Questions about podiatry students and residencies

Discussion in 'Podiatry Students' started by VolibearMain, Oct 10, 2017 at 12:43 PM.

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  1. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    After finally looking at the residency list and requirements
    http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/Directory/Dir_MinGPA_crj.pdf

    It seems there are still options for lots of people with sub 3.0 GPA's. Which leads me to

    1. What exactly defines a "good residency"?

    2. Does a good residency translate to a higher paying job?

    3. Does a bad residency prevent you from anything in your own private practice

    4. For the students who fail classes in podiatry school, do they still get residencies? Ive met a few and don't really understand if the minimum GPA is around 2.5 for the lowest residencies, how are they going to manage, is there a loophole to this?

    5. Do people at the average residencies (3.0 tier) still have the same opportunities as people at the high residencies. I strongly believe in effort and reward. If someone puts a ton of effort into school and works hard to be the top of their class hopefully they see some benefit compared to the guy who chilled all day and passed classes. However based on the one podiatrist I shadowed, he went to the Fairfax residency , his salary was pretty low (170 k in a long-term established private practice in the silicon valley) with little competition for miles, and he was also struggling and thinking of selling his practice to another podiatrist about 15 miles south.
     
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  3. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    1. What exactly defines a "good residency"?
    Typically a good residency is defined as a program that gives you adequate exposure to surgery, so that when you graduate you are comfortable doing procedures on your own. Also a good residency should prepare you clinically to be able to diagnose and treat anything you encounter. Currently what defines a high powered residency is a program that gives the residents a exceedingly high amount of surgical volume. A "good residency" is all relative and it's more so what you are looking for in a residency, what fits your personality and your preferred location.

    2. Does a good residency translate to a higher paying job?
    I wouldn't say a good residency necessarily translates into a higher paying job. If you were in a practice that was somehow able to do orthotics and ingrown nails all day long. I would say you would be a pretty wealthy podiatrists.

    3. Does a bad residency prevent you from anything in your own private practice
    Going to a "bad" residency usually means less amount of surgical exposure, so I could see it preventing you from being comfortable with doing certain procedures. At the same exact time you could be very adventurous and try stuff that you've never done in residency.

    4. For the students who fail classes in podiatry school, do they still get residencies? Ive met a few and don't really understand if the minimum GPA is around 2.5 for the lowest residencies, how are they going to manage, is there a loophole to this?
    Yes people that have failed classes still get residencies. I don't get it either.

    5. Do people at the average residencies (3.0 tier) still have the same opportunities as people at the high residencies. I strongly believe in effort and reward. If someone puts a ton of effort into school and works hard to be the top of their class hopefully they see some benefit compared to the guy who chilled all day and passed classes. However based on the one podiatrist I shadowed, he went to the Fairfax residency , his salary was pretty low (170 k in a long-term established private practice in the silicon valley) with little competition for miles, and he was also struggling and thinking of selling his practice to another podiatrist about 15 miles south.
    At the end of the day making money in podiatry isn't about who is the best surgeon, it's who is the best at making money. Going to an average or high tier residency doesn't equate to being a good businessman. I would say that going to a higher powered program usually gives you more of an advantage at getting a fellowship and you are more comfortable with doing procedures when you leave your residency. I can tell you that bad residencies produce good surgeons and good residencies also produce bad surgeons, so it's all based on the individual.

    I don't want to discourage you from trying to get into a great residency. There are a lot of perks to going to a good residency. Residents that graduate from a good residency typically go into fellowships not because they need more training, but it's usually cause they want to do more advanced procedures. Whereas in a residency program that isn't great you are doing a fellowship because you aren't comfortable with surgery. Also better programs tend to have more well known attendings and if you ever plan to get involved in the profession, these relationships you formed with your attendings and also your affiliation with your alumni will help you greatly.

