I'm an IMG interested in Radiology. Could you send me comments about good radiology residency programs.Thank you very much.
radiology residency
- Thread starter gino
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
I hope I do not sound to mean, but as an IMG you are not going to get any real good radiology programs. You will be extremely lucky to even get any radiology program. This year the US senior unmatched rate in Radiology will likely be around 20%. So even the programs that did not fill in the match will likely take those people prior to accepting an IMG.
That said, any of the University based Radiology programs in the US will be good programs. Top named schools such as Stanford, Mass General, Mayo Clinic will have outstanding programs. Programs that have strong interventional programs will also be in strong demand.
Good luck, hope this helps some.
------------------
Rob
http://views.vcu.edu/medimf/rob/greatpumpkin.shtml
That said, any of the University based Radiology programs in the US will be good programs. Top named schools such as Stanford, Mass General, Mayo Clinic will have outstanding programs. Programs that have strong interventional programs will also be in strong demand.
Good luck, hope this helps some.
------------------
Rob
http://views.vcu.edu/medimf/rob/greatpumpkin.shtml
Thank you very much for your answer. I know it will be very difficult to get in a university based program. I was last year in NYC doing elective in a top named school in radiology. I hope it will help. Where did you get the information about the 20% unmatched applicants?
Thanks
gino
Thanks
gino
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
Right now it is just a guess, based on my class and what the rate was last year(14.1%). We will get those statistics later. Along, with how many IMGs matched etc.
Your rotation will help. Good luck.
Your rotation will help. Good luck.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2001
- Messages
- 561
- Reaction score
- 0
GreatPumpkin,
I don't understand. I thought kimberlicox was an IMG who just matched to Penn's surgery program. Perhaps she's just humble, but she didn't act as if she were overcoming great obstacles. Did you over come great obstacles, kimberli?
--Kris
I don't understand. I thought kimberlicox was an IMG who just matched to Penn's surgery program. Perhaps she's just humble, but she didn't act as if she were overcoming great obstacles. Did you over come great obstacles, kimberli?
--Kris
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
General Surgery US Senior unmatched rate 7.3% last year. That pretty much explains it.
I would not know if Kimberli is an IMG. But if so, to her advantage she is a US citizen FMG. That is also an advantage over a non-US citizen FMG.
I am not saying it will be impossible, just very very very hard. Some FMG probably matched in Derm. as well which is likely the most competitive specialty. But, only a handful and these would be "superstar" FMGs.
Maybe you are a "superstar", if so that is wonderful. You deserve to get a top residency. If not I am just saying you need to be realistic and careful when you fill out your match list.
Consider Path. right now much more FMG friendly.
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 12, 2001).]
I would not know if Kimberli is an IMG. But if so, to her advantage she is a US citizen FMG. That is also an advantage over a non-US citizen FMG.
I am not saying it will be impossible, just very very very hard. Some FMG probably matched in Derm. as well which is likely the most competitive specialty. But, only a handful and these would be "superstar" FMGs.
Maybe you are a "superstar", if so that is wonderful. You deserve to get a top residency. If not I am just saying you need to be realistic and careful when you fill out your match list.
Consider Path. right now much more FMG friendly.
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 12, 2001).]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
Why yes, Virignia, Kimberli is an IMG. I think my greatest obstacle in getting a US categorical surgery position was my average USMLE Step 1, but it was perhaps balanced out by publications, good grades, letters and a personal statement that made people want to meet me (or so I was told at several programs). I have also been told that my Dean's letter mentioned some pretty positive things about me.
I don't consider myself a superstar but just in the right place at the right time - fewer applications to surgery programs this year, higher % of IMGs matching and lower % of unmatched applicants.
I do think the issue is to complicated to come down to just the factor of IMG or not. However, I feel fairly strongly that being a US citizen helps an applicant. After overhearing or being told outright, I can see that numerous programs simply prefer US citizens either because of the paperwork involved in Visas, cultural or language barriers or simply wanting to favor "their own".
