RANT HERE thread

[dyachei]

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changing the topic:
Heard "Help! Somebody help me!" coming from the kennel area. Associate and I looked at each other and went running back before finding a kennel tech from across the road (they use our space for a fee) and two dogs locked at the mouths. There was blood EVERYWHERE and it took the magic of drugs to separate them (and subsequently treat them). Why is this a rant? Well, both dogs should recover well, but they are rescue dogs. Who are taking dogs other rescues won't work with an trying to place them. I wish we could place all dogs, too, but there's a reason this one dog was set to be euthanized.

 

[hazelmoo]

changing the topic:
Heard "Help! Somebody help me!" coming from the kennel area. Associate and I looked at each other and went running back before finding a kennel tech from across the road (they use our space for a fee) and two dogs locked at the mouths. There was blood EVERYWHERE and it took the magic of drugs to separate them (and subsequently treat them). Why is this a rant? Well, both dogs should recover well, but they are rescue dogs. Who are taking dogs other rescues won't work with an trying to place them. I wish we could place all dogs, too, but there's a reason this one dog was set to be euthanized.

I hate this.. Had a neighbor who had a dog that literally had to wear a muzzle at all times except when we was eating. He rescued him even though he is very people/dog aggressive. Why not rescue a nice dog who needs a home instead? Is it really worth having a miserable and angry dog kept alive? Awful.

 

[battie]

I wish we could place all dogs, too, but there's a reason this one dog was set to be euthanized.

I agree that we can't save them all, and it makes me sad that sometimes it takes a horrible accident for something to be done about individual animals that cannot stay with us.

 

[pp9]

changing the topic:
Heard "Help! Somebody help me!" coming from the kennel area. Associate and I looked at each other and went running back before finding a kennel tech from across the road (they use our space for a fee) and two dogs locked at the mouths. There was blood EVERYWHERE and it took the magic of drugs to separate them (and subsequently treat them). Why is this a rant? Well, both dogs should recover well, but they are rescue dogs. Who are taking dogs other rescues won't work with an trying to place them. I wish we could place all dogs, too, but there's a reason this one dog was set to be euthanized.

We had a client who did this. She's actually become an animal hoarder at this point is is frequently in legal trouble over it all. She won't euthanize them, but she can't always find adopters. It's kind of sad...you get trapped in a cycle of guilt and wanting to help the animals, but lose sight over the reality of things. My boss has said she's had to dart animals for her because there were a few over the years that essentially took over her house in an aggressive, dangerous way. 🙁

 

[rockatiel]

I hate when people are disrespectful of other people's choices, and that goes both ways. I'm a vegetarian (living in Texas) and I get SOO much s*** from people about it. The meat industry makes me kind of sad, but I understand why people eat meat and I respect that (however, I do think people eat way too much meat... To a level in which it's not healthy). When I travel to other countries, I eat meat so I can get a feel for the culture, so I'm not as strict as some. But, there are some foods that I actually beg people not to eat and I can see how that would be bothersome, but awareness is a big issue for me. For example, I will literally beg people to not buy or eat octopus or squid. They are so incredibly intelligent it's insane, and it kills me that they are caught or farmed and treated so poorly, and people buy in to the horrible industry and eat them. But that's really the only animals I'm that passionate against people eating. For me, there's not a huge difference between cows and goats and dogs and cats. I just can't eat them! But I'm still respectful of other people's habits and I don't think that not eating for meat signifies that one person loves animals more than another... Maybe I'll eat meat again one day, when I can afford not to buy it from regular stores in which I have no real knowledge of where it came from or how it was treated.. Who knows!

I'm definitely not an obsessive meat eater, and yes the industry could use some work. I don't see how people eat octopus or squid. It's gross lol

 

[rockatiel]

changing the topic:
Heard "Help! Somebody help me!" coming from the kennel area. Associate and I looked at each other and went running back before finding a kennel tech from across the road (they use our space for a fee) and two dogs locked at the mouths. There was blood EVERYWHERE and it took the magic of drugs to separate them (and subsequently treat them). Why is this a rant? Well, both dogs should recover well, but they are rescue dogs. Who are taking dogs other rescues won't work with an trying to place them. I wish we could place all dogs, too, but there's a reason this one dog was set to be euthanized.