    Disclaimer: I'm only a first year resident so I dont have any experience with looking for a job. I've heard of residents getting really high paying jobs and they didn't graduate from a "high powered" program and I've heard of residents not getting the best salaries and they graduated from these "high powered" programs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017 at 4:30 PM
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  4. AttackNME

    AttackNME Podiatrist 10+ Year Member

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    Podiatrist
    1. What exactly defines a "good residency"?
    One that trains you for what you want to do

    2. Does a good residency translate to a higher paying job?
    No, you have to hustle and do things beyond what the residency offers you matter where you go to get what you want, including making your own connections for jobs, nothing is handed to you

    3. Does a bad residency prevent you from anything in your own private practice
    No, think of it this way, our predecessors graduated with 1-2 year residencies, some have gone on to lucrative practices, some to join orthopedic groups, your education doesn’t stop with residency, if you continue learning as an attending you can do anything

    4. For the students who fail classes in podiatry school, do they still get residencies? Ive met a few and don't really understand if the minimum GPA is around 2.5 for the lowest residencies, how are they going to manage, is there a loophole to this?
    Students who fail have certain circumstances for that failure, and it does not define them for the rest of their lives. If every screw-up doesn’t get a second chance, imagine all of the Fortune 500 companies that would not exist today.

    5. Do people at the average residencies (3.0 tier) still have the same opportunities as people at the high residencies. I strongly believe in effort and reward. If someone puts a ton of effort into school and works hard to be the top of their class hopefully they see some benefit compared to the guy who chilled all day and passed classes. However based on the one podiatrist I shadowed, he went to the Fairfax residency , his salary was pretty low (170 k in a long-term established private practice in the silicon valley) with little competition for miles, and he was also struggling and thinking of selling his practice to another podiatrist about 15 miles south

    You are absolutely correct, effort will always be rewarded, maybe not immediately but eventually. Keep your A game on at all times, before, during, AND after residency and you will be successful. Do what you can to find and get the best residency you can, then maximize every resource out of that program.
     
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  5. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    So based on this information (which coincides with one of our school's DPM's belief that a bad residency just means less exposure), what would motivate someone to get a 4.0 vs like a 3.0 in pod school? If ultimately our career depends on our business skills and interpersonal skills more than grades in preclinical years, I am finding difficulty in pushing myself to earn A's in anatomy and embryology vs just relaxing and taking a B.
     
  6. dorsiflexor

    dorsiflexor

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    Being lazy during pod school will directly translate to being lazy on clerkships, residency and practice....
     
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  7. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Sometimes its better to lay back and enjoy the finer things in life...
    No, I just dont want to study for embryology anymore and tell myself a C in that class will be fine.
     
  8. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    When you are the top of you class you have more options on where you can potentially land for residency, it just opens more doors for you. It's the concept of not limiting your opportunities. Wouldn't you rather be sought after and be able to choose where you want to go versus not even being considered for a program cause your grades aren't great?

    I know some students who honestly didn't really care where they went for residency and they weren't planning to do a lot of rearfoot procedures in practice. So in school they didn't try their hardest. I would rather be trained in everything and choose to not do certain procedures because I don't feel like it versus not knowing how to do it.

    I think it's important to do your best so you can choose what you do with your life and not be forced into something just cause of something like grades.

    I would think that you choose podiatry for more than just making money. It's not the smartest financial decision to do 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of podiatry and then a 3 year residency with all your debt. There are plenty of other careers you could have chosen to make money. So I would hope that you would try to get into the best residency possible and to be as well trained as possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017 at 6:56 PM
  9. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    I second this. In general people that were lazy during their pre-clinical years don't all of a sudden find this inspiration to work hard during the clinical years.
     
  10. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Well I will admit I am lazy when it comes to things I don't care about. When I have DPM's and common sense telling me that I wont need to know about the hepatoduodenal ligament when I am out in the field, why bother pouring my heart and soul into learning about it? As of now I havent had a problem pulling off B's with studying 2-3 hours a day and playing video games the rest of the day but Im trying to find out a reason to step up my game and aim for A's.