At any rate Gino, it is difficult to advise you regarding your chances of getting a Radiology position in the US. Had you written here 3 years ago we'd say - "hey, take your pick!" but the market place for Diag Rad has shot up considerably. Good USMLE scores, US clinical experience, letters from US faculty and research all help in obtaining an elusive residency.
I don't consider myself a superstar but just in the right place at the right time - fewer applications to surgery programs this year, higher % of IMGs matching and lower % of unmatched applicants.
I do think the issue is to complicated to come down to just the factor of IMG or not. However, I feel fairly strongly that being a US citizen helps an applicant. After overhearing or being told outright, I can see that numerous programs simply prefer US citizens either because of the paperwork involved in Visas, cultural or language barriers or simply wanting to favor "their own".
At any rate Gino, it is difficult to advise you regarding your chances of getting a Radiology position in the US. Had you written here 3 years ago we'd say - "hey, take your pick!" but the market place for Diag Rad has shot up considerably. Good USMLE scores, US clinical experience, letters from US faculty and research all help in obtaining an elusive residency.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
Kimberli "SUPERSTAR"
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 13, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 13, 2001).]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by GreatPumpkin:
Kimberli "SUPERSTAR"
[This message has been edited by GreatPumpkin (edited April 13, 2001).]•
WOO-HOO! Thanks (I *think*) Great Pumpkin. You're much too kind.
What was the name of this character BTW? Something stereotypically Catholic wasn't it - ie, Mary Margaret O'Reilly?
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
Mary Katherine Gallagher
A
ana
Hi, Gino.
The good radiology programs are the ones you can get into and you will be happy. Given the competitiveness of the field in recent years, don't be picky until you have the option (ie, apply to as many places you can afford to interview at and then rank them all in order of your personal preferences).
I matched in Radiology this year. It is very tough, and the stats you are hearing about are probably accurate (approx. 20-25% ummatched rate for US MDs and 50% unmatched rate for US DOs and IMGs). However, this being said, let me give you some tips.
1. Never, never, never listen to people who tell you not to follow your dream. It will be much harder for you to match because you are an IMG (it will be even worse if you are a non-U.S. citizen IMG), but you can still do it.
2. Board scores are more important now then ever. Do whatever you have to do to get them up. Step I should be >220 to get you into some good programs. You can still get some interviews with less if you have good letters and application package, but it will be at lesser institutions in less desireable places. If you did not do that well on step I, take step II early enough for consideration by residency programs and make sure you kick booty on it.
3. Get letters from radiologists. Those letters should be of the highest caliber. Do more than one externship if you have to.
4. Do research and work your buns off. It doesn't matter what the topic is. Better if it is in radiology, but just do something to show your academic abilities and desire to work hard.
5. If you don't get into a categorical position, don't settle for another residency unless you try one more time. That is, go ahead and do your preliminary year and keep an eye out for spots that open up (they do sporadically, you just have to keep your eyes and ears open for them). Make sure you communicate your interest to radiology programs and keep in touch -- you want to be the first person they think of if/when that spot does open up.
6. Most of all, practice interviewing and being yourself. Radiologists are easy going types, and they like to see people who are hard working, intellecutual, technically minded, and yet know how to have a life (hey, those are some of the reason's they picked radiology, right?).
Best wishes.
[This message has been edited by ana (edited April 25, 2001).]
The good radiology programs are the ones you can get into and you will be happy. Given the competitiveness of the field in recent years, don't be picky until you have the option (ie, apply to as many places you can afford to interview at and then rank them all in order of your personal preferences).
I matched in Radiology this year. It is very tough, and the stats you are hearing about are probably accurate (approx. 20-25% ummatched rate for US MDs and 50% unmatched rate for US DOs and IMGs). However, this being said, let me give you some tips.
