global health council's website
http://www.globalhealth.org
. You can also attend their conference, which is usually held in June. Networking is a very important activity for public health professionals especially now where collaborations and partnerships between organizations are the trend.

I hope this helps

...no replies so far...allow me to elaborate a little...

I have been thinking for a while that, in a couple of years, when my daughter finally graduates from college and hopefully becomes more self-sufficient, I could afford to step away from clinical practice and pursue postgrad. education for an MPH in International Public Health. I am wondering whether I'd be considered somewhat of an odd duck in that academic/career environment, not only because I would be probably older than the average MPH student (especially for the Intl. MPH crowd who I imagine are mostly a younger crop of students with Peace Corps experience and recent college degrees, rather than middle aged docs), but also because my basic specialty is Psychiatry rather than Int. Med, Fam. Practice, or Infectious Diseases...and there aren't a lot of mentors or even training avenues for the International Public Health/Psychiatry interface. I also am mostly interested in learning about Mental Health "delivery" systems in developing countries (including policy planning for community mental health systems, balance between institutionalization/des-institutionalization, training of personnel), rather than general behavior mod. for better public health/healthy attitudes at the general population level or the basic substance abuse prevention stuff.

I am obviously still trying to LEARN more about the field and various training programs that would be theoretically available...I just don't know yet whether I have realistic "interests" and aspirations, and which Intl MPH programs would actually be within my reach or a good fit, plus I've been away from "academia" for so long...that I'm a little skittish about whether I still have any study/research skills left at all!

I need a reality check most of all. Do I sound like a daydreamer that has no clue what they're actually talking about/getting into?

Thanks for the replies and useful links.

 

[thirdclius]

Hey, let me know if you have questions about International health. I am in love with this field .
I'll try to answer your questions as much as I can. You can email me too

Hi PsychMd
I am currently an MPH international health/globalhealth student at Loma Linda Unviersity. So far I can only tell you what I know from my limited experience here in international health since I am only a budding MPH professional.

Mental health needs of a population is a very important aspect of a population. In the field of international health, mental health problems are studied and acknowledged especially among vulnerable populations such as refugees, sex workers, trafficked people, internally displaced individuals. Unfortunately, mental health needs of these populations are not addressed very well in international public health. It is quite understandable due to the large problems being tackled by public health in international settings, namely infectious diseases, disaster relief, etc; and the limited fundings received by organizations. See this website
http://www.globalhealth.org/sources/view.php3?id=248
Additionally, some of the mental health problems are viewed by local population as a personal failure rather than a disease that must be treated. This is a significant barrier to access to mental health care. Hence, we can see that there is a lack of supply and demand due to the lack of funding and due to the way people think about getting treatment, respectively.

However, even if this is the case, maybe in the future there will be a movement towards addressing the lack of mental health providers in international health. Heck, even pharmacists and public health was not much given emphasis until recently.

Furthermore, international health is a broad field and you learn a little bit of epi, stats, health administration, nutrition, etc. Most of our duties as international health or maybe just as MPH are the things you just mentioned (including policy planning for community mental health systems, balance between institutionalization/des-institutionalization, training of personnel),plus some grant-writing, program evaluation, and improving sustainability, etc. There are so many things to do with our international health degree and you can definitely combine your psychiatry expertise with it, and you just have to find the right organization to work for (which is the case to all of us INTH MPH graduates). MPH program is not much academia, it is more of an independent learning type where we have to write lots and lots of research papers. AS for your concern about age, INTh programs are very much open minded and there is a spectrum of age as well. I had some classmates who are physicians and they were basically wanting MPH to enhance their credential or they want to change their focus from clinical to more administrative. I really had a great time with INTH program at Loma Linda. WE were actually the most cohesive group compared with other majors (maybe because of how our program has to do with so much group work). I would also ask if you have an experience working internationally? If you don't I would think you should try it first, because working internationally is romanticized. I also had some classmates from INTH who realized that working internationally was not for them after spending 2.5 weeks for a class abroad. This is fine, because at least they knew that it was not for them but just to make the point that some people who want to work internationally may find international work is not for them.

