Question on extended training for nys licensure applying through FSMB

[Sme611]

I'm a current 2nd year resident and my pgy1 training was extended for an additional 6 months ( was not put on probation though or any disciplinary action) . I'm interested in applying for a NYS license ( I'm eligible as passed my boards and completed 1st year as a US grad). I chose to apply through FSMB ( FCVS service) as heard it's less tedious and saves some paperwork.

There's a question that FSMB asks and was wondering whether the answer would be no : Were any limitations or special requirements imposed on you because of academic incompetence, disciplinary problems or for any other reason?

thank you!

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[NotAProgDirector]

I would answer that in the negative unless there is more to the story. But don't be surprised when they want all sorts of documentation from your program about your extension, and if they ultimately decide not to give you a license without additional training.

 

[gutonc]

Agree with my learned colleague @NotAProgDirector.

The answer to the question as asked (assuming you are telling us all relevant issues) is "no". So there's definitely no limitation on your application from that perspective. But that doesn't mean you won't run into any obstructions.

 

[Sme611]

I would answer that in the negative unless there is more to the story. But don't be surprised when they want all sorts of documentation from your program about your extension, and if they ultimately decide not to give you a license without additional training.

Not to give a license , additional training in what? Isn't a license based on completing pgy1 and step 3

 

[Sme611]

Also to clarify the nys medical board did not ask a similar question but i did put in the dates, any gaps etc. This is FSBM asking..

 

[NotAProgDirector]

A license is at the board's discretion. If there were problems in your PGY-1, they may want further details before giving you a license. Or perhaps not. It's up to them to decide.

 

[Sme611]

Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?

I'm assuming if my training was only extended this would also be no for the answer.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Correct

 

[hamstergang]

my pgy1 training was extended for an additional 6 months ( was not put on probation though or any disciplinary action) . ...

Were any limitations or special requirements imposed on you because of academic incompetence, disciplinary problems or for any other reason?

Does remediation for failed rotations resulting in 6 months being added to PGY-1 not count as any of this? I don't deal with credentialing, but I'm struggling to figure out how that wouldn't be a special requirement imposed due to academic incompetence.

 

[Sme611]

Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?

I'm assuming if my training was only extended this would also be no for the answer.

OP here. So, I spoke to someone that helps in answering these questions and was saying should err in side of caution and answer yes to this question above (Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?)- however I checked with my PD and she agreed I answered correctly.

Does this make sense that the answer should be yes if my training was remidiated/extended and should try to change/ update my application? I'm wondering how this will also look.

Thanks

 

[Iamnew2]

OP here. So, I spoke to someone that helps in answering these questions and was saying should err in side of caution and answer yes to this question above (Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?)- however I checked with my PD and she agreed I answered correctly.

Does this make sense that the answer should be yes if my training was remidiated/extended and should try to change/ update my application? I'm wondering how this will also look.

Thanks

I would agree with APD and gutonc - the answer should be no. You might want to make a note that your training was extended 6 months but saying yes not only opens up a world of disaster for you, but if you were not terminated or restricted, and you didn't resign/withdraw - then I would again say "no." If it's not probation (and I knew someone whose training was extended and in the same way as you don't think they were put on probation) - but again I would say no. Saying yes doesn't see would be correct, and you'll have to explain that for the rest of your life, which will be a mess - for something that it seems your program went out of their way to avoid - ie - to put you on probation.

 

[Sme611]

I would agree with APD and gutonc - the answer should be no. You might want to make a note that your training was extended 6 months but saying yes not only opens up a world of disaster for you, but if you were not terminated or restricted, and you didn't resign/withdraw - then I would again say "no." If it's not probation (and I knew someone whose training was extended and in the same way as you don't think they were put on probation) - but again I would say no. Saying yes doesn't see would be correct, and you'll have to explain that for the rest of your life, which will be a mess - for something that it seems your program went out of their way to avoid - ie - to put you on probation.

Thanks.
Yes they avoided the probation. My understanding is if it comes up and they find out about it can be much worse- you need to go before the board ie answer more questions about your moral character etc. Either way i can't change my answer as I already put no and confirmed with my PD that I answered correctly. However, they said can send them an email explaining the situation, and can say that I put no after confirming with my PD but I want to disclose the extension/ remidiation etc. Would this be a good idea? Like this I'm disclosing everything?

Did this other person/ friend of yours apply for licensure and not mention the remidiation?

 

[Iamnew2]

Thanks.
Yes they avoided the probation. My understanding is if it comes up and they find out about it can be much worse- you need to go before the board ie answer more questions about your moral character etc. Either way i can't change my answer as I already put no and confirmed with my PD that I answered correctly. However, they said can send them an email explaining the situation, and can say that I put no after confirming with my PD but I want to disclose the extension/ remidiation etc. Would this be a good idea? Like this I'm disclosing everything?

Did this other person/ friend of yours apply for licensure and not mention the remidiation?

I would have said no but put a brief statement of - training was extended for 6 months. I don' tknow the specifics of this person's licensure, but I do know she went onto a Heme/Onc fellowship. So couldn't have been too bad.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If your PD says to answer it yes, then that's what you should probably do. You want your documentation and theirs to line up.

 

[Sme611]

If your PD says to answer it yes, then that's what you should probably do. You want your documentation and theirs to line up.

Just to clarify-My PD said i answered this question correctly- which I put no: ( Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?)

However I asked an attny ( its free through my hospital union so figured why not double check with them). They said they would put yes just to err on side of caution. However I have already submitted it based on my judgement and my PDs response, but only thing I can do is send them a statement explaining my situation and that i checked with my pd.