1. Never, never, never listen to people who tell you not to follow your dream. It will be much harder for you to match because you are an IMG (it will be even worse if you are a non-U.S. citizen IMG), but you can still do it.
2. Board scores are more important now then ever. Do whatever you have to do to get them up. Step I should be >220 to get you into some good programs. You can still get some interviews with less if you have good letters and application package, but it will be at lesser institutions in less desireable places. If you did not do that well on step I, take step II early enough for consideration by residency programs and make sure you kick booty on it.
3. Get letters from radiologists. Those letters should be of the highest caliber. Do more than one externship if you have to.
4. Do research and work your buns off. It doesn't matter what the topic is. Better if it is in radiology, but just do something to show your academic abilities and desire to work hard.
5. If you don't get into a categorical position, don't settle for another residency unless you try one more time. That is, go ahead and do your preliminary year and keep an eye out for spots that open up (they do sporadically, you just have to keep your eyes and ears open for them). Make sure you communicate your interest to radiology programs and keep in touch -- you want to be the first person they think of if/when that spot does open up.
6. Most of all, practice interviewing and being yourself. Radiologists are easy going types, and they like to see people who are hard working, intellecutual, technically minded, and yet know how to have a life (hey, those are some of the reason's they picked radiology, right?).
Best wishes.
[This message has been edited by ana (edited April 25, 2001).]
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
international med grad
B
baylor21
Just curious,
Is radiology the highest unmatched rate?
About what percent of US MDs are not matched in any program at all?
------------------
"There is nothing more powerful on this Earth as a man who has nothing to lose. It does not take ten such men to change the world--one will do." Elijah Mohammed
Is radiology the highest unmatched rate?
About what percent of US MDs are not matched in any program at all?
------------------
"There is nothing more powerful on this Earth as a man who has nothing to lose. It does not take ten such men to change the world--one will do." Elijah Mohammed
A
ana
baylor, it's hard to say which has highest unmatched rate. The NRMP is still crunching the numbers, so there is no official tally. The #s I give are based on scuttlebutt amongst program directors as communicated to me by my own, so take it with a grain of salt
.
also, sometimes these percentages are not meaningful between different specialties (as they might be for the same specialty between different years). Some residencies are just self-selecting (for example, people who are interested in neurosurgery probably won't even bother to apply unless they are at the top of their classes, which may explain why their unmatched rates tend to be lower than some other specialties given how competitive they are in actuality.)
also, sometimes these percentages are not meaningful between different specialties (as they might be for the same specialty between different years). Some residencies are just self-selecting (for example, people who are interested in neurosurgery probably won't even bother to apply unless they are at the top of their classes, which may explain why their unmatched rates tend to be lower than some other specialties given how competitive they are in actuality.)
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2000
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 0
ana...
I'm debating between two medical schools, and think I might be interested in radiology - in addition to your tips to Gino, how much consideration should one give to school 'ranking'? One of the schools is ranked and has a lot more research money going to it. Assuming that I can follow the tips you gave, how much do you think I should worry about school rep when I'm picking med school in the first place? No guarantee that I'll do radiology or any other speciality for that matter, but don't want to shoot myself in the foot.
I'm debating between two medical schools, and think I might be interested in radiology - in addition to your tips to Gino, how much consideration should one give to school 'ranking'? One of the schools is ranked and has a lot more research money going to it. Assuming that I can follow the tips you gave, how much do you think I should worry about school rep when I'm picking med school in the first place? No guarantee that I'll do radiology or any other speciality for that matter, but don't want to shoot myself in the foot.
A
ana
Jawkma,
Since you are posting anonymously anyway, would you mind telling me which schools they are and what is the disparity in ranking? Also, you should consider your own needs. For instance, are there personal reasons you might be more comfortable at one over the other?
Choosing schools should not be based on ranking alone. If you are going to be happy in in a lower ranked school, who is to say you wouldn't do better there in terms of grades and board scores? Obviously, it's always desireable to go to a program that is well thought of other personal needs being equal.
