pWWants are people too [Town wins]

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Well. This is weird

I think I take back my "not wolf reading Clem makes thunal more likely village" given that Thunal is trying to keep a wide POE including Clem despite not saying they're wolf reading Clem (giving themselves more opportunity to move to several places) and strangely putting me and AM in there
because I'm not confident it's Clem. AM stuck her vote almost all phase on moon, and was resistant to voting PSV so yes I think she has a better chance of being scum than most. You're in there because your vote feels most like "oh crap my partner is dying I better vote them" than earlier votes.
 
Tbh, I think there's a good chance you guys are going the wrong direction by keeping it to Clem/me and then not know what to do if it isn't Clem.
 
because I'm not confident it's Clem. AM stuck her vote almost all phase on moon, and was resistant to voting PSV so yes I think she has a better chance of being scum than most. You're in there because your vote feels most like "oh crap my partner is dying I better vote them" than earlier votes.
Did you forget that I'm the reason PSV went over moon? I egged that vote on the entire cycle even if I wasn't physically part of it.
 
Tbh, I think there's a good chance you guys are going the wrong direction by keeping it to Clem/me and then not know what to do if it isn't Clem.
I'd love to hear your (stronger) arguments for others then
 
Yeah, it's not great but that's usually how they're formed.
Eh, if I know I’m likely to go over like I’m champs I tried to form the blocc with myself as an outsider. Even tho I knew I was village I was realistic about thread state.

I’m not overly concerned this game though because I’m pretty sure it’s Clem or Thunal.
 
Eh, if I know I’m likely to go over like I’m champs I tried to form the blocc with myself as an outsider. Even tho I knew I was village I was realistic about thread state.

I’m not overly concerned this game though because I’m pretty sure it’s Clem or Thunal.
Sorry, could you rephrase?
 
Sorry, could you rephrase?
Oh I’m just saying if you’re village and you’re high in the Poe you have to work under the assumption you stand to get yeeted so if you’re going to make a game winning blocc you can’t be in it.

And then saying I’m not concerned this game because I’m pretty sure we have it with the 2 in the POE.
I’ve gone in circles before to consider other possibilities in situations like this and it just wastes my time. I don’t need the time waste this week.
 
Did you forget that I'm the reason PSV went over moon? I egged that vote on the entire cycle even if I wasn't physically part of it.
@Thunal33 Also I’m going to add this out there as an AM defense who saw what thunal saw when I originally moved you down in the Poe. If you just look at vote movement and where AM was putting her Sus I agree it could look like someone shading their packmate without actually having to vote there.
But in the entire context, AM goading moon onto PSV and that ultimately helped push the PSV wagon over, and pushing PSV all cycle? She’s not doing that d1 as a wolf. She doesn’t want to lone wolf a whole game. I honestly think after looking back AM would have moved her vote to hopefully get moon to vote with her off PSV to try and keep her around, not help drive those nails.
 
Oh I’m just saying if you’re village and you’re high in the Poe you have to work under the assumption you stand to get yeeted so if you’re going to make a game winning blocc you can’t be in it.

And then saying I’m not concerned this game because I’m pretty sure we have it with the 2 in the POE.
I’ve gone in circles before to consider other possibilities in situations like this and it just wastes my time. I don’t need the time waste this week.
I'd never operate under that assumption. As a villager, I'm even more lock town than an innocent child. Therefor I'm not an "expendable" that can die. So I completely understand where he's coming from even if I don't agree with it.
 
I'd never operate under that assumption. As a villager, I'm even more lock town than an innocent child. Therefor I'm not an "expendable" that can die. So I completely understand where he's coming from even if I don't agree with it.
Eh
Different strategies then.
I don’t want to lose basing on locking myself as town for everyone else who won’t agree. I’d rather set people up to win without me in that situation.

That is assuming I know all things and am sure I’m right in a scenario which I can sometimes be insufferable about but sometimes right so eh
 
Reread D1. Overall, if it's not Thunal, IDK where else I'd go.

Scattered thoughts:

Got a town ping on Clem (#335), that Santy also agreed with in real-time, so that's nice. Got a big town ping on April for this series of posts (#465 - #469). Frankly, I've run out of steam to explain these, maybe later.

Thunal:
Got some conflicted pings on Thunal - some of her EOD posts don't seem paired with PSV. Like #610, doesn't seem like good positioning for when PSV flips mafia, though I suppose it's possible she's trying to subtly move the wagon off.

But in #486 where she votes me, I don't follow her logic, and a couple other posts I didn't bookmark from earlier felt similar. Like, there's a lot going on, but it doesn't have that towny juice to me.

Also, briefly voting PSV, then voting me again... IDK, on the one hand I would personally be tempted to go for the bus, with permission, but on the other hand the votes were close enough I could still see trying to save her. Or possibly it's just towny waffling with a side of OMGUS, relatable tbh. But I'm not feeling it at this point.