The thing is, rescue dogs can be rehabbed. But it takes a very diligent, very long time. Definitely not in a rescue setting. And there's still the chance that the dog's old behavior will show again.

 

[dyachei]

The thing is, rescue dogs can be rehabbed. But it takes a very diligent, very long time. Definitely not in a rescue setting. And there's still the chance that the dog's old behavior will show again.

I completely agree. This degree of aggression usually can't be rehabbed out without lots of drugs, training, and time. This "rescue" doesn't have those resources. Even antibiotics and pain control were a stretch.

 

[battie]

I'm definitely not an obsessive meat eater, and yes the industry could use some work. I don't see how people eat octopus or squid. It's gross lol

Totes agree with this. Going to undergrad in Nebraska, it irritates me when some people say that nothing is okay about our meat from conception to dinner table, cause there are some producers that care and do right by their animals. There's always room for improvement of course.

 

[Jess Monster]

Oh, so today is the day the tree people decide to stop by and take the tree out. Great. Not like I had plans or anything.

I just hope they don't break my **** or run off with my rake.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Through my nutritional sciences studies (very good program that's the non-dietetics route at my university) + research + years and years of passion about food, I've realized one very important truth: in polite company, never talk about religion, politics, or nutrition."

 

[WildZoo]

Through my nutritional sciences studies (very good program that's the non-dietetics route at my university) + research + years and years of passion about food, I've realized one very important truth: in polite company, never talk about religion, politics, or nutrition."

Especially pet nutrition

 

[Caia]

I've just kinda thought of this, but how do vegetarians/vegans that are quite strict for themselves on not using animal products of any kind, feel about feeding cats? I know some will buy vegetarian dog food. Just honestly curious. 🙂

 

[hazelmoo]

I've just kinda thought of this, but how do vegetarians/vegans that are quite strict for themselves on not using animal products of any kind, feel about feeding cats? I know some will buy vegetarian dog food. Just honestly curious. 🙂

In my opinion, dogs and cats NEED meat, humans don't (I do just fine without it). So I don't feel bad about feeding my animals dog/cat food made with meat because that's what their body needs! Also, most dog foods use byproducts that were left over from human meat companies, so it's just using what is already available and not needing to kill more. I think the vegetarian food is specially made for animals with certain allergies. At least, that's what we occasionally recommend it for at my clinic!

I also have a snake I feed 1 mouse to per week. I hate doing it, but that's what he needs to survive. I breed them at the wildlife center I work for, and euthanize them myself there... so I know they lived a good life before their death and died in a humane, painless way. Circle of life I guess.

 

[Jess Monster]

Through my nutritional sciences studies (very good program that's the non-dietetics route at my university) + research + years and years of passion about food, I've realized one very important truth: in polite company, never talk about religion, politics, or nutrition."

I would say some people are religious about their diets which is weird and also unbelievably hilarious, especially when they start proselytizing and trying to "witness" to people about how this or that diet plan cured their whatever. The detox diet people are a personal favorite of mine.

 

[battie]

The detox diet people are a personal favorite of mine.

These people.

 

[Jess Monster]

I've just kinda thought of this, but how do vegetarians/vegans that are quite strict for themselves on not using animal products of any kind, feel about feeding cats? I know some will buy vegetarian dog food. Just honestly curious. 🙂

It depends on what they know about cat biology and nutrition. I've seen numerous stories over the years about uneducated owners trying to feed vegan diets to cats (or ferrets) with terrible and totally expected results. Some people think "obligate carnivore" is a suggestion.

 

[Caia]

It depends on what they know about cat biology and nutrition. I've seen numerous stories over the years about uneducated owners trying to feed vegan diets to cats (or ferrets) with terrible and totally expected results. Some people think "obligate carnivore" is a suggestion.

I think it would be an interesting conversation for those that would see animal production of any kind stopped entirely for everyone.

 

[dyachei]

I think it would be an interesting conversation for those that would see animal production of any kind stopped entirely for everyone.

I had a client that would have preferred this until I explained why we recommend meat based diets for cats. She came around very quickly when the words "heart failure" were uttered.

