Quality DO school vs low-tier MD school

[IslandStyle808]

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Fair discussion to have but my point was that it was made to seem goro was suggesting to go to a DO school so you could "work harder" which isn't what goro is suggesting.

This true, if one is in the DO school, the choice has been made and one has to work harder. I think in part that is what he meant at first. However, when the choice is there, such as in this thread, we have to make OP see it from all situations. Even if there are people who choose a DO school for locality and they still match well (as in Goro's example), this has to be weighed against the opportunities gained if one went to an MD school. Even if Goro is stating MD > DO, his n=1 example of DO over MD should be addressed as well.

 

[22031 Alum]

Goro already said that career opportunities are better at MD and said to go there unless they would be happy or some geographic reason. Goro addressed what school to go to and then separately addressed the notion of DO bias admitting it exists but for those who go to DO school they shouldnt be afraid to work hard. I didn't get the impression Goro was saying to go to a DO school in order to work harder.

Greater opportunities were mentioned. The immediate "but..." and the later "You aren't afraid to work hard?" combine to give me a different impression than you got. It's very likely our different impressions come from our different experiences and points of view. There's a chance that someone else looking for advice here could get the same impression I did, so it's worth addressing.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Greater opportunities were mentioned. The immediate "but..." and the later "You aren't afraid to work hard?" combine to give me a different impression than you got. It's very likely our different impressions come from our different experiences and points of view. There's a chance that someone else looking for advice here could get the same impression I did, so it's worth addressing.

I guess if you got that impression it's worth addressing to make sure the OP didn't get a false impression of what goro actually meant. I was just pointing out what goro meant.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

This true, if one is in the DO school, the choice has been made and one has to work harder. I think in part that is what he meant at first. However, when the choice is there, such as in this thread, we have to make OP see it from all situations. Even if there are people who choose a DO school for locality and they still match well (as in Goro's example), this has to be weighed against the opportunities gained if one went to an MD school. Even if Goro is stating MD > DO, his n=1 example of DO over MD should be addressed as well.

I think that is what goro is trying to do.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The QUALITY of the residency program you match into is significantly influenced by MD vs DO

Eh the level of prestige yes, but quality? That is debatable. There are many quality programs in almost every field that will match DOs consistently. Even community programs produce excellent physicians. Let's not pretend DOs only match into scut bucket programs.

 

[ike88]

Sincere question...
I'm in this predicament. Got into what I consider a quality DO school and also an MD school that is classified as "low-tier."

And yes I used the search function.

Should I choose the lower tier one? Please and thank you.

I am surprised pre-meds even ask this question. Unless you are similar to the self-proclaimed hippy doc who posed earlier and you are very interested in OMM (nothing wrong with that, so please don't take offense, I think it is great), definitely go MD over DO. There really are not any "quality" DO schools when you are comparing to MD. Go MD. Period.

 

[deleted610572]

I am surprised pre-meds even ask this question. Unless you are similar to the self-proclaimed hippy doc who posed earlier and you are very interested in OMM (nothing wrong with that, so please don't take offense, I think it is great), definitely go MD over DO. There really are not any "quality" DO schools when you are comparing to MD. Go MD. Period.

Haha just so we are clear I'm not a hippy like I don't believe in vaccines or pharm or anything. I just enjoy working with my hands in general and manual medicine intrigues me.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

The only ones where that could be a viable choice are TCOM/PCOM vs one of the Puerto Rican Schools.

 

[gyngyn]

The only ones where that could be a viable choice are TCOM/PCOM vs one of the Puerto Rican Schools.

The Puerto Rican schools are fine, Northstate is not.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

The Puerto Rican schools are fine, Northstate is not.

Do we have evidence that they offer a worse education than other medical schools? They haven't even graduated a class yet right?

 

[gyngyn]

Do we have evidence that they offer a worse education than other medical schools? They haven't even graduated a class yet right?

They ( CN"U") have exhibited behaviors never seen in LCME history.

