Questions about Carribean Med School

BU Medical Sciences
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
5

558363

I know many people consider going to the Caribbean medical schools if they don't have high enough GPA and/or MCAT for MD or DO schools in the US. My first question is what are the average GPAs and MCATs for these students. I know some schools don't even require an MCAT, but for the 'top tier' ones that do, what are they?

My parents tell me that numerous sons and daughters of their family friends have went to medical school in the Caribbean and successfully gotten into residency into the United States. However, what's the trend looking like in the future? Say I enter medical school in 2015, by 2019, will the potential to get into residencies in the United States be extremely low for Caribbean medical school graduates.

Is it simply better to just reapply again the following year to MD/DO schools or even do an SMP than go to the Caribbean?
Members don't see this ad.
 
as a current carib student, I would advise going the carib route as residency is getting harder to secure. Can you get a residency? Sure but its a gamble....a very expensive one might I add!
 
Seneschal said:
I know many people consider going to the Caribbean medical schools if they don't have high enough GPA and/or MCAT for MD or DO schools in the US. My first question is what are the average GPAs and MCATs for these students. I know some schools don't even require an MCAT, but for the 'top tier' ones that do, what are they?

My parents tell me that numerous sons and daughters of their family friends have went to medical school in the Caribbean and successfully gotten into residency into the United States. However, what's the trend looking like in the future? Say I enter medical school in 2015, by 2019, will the potential to get into residencies in the United States be extremely low for Caribbean medical school graduates.

Is it simply better to just reapply again the following year to MD/DO schools or even do an SMP than go to the Caribbean?
Click to expand...

Chances are already p*ss poor and just getting worse by the year.

As for MCAT/GPA requirements, Ross is generally considered #1 of the big 4 and their numbers -- according to legal documents they had to submit to the state of NY (which means they couldn't lie, unlike the info they give their Admissions people) -- place their MCAT averages at 6-8/section and GPA around like 3.2.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
What if you are a good student - who grades/MCAT wise- would make it to a decent medical school (3.8/32), but for some reason couldn't secure a spot at a US school. Say they go to Carrib, succeed, score well on boards, do they not have a shot at decent residencies?
 
nabilesmail said:
What if you are a good student - who grades/MCAT wise- would make it to a decent medical school (3.8/32), but for some reason couldn't secure a spot at a US school. Say they go to Carrib, succeed, score well on boards, do they not have a shot at decent residencies?
Click to expand...

No. You never will have as good a shot coming from the Caribbean as from a US school. You can be the top student from the Caribbean with the top board scores, and an enormous number of entire specialties, let alone residencies, will be closed to you. So as the US med schools increase their enrollment to ultimately approximate the number of residency slots, something that is in process, the offshore students will start to not get any slots. When will this come to fruition? Hard to say, but I sure wouldn't want to be applying to an offshore school now or going forward. This was a reasonable path of a previous generation. Now not.
 
I don't remember if it was Ross or Saint George but they have clinical rotations mostly in NY, so those are where most of the carib students end up getting matching.
I think like about 1~2 students in each specialty do get residencies somewhere other than those NY locations, from what I saw last time I was checking out their match list.

Most of them do match with a residency, but I'm not sure if the match list is 100% reliable.
 
KindofBlue said:
I don't remember if it was Ross or Saint George but they have clinical rotations mostly in NY, so those are where most of the carib students end up getting matching.
I think like about 1~2 students in each specialty do get residencies somewhere other than those NY locations, from what I saw last time I was checking out their match list.

Most of them do match with a residency, but I'm not sure if the match list is 100% reliable.
Click to expand...

Sorry. This is patently false. "Most" means over 50%; however, approximately 52% of those who begin medical school at Ross will NEVER get into a residency program -- and that is using numbers from a few years ago when times were better for them. Now it's probably closer 60-80% for their current classes.
 
music2doc said:
Sorry. This is patently false. "Most" means over 50%; however, approximately 52% of those who begin medical school at Ross will NEVER get into a residency program -- and that is using numbers from a few years ago when times were better for them. Now it's probably closer 60-80% for their current classes.
Click to expand...