I think you can get into just about any residency you want to from just about any school in the U.S., and I would not choose a school based on the type of residency you want. The only exception to this is if you want to pursue an academic career, then you should go somewhere more research oriented.
I don't really have more advice for someone at your stage of the game. Just do your best (good grades/boards), do your rotation in radiology early, let the program director know of your interest, and ask more specific advice from them.
Since you are posting anonymously anyway, would you mind telling me which schools they are and what is the disparity in ranking? Also, you should consider your own needs. For instance, are there personal reasons you might be more comfortable at one over the other?
Choosing schools should not be based on ranking alone. If you are going to be happy in in a lower ranked school, who is to say you wouldn't do better there in terms of grades and board scores? Obviously, it's always desireable to go to a program that is well thought of other personal needs being equal.
I think you can get into just about any residency you want to from just about any school in the U.S., and I would not choose a school based on the type of residency you want. The only exception to this is if you want to pursue an academic career, then you should go somewhere more research oriented.
I don't really have more advice for someone at your stage of the game. Just do your best (good grades/boards), do your rotation in radiology early, let the program director know of your interest, and ask more specific advice from them.
First do some rotations in radiology to see if you like it. I was very much into radiology until the 3rd wk of my rads rotation where the days started to drag going thru image after image in the reading room. You must keep in mind you will be doing this for the rest of your life. If you are determined to pursue this field then consider waiting it off for a couple yrs until this radiology upswing wears off.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 1999
- Messages
- 184
- Reaction score
- 1
ana-
I am going to chime in here because I am facing the same dilemma as jawkma. I have three schools with very different US News ranks (Univ. of Colorado-#33 but known for primary care, Georgetown-#44 which gets a bad rap, but has a great match list including 8 rads matches last year, and Loma Linda-unranked but near my family, and the most affordable.) I felt very comfortable at all of them and they each have strengths, so I have to go by which will best prepare me for my choice of specialty.
Lest I get flamed by anyone else, I am not looking for someone to make my choice for me, and ana, I know you said you don't have too much advice for someone at this stage in their education, but I was hoping that being in LA you might know something about at least Loma Linda.
Thanks!!
I am going to chime in here because I am facing the same dilemma as jawkma. I have three schools with very different US News ranks (Univ. of Colorado-#33 but known for primary care, Georgetown-#44 which gets a bad rap, but has a great match list including 8 rads matches last year, and Loma Linda-unranked but near my family, and the most affordable.) I felt very comfortable at all of them and they each have strengths, so I have to go by which will best prepare me for my choice of specialty.
Lest I get flamed by anyone else, I am not looking for someone to make my choice for me, and ana, I know you said you don't have too much advice for someone at this stage in their education, but I was hoping that being in LA you might know something about at least Loma Linda.
Thanks!!
A
ana
Scully, this is going to be a long reply, so I hope you are sitting down.
Do not take the US News rankings so seriously. There are problems with their rankings, & schools are notorious for manipulating data in order to get a higher rank. An article came out in Rolling Stone regarding this 4 years ago. U.S. News made up this ranking system to create notoriety and sell magazines (no one even read their magazine before the rankings -- everyone read Time or Newsweek).
Prior to US News, the most prestigious rank system was Gourman's, which ranks LLU around 40th out of 180 or so med schools 4 years ago (last time I looked)-- not bad. You can look this up on the web or your premed office and see what their current rank is, but it rarely changes +/- 5 slots. U.S. News tried very deliberately to be different from Gourman's -- in fact, they rank schools in the top 40 that was at the bottom of Gourman's list. So much for rankings...
You should pick the school that best suits your personal & practical needs. Basing your choice on a residency is not wise because you might change your mind (I did & so did half my friends). The more happy and less stressed you are, the better your performance will be. You can get any residency from just about any school (unless they have academic/accreditation difficulties, and that is not true re. any of your choices), and what really determines your residency are your board scores, letters of rec, and Dean's Letter that is based on your overall academic, clinical, and extracurricular activities. Again, an exception is if you are interested in academic medicine, then you want to go someplace with a lot of research.
