PsyD Programs

[PsyD1]

Hi everyone,

I am currently deciding between three different PsyD programs:

1) The Florida School or Professional Psychology- Clinical Psychology
2) Kean University- Combined School and Clinical Psychology
3) The Chicago School of Professional Psychology (DC campus) -Clinical Psychology

I think all three are good options, so at this point I am trying to figure out what program is going to give me the most confidence in becoming a future Psychologist as well as offer the best academic experience and prepare me for practicum/internship.
At this point I feel like I know everything I need to know about the programs, but I am still really struggling to decide because of all of the similarities and differences. I am curious to hear advice on what else is important to consider when choosing a program besides what my personal interests are (which I definitely need some direction from faculty with).
Ultimately, I am struggling to pick a school so if anyone knows these schools/programs specifically or has advice on how to choose any information would help.


Thank you so much,
Grace

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[WisNeuro]

1) One of the worst EPPP pass rates in the entire country, in addition to other terrible metrics
2) Somewhat concerning licensure rate
3) The CSPPs in aggregate are some of the worst programs I can think of regarding their objective metrics. Just don't

 

[BrainStormer]

As Wis mentioned, look at those objective metrics. Check the programs' APA internship match rate, EPPP pass rate, and licensure percentage as these are good indicators of the quality of a program.

After a brief search myself, here's what I found...

Florida:
*it looks like there is very limited data due to the school transition & it only shows these past two years, with APA match of 89-100%
https://nl.edu/media/nledu/content-...tudent-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data.pdf
*EPPP 2020-2022 pass rate 34%
*licensure not yet listed

Kean:
*APA match rate over 7 years ranges from 40-100%
*EPPP 2017-2022 pass rate 72-80%
*Licensure 83%

Chicago School (DC):
*APA match rate over 7 years ranges from 83-97%
*EPPP 2017-2022 pass rate 0-45%
*Licensure 80%

Check out EPPP pass rates by school:

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/eppp_/asppbdoctoralreport2023.pdf

I believe the general rule of thumb is to aim for 85% or higher in each of these categories. Hope this helps in your search for a program!

 

[psych.meout]

Kean:
*APA match rate over 7 years ranges from 40-100%
*EPPP 2017-2022 pass rate 72-80%
*Licensure 83%

And their match rate is as low as 11% in the 2014-2015 cycle.

 

[BrainStormer]

Other factors you may want to consider are cohort size and program reputation. A cohort with too many students impacts the quality of learning and raises questions about quality control. Another note... professional schools tend to have dubious reputations which carries a stigma. This can certainly negatively impact the way practicum sites or internships perceive your application.

 

[PsyD1]

1) One of the worst EPPP pass rates in the entire country, in addition to other terrible metrics
2) Somewhat concerning licensure rate
3) The CSPPs in aggregate are some of the worst programs I can think of regarding their objective metrics. Just don't

1) Could you tell me what the other metrics are that you are referring to
3) What about the CSPP do you think doesn't does not make the reputation great as you had mentioned?

 

[PsyD1]

Other factors you may want to consider are cohort size and program reputation. A cohort with too many students impacts the quality of learning and raises questions about quality control. Another note... professional schools tend to have dubious reputations which carries a stigma. This can certainly negatively impact the way practicum sites or internships perceive your application.

Hi, thank you for your response. What do you would be better, having 1 section of classes per each cohort, or there being multiple sections to the same course?

 

[PsyD1]

As Wis mentioned, look at those objective metrics. Check the programs' APA internship match rate, EPPP pass rate, and licensure percentage as these are good indicators of the quality of a program.

After a brief search myself, here's what I found...

