Psychotherapists out there in private practice, ahoy!

[IncognitoCats]

Generous people - I am navigating my way into your profession, and would love your advice on the questions in boldface below. I am 40, I have a BA, MA, PhD, postdoc fellowship, and a university career at an Institute for Advanced Study, all at top 20 world-ranked universities in the UK and Australia, but all in History and Philosophy. So it's back to square one.

My goal is to be an excellent psychotherapist in private practice, and to do this as quickly as possible without compromising the quality of my education and training, and without going to medical school (becoming a psychiatrist) as I am simply out of time and money for further degrees of that length. I know for a fact that I do not want to teach in a university setting, or have a research career as a psychologist, or face any pressure to publish papers or books, or indeed write more books unless, I suppose, writing them would help people and attract clients. My only ambition is to open a private practice as a therapist who can help clients make substantive and lasting changes in their life and relationships.

I am currently assessing the graduate programs that are on offer, from an MA in Mental Health through to a PsyD or PhD in Clinical Psych, and would like your help fast tracking that process. I understand that I need to become licensed in my home state (currently TX, but CO and CA are firm possibilities), but even then there are many programs of varying cost and length that could get me licensed to practice, and to various board certifications too (I am trying to work out which ones matter most to my goal of building a client base and being an excellent practitioner). My overarching questions: Do any programs/schools simply stand out to you - the profession - as ones that produce excellent psychotherapists? Do reputable schools matter enough in terms of licensing, ability to practice well, and building a client base? Is a CACREP or MPCAC accredited course essential, and which is best? APA accreditation is out unless I do a PsyD or a PhD. And, given that I know I want to work in private practice: Can I achieve excellence and a client base with a Masters? I realize the latter question is a point of contention, fraught with turf wars, but I would like to hear from practitioners of psychotherapy in private practice - what are your thoughts? The American Psychoanalytic Association (APsaA) have institutes around the country that offer specialist training, post-MA. Currently, this path: 2 year MA, supervised work to get licensed, and then 1-2 year specialist psychotherapy training - strikes me as the best way forward. Yes? No?

Some background/context: I have decided to leave a career as a teaching and research academic. I love my work, but have come to an end of that intellectual journey - at least within the university system, as I have become deeply disenchanted with the increasingly unrealistic expectations forced on academic staff and the consequent diminishment in job security in an esoteric field. All this coincided with meeting my partner, a US citizen, and moving here a few years ago. I am now a permanent resident, and would like a new livelihood using my analytic and personal skills to help people who are suffering. It is possible for us to relocate for my education. But, you might ask - why psychotherapy? Perhaps it is relevant to note that I am a great advertisement for it myself, having undergone extensive psychotherapy - with a psychiatrist - for major depression through my late 20s. That treatment was easily as demanding as my doctorate, if not more so. I am grateful beyond expression that the psychotherapist I found - just a random search on a truly desperate day - ended up being an excellent one. I simply would not be here if he had not been. As I have moved cities/countries a few times, I have sought ongoing counsel with two other psychotherapists, an MA and a PsyD. Ability to prescribe meds aside, they have been just as insightful. So I am attracted to psychodynamic psychotherapy as a modality, but am of course open to all modalities that can allow me to earn a decent livelihood in private practice helping adults, and hopefully kids too, who need it.

Thank you, in advance, for any direction you can give or anything I might have already missed in my research/thinking, and apologies for having written at some length here.

---

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[G Costanza]

Your questions are excellent and have also been asked several times. I'd spend a little time searching on this board and you'll likely learn a lot fairly quickly.

 

[foreverbull]

My goal is to be an excellent psychotherapist in private practice, and to do this as quickly as possible without compromising the quality of my education and training, and without going to medical school (becoming a psychiatrist) as I am simply out of time and money for further degrees of that length. I know for a fact that I do not want to teach in a university setting, or have a research career as a psychologist, or face any pressure to publish papers or books, or indeed write more books unless, I suppose, writing them would help people and attract clients. My only ambition is to open a private practice as a therapist who can help clients make substantive and lasting changes in their life and relationships.

