RANT HERE thread

[killerleaf]

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When I first got Max, my chinese crested, I belonged to a forum for CC's. There were a few on there that were adamant that a 3 year protocol (with titers each year) were sufficient, and were lobbying for legislation. There was a DVM leading the charge, but I can't remember her name. I do remember that the arguments sounded logical; and I even toyed with the idea for Max. (because he reacts to the vaccine every time) However, we do board him, and it is a requirement, so he gets his every year. We have learned to give him a benedryl before we leave the house, and another when we get home, and he usually does ok with just minor issues.

 

[WildZoo]

True. Especially cause cats can be free roaming, and are way more likely than a dog to come in contact with a rabid animal.

In the US, cases of rabies in cats have exceeded those in dogs every year since 1981

 

[SkiOtter]

Whoa! Good to know. Thank you!

Some only get 20% because of tax laws. Still a nice discount, but didn’t want you to expect a 50% discount wherever you go!

 

[Caiter92]

In the US, cases of rabies in cats have exceeded those in dogs every year since 1981

Figured, but was too lazy to look it up

But clearly we don’t need to vaccinate cats still... nope, we don’t need to worry about them at all...

 

[WildZoo]

Some only get 20% because of tax laws. Still a nice discount, but didn’t want you to expect a 50% discount wherever you go!

We get 20%

 

[SkiOtter]

We get 20%

Yeah we do too

 

[that redhead]

Chiming I’m on bordatella- previous clinic had oral and intranasal and I always chose oral. A little Kong paste in the end of the squeeze-bulb and you’re done. New clinic has IN and I don’t like it as much- sure, I can sneak it but most times they sneeze a whole bunch back out at me and I have to wonder if the owners think “OK, so what’s the point of that?!” We also do IN FVRCP which I completely understand but hate more than just about anything.

As for vaccinating through the animal...I’ll usually say, “Well, now the table is safe from rabies!” and that’s enough to make them laugh and I don’t feel like as much of an idiot.

 

[vetmedhead]

We also do IN FVRCP which I completely understand but hate more than just about anything.

My cat agrees with you

 

[Caiter92]

Our school has started using IN vaccines for cats. I asked the clinician why during the vaccine lecture, when it’s going to be so much more stressful for cats compared to a regular vaccine, not to mention fractious cats. She told me she didn’t see why it would be anymore stressful. One and only time I’ve ever asked a question during a lecture and I just had to smile and nod because I had many thoughts I couldn’t share lol

 

[Trilt]

Our school has started using IN vaccines for cats. I asked the clinician why during the vaccine lecture, when it’s going to be so much more stressful for cats compared to a regular vaccine, not to mention fractious cats. She told me she didn’t see why it would be anymore stressful. One and only time I’ve ever asked a question during a lecture and I just had to smile and nod because I had many thoughts I couldn’t share lol

Ah yes most cats enjoy water boarding you see~

 

[Trilt]

We use IN bord. I find many dogs respond well to covering their eyes and petting with one hand while sneaking it up a nostril with other.

 

[WildZoo]

Our school has started using IN vaccines for cats. I asked the clinician why during the vaccine lecture, when it’s going to be so much more stressful for cats compared to a regular vaccine, not to mention fractious cats. She told me she didn’t see why it would be anymore stressful. One and only time I’ve ever asked a question during a lecture and I just had to smile and nod because I had many thoughts I couldn’t share lol

So many things I've never heard of - oral bordetella?? IN FVRCP???
I imagine the latter is because of the injection site sarcoma issue?

 

[Caiter92]

So many things I've never heard of - oral bordetella?? IN FVRCP???
I imagine the latter is because of the injection site sarcoma issue?

Muscosal immune response, but also I think injection site sarcomas are also a reason why school is using them. Which is why our oncologist was so against vaccinating cats period. But like, it’s what? A 1 in 10,000+ chance? Unless they have a relative with it, then it goes up because there is generic component.

I’m going to obey the law and not get my cats head cut off when they bite someone, k thanks.

 

[WildZoo]

Muscosal immune response, but also I think injection site sarcomas are also a reason why school is using them. Which is also why our oncologist was so against vaccinating cats period. But like, it’s what? A 1 in 10,000+ chance? Unless they have a relative with it, then it goes up because there is generic component.

I’m going to obey the law and not get my cats head cut off when they bite someone, k thanks.

Damn, I had the mucosal immune response part in there too and then decided that was probably less of a thing. That'll teach me to change my answers.

I though incidence of ISS was going down with the newer vaccines too but
Mucosal immunity makes sense although I thought I remembered it doesn't last as long?

 

[Caiter92]

Damn, I had the mucosal immune response part in there too and then decided that was probably less of a thing. That'll teach me to change my answers.

I though incidence of ISS was going down with the newer vaccines too but
Mucosal immunity makes sense although I thought I remembered it doesn't last as long?

