question about matching

[tomplatz]

I had a really weird experience while interviewing recently at a military base. The first question the program director asked me was where I ranked them, then pulled out a sheet of paper that showed I'd ranked them second. He seemed really stuck on that and flat out said "I'm not going to consider you unless you rank us first or unless your first choice doesn't want you and I still don't have my slots filled, which isn't going to happen." He also said he'd aggressively try to recruit me if I put them first.

Is it just me or is that totally inappropriate? The program looked really nice but that was weird. My first choice is a lot more competitive place to get accepted to. Now I'm worried, do I go for it with my first choice and risk losing a chance for my 2nd choice too or should I re-rank this program first since it's easier to get in?

I desperately don't want to be deferred (3rd choice) but this is freaking me out. Any thoughts guys? Thanks.

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[DrBloodmoney]

He absolutely should not have done this. I volunteered the info to one program director during a phone interview, but they are not supposed to ask.

 

[bogatyr]

After that interview you really still want to go there? I can't imagine having to deal with someone like that for 3 years, but I guess I'll find out soon enough...

 

[GMO_52]

I had a really weird experience while interviewing recently at a military base. The first question the program director asked me was where I ranked them, then pulled out a sheet of paper that showed I'd ranked them second. He seemed really stuck on that and flat out said "I'm not going to consider you unless you rank us first or unless your first choice doesn't want you and I still don't have my slots filled, which isn't going to happen." He also said he'd aggressively try to recruit me if I put them first.

Is it just me or is that totally inappropriate? The program looked really nice but that was weird. My first choice is a lot more competitive place to get accepted to. Now I'm worried, do I go for it with my first choice and risk losing a chance for my 2nd choice too or should I re-rank this program first since it's easier to get in?

I desperately don't want to be deferred (3rd choice) but this is freaking me out. Any thoughts guys? Thanks.

I'd say it depends on how competitive your first choice is. I haven't seen that big a difference between competitiveness between locations for the same specialty (definitely some difference, just not that much). Unless you think you are far more likely to get selected by this dude, I'd stick with my first choice. Someone who wants to play the numbers like that is just as likely to screw you in the end, anyway.

The thing we all have to understand about the military match is that the pd's share info so you 1) have to tell them all the same story and 2) can only really have 1 preference.

 

[bustbones26]

Wait a minute, every program director I talked to said that they have not idea how we rank them. It is also stated in out LOI's that the PD's are not informed of how we rank them, they are allowed to ask us, but we do not have to furnihs that info to them

If they actually know how you ranked them, that is innapropriate!!! And we all have been lied to. But hey, that's the military for you.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

They don't need to ask, they have your rank list as part of your application. Yea, it sucks that he is doing this to you. This is one of the main reasons the civilian match was put into place. I hate the entire military match system and it is most unfortunate that you have been put in this nightmare situation. For all of you considering HPSP, take note!

For the OP, diplomacy here is key. You can't just lie since he'll know your rank list, and, indeed, this program director will be one of the 2-8 individuals who do the actual match. You want to remain on his good side if at all possible. I was also in the position of going to interviews to tell the program directors that I didn't want to come to their program. I wanted to go to a civilian program. I told them that although I would be happy if I were to go to their program, I would prefer to do...... Tact is key.

Good luck.

 

[Mirror Form]

I had a really weird experience while interviewing recently at a military base. The first question the program director asked me was where I ranked them, then pulled out a sheet of paper that showed I'd ranked them second. He seemed really stuck on that and flat out said "I'm not going to consider you unless you rank us first or unless your first choice doesn't want you and I still don't have my slots filled, which isn't going to happen." He also said he'd aggressively try to recruit me if I put them first.

Is it just me or is that totally inappropriate? The program looked really nice but that was weird. My first choice is a lot more competitive place to get accepted to. Now I'm worried, do I go for it with my first choice and risk losing a chance for my 2nd choice too or should I re-rank this program first since it's easier to get in?

I desperately don't want to be deferred (3rd choice) but this is freaking me out. Any thoughts guys? Thanks.

That PD is apparently somewhat a slime ball. I'd definitely recommend ranking them last, because after seeing how they treat you as an applicant, you can't expect much better treatment as a house officer.

After the match is all over, you should mention this to some higher ups b/c that is completely unacceptable behavior.

 

[haujun]

I had a really weird experience while interviewing recently at a military base. The first question the program director asked me was where I ranked them, then pulled out a sheet of paper that showed I'd ranked them second. He seemed really stuck on that and flat out said "I'm not going to consider you unless you rank us first or unless your first choice doesn't want you and I still don't have my slots filled, which isn't going to happen." He also said he'd aggressively try to recruit me if I put them first.

Is it just me or is that totally inappropriate? The program looked really nice but that was weird. My first choice is a lot more competitive place to get accepted to. Now I'm worried, do I go for it with my first choice and risk losing a chance for my 2nd choice too or should I re-rank this program first since it's easier to get in?

I desperately don't want to be deferred (3rd choice) but this is freaking me out. Any thoughts guys? Thanks.

Your experience goes against integrity and honor which are some of military values...If you were to select them first and he does not follow through his promise you may get screwed...Act honorably and you will have nothing to worry about during your rest of military career...

 

[militarymd]

Your experience goes against integrity and honor which are some of military values...If you were to select them first and he does not follow through his promise you may get screwed...Act honorably and you will have nothing to worry about during your rest of military career...

Nothing to worry about except for senior leadership...like the PD's integrity and honor.

 

[Fiend]

If he wants you badly, then there is the possibility that your true first choice wants you as well. Also, PDs are notorious for making promises to applicants and not following through. What is to say that if you rank them first that he won't change his mind later and take other applicants over you? Stick to your current list if that is what you want.

 

[bustbones26]

This is so damn unfortunate, but i just received a call from a PD myself and it turns out, they know everything!! Thye know what your career goal is, they know how you ranked them, and they know who it is that you ranked!!!

The only reaons I find a problem with this is because when you are applying, you are told that the PD's willnot be given this info. BUt it looks like they are.

 

[tomplatz]

thanks for all the input guys. i think i'm going to stick with my original first choice and just go for broke, as most of you recommended.

i thought it was a bit inappropriate of him to even say what he said, but I suppose he was being pragmatic too. it is VERY different from the civilian world, that's for sure.

my first choice is an awesome program, I was tremendously impressed after spending a month there, so I have a lot of optimism for military residencies.

best of luck to the rest of you!

 

[DrBloodmoney]

Well the bright side is that since people move around so much in the military, he most likely won't be there for the entire duration of your residency.

 

[GeoLeoX]

It's in your own best interest to be honest. That's something that you can't get back. Sure, the military match is not the way that it should be. In fact for my specialty I know that all the PDs from each of the programs meet the week after Thanksgiving and go over all the candidates - together. Whether they have copies of your rank list or not I don't know. I did rotations at 2 of the 3 sites available. I interviewed in person at those 2 sites and phone interviewed at the 3rd (obviously my third choice). So it was really down to two places, both of which seemed interested in me. I spoke to the PD at my second rated program and honestly told him my reasons for choosing the other program. DON'T BURN YOUR BRIDGES! As my colleague mentioned, people do move around and you may see them again.

I was lucky to have dealt with honest PDs with integrity.

Good luck,

G