 

[ike88]

Haha

Haha just so we are clear I'm not a hippy like I don't believe in vaccines or pharm or anything. I just enjoy working with my hands in general and manual medicine intrigues me.

Haha I know what ya mean, it's all good. I am friends with plenty of the "true osteopaths," and in fact am grateful for their services throughout those 2 years keeping my spine in line despite hours of sitting.

 

[ike88]

Myab

Eh the level of prestige yes, but quality? That is debatable. There are many quality programs in almost every field that will match DOs consistently. Even community programs produce excellent physicians. Let's not pretend DOs only match into scut bucket programs.

Maybe not, but you are probably 2-3x more likely to end up a at a "scut bucket" program as a DO.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

The answer is always US MD> US DO >>>>>> Caribbean MD, which is the way you should go if all you want is IM, FM , Psych and have a craving for a lot of fresh juice... ocean views..... and want the lifetime experience of living in a third world country where the groceries are expensive, there's a constant threat of being electrocuted when showering, and you like ****ty Subway sandwiches that constantly run out of tomatoes, onions, and bread... and this is on one of the Big 3 islands.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

The answer is always US MD> US DO >>>>>> Caribbean MD, which is the way you should go if all you want is IM, FM , Psych and have a craving for a lot of fresh juice... ocean views..... and want the lifetime experience of living in a third world country where the groceries are expensive, there's a constant threat of being electrocuted when showering, and you like ****ty Subway sandwiches that constantly run out of tomatoes, onions, and bread... and this is on one of the Big 3 islands.

Correction: Caribbean is the way you should go only if you didnt get into USMD/USDO and have your heart set on primary care.


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[DetectiveAlonzo]

Correction: Caribbean is the way you should go only if you didnt get into USMD/USDO and have your heart set on primary care.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

Hey Synaptic,
I agree with you but don't you feel that if a student retakes all bad grades, or spends time retaking their mcat and securing a DO lor, and applying early they SHOULD be able to secure a DO acceptance somewhere??? I feel that the Carib shouldn't be an option at all.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The answer is always US MD> US DO >>>>>> Caribbean MD, which is the way you should go if all you want is IM, FM , Psych and have a craving for a lot of fresh juice... ocean views..... and want the lifetime experience of living in a third world country where the groceries are expensive, there's a constant threat of being electrocuted when showering, and you like ****ty Subway sandwiches that constantly run out of tomatoes, onions, and bread... and this is on one of the Big 3 islands.

That's fine and all, but this thread has nothing to do with the caribbean.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Hey Synaptic,
I agree with you but don't you feel that if a student retakes all bad grades, or spends time retaking their mcat and securing a DO lor, and applying early they SHOULD be able to secure a DO acceptance somewhere??? I feel that the Carib shouldn't be an option at all.

Yes, I was just going off what you wrote cause the way you wrote it sounded like you said if you wanna go Primary care then you should go Caribbean no matter what haha


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[j4pac]

For those interested, the term "beating a dead horse" started in horse racing. You flog the horse to get it to go faster. The horse is either going to go faster when it's flogged, or it won't respond at all because it is either two exhausted or dead. It's amazing how horse beating in horse racing still exist in modern society.

 

[SLC]

Correction: Caribbean is the way you should go only if you didnt get into USMD/USDO and have your heart set on primary care.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

I'd change it to "Carribbean is where you should go if you have $500k lying around and don't mind essentially flipping the proverbial coin on whether or not you'll ever be able to practice medicine."

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

@IslandStyle808 Well to be fair OP is asking about Lower-tier MD vs. DO...

And come on... I mean how much lower can you get than the Caribbean...?

OP. Take the US MD.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Psh, whats 500K in student loans when you get to have a 4 day 9-5 job that makes 200K/year

I assume you are being sarcastic but for those who can't do math- by the time you finish residency you are going to be starting a family so it's no longer just bachelor life living on ramen...