 

[hazelmoo]

I think it would be an interesting conversation for those that would see animal production of any kind stopped entirely for everyone.

I think that would be completely unrealistic and pointless to talk about with crazy people who think that.. lol

I had a psycho vegan girl tell me once that I was a horrible person for eating eggs and dairy. I explained to her that I buy my eggs from my friend who has a farm in the area, and the chickens are her pets. They are so sweet, love to be pet and cuddled. Anyways, she proceeded to tell me that I was a "disgusting freak" because eating chicken eggs is the equivalent to eating human period blood. Her tactics of trying to make people see it through her eyes were extremely disheartening and pointless, and she is never going to get anyone to listen to her acting that way. When I told her this, she blocked me. LOL

Next time you eat eggs, just think of her and how she thinks eggs are period blood... And no matter how much we do for animals, we are still horrible people for eating them!

 

[battie]

she proceeded to tell me that I was a "disgusting freak" because eating chicken eggs is the equivalent to eating human period blood.

Well, someone doesn't really understand avian physiology very well. I don't make that equivocation at all. Sure, we're getting rid of eggs with our periods, but our uterus is sloughing off skin. When birds lay an egg, they don't do that (as far as what I can remember from Orno)

 

[hazelmoo]

Well, someone doesn't really understand avian physiology very well. I don't make that equivocation at all. Sure, we're getting rid of eggs with our periods, but our uterus is sloughing off skin. When birds lay an egg, they don't do that (as far as what I can remember from Orno)

I know. And then she tried to argue that we steal eggs from the chickens because they don't give us their permission to take them... And "in the wild" they eat their own eggs for nurition. It made no sense, because 1) chickens can't talk so how else would they give permission besides expelling the eggs from their body to oblivion 2) "in the wild" chickens are on the bottom of the food chain anyways and 3) so now chickens eat their own period blood? Ugh so psycho

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

In my opinion, dogs and cats NEED meat, humans don't (I do just fine without it).

I would assume there's nothing inherently special to the meat, and that cat would be just fine if you met protein, vitamin, and mineral requirements and kept him/her from being deficient in anything. Is it economically preferred and easier to just feed the cat what the cat's evolved to eat? Probably.

If you're a very strict vegan, you can do just fine without eating meat, but you're also prone to deficiencies of B12, B6, Iron, Calcium, etc. For example, the bioavaiability of non-heme iron in plant foods is substantially less than heme-iron, and other compounds in plants further exacerbate the issue by binding iron which decreases absorption even further.

These people.

Negative energy balance --> Lost water weight --> Glycogenolysis until depleted --> Adaptive starvation --> Catabolization of muscle protein to provide amino acids for liver to produce glucose --> Doing no good --> Eat --> Likely gain all that weight back plus more --> I'll try the Hollywood Cookie Diet now

 

[Caia]

I would assume there's nothing inherently special to the meat, and that cat would be just fine if you met protein, vitamin, and mineral requirements and kept him/her from being deficient in anything. Is it economically preferred and easier to just feed the cat what the cat's evolved to eat? Probably.

This is actually not the case. Cats cannot synthesize arachidonic acid which is sourced from animal fats. You literally cannot get around it.

Canine requirements can be met with a properly balanced vegetarian diet.

 

[WildZoo]

I would assume there's nothing inherently special to the meat, and that cat would be just fine if you met protein, vitamin, and mineral requirements and kept him/her from being deficient in anything. Is it economically preferred and easier to just feed the cat what the cat's evolved to eat? Probably.

As long as you had a way to obtain synthetic versions of taurine and arachidonic acid (for taurine this is possible, I don't know if it is for AA) you could technically have your cat on a vegan diet, maybe. I think you'd really have to examine your reasoning at that point though. Seems like a lot of projection and most of the time it's to make the owner feel better, not in any way to do what is best for the cat. If they want to have a vegan or vegetarian pet then they should choose a pet that is actually evolved for that kind of diet, like a rabbit or something.

 

[Trilt]

Most vegans are very reasonable with feeding meat-based diets to cats, and when you see the conversation come up you'll regularly see a lot of admonishing for people that don't. "If you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit" is something I've seen fairly commonly in v*gan boards and the such.

