Question about HPSP payback time and GMO tours

[Asclepius293]

Hey all,

If I did HPSP, graduated from medical school, did my intern year, then served on a 4 year GMO tour, would I be able to apply to and complete a military residency without incurring additional time to repay? Wouldn't my HPSP payback time be taken care of by the 4 years of GMO service?

Additionally, how do military residencies work? Do they come with their own payback times? If, after completing the military residency, I chose to return to the civilian world and work in a hospital, am I able to do so? I realize this is a big hypothetical pathway but I want to make sure I understand how it all works as I research the HPSP and military medicine.

Thanks for your help.

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[Kingfisher]

Hey all,

If I did HPSP, graduated from medical school, did my intern year, then served on a 4 year GMO tour, would I be able to apply to and complete a military residency without incurring additional time to repay? Wouldn't my HPSP payback time be taken care of by the 4 years of GMO service?

Additionally, how do military residencies work? Do they come with their own payback times? If, after completing the military residency, I chose to return to the civilian world and work in a hospital, am I able to do so? I realize this is a big hypothetical pathway but I want to make sure I understand how it all works as I research the HPSP and military medicine.

Thanks for your help.

Residency will require you to serve a length of time equal to the length of your residency despite how much time you owe. So if you were to serve your 4 years as a GMO and then go to residency. Lets say you get an internal medicine residency (2 more years ish). You would be required to serve 2 more years. If you did a more lengthy residency with the military, like 4 years or so, you would owe 4 more years. So the 4 year HPSP payback could quickly get out of control and you could spend a lot more time in the military than you had originally planned.

The other option would be to serve your time as a GMO and get out to do a civ residency. Some choose to do this but it becomes more complicated as you will have to take a huge pay cut, it can be more challenging to get into a civilian residency (depending on specialty) mid stream. These are factors to consider when taking the scholarship.

 

[jabreal00]

Hey all,

If I did HPSP, graduated from medical school, did my intern year, then served on a 4 year GMO tour, would I be able to apply to and complete a military residency without incurring additional time to repay? Wouldn't my HPSP payback time be taken care of by the 4 years of GMO service?

Additionally, how do military residencies work? Do they come with their own payback times? If, after completing the military residency, I chose to return to the civilian world and work in a hospital, am I able to do so? I realize this is a big hypothetical pathway but I want to make sure I understand how it all works as I research the HPSP and military medicine.

Thanks for your help.

Like others have said, you'd owe the time for the residency whatever the length of the residency. If you want to do a military residency, it'd make more sense to do one straight out o medical school and pay back your time. It only makes sense for people who have already completed a primary residency and paid back their time and are thinking of doing a subspecialty. They do their subspecialty for 2-3 years and only owe that time back in the military. The good thing about these folks is that they can sign for their multiyear bonus which they can get (assuming they've already been 8 years in active duty).

 

[WernickeDO]

Residency will require you to serve a length of time equal to the length of your residency despite how much time you owe. So if you were to serve your 4 years as a GMO and then go to residency. Lets say you get an internal medicine residency (2 more years ish). You would be required to serve 2 more years. If you did a more lengthy residency with the military, like 4 years or so, you would owe 4 more years. So the 4 year HPSP payback could quickly get out of control and you could spend a lot more time in the military than you had originally planned.

The other option would be to serve your time as a GMO and get out to do a civ residency. Some choose to do this but it becomes more complicated as you will have to take a huge pay cut, it can be more challenging to get into a civilian residency (depending on specialty) mid stream. These are factors to consider when taking the scholarship.

I'm not sure about that Kingfisher. My understanding was that you serve the amount of time of residency (not including internship) OR the amount of time you accept the scholarship. In the above scenario, if OP served 4 years GMO s/he would still owe 3 years of reserve time (the 1st year being counted as a reserve year). So if s/he were to move on to IM residency after 4 years GMO, they would be done with their HPSP requirement.

EDIT: Of course, if your residency of choice were longer, you would incur more time.