    My goal has always been to to take what ever I learn during school here and just pull out more patents but well see, at the moment I am looking into other more lucrative careers as well.

    I already know from my hand coordination in anatomy lab I would be a garbage surgeon anyway.
     
  11. Weirdy

    Weirdy

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    A few questions for self reflection:

    1) Where do your passions lay? Do any of these coincide with podiatry?
    2) If you are content with getting Bs, what other lucrative ventures can you pour your energy into?

    I am not doing this to put you down. I am doing this because I have siblings who are similar to you. They have outstanding brain power and achieve extremely high grades easily. However, their downfall was not knowing what sparked their motivation, passion, and fulfillment in life.

    I will not blame you for putting in a bit less effort to enjoy other things in life. But it sucks when I see people like you, who have so much potential and brain power, to be top of the class but choose not to because they are lost.

    It is ok to choose to be average. My hope for you is that you use the most of what you are given and really push it. Don't rest on your laurels, even if your passion is not 100% in podiatry. It is a waste of talent.
     
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  12. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    1) My career options are some kind of doctor, an engineer (mechanical/ Computer), and IB banking. I am not a fan of desk jobs, based on what other students at my school say, each year progressively moves away from the textbooks and more into clinic. I shadowed mostly MD's and DO's, only one podiatrist (experience listed above), all of those careers listed above. Podiatry leaves alot of room for new medical devices from my understanding because of the limited number of professionals in the field.
    2) Ive been spending about 3 hours a day managing, penny /day trading with a Roth IRA and that seems to be a better use of my time honestly.

    Like I said, if the lowest end gpas for residencies are around 2.5 I just dont see why I should aim for straight A's.
     
  13. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    You do you. No sweat off anyone's back what you decide
     
  14. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    LOL. That's probably the laziest thing I have read on SDN. You do know that you're in medicine and in a specialty field, right?
    IMO, the last thing any field of medicine need is a lack of passion. Keep aiming for the 2.5 and hope everything related to Pod residency stays the same by 2021.
     
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  15. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Getting straight B's with a few scattered A's averages out to a 3.0 or slightly higher. Based on what Ive read, being at a 3.2 'ish keeps almost every door open as would a 4.0.
     
  16. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    Like I said not everyone cares about getting into a high powered residency. If you don't then that's fine. All your doors will not be open based on GPA. I would say if you are in the top 10-25% of your class then all your doors will be basically open.
     
  17. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    If you don't really see any reasons to get an A, then my friend I don't think there is anybody that can convince you otherwise.
     
  18. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    Youd do better at day trading or a job like that. Your history on this forum shows a major lack of social skills. With podiatry being such a social job where a lot of your success is based on relationships formed with colleagues and patients, I agree that your time is better suited with penny day trading or a job with less social interaction
     
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  19. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    The way I present my self on a forum doesn't really translate to real life. There are only a few places I can ask questions like Why am I learning this or why am I trying so hard for this without upsetting professors. Even then, in preclinical years atleast what I say has more or less of an impact on anything since your grades are pretty much exam based.
    I'm not the only one who thinks this way, in fact if anything, its upper class men who have positioned my thoughts to think embryology is mostly useless towards becoming a podiatrist, or just scoring a 3.0 GPA is good enough for residencies.
    Its not hard to put on a fake smile and fake personality and butt kiss your way through patient consultations and rotations, but yeah as someone who strongly believes in marginal cost I do ask what is the benefit to someone working 60 hours a week to get a 4.0 vs someone working 20 hours a week to get a 3.0, no one has really answered that question
     
  20. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Well whats the benefit to this so called high powered residency? Im just analyzing this based on face value of what SDN, professors, and students tell me.
    I analogy this straight to Pod school admissions, I enjoyed undergrad, went out a lot, had my free time, and got into pretty much every pod school, meanwhile I have a friend who worked his butt off, studied really hard, had little free time, and sits next to me in class in pod school.
    I dont want the same thing to repeat in pod school, I work my butt off, sacrifice every ounce of sleep, and end up in the same residency as someone who half assed their way thru.
     