 

[Caia]

As long as you had a way to obtain synthetic versions of taurine and arachidonic acid (for taurine this is possible, I don't know if it is for AA) you could technically have your cat on a vegan diet, maybe. I think you'd really have to examine your reasoning at that point though. Seems like a lot of projection and most of the time it's to make the owner feel better, not in any way to do what is best for the cat. If they want to have a vegan or vegetarian pet then they should choose a pet that is actually evolved for that kind of diet, like a rabbit or something.

From what the nutritionist has lectured on, there's no way to synthesize it without animal products. So at least that makes it an easy, black/white scenario.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

This is actually not the case. Cats cannot synthesize arachidonic acid which is sourced from animal fats. You literally cannot get around it.

Canine requirements can be met with a properly balanced vegetarian diet.

Yea, so we're talking about a lacto-ovo-pescatarian cat? Arachidonic acid solved.

From what the nutritionist has lectured on, there's no way to synthesize it without animal products.

Omega 3/6 FA are essential. Have to get them from diet.

 

[Caia]

Omega 3/6 FA are essential. Have to get them from diet.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying?

 

[dyachei]

Yea, so we're talking about a lacto-ovo-pescatarian cat? Arachidonic acid solved.



Omega 3/6 FA are essential. Have to get them from diet.

even the best vegetarian diets with added minerals/nutrients don't tend to have good long term successes for cats.

 

[WildZoo]

Most vegans are very reasonable with feeding meat-based diets to cats, and when you see the conversation come up you'll regularly see a lot of admonishing for people that don't. "If you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit" is something I've seen fairly commonly in v*gan boards and the such.

I figured most people would be reasonable about it. Probably most cases of people trying to feed their cats vegan or vegetarian diets arise out of ignorance of the particular dietary needs of the cat. And, the fact that such diets are actually available online (though I haven't seen them in stores).

 

[DVMDream]

In my opinion, dogs and cats NEED meat, humans don't (I do just fine without it).

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

 

[battie]

I know. And then she tried to argue that we steal eggs from the chickens because they don't give us their permission to take them... And "in the wild" they eat their own eggs for nurition. It made no sense, because 1) chickens can't talk so how else would they give permission besides expelling the eggs from their body to oblivion 2) "in the wild" chickens are on the bottom of the food chain anyways and 3) so now chickens eat their own period blood? Ugh so psycho

And there it is, folks. Someone who doesn't understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare.

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

Me dos. My doctor told me she would disown me if I tried to go vegetarian or vegan due to health issues that would go even more south if I stopped eating meat (joking of course).

 

[dyachei]

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

And there it is, folks. Someone who doesn't understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare.



Me dos. My doctor told me she would disown me if I tried to go vegetarian or vegan due to health issues that would go even more south if I stopped eating meat (joking of course).

thirded. Not only do I get anemic, with my very specific health issue, high protein diets are preferred - which is much easier to do when meat is consumed.

 

[battie]

Residents broke the elevator twenty minutes before I was scheduled to be off. They better be ready for some hard core community service.

 

[Skimble]

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

I don't understand why people care what other people eat. I don't eat meat but my son, BF and pets all do. It's a personal issue for the individual. Occasionally people tell me "I'd be vegetarian but..." Honestly, I don't care. You do what's best for you and I'll do what's best for me. It doesn't offend me when people eat meat or talk about it, I even had an in depth conversation about how awesome scrapple is with one of my prof's today.

As far as keeping carnivores, I chose to own them and I want them to thrive not just survive, so I feed them an appropriate diet. It's not fair to keep a cat/obligate carnivore on a veg diet. A friend of a friend is a vegan vet and did a research project on vegan cats. I've heard she claims it's possible, but her study couldn't have lasted more than 3-4years, so that doesn't show the long term affects.

 

[hazelmoo]

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

Hence, "in my opinion". I still think people don't need meat, it may be harder and less convinient, but it's still possible. But that's not going to stop me from respecting everyone's dietary choices. It's none of my concern.