$200K becomes roughly $130- 40 after federal, state and local taxes. Or $11,000/mo after taxes

House: 2000/mo (major underestimation in most major cities)
Property taxes- ~1000/mo (could be 2000 for a morgage of 2000 in some locales)
Various insurance $1500 (health for a family, life insurance, malpractice insurance- probably an underestimate)
Utilities/TV/internet/cell phone- $700
Food for family $1,000
Car- a 300/mo (per person)
Savings: should be 10-20% of your income (1400-2800/mo)

So you're left with $2600-3000/mo prior to necessities like clothes for your family, gas, spending money. Now with 6.8% interest and a 30 year loan of 500K is 3200/month. So, even before any spending cash you're at 11,200-12,600/mo- So yeah, that's not affordable.

Even if you take out your savings, or rent instead of own, you can make ends meet. However, by the time you're 60 when you've paid off your loan, you won't have saved enough to retire.

The end lesson: don't spend half a million dollars on education unless you're going to be making more than 200K

 

[ChiDO]

the cheaper school. /end thread

 

[GypsyHummus]

I assume you are being sarcastic but for those who can't do math- by the time you finish residency you are going to be starting a family so it's no longer just bachelor life living on ramen...

$200K becomes roughly $130- 40 after federal, state and local taxes. Or $11,000/mo after taxes

House: 2000/mo (major underestimation in most major cities)
Property taxes- ~1000/mo (could be 2000 for a morgage of 2000 in some locales)
Various insurance $1500 (health for a family, life insurance, malpractice insurance- probably an underestimate)
Utilities/TV/internet/cell phone- $700
Food for family $1,000
Car- a 300/mo (per person)
Savings: should be 10-20% of your income (1400-2800/mo)

So you're left with $2600-3000/mo prior to necessities like clothes for your family, gas, spending money. Now with 6.8% interest and a 30 year loan of 500K is 3200/month. So, even before any spending cash you're at 11,200-12,600/mo- So yeah, that's not affordable.

Even if you take out your savings, or rent instead of own, you can make ends meet. However, by the time you're 60 when you've paid off your loan, you won't have saved enough to retire.

The end lesson: don't spend half a million dollars on education unless you're going to be making more than 200K

I was a bit sarcastic, but it is possible to win the Game of Loans.

I mean, you don't need a house right after dental school.

General Dentists don't need a residency after school, so you start making 120K+ right away.

Now, because I made the choice to go to dental school (very important to remember, nobody forced anyone to go to dental school) I know that I will have to plan for the future. This is presumptive of me, but I'm either single, or talked with my significant other about delaying a family until we can get finances and debt paid off because I knew this would be a long road. I agree with myself or with Sig other that we are gonna live minimalist life until debt is paid in full. It took a couple years, but I was able to snag a position off of a dental school waitlist after 3 times trying, Im now 26 and buckle up for a rough 4 years.

Fast Forward 4 year from orientation day at that private dental school. Im a fresh faced 30 year old dental associate hot off of dental school and snagged a super awesome position at around 140K/year. Uncle Sam and the State come to take their cut , and Im left with 110K/year (prolly closer to 100K with future taxes) for all of my hard work. K, so Ive got 110K big ones to work with. Lets do the maths.

Apartment: In my area of the country, I can snag a pretty decent apartment in a safe place for around 600/month, less than that if I want to really cut bare bones. I get furniture on the cheap, hand me downs, mom dad are you using that chair, card table from nice old lady's yard sale. SO we are looking good there.

Property Taxes: B/c of apartment living, no property tax. 0$

Various Insurance: we will stick with your figure, but it varies person to person $1500

Utilities: Again, minimalism is key here. Im on a cheap cell phone plan-35$/month, I don't have cable TV, I have internet through my phone hot spot to save money, utilities such as lights and electricity however can't really be managed. So lets say 300/month.

Food: Im living the dream with Friday nights at............My house! I have a bag of lettuce and fresh cut chicken that costs less than 10$ over the span of 3 days. I treat myself to subway once a month, and date night consists of walking in the park. Food for me around 500/month.