  21. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    I am not sure what answer you were expecting if you question is that "if I should half as* my way through Pod residency".

    And, your question was answered. You can get a 3.0 and probably match but, as stated above, unlike other healthcare fields, in podiatry you have to go above-beyond the regular title of a resident or a student. Just because you are doing ok now in the first term does not mean you will do the same come Jan or 2nd year and so on. Everyone here should aim for an A, irrespective of the match or not, because you will be a doctor one day and you will be treating real patients, who can sue you, so you better know your shi* inside out. And chances are that if you're just aiming for a B then you will be missing out on pertinent info.

    I mean if more people turned out to be like you and the way you think then why even bother going to a Pod school? Why not just get one of those online degrees and call your self a "doctor".
     
  22. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Can you link me to the online med schools? I havent seen any.
    The average exam scores at my school are hovering around the high C range. According to your information, which is wrong, almost 50% of the class is going to go unemployed
     
  23. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    I just realized that you're the same person who went to a Carribean medical school and then wanted to finish Podiatry, only to start at DO program..lol

    :whoa::whoa:

    Yeah, I'm done here, as I have wasted my time.
     
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  24. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    Because that "benefit" is not a fixed variable. It changes for everybody. So coming onto a forum and asking people what the benefit is makes no sense. They are going to give you their personal reasons. However, that doesnt answer your question because only you can. Everyone is different so only you can decide what the benefit is or if there even is one. The facts are this: skirting by with a 2.5 and 3.0 GPA will get you into a residency and get you a job as a podiatrist. It might not be a top notch one, but itll do. So if that is what you want then go for it. However, I will say that your thinking and the type of student youre considering to be, is everything that is wrong with the podiatric profession. Until schools screen better, its going to always be an uphill battle for the rest of us trying to make up for the bad reputation others give the field.
     
  25. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Basically what youve said here, is someone with a 4.0 is going to be a podiatrist and someone with a 3.0 is going to be a podiatrist. Im not really aiming for a 2.5 as thats too low for self esteem standards.
    Meanwhile the resident above says good residencies can generate bad surgeons meanwhile not so great residencies create poor surgeons. I am pretty average among my peers, probably slightly higher than average in some classes like biochem.
    Saying this is whats wrong with the profession indicates you are trash talking everyone below me. Essentially all of those C students according to you are garbage, and will be horrible podiatrists and give it a bad reputation even though they are trying.
    The average GPA and MCAT for podiatry is incredibly low. 497 and somewhere around 3.2'ish? How can you everyone in that population to just pull off straight A's? These are rational questions
     
  26. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    Not interested in having an ongoing convo with you
     
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  27. feet2017

    feet2017 5+ Year Member

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    My final thoughts on this matter are that I always try my best in order to be best podiatrist possible. I think it's important to try and be the best podiatrist you can be or else you are doing a disservice to your future patients. To me trying my best means trying my best to get A's, getting into the best residency possible, get the best training I can, and then treat my patients to my best capabilites. Going to the best residency I can will give me more knowledge and skills to be the best podiatrist possible. Whether I choose to apply all this knowledge and skills in the future will be my decision. That is my reasoning for going to a "high powered" residency and this is just my personal philosophy.
     
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  28. Podstar

    Podstar Red Sox WS 2018 Gold Donor

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    The way I look at school is how I looked at playing sports when I was growing up. The only thing worse than losing a game to me was going out there and knowing I did not give my best effort to help the team win. Now I still may have played terrible, but if I gave my best effort and my best attitude throughout then I could go home with a peace of mind. In school if I come out of an exam and know I could have done better if I had put more effort into studying it would bug the hell out of me because I know I am not living up to my full potential due to factors that are under my control. Think of a goal you had that you wanted to achieve more than anything in the world. Did you sit back and half pursue it or did you go after it with everything you had? From the way you describe your thinking, in my opinion, it does not seem like the drive and passion for this career is there for you. I would suggest really thinking about whether this is something you want to do for the next 30+ years of your life before you get in too deep.
     
