Quitting job...

[t-funk]

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I belong to a yahoo group called 'Natural Late Talkers', but they are very much against getting diagnoses and they don't trust the school system, in general, whereas I believe getting a diagnosis and using the school system basically saved my son and I loved every special ed teacher he had. Basically there is a guy Dr Camarata at Vanderbilt who has studied these behaviors for a long time. Meg, have you ever heard of Thomas Sowell and his book, Late Talking Children and then the Einstein Syndrome? Anyway, there has been a lot of data collected stating that Late Talkers are oftentimes children of highly analytical minds such as scientists and mathematicians and musicians and often become highly analytical themselves. Many kids start talking at 4 or 5 but some never do. I just wish there was more research going into this field so we could help these kids.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

I'm sure Meg will chime in soon, but one of the things you look for as a doctor is "milestones". By age 2 a child should have a 250 word vocabulary and speak in two word sentences according to many "experts". By age 3 they should speak in complete sentences. That is considered "normal". Yet, not every child will fit completely into these categories. Development is an incredibly interesting field--- if you can deal with the parents 😀.

Are solving development issues specifically "under the reign" - so to speak, of pediatricians?
Or are there other fields also involved in it? psychiatry? neurology? I guess what I am asking is , is there a field specific to doctors who are devoted to solving developmental problems in children?

 

[Beau Geste]

I belong to a yahoo group called 'Natural Late Talkers', but they are very much against getting diagnoses and they don't trust the school system, in general, whereas I believe getting a diagnosis and using the school system basically saved my son and I loved every special ed teacher he had. Basically there is a guy Dr Camarata at Vanderbilt who has studied these behaviors for a long time. Meg, have you ever heard of Thomas Sowell and his book, Late Talking Children and then the Einstein Syndrome? Anyway, there has been a lot of data collected stating that Late Talkers are oftentimes children of highly analytical minds such as scientists and mathematicians and musicians and often become highly analytical themselves. Many kids start talking at 4 or 5 but some never do. I just wish there was more research going into this field so we could help these kids.

Yeah, I've heard of that guy. It kinda fits in with children who have Asperger's. They are usually classified as late talkers as well.

 

[scpod]

One of the interesting things to me is that children in bilingual households tend to speak later....but they also tend to have higher IQs. I've heard it''s something about being able to separate two languages that are constructed grammatically different. But apparently after that, third, forth and fifth, etc. languages are very easy. I just wish it was so easy for an old guy like me 🙂.

 

[Beau Geste]

I'm sure Meg will chime in soon, but one of the things you look for as a doctor is "milestones". By age 2 a child should have a 250 word vocabulary and speak in two word sentences according to many "experts". By age 3 they should speak in complete sentences. That is considered "normal". Yet, not every child will fit completely into these categories. Development is an incredibly interesting field--- if you can deal with the parents 😀.

well, current research has 2-year olds saying over 300 words at the 50th percentile and it just goes up from there. Sentences at 4 words at 2 and over 8 words at 3.

But it's a good estimate to say 250/2-3 words at 2.

LOL I was writing up assessment reports tonite and just happened to have this info handy (MacArthur/Bates Communicative Developmental Inventory, and Rhea Paul is a good researcher as well).

 

[t-funk]

I'm sure Meg will chime in soon, but one of the things you look for as a doctor is "milestones". By age 2 a child should have a 250 word vocabulary and speak in two word sentences according to many "experts". By age 3 they should speak in complete sentences. That is considered "normal". Yet, not every child will fit completely into these categories. Development is an incredibly interesting field--- if you can deal with the parents 😀.

Yeah, my son didn't start talking in 2-word sentences until about 4 1/2 and then by about his 5th b-day, he was talking in pretty complete sentences, albeit with poor grammar. It's crazy how fast they can speed up.

I definately agree with you, SCPOD, on the parent thing. I'm pretty sure I haven't always been the easiest to deal with, but I got crap taken care of. You have to learn to be pushy and vocal if you want your child to get help.