Car: I staved off docitis and kept my now 15 year old car. It is a gas guzzler, but old bessy still runs (not as well as it did back in college) and Im hoping it lasts for at least another 5 years. Car insurance and gas is what Ive got to pay for, so I'll estimate this at 70$(car insurance)+150(gas)=220$

Savings: 2K/month.

So, tally it up and we get: Cost of total living 3,120K/month. Subtract from our 9K-3,120K= 5,880K. Pay back time! Im going full force attack on this monster.

Now, my personal tally and how I plan on paying back massive debt: I live comfortably right now as a single person with no car payments, 30/month prepaid phone plan, eating out occasionally, and I can live on 20K/year no sweat.

So, we have 110K/year salary (-) 20K/year, leaving me with 90K. I throw about 20K in savings a year. That leaves me with 70K/year to throw at this huge debt. So, 70K/year(debt payment) X 7= 490K, assuming no raise. Maximum effort! 8 years living the minimalist lifestyle........560K. Rats, still not enough to pay it back with that stupid interest at 6.9%. Lets go for broke (literally) take 10 years=700K. Since we voraciously were able to attack the debt each year, it kept the compounding interest from inflating to astronomical levels. We made it.

Im now 40 years old and single, but hey, I am debt free, and I can now enjoy life. Man, my hair is totally gray now and my back really hurts. Ugh, should have just gone into dermatology like every girl in my intro bio class was gonna do.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Long post...

General Dentists don't need a residency after school, so you start making 120K+ right away.

Fast Forward 4 year from orientation day at that private dental school. Im a fresh faced 30 year old dental associate hot off of dental school and snagged a super awesome position at around 140K/year. Uncle Sam and the State come to take their cut , and Im left with 110K/year (prolly closer to 100K with future taxes) for all of my hard work. K, so Ive got 110K big ones to work with. Lets do the maths.

First, your math is off for income tax. For federal taxes alone you will pay almost 40K in income tax on 140K. This doesn't take into account state and local tax... Which will leave you with roughly 90K after taxes. And this doesn't take into account what is going to change with taxes.

Next, you're also assuming in a handful of years you're going to be able to live like a college kid and you're going to be single and without kids... Which based on your average date you listed may be right. But let's assume you get lucky... By age 30 you're probably not single. And soon you're probably thinking about kids (which gets very, very expensive).

Next- what phone plan is $35/mo and gives you a data plan... Utilities, food all assume you are single and without kids. Also, are you living in an appartment for the rest of your life? Also you're 15 year old car isn't surviving after school. Eventually you will need a car... All in all your numbers aren't realistic. But let's use them with that 500,000 educational cost we were talking about.

After tax income: 90,ooo or $7,500 per month

Income 7,500
Food: 500
Rent: 600
Insurance: 1500
Car 220- Gas/insurance
Utilities- 300
Payment of your 500K loan: 3,200

What's left $1180- this includes all of your date money, your savings, your oh-sh.t fund and the like.

The worst part is this loan monthly payment is a 30 year monthly payment. So you're never getting out from under this.
So while the above may barely work when living an exceptionally spartan, single life. Add a single child, or a spouse or a house and you have no ability to save, much less pay off this large loan payment quickly.

TLDR- if you take on a $500,000 educational loan, you can't live on $140K.

 

[GypsyHummus]

First, your math is off for income tax. For federal taxes alone you will pay almost 40K in income tax on 140K. This doesn't take into account state and local tax... Which will leave you with roughly 90K after taxes. And this doesn't take into account what is going to change with taxes.

Next, you're also assuming in a handful of years you're going to be able to live like a college kid and you're going to be single and without kids... Which based on your average date you listed may be right. But let's assume you get lucky... By age 30 you're probably not single. And soon you're probably thinking about kids (which gets very, very expensive).