It is going down, and seems to be mostly associated with highly adjuvented vaccines. And Merial will pay for treatment if you’ve only ever vaccinated your cat with their vaccines (plus also give a set amount of money if Merial have been all their vaccines for a length of time even if they had others).

Yeah, IN is only 1 year instead of 3 for injectable. And costs the same at school. But it’s def not a money thing 😛

 

[battie]

In the US, cases of rabies in cats have exceeded those in dogs every year since 1981

**** I didn't know that I didn't know.

I’m going to obey the law and not get my cats head cut off when they bite someone, k thanks.

I work in our diagnostic lab and it's crazy how many dogs get sent to our lab for rabies testing, even with up-to-date rabies vax. And a ton of the cases are (to me) obvious human doing something, being unaware of the dog's behavior, and the dog paying the price. I honestly don't really think there's a difference here. It seems that if anything bites anyone, it gets sent to us for testing regardless of vaccine status.

 

[ajs513]

So many things I've never heard of - oral bordetella?? IN FVRCP???
I imagine the latter is because of the injection site sarcoma issue?

Oral bordetella has been around for a while I think, but has only recently become “good.” From studies I read the other day when I posted about this, it looks like they used to be less effective but now seem to be equally as effective as IN or SC. They’re also super easy to give, especially if they’re flavored like some are. And if you have an angry dog and you’re brave you can just snipe it in their mouth when they open it to try and murder you. Done that a few more times than I would’ve liked.

 

[Caiter92]

**** I didn't know that I didn't know.



I work in our diagnostic lab and it's crazy how many dogs get sent to our lab for rabies testing, even with up-to-date rabies vax. And a ton of the cases are (to me) obvious human doing something, being unaware of the dog's behavior, and the dog paying the price. I honestly don't really think there's a difference here. It seems that if anything bites anyone, it gets sent to us for testing regardless of vaccine status.

That’s really weird. At least in WA, if they’re up to date on vax, you can usually just quarantine at home. Unless they did have a possible rabies exposure, and then it’s more tricky.

But also sometimes people get jumpy and decide to submit for testing anyway. We had a client do that when their cat started developing neuro signs over a month after a minor bite had occurred. If I remember correctly, that behavior hadn’t been out of the ordinary for the cat either.

 

[ajs513]

That’s really weird. At least in WA, if they’re up to date on vax, you can usually just quarantine at home. Unless they did have a possible rabies exposure, and then it’s more tricky.

That’s a state by state thing. In NJ, we require a 10 day loose quarantine of animals that bite someone if they’re UTD on rabies. Essentially it just means you can’t take them anywhere that they could transmit rabies to other animals or people, so just keep them in your house and yard.

 

[Caiter92]

That’s a state by state thing. In NJ, we require a 10 day loose quarantine of animals that bite someone if they’re UTD on rabies. Essentially it just means you can’t take them anywhere that they could transmit rabies to other animals or people, so just keep them in your house and yard.

It’s the same in WA.

 

[battie]

That’s really weird. At least in WA, if they’re up to date on vax, you can usually just quarantine at home. Unless they did have a possible rabies exposure, and then it’s more tricky.

But also sometimes people get jumpy and decide to submit for testing anyway. We had a client do that when their cat started developing neuro signs over a month after a minor bite had occurred. If I remember correctly, that behavior hadn’t been out of the ordinary for the cat either.

I honestly should know what the rules are cause we have had a lecture on it, I'm pretty sure. It might have been during my black hole months last fall, though.

I'm wondering if Illinois requires veterinary quarantine rather than just house arrest quarantine. That would get pretty pricey.

 

[Caiter92]

I honestly should know what the rules are cause we have had a lecture on it, I'm pretty sure. It might have been during my black hole months last fall, though.

I'm wondering if Illinois requires veterinary quarantine rather than just house arrest quarantine. That would get pretty pricey.

WA is also a state with no terrestrial rabies variants, so that could be why it’s a little more lenient here.

 

[battie]

WA is also a state with no terrestrial rabies variants, so that could be why it’s a little more lenient on it.

I know there's concern in the skunks cause we aren't allowed to have them (or bats) in the wildlife clinic. We're paranoid about everything with teeth though. There was a thing about a "rabid" coyote that caused some issues at the beginning of the year (literally like week 6).

 

[WildZoo]

Some states don't have vaccination laws for dogs or cats (possibly Kansas, Missouri, and Ohio?)
https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Documents/Rabies state law chart.pdf


In TN if a currently vaccinated or overdue dog, cat, or ferret is exposed to a confirmed rabid animal, they get an immediatw booster and 45 day quarantine. If the dog/cat/ferret is unvaccinated, it's euthanasia or immediate vaccination and 4 months isolation.

For a dog/cat/ferret that bites someone, it's 10 day quarantine regardless of vaccination status, and if they need to be vaccinated that is done after those 10 days. You do have the option to euthanize and test. I think it is supposed to be quarantine at the vet in that case, not at home, which makes sense to me because you really should have a medical professional observing them for signs.