Now let me tell you some things to consider:
1. Debt often forces med students to change their minds regarding primary care. High debt burden inclines them to a better compensated specialty.
2. U of Colorado has the highest out of state tuition -- almost $50K for non-Colorado residents.
3. Georgetown had a reputation for being extremely sexist. The year before I got in, they had 70% male class. Obviously, they did a lot of recruiting of female candidates to correct this.
Of course, there are a lot of good things about Colorado and GT. But I just wanted to balance things out a little for LLU (where I interviews for radiology -- loved them by the way).
LLU's clinical and academic reputations are very solid. They do well on boards. They are a major trauma center and are leaders in pediatric transplantation medicine. They have high patient volume. Their students can do rotations in county hospitals where they can see extreme pathologies. Their graduates do well in the match. If you do well there, you will get whatever residency you want. In other words, it's up to you and not your school.
All your choices are very fine ones -- there is not a single bad apple in the bunch. Go to the one you want to go to based on personal preference and forget rankings. Among your choices, there is not enough disparity between them in terms of academic and clinical reputation for it to matter.
I too had a choice of 3 schools, I picked the one that was nearest my loved ones -- to heck with reputation, tuition, etc. (Also, I didn't think I could survive the winters on the East Coast.) Good luck. I am sorry if I did not provide enough info for you to make a choice, but I think it would be hard for you to make a truely horrible one anyway give the schools you mentioned.
[This message has been edited by ana (edited April 26, 2001).]
Do not take the US News rankings so seriously. There are problems with their rankings, & schools are notorious for manipulating data in order to get a higher rank. An article came out in Rolling Stone regarding this 4 years ago. U.S. News made up this ranking system to create notoriety and sell magazines (no one even read their magazine before the rankings -- everyone read Time or Newsweek).
Prior to US News, the most prestigious rank system was Gourman's, which ranks LLU around 40th out of 180 or so med schools 4 years ago (last time I looked)-- not bad. You can look this up on the web or your premed office and see what their current rank is, but it rarely changes +/- 5 slots. U.S. News tried very deliberately to be different from Gourman's -- in fact, they rank schools in the top 40 that was at the bottom of Gourman's list. So much for rankings...
You should pick the school that best suits your personal & practical needs. Basing your choice on a residency is not wise because you might change your mind (I did & so did half my friends). The more happy and less stressed you are, the better your performance will be. You can get any residency from just about any school (unless they have academic/accreditation difficulties, and that is not true re. any of your choices), and what really determines your residency are your board scores, letters of rec, and Dean's Letter that is based on your overall academic, clinical, and extracurricular activities. Again, an exception is if you are interested in academic medicine, then you want to go someplace with a lot of research.
Now let me tell you some things to consider:
1. Debt often forces med students to change their minds regarding primary care. High debt burden inclines them to a better compensated specialty.
2. U of Colorado has the highest out of state tuition -- almost $50K for non-Colorado residents.
3. Georgetown had a reputation for being extremely sexist. The year before I got in, they had 70% male class. Obviously, they did a lot of recruiting of female candidates to correct this.
Of course, there are a lot of good things about Colorado and GT. But I just wanted to balance things out a little for LLU (where I interviews for radiology -- loved them by the way).
LLU's clinical and academic reputations are very solid. They do well on boards. They are a major trauma center and are leaders in pediatric transplantation medicine. They have high patient volume. Their students can do rotations in county hospitals where they can see extreme pathologies. Their graduates do well in the match. If you do well there, you will get whatever residency you want. In other words, it's up to you and not your school.
All your choices are very fine ones -- there is not a single bad apple in the bunch. Go to the one you want to go to based on personal preference and forget rankings. Among your choices, there is not enough disparity between them in terms of academic and clinical reputation for it to matter.