I am currently assessing the graduate programs that are on offer, from an MA in Mental Health through to a PsyD or PhD in Clinical Psych, and would like your help fast tracking that process. I understand that I need to become licensed in my home state (currently TX, but CO and CA are firm possibilities), but even then there are many programs of varying cost and length that could get me licensed to practice, and to various board certifications too (I am trying to work out which ones matter most to my goal of building a client base and being an excellent practitioner). My overarching questions: Do any programs/schools simply stand out to you - the profession - as ones that produce excellent psychotherapists? Do reputable schools matter enough in terms of licensing, ability to practice well, and building a client base? Is a CACREP or MPCAC accredited course essential, and which is best? APA accreditation is out unless I do a PsyD or a PhD. And, given that I know I want to work in private practice: Can I achieve excellence and a client base with a Masters? I realize the latter question is a point of contention, fraught with turf wars, but I would like to hear from practitioners of psychotherapy in private practice - what are your thoughts? The American Psychoanalytic Association (APsaA) have institutes around the country that offer specialist training, post-MA. Currently, this path: 2 year MA, supervised work to get licensed, and then 1-2 year specialist psychotherapy training - strikes me as the best way forward. Yes? No?
I am attracted to psychodynamic psychotherapy as a modality, but am of course open to all modalities that can allow me to earn a decent livelihood in private practice helping adults, and hopefully kids too, who need it.

Thank you, in advance, for any direction you can give or anything I might have already missed in my research/thinking, and apologies for having written at some length here.

Your post touches on threads that come up often, namely, do I get a doctorate or a master's, which is better for my situation, and which program should I choose?

One thing I just want to note before responding is that psychiatrists are not known for their psychotherapy skills in the least (not anymore, anyway), and very few actually practice therapy, so going to medical school to become a psychiatrist isn't a good route to take for solid psychotherapy skills, anyway.

So here's my two cents as someone with a master's and a doctorate, who has worked closely with master's level and doctoral-level practitioners (some currently in private practice):

Master's is good for practicing in a state you are completely settled in, but will not carry into a different state if you move. You will be subject to different requirements by state. Doctorates will be more transferrable state-to-state if you become licensed (licensure requirements vary somewhat, but not as greatly as with master's degrees).

At the master's level, because CACREP sets training standards for master's level graduate schools, I think it's important in that sense. Some folks I know who graduated in a non-CACREP but decent master's program did fine, but they did model their program to fit CACREP standards even though they weren't accredited (my own master's program was terrible and I would never recommend it to anyone). I can't speak to MPCAC. I don't know the specific programs in your state that would be a good fit for you, but make sure there are 3+ semesters of supervised practice before graduation and good theory/multicultural practice courses. You can be an excellent therapist with a masters, but keep in mind you will have less training than a doctorate, so you may feel like your training was too short (I felt that way after my Counseling master's degree prior to going into a doctoral program). That said, you can still specialize with a population of choice via workshops and outside trainings in your area, which are open to all mental health professionals. I know some awesome master's level practitioners whom I would trust a friend or family member to go see, so it is possible. It's also the fastest route, and you can practice privately after getting enough supervised hours. My strong suggestion would be if you go this route, make sure you keep abreast of evidence-based practices and get specialized training (i.e. trauma-related or other types of specialties) to be at the top of your game professionally and to be competitive in the private practice market. Getting additional training in psychoanalytic perspectives after your master's sounds good to me, since it also provides extra training beyond the 2 year master's degree.

At the doctoral level, APA-accreditation is considered just a good standard to go by because APA sets the standards for coursework/training in psychology graduate programs. APA's online list of accredited programs is the way to go for a Counseling or Clinical doctorate (both are fine to meet your practice goals), so you'd have to search those programs in your area and see if they seemed like a good fit.

