cardamom23
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The general difference in attitude about recreational substance use between veterinary professionals in the US and Canada is interesting to me. I often hear from my American colleagues and classmates how it's their duty as a doctor to hold themselves to a higher code of standard and it's inappropriate for vets to do things like that outside of work hours (obviously not all Americans, but enough have said this that I've noticed it now). In comparison, it feels like a ton of people I encounter in the field here are saying "I don't know how I could survive being in vet med without my nightly joints", and even my most conservative coworkers are pro. I assume it's because of the difference in legality at the federal level (in cannabis specifically) even though both countries have generally similar attitudes about it and rates of use.
I think you’re running into a specific type of person or people who live in states where it isn’t legal. Living in MA and MN (where it is legal) more professionals than not that I’ve worked with have used it or continue to use it. The boundary for them is being unimpaired at work and unimpaired on call.
Agreed. I haven't met a veterinary professional in CO who judges the use. It's pretty analogous to alcohol use here culturally. If anything, use of both seems to anecdotally be falling. Though that may be because synthetic cannabis products are starting to be an issue
Thirding that it’s highly regional, as someone who grew up in states where it was fully illegal at the time, practiced in a state where it was fully legal and now living back in a state where it is now medicinally but not recreationally legal. I’ve never partaken even when living where it was totally legal, but attitudes around it are widely variable. Most professionals in my current state wouldn’t admit use even if they do for fear that it could affect their licensing since it’s federally and state-ally illegal here.
Interesting! Most of the people I've been hearing this from were from California or PNW area, so that makes sense for it being a regional thing (or just that the people I'm interacting with go that way). It's been brought up like, 3 or 4 times in the last week by them lol which is why I was so curious!
Oh jeez, the synthetic stuff is scary. The concept of overdosable cannabis is insane. My best friend drove through the US once and he called me from somewhere in Appalachia shocked because he found it as well as KRATOM for sale in a random gas station lol and we were shocked you can just... buy that stuff whenever you want.
Is it true in most states you have to get a seperate licence from your veterinary one to be able to prescribe medication (like DEA or whatever)? It seems kinda odd to me because if you can't get it, are you just practicing as a vet and diagnosing and performing surgery and all but not able to give meds? Like I think in NS if I screwed up badly enough to be banned from prescribing meds they would just take away my whole licence.
Kratom is legal in the state where I live (Michigan) and have definitely seen signs for places that have it for sale as well 😂Oh jeez, the synthetic stuff is scary. The concept of overdosable cannabis is insane. My best friend drove through the US once and he called me from somewhere in Appalachia shocked because he found it as well as KRATOM for sale in a random gas station lol and we were shocked you can just... buy that stuff whenever you want.
John Oliver has a spectacular segment on kratom and 7OH.Oh jeez, the synthetic stuff is scary. The concept of overdosable cannabis is insane. My best friend drove through the US once and he called me from somewhere in Appalachia shocked because he found it as well as KRATOM for sale in a random gas station lol and we were shocked you can just... buy that stuff whenever you want.
In MN, delta 9 (true THC) is what's legal. I think they do that to try to avoid the spread of more potent synthetics. It's very confusing for a lay person.
I know a few vets who don't have DEA licenses (for varying reasons). It just means you cannot prescribe scheduled (controlled) drugs. You can still prescribe non-controlled. Some clinics just need the owner to have a DEA to use drugs in clinic. It's nice to have someone on staff who has a DEA for prescribing. But you don't actually need it to practice medicine.
DEA is only for controlled substances (things like tramadol, opioids, benzos, etc) and you can still prescribe non-controlled things without a DEA and with just a regular veterinary license.
You can practice with your state vet license but you need a separate DEA license to prescribe controlled substances. If one doctor at your hospital has a DEA license they can provide controlled drugs to the hospital like for use in surgery and to fill a post-op script for the patient (if they want, it’s added liability for them and some practices make every doctor have their own DEA license) but you can’t write a controlled prescription to an outside pharmacy if you don’t have your own DEA. I didn’t have my own DEA license as an intern. There were only a couple of instances when I needed the vet with the actual DEA license to write a paper script, both times were for phenobarbital the owner couldn’t afford to fill with us and they needed cheaper options and an outside script.