I too had a choice of 3 schools, I picked the one that was nearest my loved ones -- to heck with reputation, tuition, etc. (Also, I didn't think I could survive the winters on the East Coast.) Good luck. I am sorry if I did not provide enough info for you to make a choice, but I think it would be hard for you to make a truely horrible one anyway give the schools you mentioned.
[This message has been edited by ana (edited April 26, 2001).]
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2000
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 0
ana,
After reading your post to scully - a lot of my questions were answered.
I'm looking at Ohio State and at West Virginia Univ. I can probably make an equal list of pros and cons for personal reasons (i.e. not ranking) and am leaning towards WVU. Because OSU is larger and has a lot more research $$, I didn't know if that would be a necessary advantage. I also posed the question because I am early in process and I wasn't sure how strongly to consider 'reputation/ranking' when it comes to trying to get a speciality residency.
I guess it is human to try to find something 'objective' like a ranking to help make a decision. Too bad they aren't really objective! All the points made by the recent posters have been very helpful and are good things to remember. I need to 1) like where I go, 2) do well when I'm there, and 3) express interest in where I want to go. Seems simple enough.
Ha!
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know where OSU and WVU are on the Gourman rankings?
After reading your post to scully - a lot of my questions were answered.
I'm looking at Ohio State and at West Virginia Univ. I can probably make an equal list of pros and cons for personal reasons (i.e. not ranking) and am leaning towards WVU. Because OSU is larger and has a lot more research $$, I didn't know if that would be a necessary advantage. I also posed the question because I am early in process and I wasn't sure how strongly to consider 'reputation/ranking' when it comes to trying to get a speciality residency.
I guess it is human to try to find something 'objective' like a ranking to help make a decision. Too bad they aren't really objective! All the points made by the recent posters have been very helpful and are good things to remember. I need to 1) like where I go, 2) do well when I'm there, and 3) express interest in where I want to go. Seems simple enough.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know where OSU and WVU are on the Gourman rankings?
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 893
- Reaction score
- 2
Go to Ohio State. Much, much more prestigious. But, if that is not important to you or you know you will be much happier in Morgantown, then by all means go there. I don't know where each are on the scale but it will be OSU>>WVa
------------------
Rob
http://views.vcu.edu/medimf/rob/greatpumpkin.shtml
------------------
Rob
http://views.vcu.edu/medimf/rob/greatpumpkin.shtml
- Joined
- Sep 9, 1999
- Messages
- 184
- Reaction score
- 1
Thanks so much for your reply, ana. That really helps. I wasn't sure about LLUs reputation (since I have no premed advisor to ask) -- it is great to hear that it is solid. Best of luck to you!
[This message has been edited by scully (edited April 26, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by scully (edited April 26, 2001).]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by jawkma:
ana,
After reading your post to scully - a lot of my questions were answered.
I'm looking at Ohio State and at West Virginia Univ. I can probably make an equal list of pros and cons for personal reasons (i.e. not ranking) and am leaning towards WVU. Because OSU is larger and has a lot more research $$, I didn't know if that would be a necessary advantage. I also posed the question because I am early in process and I wasn't sure how strongly to consider 'reputation/ranking' when it comes to trying to get a speciality residency.
I guess it is human to try to find something 'objective' like a ranking to help make a decision. Too bad they aren't really objective! All the points made by the recent posters have been very helpful and are good things to remember. I need to 1) like where I go, 2) do well when I'm there, and 3) express interest in where I want to go. Seems simple enough.Ha!
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know where OSU and WVU are on the Gourman rankings?•
I don't know the rankings specifics either, but Great Pumpkin is on the money. WVU is "generally considered" to be in the bottom tier of medical schools. Obviously, any school in the US will provide you with a good education but if you are concerned with rep, OSU has a better one.
------------------
PGY1
Penn State University
Department of Surgery