So if getting the degree fastest is of utmost importance, start comparing CACREP-accredited master's in counseling programs and look at their coursework and training model to see if it fits for you. If getting the MOST training is of utmost importance, you may want to research doctoral programs that have similar training models to your preference in your states of choice. If you plan to get psychoanalytic training after your degree, consider that a doctorate will take an average of 5-7 years prior to that extra training...so you might be "in training" 7-9 years if you go that route.

Generally, psychologists command a bit more respect in the professional world because of their extensive training, but as I said, there are some great master's level therapists out there who make a good living doing private practice (of course, there are bad ones, too). If prestige isn't your thing, a master's might be the best option given your preferences.

Perhaps others can speak to quality programs in TX, CO, or CA?

Best of luck!

 

[deleted343839]

Can I achieve excellence and a client base with a Masters?

As a clinician who often refers to private practitioners, yes, I believe you can.

Achieving excellence means that your learning won't stop at the master's, as you seem to have already figured out. High quality continuing education is expensive, however. By the way, there are very few board certifications that really matter.

Building your practice will require savvy marketing, networking, and matching your skills to the right market.

 

[IncognitoCats]

Foreverbull - Thank you so much for your extensive advice here. It's very helpful and will save me quite a bit of time. I must have caught a rare bird over a decade ago, since my psychiatrist practiced psychotherapy almost exclusively. He has since gone on to become a widely-published leader in his field of perinatal psychiatry. I am curious about why psychotherapy is not a valued modality for psychiatrists? Is it not an EBP? I am just starting to get a grip on the contours of this debate.

Indeed, prestige is not at all my thing. I have 'enjoyed' enough of that in my previous academic life employed at impressive universities and, frankly, found that those who cared much about prestige were almost always the most unoriginal thinkers and uninspiring teachers and researchers. Thankfully, the universities themselves still have the nous to value intellectual ambition over the ego-driven climbers, and to distinguish between them when they can. So I have no hesitation about going for an MA in that respect, especially given that I can only afford about 4 years of solid education and supervised training, time-wise, before becoming licensed - with an understanding that I would be investing in my education in an ongoing way thereafter via certificates and trainings (something I really look forward to). I will be vigilant about stripping Prof. and Dr. as titles of mine in any world I have as a therapist, and from my public online presence too - as much as I can.

Having said that, I want to shoot for the most prestigious degree and/or school I can go to within those time constraints of mine, *if* it really means that I would a) become a much better psychotherapist and b) that I would build a client base more reliably because referring professionals would note my school/education utmost. Is that a well-founded assumption to have? I forgot to mention that NY and NJ are also possibilities for me. If I could prevail upon you and any other readers here: are there any terminal MA programs that your profession rates particularly highly in TX, CO, CA, NY, and NJ?

I have, of course, come upon all the online degree and/or degree-mill advertisements, and am leery of them and I am examining the discussions of those carefully in this rich forum here. I wonder if any of you have a good opinion of online degrees from reputable schools? Because it strikes me that question may no longer be oxymoronic. I note that NYU is offering their MA in Mental Health Counseling online and that it is identical to the campus course, same contact hours, same faculty teachers, same assessment, identical degrees. But it is not CACREP accredited, it is MPCAC accredited. I am also becoming aware of some well-founded tensions about CACREP's hegemony in accreditation. The NYU faculty seem excellent. Just as an aside, it seems that the difference between these two accreditation agencies, outside of their agreed common course components towards a license to practice as a therapist, is that MPCAC will also accredit programs whose faculty are primarily psychologists, but CACREP will not. I am struggling to understand this battle. Outside mere precedent, then, I am trying to answer this question: what is the educational gold in CACREP as the 'gold standard'?

Again, I have gone on too long here and I do not wish to take up so much time! Thank you again for your advice. It feels very good to start to get to know folks in what I hope will be my new profession.

 

[WisNeuro]

Foreverbull - Thank you so much for your extensive advice here. It's very helpful and will save me quite a bit of time. I must have caught a rare bird over a decade ago, since my psychiatrist practiced psychotherapy almost exclusively. He has since gone on to become a widely-published leader in his field of perinatal psychiatry. I am curious about why psychotherapy is not a valued modality for psychiatrists? Is it not an EBP? I am just starting to get a grip on the contours of this debate.
QUOTE]

Because prescribing medications and doing 15 minute med checks pays much better.