Saw a kratom toxicosis in a pom puppy a while back. Mom had 150 to spend across the whole visit, so ended up donating fluids and such. Poison control was adamant I hospitalize but, well. No such luck.
That was me as long as I could ride it! $888 is obnoxious and the risk isn't zero. But here I am, now with my own license. Back in the ER, I simply didn't script anything out. Not that I do that regularly now anyways
This makes me so sad. So many people don't even know how kratom works or why it's dangerous; I didn't realize how scary it was until recently myself. And it's not like you can use naloxone.
Arguing with people about dog food: easy, beginner level
Arguing with people about rabbit or horse feed: elite level
today, I had someone say protein makes horses fat. Then they back tracked to say that protein that goes over the calorie limit causes obesity. Then they started trash talking vets because a new grad didn’t know about HYPP and recommended beet pulp or something. I don’t know.
Arguing with people about rabbit or horse feed: elite level
today, I had someone say protein makes horses fat. Then they back tracked to say that protein that goes over the calorie limit causes obesity. Then they started trash talking vets because a new grad didn’t know about HYPP and recommended beet pulp or something. I don’t know.
Did you tell them to say that to themselves really slowly? Cause I don't think I could have resisted
I tried. I even showed them a Vetprep question explanation that said protein doesn’t make horses fat
meanwhile people be dumping vegetable oil into their horse's buckets without a second thought
HAPPY BIRTHDAY @Animal Midwife!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you!
Thank you!
They should be the stars of 1000 Ways To Die
They walk on a single digit and have a colon that defies gravity. Some parts of anatomy and physiology really make me consider the concept of intelligent design. Horses are my constant argument against it.
Kratom is awesome when used responsibly and it’s the only thing I can use to manage my chronic back pain from breaking my back
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
Thinking about getting pet insurance for my cat. Has anyone had luck getting a company to reimburse tooth extractions as covered under dental disease?
I've found some affordable plans that say they cover dental extractions under illnesses, but not routine cleanings. He's to an age where he's going to need medically necessary extractions soon if not already (9-10 ish) but I'm worried I would take him in and spend the 1-2k and they would refuse to reimburse.
I've found some affordable plans that say they cover dental extractions under illnesses, but not routine cleanings. He's to an age where he's going to need medically necessary extractions soon if not already (9-10 ish) but I'm worried I would take him in and spend the 1-2k and they would refuse to reimburse.
I got an estimate for possible extractions for my cat’s dental and Trupanion pre-approved the extraction cost but not anything else (anesthesia, routine cleaning, bloodwork, etc) as it falls under preventative care. If you’re just looking for extraction coverage, they would probably be your best bet but also the most expensive given your cat’s age.
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
That's a good idea, thanks!
I think a lot of times they require a dental prophy within like 13 months and no evidence of disease so def check about that before signing up wherever. I know pumpkin does have dental coverage but I don’t know know if they’d consider anything preexisting or not
I had extractions and even the cleaning covered by Nationwide several years ago but I 100% do not recommend Nationwide because of general trouble getting payouts but especially due to recent dropping of clients and exorbitant rate hikes. But resorptive lesions were found on my dog during a routine dental in 2018ish. They tried to deny the claim but the vet who did the dental wrote a repeal letter explaining that you can’t extract dirty teeth and you needed the anesthesia to take rads and diagnose tooth resorption so they did cover it, but they fought it first.
My current Trupanion policy theoretically covers dental diseases but only if there was no existing tartar and that you’ve done all recommended cleanings when recommended by the vet in the intervening years. But basically any evidence of tartar or delay in addressing it they make it clear will be grounds for denial.
In my opinion, if your cat is already 10, it’s not worth the cost because they’ll make every thing preexisting somehow and your premiums will be high insuring at that high of an age. I’d just start saving monthly. Pet insurance is best when you can insure something as a kitten/puppy and everything is covered.
My current Trupanion policy theoretically covers dental diseases but only if there was no existing tartar and that you’ve done all recommended cleanings when recommended by the vet in the intervening years. But basically any evidence of tartar or delay in addressing it they make it clear will be grounds for denial.