Would you agree with this ? Or feel the answer should still be no? I don't think remidiation or extension = restricted training but it seems if they would consider it or find out and come back about it would be worse.

Thanks

 

[Iamnew2]

Just to clarify-My PD said i answered this question correctly- which I put no: ( Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?)

However I asked an attny ( its free through my hospital union so figured why not double check with them). They said they would put yes just to err on side of caution. However I have already submitted it based on my judgement and my PDs response, but only thing I can do is send them a statement explaining my situation and that i checked with my pd.

Would you agree with this ? Or feel the answer should still be no? I don't think remidiation or extension = restricted training but it seems if they would consider it or find out and come back about it would be worse.

Thanks

Lawyers = idiots in my opinion. Your PD said you answered correctly = no. Most of us also believe you answered correctly as no. I wouldn't trust what a lawyer in this case says. Repeat: lawyers = idiots.

 

[Sme611]

Lawyers = idiots in my opinion. Your PD said you answered correctly = no. Most of us also believe you answered correctly as no. I wouldn't trust what a lawyer in this case says. Repeat: lawyers = idiots.

Agree at first figured they are trying to make this more complicated than it seems and since my union pays for it it's more work and money for them. But they also try to scare you i guess. But i figured i would err on side of caution and just email them explaining the situation? And don't necessarily need to change my answer just explain that i confirmed with my PD but after discussing with this lawyer they felt should change answer.

These questions are so vague and we're all just trying to do the right thing and answer correctly.

But this question on FCVS, however, I did answer yes to err on side of caution- do you though agree on this:

"Were any limitations or special requirements imposed on you because of academic incompetence, disciplinary problems or for any other reason?"

Thanks!

 

[Iamnew2]

Agree at first figured they are trying to make this more complicated than it seems and since my union pays for it it's more work and money for them. But they also try to scare you i guess. But i figured i would err on side of caution and just email them explaining the situation? And don't necessarily need to change my answer just explain that i confirmed with my PD but after discussing with this lawyer they felt should change answer.

These questions are so vague and we're all just trying to do the right thing and answer correctly.

But this question on FCVS, however, I did answer yes to err on side of caution- do you though agree on this:

"Were any limitations or special requirements imposed on you because of academic incompetence, disciplinary problems or for any other reason?"

Thanks!

I would not do FCVS. I think it complicates things for one and can create issues in the future. License apps are not that complex that you can't do them yourself. I guess the above would be yes but it's different to have incompetence, disciplinary problems or other reason - also the term incompetence seems rather harsh. Plenty of people are put on probation/some sort of remediation, doesn't mean they are "incompetent." I honestly would withdraw FCVS. That will follow you for the rest of your life. I'd just do the apps individually.

 

[Sme611]

I would not do FCVS. I think it complicates things for one and can create issues in the future. License apps are not that complex that you can't do them yourself. I guess the above would be yes but it's different to have incompetence, disciplinary problems or other reason - also the term incompetence seems rather harsh. Plenty of people are put on probation/some sort of remediation, doesn't mean they are "incompetent." I honestly would withdraw FCVS. That will follow you for the rest of your life. I'd just do the apps individually.

Thanks.

I figured would do fcvs as would be easier in future for multiple states, plus my union reimburses for it.

But mentioning the remidiation on FCVS do you think would really be that much of an issue? Like you said its pretty common..

 

[Iamnew2]

Thanks.

I figured would do fcvs as would be easier in future for multiple states, plus my union reimburses for it.

But mentioning the remidiation on FCVS do you think would really be that much of an issue? Like you said its pretty common..

I wouldn’t say remediation is common. I said that most people who are out on remediation are hardly incompetent. Most remediation are not due to true medical or lack of knowledge issues but rather personality issues or dislike of the resident. Putting remediation on an app is not a small issue - fcvs I would say away from regardless of reimbursement for it. But ultimately is your decision. I long ago made the decision that I would not use fcvs unless a state requires it.

 

[Sme611]

I wouldn’t say remediation is common. I said that most people who are out on remediation are hardly incompetent. Most remediation are not due to true medical or lack of knowledge issues but rather personality issues or dislike of the resident. Putting remediation on an app is not a small issue - fcvs I would say away from regardless of reimbursement for it. But ultimately is your decision. I long ago made the decision that I would not use fcvs unless a state requires it.

Agree with this as I did above average on my boards during residency so likely had the medical knowledge- can be many factors, like you said etc. but I won't go into that here for sake of anonymity. I know fcvs people were complaining about the timeliness issue, not sure if that's what you mean.

But i feel like will end up mentioning the remediation anyways to the board (like possibly emailing them so can have a clear conscious that said everything), so it's not much more than also saying if on the fcvs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Just to clarify-My PD said i answered this question correctly- which I put no: ( Has any hospital, licensed facility, or clinical laboratory restricted or terminated your professional training, employment, or privileges or have you ever voluntarily or involuntarily resigned or withdrawn from such association to avoid imposition of such measures?)

However I asked an attny ( its free through my hospital union so figured why not double check with them). They said they would put yes just to err on side of caution. However I have already submitted it based on my judgement and my PDs response, but only thing I can do is send them a statement explaining my situation and that i checked with my pd.

Would you agree with this ? Or feel the answer should still be no? I don't think remidiation or extension = restricted training but it seems if they would consider it or find out and come back about it would be worse.

Thanks

Answer no and that's it. I was surprised when I thought your PD suggested that you should answer yes.

 

[Sme611]

Answer no and that's it. I was surprised when I thought your PD suggested that you should answer yes.

Of course, agree with this, which is why I originally answered no.

But no need to err on side of caution- any possibility for them to say I was being evasive by not mentioning remidiation/ extended training?

Thanks!