I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious how you found out?
I just figured most of them did match since they were advertising about 700 students matched in 2013 on their webiste.
Do you mean a lot of students who start at Carib schools end up getting kicked out or something? I guess they could have also contorted the numbers somehow, but just wondering.
 
KindofBlue said:
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious how you found out?
I just figured most of them did match since they were advertising about 700 students matched in 2013 on their webiste.
Do you mean a lot of students who start at Carib schools end up getting kicked out or something? I guess they could have also contorted the numbers somehow, but just wondering.
Click to expand...

They weed like crazy. Uncle was at Ross 10 years ago. A-F grading, half the time for each anatomy question (whilst standing above the cadaver to name the pinned muscle/bone/organ) as most US med students get (15 sec vs. 30 sec). Back then, ~40% of the class was out by the end of preclinical.
 
Basically, I'm getting the vibe that it's better to find a way, even if it requires additional years of EC experience, post-undergrad coursework, or reapplications, to get into an MD or DO school than going to the Carribean.

That sucks, I didn't think the situation was that unfavorable.
 
Seneschal said:
Basically, I'm getting the vibe that it's better to find a way, even if it requires additional years of EC experience, post-undergrad coursework, or reapplications, to get into an MD or DO school than going to the Carribean.

That sucks, I didn't think the situation was that unfavorable.
Click to expand...

There was an editorial in NEJM very recently that very clearly laid out why going Caribbean is a terrible idea. It's called the 'The Residency Mismatch'. Go read it. And don't go Caribbean.
 
KindofBlue said:
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious how you found out?
I just figured most of them did match since they were advertising about 700 students matched in 2013 on their webiste.
Do you mean a lot of students who start at Carib schools end up getting kicked out or something? I guess they could have also contorted the numbers somehow, but just wondering.
Click to expand...

An article was published back in 2010 by an investigative journalist. The findings, as I recall, were roughly:

70% of Ross students take at least 5 years to finish (i.e., 70% do not finish on time). 35% never graduate. Of those who graduate, less than 80% will ever match. (Keep in mind they reduce this number on their website by specifying "eligible" graduates....)

(100% - 35%) * 0.80 = 52%

So that math gives 52% as eventually entering residency.

Given that residency directors have been quoted as rating Ross grad quality as, "Unpredictable at best. Some come in reasonably well-prepared...while others struggle excessively and must be dismissed," we can pretty confidently say <50% are getting licensed and practicing as physicians as of the 2010 graduating class. And since this number drops annually as the ratio of residency spots:medical school graduates becomes tighter and tighter, <<50% of incoming students are likely to get into a residency program in future years.
 
KindofBlue said:
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, just curious how you found out?
I just figured most of them did match since they were advertising about 700 students matched in 2013 on their webiste.
Do you mean a lot of students who start at Carib schools end up getting kicked out or something? I guess they could have also contorted the numbers somehow, but just wondering.
Click to expand...

When you have 3 incoming classes of about 500-600 each every year, 700 matches really isn't that many. Keep in mind as well that they are counting matches from previous years that failed their first (or second or third...) go-around. That 700 matched number correlates to about 1/2 their class, which is exactly what we predicted.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Seneschal said:
Basically, I'm getting the vibe that it's better to find a way, even if it requires additional years of EC experience, post-undergrad coursework, or reapplications, to get into an MD or DO school than going to the Carribean.

That sucks, I didn't think the situation was that unfavorable.
Click to expand...

Yep this is the case. 20 years ago? not so much, but times have changed and if you are looking to stay in the U.S to practice, the islands aren't a viable option anymore.

They will continue to fill their classes every year though, unfortunately.
 