 

[IncognitoCats]

MamaPhD - Thanks for that advice. I am relieved that it is possible to be an excellent practitioner in private practice with an MA. I see that building a practice will take a lot of work - business sense and administrative abilities etc., as well as the skills you mention. If I may, could you tell me which board certifications would matter to you as someone who would refer a client to someone like future me?

 

[IncognitoCats]

Because prescribing medications and doing 15 minute med checks pays much better.

In that case, I believe there are grounds to doubt their own mental health.

 

[WisNeuro]

In that case, I believe there are grounds to doubt their own mental health.

Meh, it's just what has happened in the US Healthcare system. That's what psychiatrists in many systems are hired to do. If you have a high productivity goal to meet, you tailor your services to meet that goal. There is a huge demand for groups, especially gero-focused groups in my system. Can I do that? Sure. But the RVU productivity compared to what I bill for neuropsychological testing is laughable. Besides, my neuro assessment referral list is exploding at the moment, so I have no need to fill my schedule with non assessment work. Them's just the breaks of the world we live in.

 

[IncognitoCats]

Your post touches on threads that come up often, namely, do I get a doctorate or a master's, which is better for my situation, and which program should I choose?

One thing I just want to note before responding is that psychiatrists are not known for their psychotherapy skills in the least (not anymore, anyway), and very few actually practice therapy, so going to medical school to become a psychiatrist isn't a good route to take for solid psychotherapy skills, anyway.

So here's my two cents as someone with a master's and a doctorate, who has worked closely with master's level and doctoral-level practitioners (some currently in private practice):

Master's is good for practicing in a state you are completely settled in, but will not carry into a different state if you move. You will be subject to different requirements by state. Doctorates will be more transferrable state-to-state if you become licensed (licensure requirements vary somewhat, but not as greatly as with master's degrees).

At the master's level, because CACREP sets training standards for master's level graduate schools, I think it's important in that sense. Some folks I know who graduated in a non-CACREP but decent master's program did fine, but they did model their program to fit CACREP standards even though they weren't accredited (my own master's program was terrible and I would never recommend it to anyone). I can't speak to MPCAC. I don't know the specific programs in your state that would be a good fit for you, but make sure there are 3+ semesters of supervised practice before graduation and good theory/multicultural practice courses. You can be an excellent therapist with a masters, but keep in mind you will have less training than a doctorate, so you may feel like your training was too short (I felt that way after my Counseling master's degree prior to going into a doctoral program). That said, you can still specialize with a population of choice via workshops and outside trainings in your area, which are open to all mental health professionals. I know some awesome master's level practitioners whom I would trust a friend or family member to go see, so it is possible. It's also the fastest route, and you can practice privately after getting enough supervised hours. My strong suggestion would be if you go this route, make sure you keep abreast of evidence-based practices and get specialized training (i.e. trauma-related or other types of specialties) to be at the top of your game professionally and to be competitive in the private practice market. Getting additional training in psychoanalytic perspectives after your master's sounds good to me, since it also provides extra training beyond the 2 year master's degree.

At the doctoral level, APA-accreditation is considered just a good standard to go by because APA sets the standards for coursework/training in psychology graduate programs. APA's online list of accredited programs is the way to go for a Counseling or Clinical doctorate (both are fine to meet your practice goals), so you'd have to search those programs in your area and see if they seemed like a good fit.

So if getting the degree fastest is of utmost importance, start comparing CACREP-accredited master's in counseling programs and look at their coursework and training model to see if it fits for you. If getting the MOST training is of utmost importance, you may want to research doctoral programs that have similar training models to your preference in your states of choice. If you plan to get psychoanalytic training after your degree, consider that a doctorate will take an average of 5-7 years prior to that extra training...so you might be "in training" 7-9 years if you go that route.