For me, it is reassuring for to know that certain religions/cultures practice vegetarianism and have been doing fine for thousands of years. It's an interesting concept for me when I talk to people who have been raised vegetarians their whole lives, because my family eats lots of meat and I didn't become a vegetarian until I got to college. I think it's harder for people's bodies to get used to not having meat if they've been eating it forever. It took about a year for me to be completely normal without it, and I still have to take iron pills when I'm on my period!

 

[DVMDream]

Hence, "in my opinion". I still think people don't need meat, it may be harder and less convinient, but it's still possible.

No, it isn't. Possible for you and some people doesn't equal possible for everyone. That's why it is annoying when people perpetuate this. When you insist that someone who says they need meat in their diet for medical purposes could do so if they just try harder, you're not actually listening to them or respecting them. It isn't a lack of trying, there are some people that require meat in their diet. It isn't just "harder" or "inconvenient" it is medicaid necessary for them.

It took about a year for me to be completely normal without it, and I still have to take iron pills when I'm on my period!

This means you aren't "completely normal", your body should be able to compensate for your period without the assistance of iron pills.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

This is great for you, but I get anemic without having regular consumption of meat. I don't care what anyone chooses to eat, but when people imply that because they can survive without meat, everyone can, it gets a little annoying.

I get very anemic very quickly without lots of iron and red meat. I raise some of my meat so I know it lived a happy life and, if at all possible, they NEVER see a moment of fear. I wish I could raise more of my own, but it's not possible on a budget.

I have recently had a manager that was a vegan that said she was fine with my choices but nearly every day would pull out a PETA flier or some study that said we were "all fine" on vegan diets. I worked very hard to avoid arguments and she began trying to punish me through schedule changes. I literally did not know how to help her when she announced she was having some health problems related to a lack of iron and amino acids in her diet (but she also is a self diagnosed super taster and mostly ate fast food at that point).

My understanding of the arachadonic acid thing is that it is difficult to synthesize the L form and the cost would be ridiculous and come nowhere close to meeting demand and that the R is toxic so would need filtered... but I'm trying to remember my 2010 nutrition class.

I have seen the worst case of vegan dog ever! We had a 4 (?) year old chihuahua cross in for a dental with horrific plaque. The tech was prying a plate of calculi off the top when she felt the lower jaw crack in her hands. She flipped the dog hoping it was the plate on the other side and heard another crack. This time it was the dog's leg. When we radiographed that young dog, the only solid bones in it's body were it's teeth. The dog had been mobilizing calcium from it's bones to keep it's heart running. It's blood Ca was dangerously low along with being anemic and we kinda wondered how it was alive. The owner had been feeding the dog nearly the same vegan diet she was eating. We recommended a serious diet change for the dog and that she go talk to her doctor about her own diet and stop using the nutrionist she got the old diet from. Seriously scary and why I have a healthy dislike for "nutrition experts" with initials behind their name that just mean they took a 6 week course from a supplement sales company.

 

[hazelmoo]

No, it isn't. Possible for you and some people doesn't equal possible for everyone. That's why it is annoying when people perpetuate this. When you insist that someone who says they need meat in their diet for medical purposes could do so if they just try harder, you're not actually listening to them or respecting them. It isn't a lack of trying, there are some people that require meat in their diet. It isn't just "harder" or "inconvenient" it is medicaid necessary for them.



This means you aren't "completely normal", your body should be able to compensate for your period without the assistance of iron pills.

I don't care if people decide to eat meat. If you need meat for medical reasons, fine, but I still think that people don't need it. If you don't like that, fine, but it's not going to keep me from thinking it. Your diet has nothing to do with me. When I've been told by doctors, nutritionists, and even my animal science nutrition prof (all whom have done wayyyy more studying and know way more about nutrition than I do) that people don't need it, that's what I'm going to believe. I'm not saying that you could do it if you "tried harder". It sounds like you get the impression that I think I'm better than people who don't eat meat? No. Like I said earlier, I might eat meat again one day when I can afford the kind of meat I think I should buy, but it's not going to be because of health reasons.

I am completely normal. My sister chooses to take iron pills as well because she doesn't eat red meat. It's a recommendation from her nutritionist that everyone takes iron pills while on their period to ensure they have enough iron. I've never not taken them, so I don't know what my body would do without it.. It would probably be fine but I don't care to risk it.

