Question about recommendations

[hareeese]

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This question may seem a bit elementary (I'm a current MS3 hoping to match next year), with regards to recommendations, do students generally keep two sets of recommendations, one for each match (SF & NRMP)? One of the individuals from whom I am requesting a letter asked which profession (ophtho or medicine) they should direct the letter, and I honestly didn't know the answer to that. Would I use an ophtho-directed letter also for my prelim application? (This doctor is an internist that I got to know throughout my 3 years in school). Any newly-matched students please let me know, thanks!

 

[wakeringer]

This question may seem a bit elementary (I'm a current MS3 hoping to match next year), with regards to recommendations, do students generally keep two sets of recommendations, one for each match (SF & NRMP)? One of the individuals from whom I am requesting a letter asked which profession (ophtho or medicine) they should direct the letter, and I honestly didn't know the answer to that. Would I use an ophtho-directed letter also for my prelim application? (This doctor is an internist that I got to know throughout my 3 years in school). Any newly-matched students please let me know, thanks!

Most people do not get two sets of letters unless you plan to apply into a "backup specialty" other than ophtho. The SFMatch accepts 3 letters and NRMP accepts 4 letters so plan accordingly. Prelim and TY years have no problem reading you specialty specific letters or letters that address the fact that you want to go into ophtho. They understand that it is your primary concern for the application season. My advice for letters would be to obtain 2 ophtho letters, 1 medicine/surgery letter and one additional letter from anyone who knows you well and can write a personal letter. This could be from a small subspecialty rotation, away rotation, basic science researcher...maybe even a mentor or community member.

When you apply most people would suggest this:

SF Match: Include the two Ophtho letters and your Medicine/Surgery letter. If for some reason your "wildcard" letter is really something special (maybe you read books with Michelle Obama to children with visual impairments) then it could possibly supercede the standard med/surg attending letter.

NRMP: Include the two ophtho letters and your other two letters.

My own configuration included:1) PD at an away rotation (ophtho) 2) Attending at my own home institution who I worked with in clinic, surgery and basic science research 3) Medicine attending and site director where I obtained honors 4) Family Medicine clerkship director who I worked with personally, wrote a short peer-reviewed paper with and received honors in his course. I sent 1-3 to SF Match and 1-4 to NRMP.

Note: My Ophtho department's chair would only write letters for students with who he had worked with extensively. This was only 1 of 10 applicants from my school (I think).

Check with previous applicants and/or your faculty mentor in ophtho from your school to see who is known to write good LORs and what your Chair's policy is on writing letters. Some chairs write letters for all applicants regardless of how well known the applicant is to them.

Hope this helps!

 

[kwel]

does anyone apply with 3 letters from ophtho? I know it's nice to "diversify" your app and everything, but would 3 ophtho vs. 2+1 hurt you?

 

[ophtho4321]

i'd actually recommend 3 ophtho letters if you can get it for SF match. I had 2 excellent ophtho letters and 1 excellent medicine letter, and not a single ophtho interviewer mentioned my medicine letter. As my chairman put it, "we have different standards in ophtho of what we think a good student is than they do in medicine, so it doesn't really matter to me what an internal medicine attending says."

use a medicine letter for TY/prelims along with the ophtho letters.

 

[jd123]

Your chairman sounds like a huge tool.

3 ophtho letters is probably better than 2 +1 though. It just increases the likelihood that the interviewer either recognizes the name or actually knows the person.

 

[wakeringer]

Your chairman sounds like a huge tool.

3 ophtho letters is probably better than 2 +1 though. It just increases the likelihood that the interviewer either recognizes the name or actually knows the person.

I do agree with this statement. Interviewers love when they know your writer. However, I do feel that my medicine letter was advantageous. It was not a generic letter and was extremely personable. In my situation it worked well and I had at least 7-8 interviewers mention that letter specifically and some of the memorable comments within it.

If you are comparing two average to above average (not exceptional) letters between IM and Ophtho for letter #3, use the Ophtho.