Generally, psychologists command a bit more respect in the professional world because of their extensive training, but as I said, there are some great master's level therapists out there who make a good living doing private practice (of course, there are bad ones, too). If prestige isn't your thing, a master's might be the best option given your preferences.

Perhaps others can speak to quality programs in TX, CO, or CA?

Best of luck!

Foreverbull - Thank you so much for your extensive advice here. It's very helpful and will save me quite a bit of time. I must have caught a rare bird over a decade ago, since my psychiatrist practiced psychotherapy almost exclusively. He has since gone on to become a widely-published leader in his field of perinatal psychiatry. I am curious about why psychotherapy is not a valued modality for psychiatrists? Is it not an EBP? I am just starting to get a grip on the contours of this debate.

Indeed, prestige is not at all my thing. I have 'enjoyed' enough of that in my previous academic life employed at impressive universities and, frankly, found that those who cared much about prestige were almost always the most unoriginal thinkers and uninspiring teachers and researchers. Thankfully, the universities themselves still have the nous to value intellectual ambition over the ego-driven climbers, and to distinguish between them when they can. So I have no hesitation about going for an MA in that respect, especially given that I can only afford about 4 years of solid education and supervised training, time-wise, before becoming licensed - with an understanding that I would be investing in my education in an ongoing way thereafter via certificates and trainings (something I really look forward to). I will be vigilant about stripping Prof. and Dr. as titles of mine in any world I have as a therapist, and from my public online presence too - as much as I can.

Having said that, I want to shoot for the most prestigious degree and/or school I can go to within those time constraints of mine, *if* it really means that I would a) become a much better psychotherapist and b) that I would build a client base more reliably because referring professionals would note my school/education utmost. Is that a well-founded assumption to have? I forgot to mention that NY and NJ are also possibilities for me. If I could prevail upon you and any other readers here: are there any terminal MA programs that your profession rates particularly highly in TX, CO, CA, NY, and NJ?

I have, of course, come upon all the online degree and/or degree-mill advertisements, and am leery of them and I am examining the discussions of those carefully in this rich forum here. I wonder if any of you have a good opinion of online degrees from reputable schools? Because it strikes me that question may no longer be oxymoronic. I note that NYU is offering their MA in Mental Health Counseling online and that it is identical to the campus course, same contact hours, same faculty teachers, same assessment, identical degrees. But it is not CACREP accredited, it is MPCAC accredited. I am also becoming aware of some well-founded tensions about CACREP's hegemony in accreditation. The NYU faculty seem excellent. Just as an aside, it seems that the difference between these two accreditation agencies, outside of their agreed common course components towards a license to practice as a therapist, is that MPCAC will also accredit programs whose faculty are primarily psychologists, but CACREP will not. I am struggling to understand this battle. Outside mere precedent, then, I am trying to answer this question: what is the educational gold in CACREP as the 'gold standard'?

Again, I have gone on too long here and I do not wish to take up so much time! Thank you again for your advice. It feels very good to start to get to know folks in what I hope will be my new profession.

 

[IncognitoCats]

As a clinician who often refers to private practitioners, yes, I believe you can.

Achieving excellence means that your learning won't stop at the master's, as you seem to have already figured out. High quality continuing education is expensive, however. By the way, there are very few board certifications that really matter.

Building your practice will require savvy marketing, networking, and matching your skills to the right market.

MamaPhD - Thanks for that advice. I am relieved that it is possible to be an excellent practitioner in private practice with an MA. I see that building a practice will take a lot of work - business sense and administrative abilities etc., as well as the skills you mention. If I may, could you tell me which board certifications would matter to you as someone who would refer a client to someone like future me?

 

[WisNeuro]

Are you repeating your own posts? Or is there a system error?

 

[IncognitoCats]

Are you repeating your own posts? Or is there a system error?

Apologies, I am new and see that it might be more useful to quote the post I am replying to inside my reply.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Apologies, I am new and see that it might be more useful to quote the post I am replying to inside my reply.