Florida:
*it looks like there is very limited data due to the school transition & it only shows these past two years, with APA match of 89-100%
https://nl.edu/media/nledu/content-...tudent-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data.pdf
*EPPP 2020-2022 pass rate 34%
*licensure not yet listed

Kean:
*APA match rate over 7 years ranges from 40-100%
*EPPP 2017-2022 pass rate 72-80%
*Licensure 83%

Chicago School (DC):
*APA match rate over 7 years ranges from 83-97%
*EPPP 2017-2022 pass rate 0-45%
*Licensure 80%

Check out EPPP pass rates by school:

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/eppp_/asppbdoctoralreport2023.pdf

I believe the general rule of thumb is to aim for 85% or higher in each of these categories. Hope this helps in your search for a program!

Hi, thank you so much for your response looking more into the details of each school. The EPPP pass rate was definatley not something that I had looked into much and I appreciate the advice. From that I think that I could eliminate TCSPP because of the EPPP pass rate.
I was wondering where you found the EPPP 2020-2022 pass rate of 34% for FSPP because looking through the 2023 exam scores it was not showing a pass rate and that is a concerning percentage. I was also wondering if you had any thoughts about a combined School and Clinical Psychology PsyD program.
Thank you again,
Grace

 

[PsyD1]

Other factors you may want to consider are cohort size and program reputation. A cohort with too many students impacts the quality of learning and raises questions about quality control. Another note... professional schools tend to have dubious reputations which carries a stigma. This can certainly negatively impact the way practicum sites or internships perceive your application.

I was also curious to hear your thoughts about FSPP.
From the outside it is a relativley newer program, but the professors have stayed the same from Argosy U. ‐ Tampa to FSPP as well as what you think about the name attached and the university that funds FSPP which is National Louis.

 

[BrainStormer]

Hi, thank you so much for your response looking more into the details of each school. The EPPP pass rate was definatley not something that I had looked into much and I appreciate the advice. From that I think that I could eliminate TCSPP because of the EPPP pass rate.
I was wondering where you found the EPPP 2020-2022 pass rate of 34% for FSPP because looking through the 2023 exam scores it was not showing a pass rate and that is a concerning percentage. I was also wondering if you had any thoughts about a combined School and Clinical Psychology PsyD program.
Thank you again,
Grace

I think you are probably looking on page 18 where it shows N is 4 or less (*), meaning they did not list a percentage for 2017-2019 due to low sample size. But looking at the percent correct by content area, it is very low. The 34% comes from the more recent 2020-2022 EPPP data on page 38 for Florida. I really have no familiarity with combined programs so I cannot speak into that.

 

[BrainStormer]

I was also curious to hear your thoughts about FSPP.
From the outside it is a relativley newer program, but the professors have stayed the same from Argosy U. ‐ Tampa to FSPP as well as what you think about the name attached and the university that funds FSPP which is National Louis.

I am not directly familiar with any of the three programs you are deciding between, so I am speaking based off the objective stats. I personally would not recommend the Florida school with an EPPP pass rate that low. Ultimately, passing the EPPP is how you obtain licensure so you can actually practice psychology independently.

Is anything preventing you from applying to more programs?

 

[PsyD1]

I think you are probably looking on page 18 where it shows N is 4 or less (*), meaning they did not list a percentage for 2017-2019 due to low sample size. But looking at the percent correct by content area, it is very low. The 34% comes from the more recent 2020-2022 EPPP data on page 38 for Florida. I really have no familiarity with combined programs so I cannot speak into that.

Okay I understand now thank you. Do you think that these percentages is something that I can heavily base my decision off of, or no because of COVID and the closure of Argosy?

 

[BrainStormer]

Okay I understand now thank you. Do you think that these percentages is something that I can heavily base my decision off of, or no because of COVID and the closure of Argosy?

I think it would be wise to factor in these stats to your decision in choosing a program. If you cannot land an internship or get licensed after all those years in a program, you would essentially be stuck. Think about finding a program that is strong at a foundational level as this opens doors for prac placements, internship, post doc, etc... Also factor in program fit.

 

[PsyD1]

I am not directly familiar with any of the three programs you are deciding between, so I am speaking based off the objective stats. I personally would not recommend the Florida school with an EPPP pass rate that low. Ultimately, passing the EPPP is how you obtain licensure so you can actually practice psychology independently.