 

[Beau Geste]

One of the interesting things to me is that children in bilingual households tend to speak later....but they also tend to have higher IQs. I've heard it''s something about being able to separate two languages that are constructed grammatically different. But apparently after that, third, forth and fifth, etc. languages are very easy. I just wish it was so easy for an old guy like me 🙂.

There is conflicting research on this.

 

[Beau Geste]

Are solving development issues specifically "under the reign" - so to speak, of pediatricians?
Or are there other fields also involved in it? psychiatry? neurology? I guess what I am asking is , is there a field specific to doctors who are devoted to solving developmental problems in children?

Usually "solving" the issues is a research realm over clinical. Speech-language pathologists and psychologists usually specialize in this, but a physician with a strong interest can as well.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

Scpod: "One of the interesting things to me is that children in bilingual households tend to speak later...."

wow scpod, do you have any scientific literature to base that on?

 

[scpod]

Are solving development issues specifically "under the reign" - so to speak, of pediatricians?
Or are there other fields also involved in it? psychiatry? neurology? I guess what I am asking is , is there a field specific to doctors who are devoted to solving developmental problems in children?

Pediatricians are supposed to be pretty up-to-date on this. They look heavily into "milestones". We spend a lot of time on it in the pediatrics part of our physical exam class, but nationwide there are a lot of kids who will only see a family practicioner. So, everyone has to have some basic knowledge. However, everyone specializes these days and they refer patients to other specialists in larger cities. Yet, you have to look at the state of healthcare in America to understand the reality. I don't think a lot of insurance companies are going to pay for adequate treatment sometimes.

 

[t-funk]

When my son started having problems, my pediatrician referred me directly to the school system, a pediatric neurologist, and a pediatric psychologist. My pediatrician wanted nothing to do with it. The school system immediately started testing and a speech pathologist and special ed teacher were immediately assigned to him, all before his second b-day. (Just as a side note, when his IQ was tested, he scored a 65. It was just redone at 125.)

 

[Saregamapadanis]

Just as a side note, when his IQ was tested, he scored a 65. It was just redone at 125.

Hmm, this kind of makes you wonder how they actually make these IQ tests, whether they are accurate or whether they place too much emphasis on language/reading.

 

[scpod]

wow scpod, do you have any scientific literature to base that on?

Yeah, but don't make me look it up now 🙂. Like Meg pointed out, there are probably studies that contradict it, but I wrote a few papers in undergrad on it. There's plenty of research to convince some people 🙂; not enough for others😡.

 

[Beau Geste]

Scpod: "One of the interesting things to me is that children in bilingual households tend to speak later...."

wow scpod, do you have any scientific literature to base that on?

There is research on this for sure, but there is also research that contradicts this.

There are a lot of factors that come into play:

Assessment tool issues, Administration of assessment issues, Evaluator issues, all the way to speaker variation and cultural differences.

 

[t-funk]

Hmm, this kind of makes you wonder how they actually make these IQ tests, whether they are accurate or whether they place too much emphasis on language/reading.

I totally agree.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

Yeah, but don't make me look it up now 🙂. Like Meg pointed out, there are probably studies that contradict it, but I wrote a few papers in undergrad on it. There's plenty of research to convince some people 🙂; not enough for others😡.

Thats alright, bringing this topic itself was help enough. thanks, you gave me something productive to do, I will look it up on my own. 👍

 

[Beau Geste]

I totally agree.

Most SLPs don't put much stock in IQ tests. We have our own tests to torture people with

 

[Beau Geste]

Thats alright, bringing this topic itself was help enough. thanks, you gave me something productive to do, I will look it up on my own. 👍

try "bilingual normal language development" or sthg along those lines.

Like scpod, I studied it ad nauseum in grad school, and updated during continuing ed courses, but it's somewhere in the jungle that is my office and frankly, I'm too tired to find it 😳

 

[Saregamapadanis]

try "bilingual normal language development" or sthg along those lines.