Next- what phone plan is $35/mo and gives you a data plan... Utilities, food all assume you are single and without kids. Also, are you living in an appartment for the rest of your life? Also you're 15 year old car isn't surviving after school. Eventually you will need a car... All in all your numbers aren't realistic. But let's use them with that 500,000 educational cost we were talking about.

After tax income: 90,ooo or $7,500 per month

Income 7,500
Food: 500
Rent: 600
Insurance: 1500
Car 220- Gas/insurance
Utilities- 300
Payment of your 500K loan: 3,200

What's left $1180- this includes all of your date money, your savings, your oh-sh.t fund and the like.

The worst part is this loan monthly payment is a 30 year monthly payment. So you're never getting out from under this.
So while the above may barely work when living an exceptionally spartan, single life. Add a single child, or a spouse or a house and you have no ability to save, much less pay off this large loan payment quickly.

TLDR- if you take on a $500,000 educational loan, you can't live on $140K.

Oh yeah, anything with a kid/Family is gonna run this math off a cliff.

Sprint and Tmobile (not sponsored) both have data plans around 1-5GB (unlimited 2G-dialup speed after you hit the cap), and t mobile can do a wireless hotspot for you computers.

There are lots of people still single in their 30s.

Plan on living in an apartment until Im debt free. Housing in apartments stink cuz your not building equity, but honestly, you don't buy a house to save money.

When old bessy finally kicks the curb, I'll get a car that's less than 10K.

Notice, Im not saying this is opportune, quite the opposite. Have you seen the AT Still tuition and fees? They estimate cost of attendance per year at 113K. Ridiculous.

I would say this would not be an issue seeing Dentists have the opportunity to make well over 300K. The problem is, you need to have your own practice, your own practice costs $$$$. More debt. So the associates salary seems to be what to expect. 90K take home is sweet. Not with 500K in debt.

 

[JoeUSA]

I am surprised pre-meds even ask this question. Unless you are similar to the self-proclaimed hippy doc who posed earlier and you are very interested in OMM (nothing wrong with that, so please don't take offense, I think it is great), definitely go MD over DO. There really are not any "quality" DO schools when you are comparing to MD. Go MD. Period.

About the "quality" reference . . .

Where is the evidence that supports that conclusion?

Does the US Department of Education know this?

 

[22031 Alum]

About the "quality" reference . . .

Where is the evidence that supports that conclusion?

Does the US Department of Education know this?

The evidence is that when discussing DO schools, the only place tiers are ever mentioned is on SDN. In all other situations, it is binary- DO or not. You could go to the oldest DO school, the one that started it all, and many residencies would lump you together with an applicant from the newest branch of a branch school. Not necessarily fair, but that's real life. And when you are thinking about your future residency prospects, it's not about the US Dept of Education- it's about the perceptions of the people/places you're asking for a spot.

 

[mathnerd88]

The evidence is that when discussing DO schools, the only place tiers are ever mentioned is on SDN. In all other situations, it is binary- DO or not. You could go to the oldest DO school, the one that started it all, and many residencies would lump you together with an applicant from the newest branch of a branch school. Not necessarily fair, but that's real life. And when you are thinking about your future residency prospects, it's not about the US Dept of Education- it's about the perceptions of the people/places you're asking for a spot.

I believe this is true when you're applying to a place where you have no connections to. DO school name do carry some name regionally. I believe someone from PCOM would be more favorable for a residency in Philadelphia rather than, let's say someone from BCOM.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

As someone who has looked at tons of programs in PA the discussion of them favoring say a PCOM over other D.O. schools may be true. But I'm not sure how much of that is due to people going to PCOM and then simply wanting to stay in PA, because they either rotated through those hospitals and liked them, and their are so many opportunities for D.O.s in PA. I'm sure at PCOM they "advertise" the hospitals around quite a bit because they want their students to match to these good programs. The other state where this is true is in WV. WVU for instance does take some D.O.s and they are nearly 100% from WVCOM. This is because WVU wants to keep people in the state.

I think in general, Nation wide no Programs directors give a hoot if you went to PCOM or "X"COM. D.O. is a D.O. to some and if they don't want a D.O. that is that.