(Sidenote: I hadn't fully processed during EOD that PSV was gonna walk her dog and be gone; if it's really only 2 scum, that gives the remaining one less room to manuever. But, I'm feeling a niggle about PSV voting Santy that might suggest another wolf not being in danger? However, I wouldn't put it past PSV to play it cool; that's what she did in the practice game, where she got a towny misyeet solo, before her own death. So maybe disregard the niggle.)

Genny:
Her D1 still didn't inspire me in either direction. She comes in jokey-jokey, drops a full list, votes PSV, asks a few questions and pokes, and PSV flips. If genny/site meta leans away from D1 hellbussing, then okay, but personally that's not my favorite reason for a town lean. I might trust my Clem town pings over that? But that's a problem for later, if the game's not just over today, tbh.

Although, I just realized I hadn't studied the vc when she voted (#430)... yeah, she had plenty of options to go elsewhere, and I especially felt like an easy push yesterday. Thinking more, in a game this small/long, maximum living mafia is almost certainly better than getting town cred (especially to solo), so yeah. I'd feel more comfortable with town pings from her posting, but off votes she seems towny enough.
 
Reread D1. Overall, if it's not Thunal, IDK where else I'd go.

Scattered thoughts:

Got a town ping on Clem (#335), that Santy also agreed with in real-time, so that's nice. Got a big town ping on April for this series of posts (#465 - #469). Frankly, I've run out of steam to explain these, maybe later.

Thunal:
Got some conflicted pings on Thunal - some of her EOD posts don't seem paired with PSV. Like #610, doesn't seem like good positioning for when PSV flips mafia, though I suppose it's possible she's trying to subtly move the wagon off.

But in #486 where she votes me, I don't follow her logic, and a couple other posts I didn't bookmark from earlier felt similar. Like, there's a lot going on, but it doesn't have that towny juice to me.

Also, briefly voting PSV, then voting me again... IDK, on the one hand I would personally be tempted to go for the bus, with permission, but on the other hand the votes were close enough I could still see trying to save her. Or possibly it's just towny waffling with a side of OMGUS, relatable tbh. But I'm not feeling it at this point.

(Sidenote: I hadn't fully processed during EOD that PSV was gonna walk her dog and be gone; if it's really only 2 scum, that gives the remaining one less room to manuever. But, I'm feeling a niggle about PSV voting Santy that might suggest another wolf not being in danger? However, I wouldn't put it past PSV to play it cool; that's what she did in the practice game, where she got a towny misyeet solo, before her own death. So maybe disregard the niggle.)

Genny:
Her D1 still didn't inspire me in either direction. She comes in jokey-jokey, drops a full list, votes PSV, asks a few questions and pokes, and PSV flips. If genny/site meta leans away from D1 hellbussing, then okay, but personally that's not my favorite reason for a town lean. I might trust my Clem town pings over that? But that's a problem for later, if the game's not just over today, tbh.

Although, I just realized I hadn't studied the vc when she voted (#430)... yeah, she had plenty of options to go elsewhere, and I especially felt like an easy push yesterday. Thinking more, in a game this small/long, maximum living mafia is almost certainly better than getting town cred (especially to solo), so yeah. I'd feel more comfortable with town pings from her posting, but off votes she seems towny enough.
I think it's worth looking at the rest of Clem ISO's at well.

I'm at either both Clem and Thunal were right about each other or both were wrong, which is hilarious.
 
I think it's worth looking at the rest of Clem ISO's at well.

I'm at either both Clem and Thunal were right about each other or both were wrong, which is hilarious.
So is your POE is just Clem/Thunal? Because that's probably fine with me tbh.
 
Day 2 PLANT VOTE TALLY

[3] Thunal33 - samac, moonstermash, Aprilthearab
[1] Clem J - Animal Midwife

4/7

Vote closes TOMORROW at 8pm EST/5pm PST, 7/9/24 (~27 hours).

Note that this game has no hammer vote. Everything is pure deadline/plurality.
 
Like, this is my list from before rereading. If genny moves up, that basically leaves me Clem/Thunal, too.
Really more a question of how big the gap is, with a tiny side of "am I misclearing someone higher up?" But I'm with samac tbh - I don't want to go around in circles second-guessing myself when it could be straightforward. Save worry for D3.

(Or y'all could change your minds again and kill me, wouldn't hurt my feelings lol.)
 
You still have ~20 minutes. That aside, it's always pro-village to self-prez unless you're >99% certain that PSV is both town and a stronger role than you.

It would hurt but it's been really hard to get AI content from her the entire cycle. I have down that she trusts Clem and distrusts Santy.