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  29. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Im still deciding this and weighing out my options hence the original post.
    From the prospects it seems like even the 4.0 student isnt likely to make much more than 300 k, with 200-250 being more reasonable, an income that can be easily attained with 2-3 years in the investment banking pathway yet having greater exit potential.
    I am a minimalist and an from what I hear, if half assing my way thru school can land a so-so residency and still have the same title as the guy with the 4.0 while affording time to pursue other things such as public trading, then that's the way to go.
     
  30. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    Duuuuuude, tough luck for your teams this month.. First Red Sox losing and now Zeke!
     
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  31. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    There are surgical pods that make in the upper brackets of 400k+. They are prolly some of the more hardworking pods out there.

    Everyone always turns to investment banking as this big money maker, or computer science. You do know those people work crazy hours, right? And not everyone becomes a successful investment banker. That's what I don't understand about everyone who says "oh don't do medicine for the money, go computer science". As if those jobs are just lined up for the taking and are paying 100k+. Have you worked a real 9-5 job? I did, with a college degree, and I had a second job and I was barely clearing 20k+/year. The real world sucks. Taxes suck. It all sucks. Podiatry gives you actual skills that no other place, save MD and DO school, can give you.

    The people in investment banking that make the big bucks aren't playing video games. They are working 70-80 hours/week. And what happens if the company goes under? Same with computer engineering. Outsource to India?

    Pray to whatever Deity you believe in and thank your lucky stars that you are in a school that gives you a virtually gaurenteed opportunity to clear 6 figures that gives you a real profession with marketable skills, especially considering your carribean past.

     
  32. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    The number of pods making 400 k + is very limited, and more of it is business related than just hard work. According to this forum the hardest working / highest gpa/ longest hour pods are the kaiser guys making 200-300 k.
    Those jobs are infact, lined up for you. I wonder what kind of grocery bagging job you must have had to make 20 k + a year. Frankly anyone with a degree beyond under water basketweaving will clear that income. I did data entry as a bio engineer and made about 70 k a year working 30-40 hours a week. There are walmart workers who dropped out of high school making more than you.
    What if your company goes under? You change careers, its not as difficult as you make it sound. Get a new job. You are literally telling these things to the child of a silicon valley fortune 500 director.
    My high school teachers are making the same as some podiatrists which makes me second guess the profession let alone the availability of positions to continue.
     
  33. Prehealth1011

    Prehealth1011

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    GPA and class-rank is a much bigger deal in the Podiatry world than in the MD/DO world. You can finish in top of the class and still not get a residency. That's why no one here will recommend you to slack off.
     
  34. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Legitimate question here:
    Why did the top student not get a residency?
    Im guessing one of three things 1) didnt apply broadly at all 2) made a major mistake during rotations/externships 3) couldn't hide his inner dingus on rotations
     
  35. Robert De Niro

    Robert De Niro 5+ Year Member

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    IMG_2644.GIF

    Me when I'm reading this thread....
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 9:54 AM
  36. Prehealth1011

    Prehealth1011

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    Whatever the reason may be, i wouldn't half-a$$ my way through Podiatry school. The boards are pass/fail and the objective data that the program directors use is your class rank/GPA. Not getting a residency is a much worse outcome for a pod graduate compared to a MD/DO. I would take every measure possible to not let it happen.
     
  37. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    No, I was making above minimum wage and barely scrapped by on 20k. Remember, is still paid taxes too.

    My experience isn't uncommon. I didn't graduate with a stem degree, but people I took my prerecs with who got their bio degree are making somewhere in the 30-32k world, and that's with a supposed stem degree.