 

[eyesteve]

does anyone apply with 3 letters from ophtho? I know it's nice to "diversify" your app and everything, but would 3 ophtho vs. 2+1 hurt you?

Until reading the posts in response to your question, I hadn't even considered sending three ophtho letters vs. two ophtho letters and an "additional" letter. As I prepared my application, I tried to follow as closely as possible what the SF Match Instructions said, which is, "Three (3) ORIGINAL letters of reference are required for review by the programs. No more, no less. It is recommended that residency applicants provide one letter from a core rotation." While it appears that several applicants sent three ophtho letters, I would actually propose that the majority of applicants send two ophtho letters and a non-ophtho letter from a core rotation. Perhaps a program director or other knowledgeable colleague that has gone through applications could weigh in on whether the majority of applicants send 2 versus 3 ophtho letters. At the end of the day it probably doesn't matter either way, but as I said, I hadn't even considered sending 3 ophtho letters until just now.

It may seem overly analytical and borderline OCD, but when making the decision of sending two ophtho and 1 other vs 3 ophtho letters, take a step back and assess your own application. Did you have several honors in your core rotations during your third year i.e. medicine, surgery, etc. or did you perhaps have few/no honors in these rotations. Why do I think this matters? Well, if you are going to send three ophtho letters, then hopefully your clerkship grades will speak to your strong performance in the core rotations. Otherwise, you may get questions in interviews as to why you didn't get a letter from a core rotation but instead loaded up on ophtho letters. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can think of several interviewers by name that would have actually found pleasure harassing me during interviews if I were an applicant that had three ophtho letters AND had not performed well on clerkships. A handful of interviewers will look for a potential weakness in your application and challenge you on it just to test you. Not saying sending three is bad, but just think about it and be sure that it doesn't appear you are hiding a weakness in medicine/surgery or other core rotations. Again, while it appears that several colleagues sent three ophtho letters and found this approach to be quite successful, I would personally err on the side of being conservative and just following the instructions in the SF Match Instructions as I cited previously.

The challenge of coordinating the ophtho application and the ERAS application is the timeline. You will want to have your ophtho letters (2 or 3, depending) and the additional letter ready in time for your ophtho application to be sent to SF Match at the beginning of August. The ERAS application, however, isn't available to programs until mid-September and you will likely use several of the same letters used in your ophtho application for the ERAS application. If you ask your non-ophtho letter writers to write two letters--one for your ophtho app and one for your ERAS internship app, there is a chance they will get the letters mixed up and send the one with the official form to SF Match and the one without the official form to ERAS (translating into extra hassle for you and for them). Personally, I tried to alleviate letter-confusion by giving each letter writer two envelopes, and in each envelope I put the official letter of recommendation request required for the ERAS application. I had called SF Match previously and they said this wouldn't be a problem and they would just toss the ERAS letter of request form. I then let my letter writers decide whether they were writing to my strengths as a potential ophtho resident or as a potential intern. I don't think it really changed the content of the letter either way. Both signed/sealed envelopes were then sent to my Dean's office - the ophtho letter was put to the side awaiting the arrival of the other letters and the ERAS letter was uploaded into the system. I feel as though this approach minimized letter writer confusion and hopefully made life easier for everyone.

In summary:
1. You can apparently send 3 ophtho letters, though 2 and 1 is the official recommendation from the SF Match.
2. It probably doesn't matter whether you ask your letter writers to write separate letters for your ophtho application and your internship application. I recommend making life easier for them and just asking them to write it for your ophtho application. Otherwise, you run the risk of the ophtho letter going to ERAS and the internship letter going to SF Match (badness).