Thank you

 

[Beau Geste]

When my son started having problems, my pediatrician referred me directly to the school system, a pediatric neurologist, and a pediatric psychologist. My pediatrician wanted nothing to do with it. The school system immediately started testing and a speech pathologist and special ed teacher were immediately assigned to him, all before his second b-day. (Just as a side note, when his IQ was tested, he scored a 65. It was just redone at 125.)

Usually, how it works for EI, is the child needs to have a physician script/authorization and then can see the gamut of professionals. I think the school requires a script also here in the local school district judging from the IEPs I've sat in on. That's usually the level of involvement.

Except for one pediatric psych who told one family a kid I was seeing had autism, when he was ADHD. I could record up to 200 words per session during play with me if I had him strapped in a booster seat. Yet a peds psych who saw him for 10 mins was convinced he was autistic 🙄

THIS IS WHY I WANNA BE A DOC!!!!!!!! TO COUNTER THE ONES WHO SHOULDN'T BE DOCS!!!!!!

 

[Beau Geste]

Thank you

BTW, there is also argument that there is no "bilingualism" that one language takes L1 (primary) status and the other is L2 (secondary), no matter how close the percentages of each are spoken.

You'll find you may ask a simple question and have to branch into many different areas to get the the heart of what you want. Welcome to research!

 

[Beau Geste]

Ok you guys, I'm supposed to be off work this week!!!!!!!!! 😡

J/k.

I'm glad I could help.

Feel free to PM me if you ever have other SLP questions. Then you won't get in trouble for advice-asking or sthg 😉

 

[t-funk]

THIS IS WHY I WANNA BE A DOC!!!!!!!! TO COUNTER THE ONES WHO SHOULDN'T BE DOCS!!!!!!

ME TOO!!! Yay, I love it when people think like that!

Thank you.

 

[Beau Geste]

ME TOO!!! Yay, I love it when people think like that!

Thank you.

I haven't said that in my interviews (just in case someone takes offense) but that is definitely something that has motivated me since working with kids.

In my area, I can't believe the number of perfectly competent docs that save lives everyday but are clueless on developmental issues. Or are just out in left field. I'm not saying a doc has to know every bit of research, but like scpod said, milestones are good to grasp. I can't even count on 2 hands anymore how many times I've had to call a doc and explain what I do b/c they are clueless and "don't think this kid needs therapy. He's just a late talker." Except the kid flaps his hands and rocks in a corner. 🙄 Or other various language issues ARRGGGGHHHH!


kay, I'm 😴

 

[scpod]

Keep in mind that not only is this stuff interesting, it's pertinent. The NBOME tells you that 28% to 38% of your presenting patients (more than any other category) on part one of COMLEX involve "Symptoms & Disorders of Sensory Alternations". A good figure we've been told is that 10% to 15% of your questions are actually on Behavioral Science. Why? Well....apparently your patient mix in real life is going to include a lot of this. Yet, none of it is "exact". I guess the thing to remember is that the body of knowledge is always growing and you've got to keep on top of it.

 

[t-funk]

I haven't said that in my interviews (just in case someone takes offense) ...

Yeah, that might just be interview suicide.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

I haven't said that in my interviews (just in case someone takes offense)

Yea, they may plan to grill you after you say that. Nevertheless, it is good motivation to have. I am sure you will make an excellent physician.

 

[t-funk]

Keep in mind that not only is this stuff interesting, it's pertinent. The NBOME tells you that 28% to 38% of your presenting patients (more than any other category) on part one of COMLEX involve "Symptoms & Disorders of Sensory Alternations". A good figure we've been told is that 10% to 15% of your questions are actually on Behavioral Science. Why? Well....apparently your patient mix in real life is going to include a lot of this. Yet, none of it is "exact". I guess the thing to remember is that the body of knowledge is always growing and you've got to keep on top of it.

I think behavioral science is incredibly interesting. I know a lot of med students seem to hate it but it will probably be my favorite part.