    The ones who make the most are the accountants I graduated with. Both are making in the 50-55k range before taxes.

    If you are a child of a Fortune 500 XYZ, go have daddy get you a new job, stop wasting your time in pod school or any type of Med/pharm/dental school.

    Silicon Valley 70k is diffent than Midwestern and Southern 70k. I assume that you lived in Cali? Yeah, teachers are way overpaid there. Teachers in middle America make around 35k/year pre tax, nowhere near pod level. Pods in middle America make around 150-200k.

     
  38. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Taxes are incredibly low on salaries below 40 K. If you make 30 k a year you still keep 24 k.
    Made more than minimum wage and only kept 24 k? Sorry dude that's your fault. Sounds like you didnt work enough hours.
    Frankly you couldve skipped college and made more money as a police officer, fire fighter, phlebotomist, mechanic, truck driver , etc etc.
    Idk what drove you to go to college and chose what ever career you did.
    Same with your accountant friends, and bio degree major. It sounds like you listen too much to what other people tell you. Bio may be "science" but it isn't really STEM.
    There isnt much you can do with your biology classes as an undergrad besides be a lab technician, teacher, or like wise.
    There is nothing stopping you or your friends from moving to places like California, New york, Boston, or such, unless youre unqualified which is what it sounds like unfortunately.

    The reason Im in a medical school program is so I can use my own ideas while generating capital to develop new medical devices and cash out on that. I have enough self esteem to build my own career, its just that podiatry may not be what interests me enough to continue. Time will tell.
     
  39. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    Okay, Ill give it to you, Ill work my ass off in podiatry school and get a 4.0 from here on out.
    And so will the rest of my peers who cant do so.
    What happens to the people who are in the bottom 50% of the class?

    Ill answer that question for you based on one of our podiatry moderators answer: As the bottom 1/3 of their class they still get a residency and still make in excess of 180k.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 11:48 AM
  40. Prehealth1011

    Prehealth1011

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    Can direct me to the post where this was said?
     
  41. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    it was in a pm, so out of respect for them, no.
     
  42. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    I worked 50+ hour weeks every week.

    That's just how bad the economy was when I was working.

    You can be a biomedical engineer without becoming a doctor. It sounds like there is where ur passion lies.


     
  43. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    Lol same. Some really entertaining exchanges going on here
     
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  44. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    Dude welcome back! Hope the time away and self discovery was a success
     
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  45. VolibearMain

    VolibearMain Probationary Status

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    I appreciate your attempts to offer career advice but based on your history why would I take advice from someone who is not a bioengineer and not a podiatry student?
    Bioengineering, while it stands above biology majors in the ranking ladder and they are slightly more functional in the career field still has the cons of
    1) less job opportunities 2) lower salaries 3) higher chance of lay-offs. The reason I picked that major is to be able to get into medical school while having a reasonable chance of being able to enter other programs such as an MS in computer engineering or mechanical, should medicine go south.
    I am considering those options as I have umpteen friends who are clearing 100 K with just an undergrad and many earning close to 200 at major companies. wit engineering the sky is truly the limit as you see the top billionaires are not doctors, not even businessmen/finance related, but engineers. One or two good ideas with a patent and royalties can spawn into an early retirement which is not common.

    At the same time podiatry is an unexplored field with limited engineers, the few that Ive met dont give a damn about research or their major, leaving more space for me to produce new inventions or devices. I dont require a top notch residency to do so, just the degree and what ever basic knowledge I can acquire in rotations about ailments of the foot.
     
  46. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

    469
    322
    Mar 5, 2016
    Thanks, Smurfey! I'll open a thread on my experiences when the time comes hehe...

    And yeah, the time off certainly helped put things into perspective. Life has been really kind to me and I think it's only just the beginning. I'll be share some of my experiences when the times comes (hopefully it helps other people too).
     
    Weirdy and smurfeyD like this.

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