 

[Caiter92]

I'm vegan for ethical reasons, and my pets all eat meat. I know there's studies suggesting dogs can do fine vegetarian, but I wouldn't feel comfortable feeding my dog that way. I've never really had a hard time with feeding my animals meat. I'm vegan not them, and meat is what is best for them, so that's what they get.

If there ever is a time where I no longer feel comfortable having pets that need meat, then I'll just adopt some bunnies. I'm not going to put their health at risk by not feeding them biologically appropriate food.

 

[DVMDream]

I honestly get sick of the perpetuation of "factory farms" and that animals are treated poorly or whatever.

Especially since 97% of the farms in the US are family-owned farms.

And the idea of "free range" animals is actually worse than what people consider "factory farming" but whatever. People like to ignore the science and veterinarians who actually treat these animals and have since the significant difference in the health and management of the various farm types.

 

[Caiter92]

I honestly get sick of the perpetuation of "factory farms" and that animals are treated poorly or whatever.

Especially since 97% of the farms in the US are family-owned farms.

Except those 3% of factory farms are where 99% of animals raised for consumption are from.

 

[hazelmoo]

I honestly get sick of the perpetuation of "factory farms" and that animals are treated poorly or whatever.

Especially since 97% of the farms in the US are family-owned farms.

And the idea of "free range" animals is actually worse than what people consider "factory farming" but whatever. People like to ignore the science and veterinarians who actually treat these animals and have since the significant difference in the health and management of the various farm types.

My issue is that I don't KNOW for a fact where my meat is coming from. I don't know if that animal was abused or treated well. I don't really like the idea of feed lots, especially when I have seen decomposing dead cows scattered among healthy ones eating. I used to live near a Tyson chicken plant, and a friend worked there. They said that people sometimes throw live, conscious chickens in the giant vats of boiling water just because. I'm not saying this happens everywhere, but I can't be sure, which is why I personally don't choose to risk it.

 

[DVMDream]

Except those 3% of factory farms are where 99% of animals raised for consumption are from.

Proof.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I honestly get sick of the perpetuation of "factory farms" and that animals are treated poorly or whatever.

Especially since 97% of the farms in the US are family-owned farms.

And the idea of "free range" animals is actually worse than what people consider "factory farming" but whatever. People like to ignore the science and veterinarians who actually treat these animals and have since the significant difference in the health and management of the various farm types.

I agree. I know the assumption is that I don't, but the semi staged, hand plucked videos by Michael Pollan and others drive me crazy. I have worked with and on many wonderful dairies and beef ranches. I still feel guilty if I sell an animal to someone who will take it to one of the 2 small slaughter facilities here. The USDA inspected one is fine but the other smells like blood and fear to me. I would rather that we follow Temple's goal of clear walls, good treatment and no fear for the animal or the humans. Nobody should have to question that a farmer or processor are doing the best they can by their animals. With good vets and working together with producers and true animal welfare people, not those that want to break the industry, we can have a great system. Some places are way ahead of the curve, others are behind. I want to raise all of them up to a gold standard.

 

[Trilt]

Family farm just means they're owned by a family... that doesn't necessarily mean anything for their welfare standards. It isn't videos of abusive workers or "he said she said" testimony that makes me mostly vegetarian, it is the entire system where we treat animals as production objects and accept thousands of animals dying and suffering as part of business. Some people are fine with that, and that's fine - it just doesn't sit well with me. I eat much less meat after vet school and all our lectures on production medicine, not more.

 

[DVMDream]

I don't care if people decide to eat meat. If you need meat for medical reasons, fine, but I still think that people don't need it. If you don't like that, fine, but it's not going to keep me from thinking it. Your diet has nothing to do with me. When I've been told by doctors, nutritionists, and even my animal science nutrition prof (all whom have done wayyyy more studying and know way more about nutrition than I do) that people don't need it, that's what I'm going to believe. I'm not saying that you could do it if you "tried harder". It sounds like you get the impression that I think I'm better than people who don't eat meat? No. Like I said earlier, I might eat meat again one day when I can afford the kind of meat I think I should buy, but it's not going to be because of health reasons.