For additional help, I would say to contact people who have been exposed to the field. FAculty members in INTH programs could be great contacts. Also, talking with people who just got out of the international health field (ie returning peace corps volunteers, or returning ex-pats maybe goodones.) Students may be good ones too, as for me it is unfortunate that i don;t know much about mental health. Also go to Global health council's website
http://www.globalhealth.org
. You can also attend their conference, which is usually held in June. Networking is a very important activity for public health professionals especially now where collaborations and partnerships between organizations are the trend.

I hope this helps

 

[PsychMD]

Thanks for the very encouraging and educational responses. True, I haven't worked internationally since I've been mired in day-in-day out "trenches-based" clinical practice, and previously in Med school/motherhood! I do not think I romanticize the field too much. I have lived as a child (and went to school) in different countries, as my Dad was in the foreign service and for a while in UNESCO. (He's been retired for quite a while, now, he's not done much networking since, plus he was more into economic policy rather than health. Still has some old gripes about the "politics" of international work, BTW!).

Childhood experiences and foreign languages experience, however, are in a whole different ballpark than actual volunteer work or work experience as an adult, especially as a Psychiatrist. I haven't been able to find any specific Psychiatry volunteer oppts., since it's such an "underdeveloped" field in most underdeveloped countries, even in the "developing" ones. Plus there are so many licensing barriers for actual clinical practice anywhere at physician level, lots of logistics problems which haven't yet even been addressed, lack of funding for specific programs one could "attach" oneself to, etc. There is a recent interest increase at WHO level re. "mental health" tx. delivery systems, but it seems yet a relatively fledgeling not yet very structured effort (compared with the priorities re. Infectious diseases, and Maternal and child care).

I've read with interest about a couple of specific experiences (American psychiatrists practicing in Africa relatively recently):

Of Spirits and Madness : An American Psychiatrist in Africa, by Paul R. Linde

Dar Days: The Early Years in Tanzania, by Charles R. Swift (this one actually describes an effort to set up a Mental Health system of care in Tanzania).

There are a couple of recent articles or master's level theses available on the net re. reforming and improving Psych. systems of care in a couple of non-EU Eastern European countries and a couple of former Soviet Asian republics as well.

IMHO, the timing may be ripening over the next couple of years. I am still in the process of learning more about currently existing coordinated international initiatives, not quite yet ready to apply for a specific MPH program, although I have started to tentatively look for mentorship opportunities, and organizing links in my "favorites" folder.

If you will allow me a personal observation, although it may be skewed, as coming from an "outsider" with no actual experience in the field of Public Health: it seems to me there is such a fine tight-rope balance between the needs/opportunities currently available for specific IPH depts. and potential individual MPH candidates' interests, especially as pertaining to a possibly narrow focus of interest. Maybe this is more evident at the doctoral level rather than at the MPH level. Or maybe I'm just scared of the "politics"/expectations of Academia, in general, since it's been so long since I've been a student! Or maybe I've internalized some of my Dad's old gripes about "international work"!

I'm just probably scared that I'm too "old", and/or going through some sort of midlife crisis! (I'm actually 43.)

I welcome any further comments, questions, pointers, and discussions. Who knows...we may be traillblazing a potentially interesting focus of interest for other colleagues as well!

 

[thirdclius]

I totally understand what you were saying about how childhood experiences may be different from an actual experience working in the field. I have not really worked in the field and my main experience is living in the third world as a child. But at least we had that exposure that other people do not have. We belong to that cross-culture where people not having experienced any sort of cross-culture won't understand (ask peace corps volunteeers about how they have difficulty relating to others and vice versa). Regarding politics, yeah INTH is so much politics! I can't blame you or your dad from having gripes about it.

You are not old to do Inth MPH. 43 is young IMHO! Getting an MPH will enhance your current degree. Besides, INTH students are very open-minded, you won't feel out of place at all. I had three MD classmates and they got along with us and we got along with them as well. mOreover, Having a field experience in health before getting MPH is a big plus in classes.
I think your experiences will be invaluable in the field as well. IF we are going to look at the tsunami victims, there is so much need for mental health delivery. I hope this field will ripen soon.

Thanks for the very encouraging and educational responses. True, I haven't worked internationally since I've been mired in day-in-day out "trenches-based" clinical practice, and previously in Med school/motherhood! I do not think I romanticize the field too much. I have lived as a child (and went to school) in different countries, as my Dad was in the foreign service and for a while in UNESCO. (He's been retired for quite a while, now, he's not done much networking since, plus he was more into economic policy rather than health. Still has some old gripes about the "politics" of international work, BTW!).