 

[22031 Alum]

I believe this is true when you're applying to a place where you have no connections to. DO school name do carry some name regionally. I believe someone from PCOM would be more favorable for a residency in Philadelphia rather than, let's say someone from BCOM.

That would be evidence of geographic preference, not of the existence of tiers. Proof of tiers would be a PCOM applicant having an advantage over a BCOM student for a program in a different area with no connection to either school.

 

[mathnerd88]

That would be evidence of geographic preference, not of the existence of tiers. Proof of tiers would be a PCOM applicant having an advantage over a BCOM student for a program in a different area with no connection to either school.

I'm sure there is some influence. There are plenty of people who've heard of PCOM, and the alumni base is huge.

I'm sure the chances of a residency program hearing of PCOM is much greater than BCOM. I personally know a PCOM grad in BWH surgery residency. BWH isn't known to take DO's.

Yes for PD's who won't even look at DO's, then that's that. But those who do, the school name does carry some weight. You can say a DO is a DO is a DO, but I believe there's a difference. Some DO schools emphasize research and give much more opportunity to do so than others. There are some subtle differences that these "tiers" exist on SDN. To a PD, a DO who has done research is going to be more favored over someone else who didn't, with everything else all equal. There are other things like rotations, connections, etc that a school offers over another.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm sure there is some influence. There are plenty of people who've heard of PCOM, and the alumni base is huge.

I'm sure the chances of a residency program hearing of PCOM is much greater than BCOM. I personally know a PCOM grad in BWH surgery residency. BWH isn't known to take DO's.

Yes for PD's who won't even look at DO's, then that's that. But those who do, the school name does carry some weight. You can say a DO is a DO is a DO, but I believe there's a difference. Some DO schools emphasize research and give much more opportunity to do so than others. There are some subtle differences that these "tiers" exist on SDN. To a PD, a DO who has done research is going to be more favored over someone else who didn't, with everything else all equal. There are other things like rotations, connections, etc that a school offers over another.

BWH is in the same region as PCOM, so it doesn't conflict with 22031 Alum's explanation. For instance, Lake Erie had a MGH match in anesthesia this cycle. Do you really think Lake Erie beats out PCOM in terms of rotations, research, alum base (PCOM has been around for a lot longer)? No way, this student was stellar and it was all him.

I admit I don't have full understanding of how the tier system works. However, the one thing not mentioned nearly enough on SDN that seem to play a large part in the tier system is the home departments that top tier and mid tier schools have a lot of and with well known programs. MD schools have these departments which go to bat for their students, especially for interviews at well regarded places. This can pull up a student who looks mediocre on paper or even make a great student look stellar. However, for DO schools this advantage is almost nonexistent. They either don't have the program, the program is too far, or the program is not known at all. This in part contributes to why DO schools seem like they are all on equal ground when MD PDs look at them.

It is possible the name does help, but its effect is most likely minuscule when board scores, clinical grades, research, networking are doing the vast majority of the work. However, a lot of MD student with these home departments don't need the same effort in networking, research, and away rotations. This gives them greater wiggle room in terms of grades, board scores, and other aspects of their application.

 

[mathnerd88]

BWH is in the same region as PCOM, so it doesn't conflict with 22031 Alum's explanation. For instance, Lake Erie had a MGH match in anesthesia this cycle. Do you really think Lake Erie beats out PCOM in terms of rotations, research, alum base (PCOM has been around for a lot longer)? No way, this student was stellar and it was all him.

I admit I don't have full understanding of how the tier system works. However, the one thing not mentioned nearly enough on SDN that seem to play a large part in the tier system is the home departments that top tier and mid tier schools have a lot of and with well known programs. MD schools have these departments which go to bat for their students, especially for interviews at well regarded places. This can pull up a student who looks mediocre on paper or even make a great student look stellar. However, for DO schools this advantage is almost nonexistent. They either don't have the program, the program is too far, or the program is not known at all. This in part contributes to why DO schools seem like they are all on equal ground when MD PDs look at them.