Yeah. I understand if others want to give moon a chance though.
I wouldn't call one post telling moon to self pres and then not talking about it forcing her to. AM was still on moon the whole day and she spent more time than others did trying to get content from PSV and interact with her. She gave PSV a lot of chances to look towny. If there is something really towny about AM I welcome people's input but I don't see it.
 
Well, if the question is moving I don't understand the purpose of asking it. All that aside though, I kind of want to see something concrete come from this musing. Anyone can say "X voted" but "here's what I think about X voting Y" lets me see that you're gamesolving.

Remind me of the post where you stated you felt strange about my posting?

You don't think it's important to follow up on something you don't understand?

You mean three posts that ended in 30 minutes?
how AM was pushing PSV I think could also be an in to get PSV to react in a towny way and get cleared. Yes AM put a lot of heat on PSV but she never actually voted there and her push was quite open ended/giving PSV a lot of room to look good off it.
 
I wouldn't call one post telling moon to self pres and then not talking about it forcing her to. AM was still on moon the whole day and she spent more time than others did trying to get content from PSV and interact with her. She gave PSV a lot of chances to look towny. If there is something really towny about AM I welcome people's input but I don't see it.
In your opinion, what should I have said to moon after she self-prezzed on PSV when I told her to?

I find it interesting that you consider it a "con" that I gave PSV a lot of chances to be towny and encouraged people to get her when she kept failing. Please explain why that's wolfy.
 
how AM was pushing PSV I think could also be an in to get PSV to react in a towny way and get cleared. Yes AM put a lot of heat on PSV but she never actually voted there and her push was quite open ended/giving PSV a lot of room to look good off it.
Why are you avoiding the posts I made to PSV? They're very easy to find.
 
What I remember about PSV/genny w/w from a game on the syndicate it was a pretty different dynamic where PSV was concerned about genny despite her not posting and tried to defend her anyway. I think PSV made one joke post about genny this game so it probably isn't them, but tbf it was different circumstances that game since genny got heat.
 
In your opinion, what should I have said to moon after she self-prezzed on PSV when I told her to?

I find it interesting that you consider it a "con" that I gave PSV a lot of chances to be towny and encouraged people to get her when she kept failing. Please explain why that's wolfy.
There's nothing you should have said, I was just saying that you didn't force her. It's not in itself wolfy in a black and white way and that wasn't what I was saying, I was saying that it had a plausible wolf motive and made sense as w/w interaction if you were concerned about PSV not being towny enough.
 
There's nothing you should have said, I was just saying that you didn't force her. It's not in itself wolfy in a black and white way and that wasn't what I was saying, I was saying that it had a plausible wolf motive and made sense as w/w interaction if you were concerned about PSV not being towny enough.
Okay, please explain how you force someone to vote that apparently isn't self-prez on PSV unless you're 99% certain she's a town PR"?

And how does it make sense as a w/w reaction?

Don't just answer the second question or you're getting deleted.
 
honestly I really want to see Clem's PR thing and keep getting hung up on that. If I was wrong on Clem that's kind of embarrassing (more so than PSV since I know Clem well).
 
Okay, please explain how you force someone to vote that apparently isn't self-prez on PSV unless you're 99% certain she's a town PR"?

And how does it make sense as a w/w reaction?

Don't just answer the second question or you're getting deleted.
I don't know but that wasn't even the question, I was concerned that the play wasn't as anti-wolf as you and others gave it. Anyone can tell someone to self-pres and that's only the reason PSV went over because she actually did it. Moon could easily have not done it or have self-pressed later without anyone telling her.

For the towncred points.
 
I'm not even tunneling you AM and I don't know if I want you dead this phase. If I did I would have voted you. I just don't think you should be cleared.
 
I don't know but that wasn't even the question, I was concerned that the play wasn't as anti-wolf as you and others gave it. Anyone can tell someone to self-pres and that's only the reason PSV went over because she actually did it. Moon could easily have not done it or have self-pressed later without anyone telling her.
Anyone can tell someone to self-prez? Then why didn't you tell her that at any point before I did fiscal yesterday?

Did moon give any indication that she was going to self-prez if I didn't say something? If so, please quote the context.

And why are you so bothered that I encouraged PSV to go over instead of, I don't know, joining moon to put you into the lead? Or did you forget you were tied with her?
For the towncred points.
So you're back to shading moon again? Otherwise, I don't even know what this means.
I'm not even tunneling you AM and I don't know if I want you dead this phase. If I did I would have voted you. I just don't think you should be cleared.
You haven't voted anyone. I want to know why you're hesitating when we have this massive arsenal of information.
 
I know I said to myself I wouldn't do this but I'm going to address people's points on me.

PSV interacted with me none. Zero. I remember her interacting quite a bit with her wolf partners. At EoD she had a better chance of self pressing on Moon than me and she chose a useless vote on Santy. I could have easily been killed at that point. Wouldn't PSV, knowing her wolf partner was also being wagoned, choose to self-pres on the townie wagon instead of let her or her partner die?