This is a topic that comes up year after year so any information we can disperse on it is good. If someone is able to quote regulations or stipulations in their contract please join the discussion.

 

[backrow]

I'm not sure about that Kingfisher. My understanding was that you serve the amount of time of residency (not including internship) OR the amount of time you accept the scholarship. In the above scenario, if OP served 4 years GMO s/he would still owe 3 years of reserve time (the 1st year being counted as a reserve year). So if s/he were to move on to IM residency after 4 years GMO, they would be done with their HPSP requirement.

EDIT: Of course, if your residency of choice were longer, you would incur more time.

This is a topic that comes up year after year so any information we can disperse on it is good. If someone is able to quote regulations or stipulations in their contract please join the discussion.

Your understanding is incorrect, kingfisher is more on target.

The intern year is essentially neutral. One starts the payback for HPSP the day they are no longer in training. There are some nuances, but in general:

Do internship, serve 4 years...you can get out (yes there is additional reserve time owed in the IRR)

Military residency accrues a new year for year obligation (you will get to sign stating you understand this when selected).

Go straight into residency without GMO and you will owe the greater: HPSP obligation or years of residency.

Go back to residency after say 2 of 4 years paid back : after residency you now owe whichever is longer: 2 years or years of residency.

 

[WernickeDO]

So the real twist is when you do a 4 year GMO. If you proceed to residency you incur additional ADSO?

 

[IlDestriero]

Answers embedded.
Note Perrotfish's answer below about how much time you would owe if you did a military residency and didn't do a 4 year GMO first.

If I did HPSP, graduated from medical school, did my intern year, then served on a 4 year GMO tour, would I be able to apply to and complete a military residency without incurring additional time to repay?
-NO
Wouldn't my HPSP payback time be taken care of by the 4 years of GMO service?
-YES, BUT THE MILITARY RESIDENCY WOULD OBLIGATE YOU AN ADDITIONAL YEAR FOR YEAR.
Additionally, how do military residencies work? Do they come with their own payback times?
-YES, YEAR FOR YEAR, EXCEPT FOR INTERNSHIP WHICH IS NEUTRAL. IT PAYS OFF A YEAR OF HPSP TIME OWED WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY ADDING A YEAR TO YOUR OBLIGATION.
If, after completing the military residency, I chose to return to the civilian world and work in a hospital, am I able to do so?
-YES. EVERYONE LOVES A VET, SO YOU'LL PROBABLY DO FINE WHEN YOU'RE READY TO LOOK FOR A CIVILIAN JOB. YOU'LL ALSO HAVE A FEW YEARS OF EXPERIENCE FROM YOUR MILITARY PAYBACK SO YOU'LL BE BOARD CERTIFIED ALREADY AND LOOK A LOT BETTER THAN MOST STRAIGHT OUT OF RESIDENCY PEOPLE. SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IS IF YOU WANT AN ACADEMIC CAREER AT A MAJOR ACADEMIC CENTER WITH RESEARCH, ETC. IS THAT THE MILITARY RESIDENCIES WILL NOT HAVE MUCH IN TERMS OF RESEARCH MENTORSHIP OR MONEY OR TIME DURING PAYBACK TO GET YOUR ACADEMIC CAREER LAUNCHED. THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL NEGATIVE.
I realize this is a big hypothetical pathway but I want to make sure I understand how it all works as I research the HPSP and military medicine.

Thanks for your help.

 

[IlDestriero]

So the real twist is when you do a 4 year GMO. If you proceed to residency you incur additional ADSO?

Yes. But most don't do 4 year GMOs, they do 1-3 year GMOs. If you do 4 years, you will be better off getting out, unless you want to stay for 20 and collect that pension.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm not sure about that Kingfisher. My understanding was that you serve the amount of time of residency (not including internship) OR the amount of time you accept the scholarship. In the above scenario, if OP served 4 years GMO s/he would still owe 3 years of reserve time (the 1st year being counted as a reserve year). So if s/he were to move on to IM residency after 4 years GMO, they would be done with their HPSP requirement.