I am completely normal. My sister chooses to take iron pills as well because she doesn't eat red meat. It's a recommendation from her nutritionist that everyone takes iron pills while on their period to ensure they have enough iron. I've never not taken them, so I don't know what my body would do without it.. It would probably be fine but I don't care to risk it.

If you have someone that has a difficult time maintaining iron levels, that person needs an iron source.

Iron comes in two forms: heme and nonheme

Heme is the better iron and is more readily absorbed. It is found in meats

Nonheme is found in beans, tofu, grains, seeds, and foods that have been artificially fortified with iron.

You also could place the person on iron pills, which if we are eating appropriately, we should not need to take these.

I have taken iron pills before, there are two forms: ferrous iron and ferric iron.

Ferrous iron is more bioreadily available, while ferric iron is not.

Ferrous iron makes me vomit violently. Ferric iron, while not as bad, makes my stomach hurt though I can still eat when taking it. Ferrous iron will make my iron levels normal, but I won't be able to eat and I will be miserable. Ferric iron will not make my iron levels normal.

Eating meat on a somewhat regular basis makes my iron levels normal. That is why I follow the recommendation of MY doctor who tells me to consume meat on a regular basis.

Nutrition is NOT a one size fits all type of deal. And the fact that you have various doctors, nutritionists and a professor trying to tell you that people don't need something, is kind of sad. Nutrition should be developed based upon the individual and that individual's needs. While there are general nutritional requirements that are the same for most people, the exact specifics of someone's diet is variable.

 

[DVMDream]

Family farm just means they're owned by a family... that doesn't necessarily mean anything for their welfare standards. It isn't videos of abusive workers or "he said she said" testimony that makes me mostly vegetarian, it is the entire system where we treat animals as production objects and accept thousands of animals dying and suffering as part of business. Some people are fine with that, and that's fine - it just doesn't sit well with me. I eat much less meat after vet school and all our lectures on production medicine, not more.

I don't believe farm animals to be "suffering".

And I am aware that family farm doesn't say anything about their welfare standards, just as factory farm says nothing about their welfare standards. But it is the perpetuation that "factory farming" is bad and "family farming" is good, when, in reality, neither states anything about welfare.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

If you have someone that has a difficult time maintaining iron levels, that person needs an iron source.

Iron comes in two forms: heme and nonheme

Heme is the better iron and is more readily absorbed. It is found in meats

Nonheme is found in beans, tofu, grains, seeds, and foods that have been artificially fortified with iron.

You can boost the bio-availability of non-heme substantially by Vitamin C foods in that meal as well. General consensus is about 25%/17% absorption of heme and non-heme, respectively

Nutrition is NOT a one size fits all type of deal.

This is what I have always loved about nutrition, and why I feel nutrition is the future. We really haven't wrapped our heads around the synergistic interplay of bioactive compounds in food. Yes, we can pull a specific compound out of foods and test it, but there's something special about food. Some of the proteonomic research is fascinating, and the role of foods to stimulate epigenetic changes is pretty damn cool.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

My nutrition professor was an input/output based kind of guy. His opinion was that people can survive without meat, but not live well (as in healthy). He talked about legumes and all the alternatives, but spoke over and over about how in order to get the same requirements that a meat eater gets out of just a 4 oz steak or 2 eggs, a vegan has to eat a comparable mountain. (Again, based on absorption rates from input/output studies). He also highly recommended eggs and milk in general and tried to convince vegans to go vegetarian at least to ease his conscious. But, that was the Animal nutrition professor. He made a point of saying he hated fad diets and preferred studies that were as scientifically based as possible. He got into several fights with the social/humanities department nutritionist who recommended all her students go gluten free and vegetarian if possible unless they had blood type ** because "those people do need meat."

It's kinda a crap chute sometimes. I just eat what makes me feel good. Junk food and lots of sugar make me feel like a crap popsicle. Meat and spinach and fruits and veggies make me feel alert and healthy and allow me to keep my crazy schedule. No meat at all and I get very pale and lethargic in days. My white count also plummets and I get ill very quickly. If I'm on my period it's many times worse.