It is possible the name does help, but its effect is most likely minuscule when board scores, clinical grades, research, networking are doing the vast majority of the work. However, a lot of MD student with these home departments don't need the same effort in networking, research, and away rotations. This gives them greater wiggle room in terms of grades, board scores, and other aspects of their application.

MGH for anesthesiology? I thought MGH doesn't even look at DO's. Now that's odd. I'm seeing UMass Med for anesthesiology.

http://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2015/06/2015_LECOM_Match-Summary.pdf

I don't really think Philadelphia and Boston are really "regional."

I do agree with you, but there are DO schools who do have much better networking, research, and away rotations than some other DO schools. That also does help. Usually the really good residency programs are near or in major cities.

Let's hope that at least some of the vast amount of alumni has gone through some of these rotations and residencies, and did well. Connections and name does bring you far. Of course you need to score well on your boards too. Even MD's have a hard time getting into these residencies. While there is some bias, I think it is made out way worse than it is. This is like comparing public state schools vs. Ivy Leagues in terms of undergrad.

 

[IslandStyle808]

MGH for anesthesiology? I thought MGH doesn't even look at DO's. Now that's odd. I'm seeing UMass Med for anesthesiology.

http://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2015/06/2015_LECOM_Match-Summary.pdf

I don't really think Philadelphia and Boston are really "regional."

I do agree with you, but there are DO schools who do have much better networking, research, and away rotations than some other DO schools. That also does help. Usually the really good residency programs are near or in major cities.

Let's hope that at least some of the vast amount of alumni has gone through some of these rotations and residencies, and did well. Connections and name does bring you far. Of course you need to score well on your boards too. Even MD's have a hard time getting into these residencies. While there is some bias, I think it is made out way worse than it is. This is like comparing public state schools vs. Ivy Leagues in terms of undergrad.

It was for the 2016 match, not the 2015 match. I would really like to see the name on the MGH roster to really have proof (there was an AZCOM grad who matched there last year but the names for the class of 2019 are not on there).

If these DO students do leave a good impression, it could potentially open a lot of doors.

 

[mathnerd88]

It was for the 2016 match, not the 2015 match. I would really like to see the name on the MGH roster to really have proof (there was an AZCOM grad who matched there last year but the names for the class of 2019 are not on there).

If these DO students do leave a good impression, it could potentially open a lot of doors.

I hope that they do. I'm sure as any, that these DO students are also probably phenomenal as well as the MD students they're in the program with. Yes, there is a bias, but part of that is also due to the lower standards that DO has when picking applicants vs. MD, and also many schools lack research, something MD schools do.

I believe once DO schools try to really match their MD counterparts- in terms of rotations, research, applicant stats, etc., it would really help the DO image.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

MGH for anesthesiology? I thought MGH doesn't even look at DO's. Now that's odd. I'm seeing UMass Med for anesthesiology.

Yeah it was a crazy match. I think I actually saw two MGH gas matches over on the 2016 match list thread but I can't remember what the other school was

 

[BobaBoba]

Your overall career opportunities will be greater with the MD school, but can you see yourself being happy there? Is it closer to home? You have to look at a number of different variables, not just whether you want to be an "ologist"

Family Medicinologist? 😉

 

[dushash]

Just wanted to ask if EM or Anesthesiology are particularly difficult to match for a DO student?
Also, not sure if 2020 will a bit normalize/diminish all this MD vs DO cat-fight (given that it gets better with every year)?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Just wanted to ask if EM or Anesthesiology are particularly difficult to match for a DO student?
Also, not sure if 2020 will a bit normalize/diminish all this MD vs DO cat-fight (given that it gets better with every year)?

EM is getting more and more competitive by the year, but still attainable as a DO. However, Anesthesia is getting less competitive so even getting into this field is easier. You should be fine.

 

[ike88]

About the "quality" reference . . .