 

[Merlin0082]

Until reading the posts in response to your question, I hadn't even considered sending three ophtho letters vs. two ophtho letters and an "additional" letter. As I prepared my application, I tried to follow as closely as possible what the SF Match Instructions said, which is, "Three (3) ORIGINAL letters of reference are required for review by the programs. No more, no less. It is recommended that residency applicants provide one letter from a core rotation." While it appears that several applicants sent three ophtho letters, I would actually propose that the majority of applicants send two ophtho letters and a non-ophtho letter from a core rotation. Perhaps a program director or other knowledgeable colleague that has gone through applications could weigh in on whether the majority of applicants send 2 versus 3 ophtho letters. At the end of the day it probably doesn't matter either way, but as I said, I hadn't even considered sending 3 ophtho letters until just now.

It may seem overly analytical and borderline OCD, but when making the decision of sending two ophtho and 1 other vs 3 ophtho letters, take a step back and assess your own application. Did you have several honors in your core rotations during your third year i.e. medicine, surgery, etc. or did you perhaps have few/no honors in these rotations. Why do I think this matters? Well, if you are going to send three ophtho letters, then hopefully your clerkship grades will speak to your strong performance in the core rotations. Otherwise, you may get questions in interviews as to why you didn't get a letter from a core rotation but instead loaded up on ophtho letters. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can think of several interviewers by name that would have actually found pleasure harassing me during interviews if I were an applicant that had three ophtho letters AND had not performed well on clerkships. A handful of interviewers will look for a potential weakness in your application and challenge you on it just to test you. Not saying sending three is bad, but just think about it and be sure that it doesn't appear you are hiding a weakness in medicine/surgery or other core rotations. Again, while it appears that several colleagues sent three ophtho letters and found this approach to be quite successful, I would personally err on the side of being conservative and just following the instructions in the SF Match Instructions as I cited previously.

The challenge of coordinating the ophtho application and the ERAS application is the timeline. You will want to have your ophtho letters (2 or 3, depending) and the additional letter ready in time for your ophtho application to be sent to SF Match at the beginning of August. The ERAS application, however, isn't available to programs until mid-September and you will likely use several of the same letters used in your ophtho application for the ERAS application. If you ask your non-ophtho letter writers to write two letters--one for your ophtho app and one for your ERAS internship app, there is a chance they will get the letters mixed up and send the one with the official form to SF Match and the one without the official form to ERAS (translating into extra hassle for you and for them). Personally, I tried to alleviate letter-confusion by giving each letter writer two envelopes, and in each envelope I put the official letter of recommendation request required for the ERAS application. I had called SF Match previously and they said this wouldn't be a problem and they would just toss the ERAS letter of request form. I then let my letter writers decide whether they were writing to my strengths as a potential ophtho resident or as a potential intern. I don't think it really changed the content of the letter either way. Both signed/sealed envelopes were then sent to my Dean's office - the ophtho letter was put to the side awaiting the arrival of the other letters and the ERAS letter was uploaded into the system. I feel as though this approach minimized letter writer confusion and hopefully made life easier for everyone.

In summary:
1. You can apparently send 3 ophtho letters, though 2 and 1 is the official recommendation from the SF Match.
2. It probably doesn't matter whether you ask your letter writers to write separate letters for your ophtho application and your internship application. I recommend making life easier for them and just asking them to write it for your ophtho application. Otherwise, you run the risk of the ophtho letter going to ERAS and the internship letter going to SF Match (badness).

I have a question. Is it a bad idea to get a recommendation from a very junior attending? I worked very closely with an internal medicine attending, who has only been practicing for 3 years. Is this letter ok to ask for, or would a senior attending only work?

 

[JMK2005]

if the junior attending knows you better and can write a strong letter, go with him.

 

[wakeringer]

if the junior attending knows you better and can write a strong letter, go with him.

I have a question. Is it a bad idea to get a recommendation from a very junior attending? I worked very closely with an internal medicine attending, who has only been practicing for 3 years. Is this letter ok to ask for, or would a senior attending only work?

Yup. Most - or most likely all - Ophtho people reviewing your app will have no clue who either one of them are so you are going to want to pick the one who will write you a stronger letter.