In my opinion, if your cat is already 10, it’s not worth the cost because they’ll make every thing preexisting somehow and your premiums will be high insuring at that high of an age. I’d just start saving monthly. Pet insurance is best when you can insure something as a kitten/puppy and everything is covered.
I second Trupanion, but for anything dental to be covered, you have to have yearly documented exams (I think yearly) that detail the condition of your pet's teeth. We've have trupanion for years but because I'm a vet, my pets don't get 'official' yearly exams. As a result, Trupanion won't cover anything dental even though they don't require yearly exams to cover anything else.
Trupanion otherwise covers things well, but on occasion I've had to argue with them over things that seem obvious to me (ie my dog's anal gland infection is not related to the fleas he had when he was surrendered to the shelter I adopted him from).
If your cat is already 9-10 and there are notes of dental disease in his previous exams, you're not getting dental work covered by anyone unfortunately. Could still be beneficial for unavoidable medical problems in old animals, though
Also this though. I think my old man cat hit $160/month by the time he died (Trupanion). We did claim quite a lot on him though so it was worth it. Like all insurance, it's a gamble. You'll hate yourself for not getting it when you're handed a $8-10k estimate, but you'll also hate yourself when you've spent a few grand on keeping coverage active and then not needing it
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
Surprisingly he hasn't! He definitely does have normal-for-his-age amounts of tartar, but hasn't had it noted on exams, or any bad teeth documented, so I am hopeful that there may be grounds for coverage if he is diagnosed with dental disease after the waiting periods.
Lots of good advice here to check if it will be covered before I buy a policy or make an appointment. Thanks all!
They get really weird about anything that might even be close to routine care. I brought my boy in because he was bleeding/pooping blood, licking, and scooting. They did a sedated anal gland expression and Trupanion covered everything except the gland expression charge. They told me they just never cover it because whether it’s medically indicated or not because it a routine/grooming charge.
I hope you’re right, but I strongly suspect that any tartar will make you ineligible; they won’t believe in “normal for his age” amounts, they’ll use the presence of any to deny you. It’s good it hasn’t been documented before, but you’ll probably have to have an exam at the start of your policy or they’ll say that it couldn’t have possibly happened quickly and use that as the basis to exclude you. These companies are out to make money, not pay claims, so they will truly use ANY excuses they can to deny you. Again, I hope I’m being cynical and this isn’t your experience, but I would proceed in the presumption they won’t cover any of it and just be pleasantly surprised if you do get them to pay anything in regards to dental disease.
That's ridiculous when it's for an anal gland infection / impaction under a sick appointment or ER visit. 🙄 Of course it's part of treatment
This is the number one reason I don't want to work in an insurance company. I feel like I'd get fired for being too forgiving on claims
Honestly whenever I used to manage to talk to an actual DVM at the insurance company it was always nice and they would agree things should be covered and things were great. One even encouraged me to submit an additional claim for part of a surgery to see what they’d cover when I just assumed they’d refuse to pay because they found new pathology during surgery for preexisting conditions. It was dealing with the techs and customer support people on the front lines that only kinda know the medical part and are just looking for keywords to deny you that I found frustrating.
After of over a year covering my dog’s pred, lab work, and internal medicine/onco monitoring for his insulinoma, they decided deny prednisone because that was “used to treat allergies and allergies were preexisting”. Had to talk to three people and point out that he was on literally 1/10th the dose that you would need to actually effectively treat allergies (literally 0.1mg/kg) and how allergies aren’t the only use for pred to get them to go back to covering his little whiff of pred to keep his glucose up.
Right??? You’ll cover the $80+ procedure sedation that wouldn’t even be necessary if not for the $24 anal gland expression you’re denying? They happened to be right that his anal gland wasn’t even the issue but still.
I've considered it on and off over the last year or so since things blew up at my last place. Vet med has the opportunity to do insurance right and not fall into the trap that human medicine did. But I also wonder how much time I'd get to look into legitimacy of a treatment that isn't in a consensus statement or something. Like cerenia nose drops.
Sometimes you just got to consult your tarot card reader.