 

[t-funk]

Yea, they may plan to grill you after you say that. Nevertheless, it is good motivation to have. I am sure you will make an excellent physician.

Thank you.

 

[EEL08]

Meg: I'm curious, why do you say 2? I have not had much time to research this, hence my question(and your expertise anyhow 🙂.

I just wonder when I hear numbers these days in the news: it was the norm to go to 41-42 weeks a decade ago for a delivery, but now, the average is 38-39 in the mass media thanks to the miracle of convenience, aka induction.

I know this is way off topic but I just wanted to point out that there are people who are still induced for good reasons. The ones who do it for convenience give the rest of us a bad name. 🙄

 

[scpod]

I know this is way off topic...

Nothing is "way off topic" on SDN these days .

 

[t-funk]

I know this is way off topic but I just wanted to point out that there are people who are still induced for good reasons. The ones who do it for convenience give the rest of us a bad name. 🙄

Being induced sucks. I was induced both times bc my body just seems to not want to go into labor. Is there such a thing as being oxytocin deficient?

 

[EEL08]

Being induced sucks. I was induced both times bc my body just seems to not want to go into labor. Is there such a thing as being oxytocin deficient?

I didn't mind the induction although my delivery with my son had more complications. How late did you go?

 

[t-funk]

42 weeks the first time and 41 the second with absolutely no signs of labor coming either time.

 

[EEL08]

42 weeks the first time and 41 the second with absolutely no signs of labor coming either time.

Wow! My brother-in-law actually works with a woman whose OB let her go a month past her due date! I don't know if she ended up going into labor on her own or was induced. I was induced at 38w4d and 38w6d due to gestational diabetes. Fun times!

 

[Beau Geste]

you guys are making the miracle of life sound scary 🙁

 

[EEL08]

you guys are making the miracle of life sound scary 🙁

Sorry! I actually really enjoyed having my babies. And I 😍 a good anesthesiologist!!

 

[Doc11Hopeful]

I am helping kids, just not in school. Birth-3. I see a lot of medically challenged kids with diagnoses such as CP, CF, Down's, Apraxia and Autism.

You're going to do us proud as docs meg and t-funk. I don't mind making a huge generalization when I say that people who are involved with children who have special needs are compassionate and caring people. If you work with them or have them in your family, it's impossible not to be a warm person.

My brother has Down's and he's made me who I am today. He's had tons of problems growing up so I've seen the entire spectrum of health professionals and they have all been great people. (Oh expect the Genetic Counselor who called him a 'mongoloid') Otherwise, everyone has been great and I think we need more health professionals like that! It's good to know we'll have future docs like you guys around!

 

[Beau Geste]

Mongoloid? O.M.G. Not only is it a rarely-accepted medical term (and I mean rare!!!!!!!!!), it's not even the based on Downs Syndrome, but a derogatory term for a human race!

DH11, I hope you stopped seeing this doc or at least told him how offensive that is.

That's like seeing a black patient and calling them the n-word!!!! Totally unacceptable!

 

[Doc11Hopeful]

Mongoloid? O.M.G. Not only is it a rarely-accepted medical term (and I mean rare!!!!!!!!!), it's not even the based on Downs Syndrome, but a derogatory term for a human race!

DH11, I hope you stopped seeing this doc or at least told him how offensive that is.

That's like seeing a black patient and calling them the n-word!!!! Totally unacceptable!

Oh yeah it was bad. They only saw that [b*tch] woman once. She came in hospital room to explain to my parents what Down Syndrome was because they had never heard of it. All they knew was that their new son was born with it. So they had to get used to the shock of it and someone explained it to them in incredibly hateful terms.

 

[Beau Geste]

What a jerk. I don't know how old your sibling is, but the Downs kids I've worked with have been incredibly happy babies and toddlers and always a joy to the parents.

 

[Doc11Hopeful]

What a jerk. I don't know how old your sibling is, but the Downs kids I've worked with have been incredibly happy babies and toddlers and always a joy to the parents.

