Pursuing a Ph.D. outside the United States

[ThatGuy15]

Hello! I am currently a senior at a 4-year university pursuing my studies in applied psychology. My goal is to pursue a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology and specializing in neuropsychology.

As of right now, because of my personal situation, I am planning to pursue a Ph.D. outside of the United States. I need some help with the whole international educational system and how this works. I am planning on studying clinical psychology in England, more specifically in Manchester. I took a quick look at the University of Manchester's psychology programs and I noticed certain degree programs that I've never seen before.

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience or information that is related to the current situation that I am in now. I would also really appreciate if anyone can provide me with any tips or advice on how to find more information and resources regarding the UK system (especially with postgraduate studies).

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Chyby]

In UK, you have two different doctoral studies for clinical psychology.

1. PhD - an academic degree which you earn by carrying out a substantial piece of original research and by writing a thesis which is then examined orally.
2. DClinPsy - The Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, a vocational training program which enables you to register as a Practitioner Psychologist in the category Clinical Psychology with the HPC, which is necessary to work as a Clinical Psychologist in the UK.

The PhD is different than the one in US, it's just research based with some courses.
The DClinPsy is a standard 3 year degree, the only one that will allow you to practice clinical psychology and then neuropsychology. The curriculum is the same everywhere, it doesn't matter if you graduated from Manchester, Oxford, UCL and so on because you have standard 6 months placements (adult + mental heath when you also get CBT training, old and neuro, child and adolescent mental health services, learning disabilities + a one year long of specialization where you can pick a placement from your favourite area. DClinPsy also involves research and writing a thesis and an oral examination, but this research is on a much smaller scale than a PhD and constitutes only one part of training, which also involves clinical practice and other academic work. You are employed by the National Health Service as a trainee, you work 3-4 full time days a week (1 reserved for courses, 1 for self-study, 4 days of work during summer and university vacations), depending on your placement. NHS provides the funding for tuition for UK or EU citizens. If you don't have any of these you will have to apply to self-funded places. You can read about this degree here: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/funding.html . The Clearing House is the service in charge with applications.

If you want to work as a neuropsychologist there, there is a another process to complete after you get the DClinPsy.

What other degree programs have you seen there?

 

[ThatGuy15]

In UK, you have two different doctoral studies for clinical psychology.

1. PhD - an academic degree which you earn by carrying out a substantial piece of original research and by writing a thesis which is then examined orally.
2. DClinPsy - The Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, a vocational training program which enables you to register as a Practitioner Psychologist in the category Clinical Psychology with the HPC, which is necessary to work as a Clinical Psychologist in the UK.

The PhD is different than the one in US, it's just research based with some courses.
The DClinPsy is a standard 3 year degree, the only one that will allow you to practice clinical psychology and then neuropsychology. The curriculum is the same everywhere, it doesn't matter if you graduated from Manchester, Oxford, UCL and so on because you have standard 6 months placements (adult + mental heath when you also get CBT training, old and neuro, child and adolescent mental health services, learning disabilities + a one year long of specialization where you can pick a placement from your favourite area. DClinPsy also involves research and writing a thesis and an oral examination, but this research is on a much smaller scale than a PhD and constitutes only one part of training, which also involves clinical practice and other academic work. You are employed by the National Health Service as a trainee, you work 3-4 full time days a week (1 reserved for courses, 1 for self-study, 4 days of work during summer and university vacations), depending on your placement. NHS provides the funding for tuition for UK or EU citizens. If you don't have any of these you will have to apply to self-funded places. You can read about this degree here: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/funding.html . The Clearing House is the service in charge with applications.

If you want to work as a neuropsychologist there, there is a another process to complete after you get the DClinPsy.

What other degree programs have you seen there?

Thank you for your informative answer. It sounds as though the DClinPsy is equivalent to the Psy.D. here in the U.S. And yes, there are two different degree options that I saw: Psychiatry PhD/MPhil & Psychology PhD/MPhil. I'm not so sure what an MPhil. degree is.

Also, if I do end up pursuing a Ph.D. in England, will it be possible to also practice here in the U.S.?

Thanks!

 

[bmedclinic]

Thank you for your informative answer. It sounds as though the DClinPsy is equivalent to the Psy.D. here in the U.S.

Also, if I do end up pursuing a Ph.D. in England, will it be possible to also practice here in the U.S.?

Thanks!

From people on here and that I've known in real life, I must say- my understanding is that those degrees may *seem* equivalent on paper, but in terms of licensing, they are not. Someone in the US with a PsyD should be licensed at the doctorate level (provided all their ducks are in a row, pass EPPP, etc). Whereas my understanding is that you cannot bring a DClinPsy over "the pond" and get licensed here (in the US at all).

I know people from the UK that have come to the US to get their degree primarily because they were not sure where theyd like to practice and knew they could likely have difficulty getting the DClinPsy to be licensed at the doctoral level or at all in the US, but that their Ph.D. from the US would give them a "leg up" in the UK.

 

[neurobain]

If you want to practice in the U.S., your life will be exponentially easier if you attend an APA-accredited doctoral program and internship within the U.S. If you just want to do research, then go with the program that best aligns with your research interests.

 

[Chyby]

MPhil is Master's of Philosophy in something...a master's of reaserch, all you do is research for a thesis. Many people from UK are using a MPhil to get into DClinPsy, because the admission committees are also looking for previous research experience.