There's also the fact that it's clear I expected PSV to flip town and there's literally no reason for me, knowing she's wolf, to double down minutes before EoD when she was obviously being voted.
 
Anyone can tell someone to self-prez? Then why didn't you tell her that fiscal yesterday?

Did moon give any indication that she was going to self-prez if I didn't say something? If so, please quote the context.

And why are you so bothered that I encouraged PSV to go over instead of, I don't know, joining moon to put you into the lead? Or did you forget you were tied with her?

So you're back to shading moon again? Otherwise, I don't even know what this means.

You haven't voted anyone. I want to know why you're hesitating when we have this massive arsenal of information.
Because I didn't think of it. You could ask that same question to everyone else in the thread.

I don't think she did.

Because you still stayed on Moon all day. If what samac said about PSV was right, that she really disliked bussing, I think someone who encouraged the PSV vote but didn't go there herself would make sense.

No. I never was "shading" moon, and i'm not back to pushing her either.

I tend to only vote when I'm confident. I voted late yesterday, I often vote late, and I don't have a lot of time to play this phase. Let me solve at my own pace.
 
also, you think I wouldn't have voted early as scum? The more I stagnate the more I'm wasting time proposing an alternative to me.
 
Despite my suspicions about AM, I don't think I'm going to vote her today. Santy, Samac, and Moon all don't want to vote her and I'll weigh their reads especially since I'm not too familiar with her.
 
Because I didn't think of it. You could ask that same question to everyone else in the thread.
I can't ask that question to everyone because they stayed on PSV after voting her. Only two people screamed she was village leading up to EOD.
I don't think she did.
Then why are you arguing nonexistent points to try and discredit me?
Because you still stayed on Moon all day. If what samac said about PSV was right, that she really disliked bussing, I think someone who encouraged the PSV vote but didn't go there herself would make sense.
...What?
No. I never was "shading" moon, and i'm not back to pushing her either.
Then the what the frick do you mean by "village cred"? If you think she's a villager, then that's just a villager voting.
I tend to only vote when I'm confident. I voted late yesterday, I often vote late, and I don't have a lot of time to play this phase. Let me solve at my own pace.
You didn't vote late yesterday at all. That was PSV. You voted several hours before EOD.

I can't see why it's impossible to solve with a vote on the board.
 
also, you think I wouldn't have voted early as scum? The more I stagnate the more I'm wasting time proposing an alternative to me.
PSV was literally the last voter yesterday so who knows what the scum team is planning.
 
I can't ask that question to everyone because they stayed on PSV after voting her. Only two people screamed she was village leading up to EOD.

Then why are you arguing nonexistent points to try and discredit me?

...What?

Then the what the frick do you mean by "village cred"? If you think she's a villager, then that's just a villager voting.

You didn't vote late yesterday at all. That was PSV. You voted several hours before EOD.

I can't see why it's impossible to solve with a vote on the board.
I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm responding to your questions.

I think of village cred as posts/moves that get someone widely village read. Villagers can get village cred too.

So I'll probably vote hours before EoD like yesterday. It's less than halfway through the phase now.
 
Eh, if I know I’m likely to go over like I’m champs I tried to form the blocc with myself as an outsider. Even tho I knew I was village I was realistic about thread state.

I’m not overly concerned this game though because I’m pretty sure it’s Clem or Thunal.
Yes but you see I don't currently think it's likely I go over so I'm not super concerned about it
 
Day 2 PLANT VOTE TALLY

[3] Thunal33 - samac, moonstermash, Aprilthearab
[1] Clem J - Animal Midwife

4/7

Vote closes TOMORROW at 8pm EST/5pm PST, 7/9/24 (~27 hours).

Note that this game has no hammer vote. Everything is pure deadline/plurality.
vote thunal
 
I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm responding to your questions.

I think of village cred as posts/moves that get someone widely village read. Villagers can get village cred too.
Okay, I've never heard that before but thanks for clarifying.
So I'll probably vote hours before EoD like yesterday. It's less than halfway through the phase now.
...That probably won't bode well but we'll see I guess.
 
I wouldn't call one post telling moon to self pres and then not talking about it forcing her to. AM was still on moon the whole day and she spent more time than others did trying to get content from PSV and interact with her. She gave PSV a lot of chances to look towny. If there is something really towny about AM I welcome people's input but I don't see it.
It's more about the psv side for me. I don't think psv feels particularly comfortable having extended interactions with/talking much about her partners with any amount of "substance."

It's medium confidence, I definitely could see a world where AM is mafia leading that stuff, but I think it's more likely AM is town atp
 
He was also incredibly unpaired from psv
So are a lot of people. So I still take note of choosing him.

If moon needs multiple misyeets, best to keep him breathing for at least one more cycle.
 
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