Is anything preventing you from applying to more programs?

Okay so would you say that I weighing the stats of the EPPP is more important than the APA match rate?
I would like to start in the fall which is what is preventing me from applying to more programs since the deadlines have passed.

 

[BrainStormer]

Okay so would you say that I weighing the stats of the EPPP is more important than the APA match rate?
I would like to start in the fall which is what is preventing me from applying to more programs since the deadlines have passed.

I think they’re both important, but I’m sure others can speak into this. The APA internship is the step before the EPPP.

 

[PsyD1]

I think it would be wise to factor in these stats to your decision in choosing a program. If you cannot land an internship or get licensed after all those years in a program, you would essentially be stuck. Think about finding a program that is strong at a foundational level as this opens doors for prac placements, internship, post doc, etc... Also factor in program fit.

Yes and that is one of my greatest fears. I am just not sure what program is going to give me the better change at securing those internships, preparing me for the EPPP, and ultimatley giving me that strong foundation. The APA match rate at FSPP is higher while the licensure rate at Kean is higher.
As far as program fit what they offer is very different. Kean has the school aspect to the program, a small cohort, and the opporunity for more research. FSPP has a medium size cohort (of about 30), more of a broad academic experience, and more diversity amoung faculty members.

 

[BrainStormer]

Yes and that is one of my greatest fears. I am just not sure what program is going to give me the better change at securing those internships, preparing me for the EPPP, and ultimatley giving me that strong foundation. The APA match rate at FSPP is higher while the licensure rate at Kean is higher.
As far as program fit what they offer is very different. Kean has the school aspect to the program, a small cohort, and the opporunity for more research. FSPP has a medium size cohort (of about 30), more of a broad academic experience, and more diversity amoung faculty members.

If you’re having those fears about the three programs you applied for, it might be worth it to take a gap year and work as a research coordinator or research assistant and then reapply to other schools during the next cycle. This could open doors into a reputable PhD or PsyD program. A doctoral program is a 5-7 year commitment, so you ideally want to feel good about which one you choose.

 

[psych.meout]

Yes and that is one of my greatest fears. I am just not sure what program is going to give me the better change at securing those internships, preparing me for the EPPP, and ultimatley giving me that strong foundation. The APA match rate at FSPP is higher while the licensure rate at Kean is higher.
As far as program fit what they offer is very different. Kean has the school aspect to the program, a small cohort, and the opporunity for more research. FSPP has a medium size cohort (of about 30), more of a broad academic experience, and more diversity amoung faculty members.

The secret fourth option that would solve these issues is "none of the above."

 

[summerbabe]

There are great future psychologists at subpar programs and subpar future psychologists at programs with great stats.

If a student at a fully funded program ends up not being able to work as a psychologist, it's a lot of time wasted but ultimately, they likely won't be in a huge financial hole.

If a student at a self-pay PsyD is not able to get licensed, that's both a lot of time wasted plus a mountain of debt.

I live in a cheap CoL state where the median home price is $166,000, which is similar to the sticker price of a typical PsyD program (not accounting for future interest accruing).

If somebody in the market for a $166,000 home was told that there was an 20% chance that they could fork over all that money but they would actually get nothing and an 80% chance they would get the house, that would be insane.

This is not a perfect parallel but a lower tier, full self-pay PsyD program is a massive gamble with one's finances, education, and career. Do not let a PsyD program's self-interested marketing tell you otherwise!

Your options are:
1. Take the gamble and hope it works out (but even if you're part of the ~80%, you'll still have a mountain of debt that will absolutely impact future life choices such as renting vs owning a home, lifestyle, family planning, etc)
2. Decline these offers, spend 1-2 years improving your CV and become competitive for a funded PhD/PsyD program (it's very, very doable with some degree of sacrifice)
3. Look into master's level licensure for therapy (MSW, LPC, MFT) which requires significantly less time and money than a PsyD