Where is the evidence that supports that conclusion?

Does the US Department of Education know this?

I donno man, look it up...

 

[ike88]

MGH for anesthesiology? I thought MGH doesn't even look at DO's. Now that's odd. I'm seeing UMass Med for anesthesiology.

http://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2015/06/2015_LECOM_Match-Summary.pdf

I don't really think Philadelphia and Boston are really "regional."

I do agree with you, but there are DO schools who do have much better networking, research, and away rotations than some other DO schools. That also does help. Usually the really good residency programs are near or in major cities.

Let's hope that at least some of the vast amount of alumni has gone through some of these rotations and residencies, and did well. Connections and name does bring you far. Of course you need to score well on your boards too. Even MD's have a hard time getting into these residencies. While there is some bias, I think it is made out way worse than it is. This is like comparing public state schools vs. Ivy Leagues in terms of undergrad.

Yea that person who matched MGH is in our accelerated PA "APAP" program. Anesthesia is not hard to match as a DO. I know for a fact that this candidate did not even rotate at MGH.

 

[deleted610572]

I don't believe EM will ever be unattainable as a DO. They're DO friendly, from year to year there may be more competitive MD applicants but the specialty isn't that desirable. It's still shift work

 

[sylvanthus]

I don't believe EM will ever be unattainable as a DO. They're DO friendly, from year to year there may be more competitive MD applicants but the specialty isn't that desirable. It's still shift work

I can tell you that when I applied 4 years ago, with great step scores, class rank, extracurriculars, I had to apply to twice the number of programs as MDs with worse stats to get the same number of interviews. Still attainable for a DO? Sure, but even in EM, DOs are at a disadvantage.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yea that person who matched MGH is in our accelerated PA "APAP" program. Anesthesia is not hard to match as a DO. I know for a fact that this candidate did not even rotate at MGH.

The fact that he didn't rotate there blew my mind. I don't remember if he had research pubs or not, do you know?

Then there was that girl who matched Hopkins for peds from one of the Lake Erie's as well. These were the few matches that were in the stratosphere.

 

[Goro]

That sound you hear is the glass door cracking!

Who knows, maybe NYU IM is next????? If so, then cue the Meat Torpedo, gnashing and wailing of teeth.

The fact that he didn't rotate there blew my mind. I don't remember if he had research pubs or not, do you know?

Then there was that girl who matched Hopkins for peds from one of the Lake Erie's as well. These were the few matches that were in the stratosphere.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

That sound you hear is the glass door cracking!

Who knows, maybe NYU IM is next????? If so, then cue the Meat Torpedo, gnashing and wailing of teeth.

LOLOL can't forget Argus!

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I can tell you that when I applied 4 years ago, with great step scores, class rank, extracurriculars, I had to apply to twice the number of programs as MDs with worse stats to get the same number of interviews. Still attainable for a DO? Sure, but even in EM, DOs are at a disadvantage.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought EM had a lot more to do with SLOEs than the actual board score. A bad score can sink you, but an average one can be ok IF you have enough solid away evaluations with your application. PM me if you'd like!

 

[IslandStyle808]

That sound you hear is the glass door cracking!

Who knows, maybe NYU IM is next????? If so, then cue the Meat Torpedo, gnashing and wailing of teeth.

This is the 2nd year a DO has matched into MGH for anesthesia. I am glad to see them finally break into MGH, at least for anesthesia, and hope they continue this pace. Top tier matches for DOs might not be a such pipe dream in the future.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought EM had a lot more to do with SLOEs than the actual board score. A bad score can sink you, but an average one can be ok IF you have enough solid away evaluations with your application. PM me if you'd like!

I have seen is stats, trust me, this guy is the real deal. He would probably rank in the top 10% of DOs in the entire country during his time (the only thing I didn't see was research, but it isn't as large of a factor for EM). I think his SLOE must have been stellar. He mentioned about interviewing in places where MD dudes with far lower stats were interviewing. His story left me floored.