Childhood experiences and foreign languages experience, however, are in a whole different ballpark than actual volunteer work or work experience as an adult, especially as a Psychiatrist. I haven't been able to find any specific Psychiatry volunteer oppts., since it's such an "underdeveloped" field in most underdeveloped countries, even in the "developing" ones. Plus there are so many licensing barriers for actual clinical practice anywhere at physician level, lots of logistics problems which haven't yet even been addressed, lack of funding for specific programs one could "attach" oneself to, etc. There is a recent interest increase at WHO level re. "mental health" tx. delivery systems, but it seems yet a relatively fledgeling not yet very structured effort (compared with the priorities re. Infectious diseases, and Maternal and child care).

I've read with interest about a couple of specific experiences (American psychiatrists practicing in Africa relatively recently):

Of Spirits and Madness : An American Psychiatrist in Africa, by Paul R. Linde

Dar Days: The Early Years in Tanzania, by Charles R. Swift (this one actually describes an effort to set up a Mental Health system of care in Tanzania).

There are a couple of recent articles or master's level theses available on the net re. reforming and improving Psych. systems of care in a couple of non-EU Eastern European countries and a couple of former Soviet Asian republics as well.

IMHO, the timing may be ripening over the next couple of years. I am still in the process of learning more about currently existing coordinated international initiatives, not quite yet ready to apply for a specific MPH program, although I have started to tentatively look for mentorship opportunities, and organizing links in my "favorites" folder.

If you will allow me a personal observation, although it may be skewed, as coming from an "outsider" with no actual experience in the field of Public Health: it seems to me there is such a fine tight-rope balance between the needs/opportunities currently available for specific IPH depts. and potential individual MPH candidates' interests, especially as pertaining to a possibly narrow focus of interest. Maybe this is more evident at the doctoral level rather than at the MPH level. Or maybe I'm just scared of the "politics"/expectations of Academia, in general, since it's been so long since I've been a student! Or maybe I've internalized some of my Dad's old gripes about "international work"!

I'm just probably scared that I'm too "old", and/or going through some sort of midlife crisis! (I'm actually 43.)

I welcome any further comments, questions, pointers, and discussions. Who knows...we may be traillblazing a potentially interesting focus of interest for other colleagues as well!

 

[pr.usmle]

hello thirdclius, i'm a med student from india. i plan to take the USMLE and pursue psychiatry ... but before that i want to pursue an MS in some psych related schoolof public health...any suggestions..? i have a GRE score of 1350/1600
thank you

 

[thirdclius]

hey pr usmle
I am not really sure if there is a psych related school of public health. I know our school has a combined psych. and DrPH degree. Congrats on your GRE you did really well!!

hello thirdclius, i'm a med student from india. i plan to take the USMLE and pursue psychiatry ... but before that i want to pursue an MS in some psych related schoolof public health...any suggestions..? i have a GRE score of 1350/1600
thank you

 

[PsychMD]

Thanks, thirdclius, for the very encouraging and informational replies.

 

[MD1088]

I did an MPH at Tulane University through the Depatment of International Health + Development. The "track" I chose for my degree was Public Psychiatry/Medical Anthropology. Dr Leslie Snider was program supervisor. It was good professionally and academically.

 

[pr.usmle]

I did an MPH at Tulane University through the Depatment of International Health + Development. The "track" I chose for my degree was Public Psychiatry/Medical Anthropology. Dr Leslie Snider was program supervisor. It was good professionally and academically.

hello md1088, i'm a medical graduate from india. i was also quite interested in the area of research of Dr Lesie Snider.. even wrote to her.. but she wrote back saying she had moved out to somewhere in africa.. so when i saw her name on your mail i instantly knew you must've shared similar interests....
i plan to take up an MPH in international health, preferably in public psychiatry/medical anthropology, as i want to pursue an MD in psychiatry. i will be giving my step 1 of the USMLE by june.
i wanted some guidance... can you tell me of other places offering related tracks, or if you got in touch with other professors who have similar interests during your coursework.....
secondly, when i apply to such a course is it wise to declare my vision of an eventual MD /or is counterproductive for my chances of an admission?
hoping to hear from you.. regards.