Keep in mind what bmedclinic stated above. DClinPsy may seem equivalent on paper, looks like a PsyD, but when you compare their courses, APA approved PhDs have more. I would not be surprised if someone with a DClinPsy will be asked to do an APA-PhD because that degree will not be recognized or some respecialization program to complete his courses. But that is up to state boards so you should check with them to get an official answer. Bringing a PhD from USA to get licensed in UK is easier, lot of paperwork, proofs that you have completed rotations that cover the population from DClinPsy. If you want to get back to US and practice neuropsychology, think about postdocs in neuropsych and their requirements. I don't know what happens if you go through the entire process of getting qualified as a neuropsychologist in UK and then apply for licensure in US. Here is the official document from British Psychological Society: http://www.bps.org.uk/system/files/Public files/Quals/QICN/qicn_candidate_handbook.pdf . Please note that this document is available for people with a DClinPsy or an equivalent PhD obtained abroad. Everything written in that document is not part of DClinPsy training, and let's say that you will go this route, after DClinPsy you will need to get a job as a clinical psychologist working in a neuropsych setting, finish the neuropsych academic training and here comes another issue. You can choose a taught MA/MsC in Neuropsychology or self-study.

Few people are getting into DClinPsy in UK straight after undergrad. Admission committees are looking for previous clinical and research experience, they want you to get exposed to the field before you decide to apply. They also want clinical experience in NHS. I was looking into DClinPsy in 2014, and at that time, many British people told me that they don't accept people straight from abroad for funded places, you have to move there for at least one year, find a paid/volunteer position on the NHS to prove them that you are committed to stay in UK after graduation. If you don't have UK/EU citizenship and if you really want that degree, you should check how they handle applications for self-funded places. Even if you have money for tuition, you will still need money to live. Like I've written above, trainees are employed, non UK/EU are not.

 

[soccercat]

I have also heard it is very difficult to practice in the US when receiving degrees outside of the country. Depending on the state you want to work in the number of clinical hours may be an issue (most require 3500-5000) for others it is the classes (some states are very strict with this, but many go based on APA and the courses the APA requires for accreditation). Either way, students are usually lacking and need to make up some additional form of training when coming to the US for clinical practice. Additionally, depending on the type of setting you want to work in, some academic hospitals and all the VAs are requiring APA accredited internships (and in some cases PhD/PsyD programs) for postdocs and/or jobs.

I agree, though, with earlier posters that a research career doesn't always have these limitations. One professor I had received his PhD in Asia somewhere and had no issues with that as he was primarily interested in research/teaching. But I have had some professors tell me there are some schools that look for APA internships if you want to teach Clinical Psych. Another professor ended up doing additional training so he could become licensed to supervise students in a clinic. I believe, though, he was prolific enough the school figured out a way to make that easy for him. But we can't all come to a school 15 years into our career and be handed things on a silver platter!

 

[Istilldontknow]

Is anyone familiar with obtaining a license to practice in another country with an APA accredited psyD from the US? I've heard so many different things but cant find an exact answer. Specifically, I am interested in the Nordic countries or possibly somewhere in Europe.

 

[ThatGuy15]

MPhil is Master's of Philosophy in something...a master's of reaserch, all you do is research for a thesis. Many people from UK are using a MPhil to get into DClinPsy, because the admission committees are also looking for previous research experience.

Keep in mind what bmedclinic stated above. DClinPsy may seem equivalent on paper, looks like a PsyD, but when you compare their courses, APA approved PhDs have more. I would not be surprised if someone with a DClinPsy will be asked to do an APA-PhD because that degree will not be recognized or some respecialization program to complete his courses. But that is up to state boards so you should check with them to get an official answer. Bringing a PhD from USA to get licensed in UK is easier, lot of paperwork, proofs that you have completed rotations that cover the population from DClinPsy. If you want to get back to US and practice neuropsychology, think about postdocs in neuropsych and their requirements. I don't know what happens if you go through the entire process of getting qualified as a neuropsychologist in UK and then apply for licensure in US. Here is the official document from British Psychological Society: http://www.bps.org.uk/system/files/Public files/Quals/QICN/qicn_candidate_handbook.pdf . Please note that this document is available for people with a DClinPsy or an equivalent PhD obtained abroad. Everything written in that document is not part of DClinPsy training, and let's say that you will go this route, after DClinPsy you will need to get a job as a clinical psychologist working in a neuropsych setting, finish the neuropsych academic training and here comes another issue. You can choose a taught MA/MsC in Neuropsychology or self-study.

Few people are getting into DClinPsy in UK straight after undergrad. Admission committees are looking for previous clinical and research experience, they want you to get exposed to the field before you decide to apply. They also want clinical experience in NHS. I was looking into DClinPsy in 2014, and at that time, many British people told me that they don't accept people straight from abroad for funded places, you have to move there for at least one year, find a paid/volunteer position on the NHS to prove them that you are committed to stay in UK after graduation. If you don't have UK/EU citizenship and if you really want that degree, you should check how they handle applications for self-funded places. Even if you have money for tuition, you will still need money to live. Like I've written above, trainees are employed, non UK/EU are not.

Even though I am a dual citizen (U.S. and Italian), I think I should just stay here in the states to complete my Ph.D. Again, this whole situation is not due to my academics, but personal decisions. Thanks for your informative post.