Theoretically, couldn't someone who goes to a Caribbean med school get a residency in, well, the Caribbean?
 
music2doc said:
An article was published back in 2010 by an investigative journalist. The findings, as I recall, were roughly:

70% of Ross students take at least 5 years to finish (i.e., 70% do not finish on time). 35% never graduate. Of those who graduate, less than 80% will ever match. (Keep in mind they reduce this number on their website by specifying "eligible" graduates....)

(100% - 35%) * 0.80 = 52%

So that math gives 52% as eventually entering residency.

Given that residency directors have been quoted as rating Ross grad quality as, "Unpredictable at best. Some come in reasonably well-prepared...while others struggle excessively and must be dismissed," we can pretty confidently say <50% are getting licensed and practicing as physicians as of the 2010 graduating class. And since this number drops annually as the ratio of residency spots:medical school graduates becomes tighter and tighter, <<50% of incoming students are likely to get into a residency program in future years.
Click to expand...

If you have a link to the article, please post.

I don't doubt this is true, but why couldn't a US citizen scrape together some crappy FM or IM program as opposed to never becoming a licensed physician? Makes no sense to me.
 
Benedictus123 said:
Theoretically, couldn't someone who goes to a Caribbean med school get a residency in, well, the Caribbean?
Click to expand...

No. These are schools set up to train people to work in the US. None of these islands have the population density to support many doctors, even if the required training for licensure in those jurisdictions was identical.
 
Mt Kilimanjaro said:
If you have a link to the article, please post.

I don't doubt this is true, but why couldn't a US citizen scrape together some crappy FM or IM program as opposed to never becoming a licensed physician? Makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...

Because there's always going to be more qualified applicants than residency slots, and a lackluster Caribbean grad isn't the top of anyone's list. Also bear in mind that (1) the match isn't the only route to a residency slot, so its unclear if this statistic includes everyone, and (2) of those that get residencies some only get one year prelim type dead end spots and still may be in a bad spot career wise, and (3) a Lot has happened since 2010 -- no more pre matches, the scramble got turned to soap, and there are many more US grads these days without much increase in residency slots.
 
Well, looks like the islands are out of the picture. Damn...studying on the beach actually seemed like a rather nice vision.

How about Canada, or Britain, or Australia?
 
Seneschal said:
I know many people consider going to the Caribbean medical schools if they don't have high enough GPA and/or MCAT for MD or DO schools in the US.
Click to expand...

Not on these forums.

Seneschal said:
Well, looks like the islands are out of the picture. Damn...studying on the beach actually seemed like a rather nice vision.

How about Canada, or Britain, or Australia?
Click to expand...

You'll still be a FMG.
 
Seneschal said:
Well, looks like the islands are out of the picture. Damn...studying on the beach actually seemed like a rather nice vision.

How about Canada, or Britain, or Australia?
Click to expand...

Retake any C+'s or lower you made and get A's. Apply DO. DO schools do grade replacement, so your old grade essentially goes away when calculating your GPA for applications.

Score at least a 30 on the MCAT, shadow a DO, maybe even get a DO LoR.


You could do an SMP and retake classes, and apply MD, but it's your best bet to do DO if your worrying your GPA/MCAT might not be high enough to get into the Caribbean.
 
Seneschal said:
Well, looks like the islands are out of the picture. Damn...studying on the beach actually seemed like a rather nice vision.

How about Canada, or Britain, or Australia?
Click to expand...

You can still study on the beach...if you go to Cali or South Beach :cool:
 
I would do anything to get into UC San Diego.

My friends and I took a long weekend trip over there last summer - best place ever. After living through Michigan's winter and unpredictable weather for my entire life, San Diego seems like heaven.
 