EDIT: Of course, if your residency of choice were longer, you would incur more time.

This is a topic that comes up year after year so any information we can disperse on it is good. If someone is able to quote regulations or stipulations in their contract please join the discussion.

The amount of time you are required to serve after residency is the amount of time you owe going into residency, or the length of the residency (not counting Intern year), whichever is more.

Examples:

You do HPSP (4 year obligation) and get straight through training in Neurosurgery (Intern year + 6 year residency), 6 year residency is > 4 year HPSP obligation, you come out of residency owing 6 years.

You do HPSP (4 year obligation), get straight through Pediatrics training (Intern year + 2 year residency), 4 year HPSP obligation > 2 year residency, you owe 4 years after residency

You do HPSP (4 year obligation), Pediatrics Intern year, you do a 2 year GMO (now you owe 2 years), now you do a Pediatrics residency (2 year residency). 2 year HPSP obligation going into residency = 2 year Residency. You have a 2 year obligation after residency

You do HPSP (4 year obligation), Surgery Intern year, 3 year GMO, now you owe 1 year. Next you do a Neurosurgery residency (6 year residency). 6 years residency > 1 year obligation going in, you owe 6 years after residency.

 

[Clap MD]

important to note that commitment incurred while in AD mil residency will run concurrent with any prior existing ADSC while commitment incurred by civ sponsored will run consecutive with prior ADSC. sorry if this was pointed out above, I just skimmed and didn't see it explicitly stated. a big enough deal that it should be mentioned.

 

[williameb23]

From what I understand (and this thread has been incredibly helpful), you can accept a 4-year HPSP, intern 1 year, GMO for 4 years, then complete the remainder as civilian residency without any additional AD time, correct? Is GMO time viewed favorably in a civilian residency match, or is it a bit unrealistic? I'd love to do the Navy flight surgery GMO and have the option of a civilian residency if for whatever reason my 4 years of GMO time is enough AD and I'm ready to jump into the civilian world.

 

[Clap MD]

That is correct regarding the option of being done after your 4 years and heading off to civilian life.

Regarding whether or not GMO time is viewed favorably, well that's where you'll get all kinds of opinions. A universal truth is that nothing will overcome bad board scores or grades or a personality that makes PDs shudder after interviews. I've been asked about my GMO time in interviews and it has given me some pretty cool stuff to talk about with both .mil and civ programs. But programs also aren't shy about preferring fresh grads who are still used to the tempo of an academic environment.

My advice would be to work hard throughout med school and try to match directly into what you want to go into as that is probably when you have the best chance. If you end up having to do a flight med tour, keep an open mind and use the time to max perform your next time through the match.

 

[IlDestriero]

From what I understand (and this thread has been incredibly helpful), you can accept a 4-year HPSP, intern 1 year, GMO for 4 years, then complete the remainder as civilian residency without any additional AD time, correct? Is GMO time viewed favorably in a civilian residency match, or is it a bit unrealistic? I'd love to do the Navy flight surgery GMO and have the option of a civilian residency if for whatever reason my 4 years of GMO time is enough AD and I'm ready to jump into the civilian world.

Yes, it absolutely can help you land a choice residency spot. All that bull Shiite that you can't stand doing, reports, staffing schedules, planning, deployment preparedness, enlisted counseling, supply chain, etc. that's all leadership activities. You absolutely can spin that all as proof of leadership. Only physician for xxx deployed troops, medical director of your dirty tent clinic, etc. useless new policies that your line commander made you create, dumb metrics that they made you follow, all of it. You are competing with new grads that usually have little to no leadership opportunities at all. Use it to crush them. You didn't get dumber being a leader of men and clinic supervisor. Everyone wants someone who is going to be a superior resident. One that won't cause problems, will get the work done and can be relied upon. Your GMO time was training for all that. They will teach you the medicine you need to know.
Your usmle scores still take top billing, hopefully you do well.
And don't forget that there are a lot of us veterans out there in mid to senior level positions all over the country in every specialty to make sure you get what you deserve for your time in uniform. Vets take care of vets.