It took me a little while to figure out the quoting thing too, when quoting other than with the "reply" button.

 

[foreverbull]

It's my understanding that psychiatrists lack the psychology bachelor's degree, for one, since it's not a requirement for medical school. Two, they have general medical school courses, so not as much time spent learning about psychotherapy modalities/foundations. Three, they're thrown into residency in hospitals after medical school, where they learn psychotherapy skills on the fly as they prescribe meds, diagnose, and treat patients. Whatever they learn/treat in those 4 years will largely depend on their supervisors'/hospital models of care (they may not have much training in psychotherapy skills at all if the focus is diagnosis/prescribing). In short, they have a much less well-rounded psychotherapy/psychology foundations/modalities education and begin practice on the fly without any true didactic training first (other than a brief overview in medical school). Only 1 in 3 psychiatrists provided psychotherapy some of the time back in 2005 (from a study, don't recall the author), and only 1 in 10 all of the time. That may have decreased since then. So psychotherapy doesn't seem to be a strong priority in the medical field anymore, it seems, although prior to the growth/influx of pharmaceuticals, psychiatrists were generally therapists. Per a Psychology Today article (a little outdated, but relevant): "...psychiatric residency programs, for the most part, don't emphasize psychotherapy training-- the resident has to pursue it. A psychiatry resident was recently telling me about a patient who wanted insight-oriented psychotherapy and the resident said, 'We just don't have time in residency to do that.'"

Bottom line, less training didactically, and less psychotherapy practice in residency = doesn't come close to matching psychology doctorates for both didactic training and practice of psychotherapy skills.

Unfortunately, I can't speak to great terminal master's programs out there because most psychologists/doctoral students have limited knowledge of/interaction with master's students and their programs. I know of local programs in CA, but I don't know how good they are. I can't speak to the CACREP/MPCAC controversy, but some standards are better than none, speaking from someone who got a non-accredited master's degree that provided nowhere near enough preparation for counseling. You could go for either accreditation, depending on preference.

I would avoid online degrees, personally, because people will not be impressed with degrees from institutions they've never heard of, and if they have heard of them, but see that it was online, they might doubt your abilities as a therapist. In the helping professions, we get enough doubting of our skills/value without adding an online degree into the mix. I don't think the investment in an online degree will provide the return you're looking for in terms of training quality.

 

[IncognitoCats]

It's my understanding that psychiatrists lack the psychology bachelor's degree, for one, since it's not a requirement for medical school. Two, they have general medical school courses, so not as much time spent learning about psychotherapy modalities/foundations. Three, they're thrown into residency in hospitals after medical school, where they learn psychotherapy skills on the fly as they prescribe meds, diagnose, and treat patients. Whatever they learn/treat in those 4 years will largely depend on their supervisors'/hospital models of care (they may not have much training in psychotherapy skills at all if the focus is diagnosis/prescribing). In short, they have a much less well-rounded psychotherapy/psychology foundations/modalities education and begin practice on the fly without any true didactic training first (other than a brief overview in medical school). Only 1 in 3 psychiatrists provided psychotherapy some of the time back in 2005 (from a study, don't recall the author), and only 1 in 10 all of the time. That may have decreased since then. So psychotherapy doesn't seem to be a strong priority in the medical field anymore, it seems, although prior to the growth/influx of pharmaceuticals, psychiatrists were generally therapists. Per a Psychology Today article (a little outdated, but relevant): "...psychiatric residency programs, for the most part, don't emphasize psychotherapy training-- the resident has to pursue it. A psychiatry resident was recently telling me about a patient who wanted insight-oriented psychotherapy and the resident said, 'We just don't have time in residency to do that.'"

Bottom line, less training didactically, and less psychotherapy practice in residency = doesn't come close to matching psychology doctorates for both didactic training and practice of psychotherapy skills.

Unfortunately, I can't speak to great terminal master's programs out there because most psychologists/doctoral students have limited knowledge of/interaction with master's students and their programs. I know of local programs in CA, but I don't know how good they are. I can't speak to the CACREP/MPCAC controversy, but some standards are better than none, speaking from someone who got a non-accredited master's degree that provided nowhere near enough preparation for counseling. You could go for either accreditation, depending on preference.