FWIW, I'm in a research program that caters mostly to previously graduated med students who, for various reasons, did not enter into residency directly after graduating. 4 of them are from Carib. schools and they have nothing good to say about it; Thier reasons for being here are strictly because they failed to match (one of them even blames DO students for taking all the spots - rediculous, I know). Each of them says, if given the chance, they'd have just taken another year or so to get in over here as they feel they'd have matched into residency no problem given thier STEP scores and grades.

I'm glad I'm fortunate enough not to have to deal with this issue but I think I would take a year or more off if I was chosing between that and the Carib. schools. Unless you're like a super-nontrad (40+), this time is but a drop in the bucket.

Just my opinion...
 
PennDippody said:
... Unless you're like a super-nontrad (40+), this time is but a drop in the bucket.

Just my opinion...
Click to expand...

While i dont disagree with the majority of your post. I'd actually say an older nontrad is facing enough hurdles and biases already that adding being a Caribbean grad to the mix would pretty much dig a hole too deep to climb out of. Nobody is going to look at you differently if you finish at 45 versus 47. So no, trying to save a year is meaningless at every age.

Not to mention that offshore grads often lose a year at Caribbean schools because they have to meet internal hurdles, may have difficulty scheduling required rotations etc, and then if they don't match may end up doing a research year or maybe if they do match, a dead end one year prelim, which they may have to repeat. So a lot of time this path actually takes longer.
 
Law2Doc said:
While i dont disagree with the majority of your post. I'd actually say an older nontrad is facing enough hurdles and biases already that adding being a Caribbean grad to the mix would pretty much dig a hole too deep to climb out of. Nobody is going to look at you differently if you finish at 45 versus 47. So no, trying to save a year is meaningless at every age.

Not to mention that offshore grads often lose a year at Caribbean schools because they have to meet internal hurdles, may have difficulty scheduling required rotations etc, and then if they don't match may end up doing a research year or maybe if they do match, a dead end one year prelim, which they may have to repeat. So a lot of time this path actually takes longer.
Click to expand...

I was meaning on a personal level - not so much on how one would fare through the various hurdles, but insofar as I would think much deeper and harder about trading in a year or two at 40+ for just about any change of career.

As for often having to spend an extra year or more after graduating offshore (which I really didn't realize until your post), Id say it only serves to fortify my position on waiting to get in somewhere stateside.
 
Last edited:
Law2Doc said:
It's called "med school" and not "happy fun time" for a reason.
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean you gotta study during your vacation time :D

Unless they are evil and give you three exams the week after your vacation :scared:
 
You can always learn spanish and go to a puerto rican med school.
 
pigletgurl90 said:
You can always learn spanish and go to a puerto rican med school.
Click to expand...

If only learning foreign languages from scratch were that easy.


images
 
Radon XP said:
If only learning foreign languages from scratch were that easy.


images
Click to expand...

Wait.... You mean those internet ads that say "professors hate this guy, 1 weird trick to learn a new language quick" aren't legit? Dang....
 
I am thinking about applying to Caribbean medical schools. I know a lot of people who have attended Caribbean schools and have successfully gotten residencies in the US. Is going to the Caribbean a good decision? I keep hearing good and bad things about this and I am extremely confused if I should even bother applying.
 
Did you read this thread? Did you do a search of the forum for other threads? Obviously the answer is NO to both questions. Now if you are serious and not a troll go read this thread and do a search.
 
This is a newbie asking for information without making an effort to find it for himself/herself. Pay no attention. :slap:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

S
AUC or Law School?
Replies
7
Views
1K
Splenda88
S
D
BS/MD Carribean
Replies
1
Views
959
KnightDoc
K
U
Caribbean withdrawal to US MD school odds?
Replies
23
Views
5K
Gambino.
Gambino.
C
  • Locked
Devils advocate: why is it okay to crap on carribean schools but not DO?
Replies
21
Views
2K
gyngyn
gyngyn
karelesss
Thoughts on Carribean school? Also, retakes in udergrad?
Replies
27
Views
1K
Robin-jay
Robin-jay
Top