Oh god don't get me started! He's 19 and has always been the light of my life. He has taught me more about life than I can describe. He's a huge factor in making my decision for medical school because I can't be apart from him for too long. Down's kids/adults are incredible people and I think people that work with people like them are incredible! Hence why you're going to be great meg!

 

[iamspartacus]

What a jerk. I don't know how old your sibling is, but the Downs kids I've worked with have been incredibly happy babies and toddlers and always a joy to the parents.

"beauty school drop out, go back to medical school."

 

[t-funk]

What a jerk. I don't know how old your sibling is, but the Downs kids I've worked with have been incredibly happy babies and toddlers and always a joy to the parents.

That's pretty horrible. I couldn't even imagine how a health care professional could say something like that. Unbelievable.

My son actually got very attached to a little girl with Down's Syndrome during pre-school. I was thinking about holding him back a year and when I told the preschool teacher this, they adamantly suggested I put him in kindergarten so that they could stay together. He was specifically put in the same kindergarten and 1st grade as her bc it seemed to be helping his progression. I don't think I will ever forget that little girl.

I think it's good to have some perspective in life and when it comes to being a physician so I'm sure you will make a great doctor too Doc11Hopeful.

 

[Doc11Hopeful]

My son actually got very attached to a little girl with Down's Syndrome during pre-school. I was thinking about holding him back a year and when I told the preschool teacher this, they adamantly suggested I put him in kindergarten so that they could stay together. He was specifically put in the same kindergarten and 1st grade as her bc it seemed to be helping his progression. I don't think I will ever forget that little girl.

That's such a great story! I love it! 🙂

I think it's good to have some perspective in life and when it comes to being a physician so I'm sure you will make a great doctor too Doc11Hopeful.

Thanks t!! 😀

 

[PatHealey]

That's such a great story! I love it! 🙂


From Something About Mary

Thanks t!! 😀

My real passion is
my hobby.

MARY
What's that?

HEALY
I work with ******s.

MARY
(taken aback)
I beg your pardon?

HEALY
You know...
(flaps lips with fingers)
...the guys who ride the short bus.

MARY
(put off)
Isn't that a little politically incorrect?

HEALY
The hell with that. No one's gonna tell me
who I can and can't work with.

MARY
No, I mean

HEALY
--There's this one kid, we call him Mongo
on account of he's a mongoloid. He got out
of his cage once and--
MARY
--He's in a cage?!

HEALY
Well it's more of an enclosure really.

MARY
They keep him confined?

HEALY
That's what I said, so I went out and got
him a leash you know, one of those
clothesline runners for the backyard. He's
got plenty of room out there to dig. The
kid's really blossomed. Now I can take him
to ball games, movies--you know, happy
stuff.

MARY
That sounds like fun.

HEALY
Yeah, it's fun for them, but it's heaven
for me.
(getting emotional)
Those goofy bastards are just about the
best thing I have in this crazy old world.
(checks watch)

There's Something About Mary

Screenplay by

Ed Decter & John J. Strauss

and

Peter Farrelly & Bobby Farrelly

Story by Ed Decter & John J. Strauss

 

[IUgrad]

Did you create a Pat Healey account just to paste this in?? yikes...

 

[Doc11Hopeful]

Heeeeeeeeeey that's not my quote! You sure are slick laffertydaniel/iamspartacus/shooterMcGavin/PatHealey! Oh you.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

Heeeeeeeeeey that's not my quote! You sure are slick laffertydaniel/iamspartacus/shooterMcGavin/PatHealey! Oh you.

I think this guy is also "PCOMDO" and "DOgenius", it is ridiculous why some people just take on accounts to post insensitive garbage sometimes.

 

[IUgrad]

I think this guy is also "PCOMDO" and "DOgenius", it is ridiculous why some people just take on accounts to post insensitive garbage sometimes.

Yeah, I know. 👎