I would avoid online degrees, personally, because people will not be impressed with degrees from institutions they've never heard of, and if they have heard of them, but see that it was online, they might doubt your abilities as a therapist. In the helping professions, we get enough doubting of our skills/value without adding an online degree into the mix. I don't think the investment in an online degree will provide the return you're looking for in terms of training quality.

Thanks again for your input - I really appreciate your time. I am coming to understand the great difference within and between the professions of psychiatrist (MD, PhD), psychologist (PsyD, PhD), and counselor (MA), in this country; how all three educations relate to possible excellence as a psychotherapy specialist here; and how it is all very different from the situation in the UK and Australia. I have been reading every word of the professional standards for the APA and the NBCC, also researching the various turf wars and guild mentalities at work in the present as I examine the history of the professional associations and the emergence of the professions themselves in the past. A sociology of scientific knowledge graduate student would have a perfect research project right here!

As far as online degrees go, the profession is right to be very wary indeed - degree mills are a clear and present danger, especially in a country that charges as the USA does for quality higher education. I am trying to disqualify an online Masters at NYU on this basis, but here they are: they have an excellent reputation, psychotherapy-oriented, accredited by MPCAC (because there are too many science-practitioner psychologists teaching their skills as therapists to masters students there for old "counselors-only" CACREP). They are emphatic that there is no difference between the campus and online degrees. They will also refuse applicants in states where the NYU MA cannot lead directly to licensing in that home state, and they locate and vet the sites for internships near your home locations:
"FAQ: What is Counseling@NYU?
Counseling@NYU offers online master’s degree programs in counseling from NYU using the same academic standards and curriculum as the on-campus programs and taught by distinguished NYU faculty.
Will my diploma indicate that I earned my degree online? No. You will earn a diploma stating that you earned a Master of Arts in Counseling for Mental Health and Wellness from New York University."

Gotta say, that is appealing to someone who wants a quality education without moving interstate. I'm still ranging through the quickest paths to the best quality education possible to be of great service to clients as a private practitioner. Onwards and upwards...

 

[WisNeuro]

As far as online degrees go, the profession is right to be very wary indeed - degree mills are a clear and present danger, especially in a country that charges as the USA does for quality higher education. I am trying to disqualify an online Masters at NYU on this basis, but here they are: they have an excellent reputation, psychotherapy-oriented, accredited by MPCAC (because there are too many science-practitioner psychologists teaching their skills as therapists to masters students there for old "counselors-only" CACREP). They are emphatic that there is no difference between the campus and online degrees. They will also refuse applicants in states where the NYU MA cannot lead directly to licensing in that home state, and they locate and vet the sites for internships near your home locations:

Unlikely. Within the clinical discplines, B&M institutions can at least manage a trunk of the clinical training and supervision in-house and/or have close relationships with outside clinical externships. Online degrees do not do this. Some of my colleagues have been approached by one of the online degree institutions to supervise their students. The oversight is laughable, they, of course, refused. You may walk out with a degree that says the same thing, it is doubtful that you will walk out with the same quality of clinical training from an online only degree

 

[singasongofjoy]

I have been reading every word of the professional standards for the APA and the NBCC, also researching the various turf wars and guild mentalities at work in the present as I examine the history of the professional associations and the emergence of the professions themselves in the past.

Just wanted to let you know as an FYI, there are 2 relevant APA organizations- the one for psychiatry, and the one for psychology. The acronyms can be confusing at times and you may want to make sure you're taking a look at both if you're still in deciding mode.

 

[IncognitoCats]

Just wanted to let you know as an FYI, there are 2 relevant APA organizations- the one for psychiatry, and the one for psychology. The acronyms can be confusing at times and you may want to make sure you're taking a look at both if you're still in deciding mode.

Thanks - yes, I've looked at both but the one I meant above is for psychology.