 

[WildZoo]

Why am I going down a rabies rabbit hole when I should be studying amphibians...amphibians don't get rabies, they only get Ranavirus and chytrid...

 

[WildZoo]

WA is also a state with no terrestrial rabies variants, so that could be why it’s a little more lenient here.

Bats are everywhere though...

 

[Caiter92]

Bats are everywhere though...

That’s not terrestrial rabies 😛

We only have bat rabies, but most states have terrestrial variants as well.

 

[ajs513]

That’s not terrestrial rabies 😛

We only have bat rabies, but most states have terrestrial variants as well.

Now that has me wondering, has there ever been a case of aquatic rabies? Can you imagine a rabid whale?

 

[WildZoo]

That’s not terrestrial rabies 😛

I know, I'm saying I don't see why it matters that it's not terrestrial 😛

 

[Caiter92]

I know, I'm saying I don't see why it matters that it's not terrestrial 😛

Because rabies cases in domestic animals are higher in those states.

 

[WildZoo]

Because rabies cases in domestic animals are higher in those states.

My brain is doing such weird things right now I don't know if I can even explain what my point was I need sleep

It does make sense that there would be more stringent rules in states that have higher risk of exposure, for sure.
I guess in my mind veterinary quarantine is more of a baseline than something super strict, but maybe I just think of it that way because I've always lived in states that are higher on the scale.

 

[katashark]

According to the newest edition of Marine Mammal Medicine, rabies has been diagnosed in 12 arctic foxes, 3 Svalbard reindeer, and a ringed seal. The seal was probably bitten by a fox. This may be the only reported case of rabies in seals. There is also only 1 report of rabies in a polar bear (which sounds terrifying). The impact of rabies infections in marine mammals is currently unknown.

 

[ajs513]

According to the newest edition of Marine Mammal Medicine, rabies has been diagnosed in 12 arctic foxes, 3 Svalbard reindeer, and a ringed seal. The seal was probably bitten by a fox. This may be the only reported case of rabies in seals. There is also only 1 report of rabies in a polar bear (which sounds terrifying). The impact of rabies infections in marine mammals is currently unknown.

Also it could take years for a whale to become clinical with a rabies infection since the virus moves up nerves very very slowly. So a bite to the tail would actually take years.

 

[vetmedhead]

For a dog/cat/ferret that bites someone, it's 10 day quarantine regardless of vaccination status, and if they need to be vaccinated that is done after those 10 days. You do have the option to euthanize and test. I think it is supposed to be quarantine at the vet in that case, not at home, which makes sense to me because you really should have a medical professional observing them for signs.

This is how we handle it in TX, and home quarantine is only available if animal is already vaccinated and the home is suitable for quarantine (things like having a fence, ability to keep animal away from others, etc). There was a state level training class for certified rabies control officers which allowed them to perform entrance and exit exams at the 0 and 10 day marks, so home quarantine was different from vet quarantine.

We frequently had owners select the euthanize and test option - this was almost always because their animal was unvaccinated (so was required to do quarantine either at our facility or at a veterinary clinic) and it was much cheaper to euth and test than it was to pay for boarding + vaccine being brought UTD + licensing fees + microchip (we required the last two if they didn't already have them).

 

[WildZoo]

According to the newest edition of Marine Mammal Medicine, rabies has been diagnosed in 12 arctic foxes, 3 Svalbard reindeer, and a ringed seal. The seal was probably bitten by a fox. This may be the only reported case of rabies in seals. There is also only 1 report of rabies in a polar bear (which sounds terrifying). The impact of rabies infections in marine mammals is currently unknown.

What if the rapid polar bear bit a whale?? Boom, whale rabies.

 

[ajs513]

What if the rapid polar bear bit a whale?? Boom, whale rabies.

...whabies

 

[vetmedhead]

...whabies

That wascally whabid wabbit

 

[WildZoo]

That wascally whabid wabbit

Wabbit season!

 

[SkiOtter]

I’m going to obey the law and not get my cats head cut off when they bite someone, k thanks.

Duh teach your cats not to bite 😛

That’s really weird. At least in WA, if they’re up to date on vax, you can usually just quarantine at home. Unless they did have a possible rabies exposure, and then it’s more tricky.

But also sometimes people get jumpy and decide to submit for testing anyway. We had a client do that when their cat started developing neuro signs over a month after a minor bite had occurred. If I remember correctly, that behavior hadn’t been out of the ordinary for the cat either.

Michigan you can quarantine 10 days too if they’re UTD on the vaccinate. Not sure if you can do it at home or if you have to do it at a vets office though. Not sure what the protocol is for unvaccinated animals.

I know there's concern in the skunks cause we aren't allowed to have them (or bats) in the wildlife clinic. We're paranoid about everything with teeth though. There was a thing about a "rabid" coyote that caused some issues at the beginning of the year (literally like week 6).

I feel like it was earlier than week 6 maybe because it was just so long ago hahaha

 

[JustPaws]

I honestly should know what the rules are cause we have had a lecture on it, I'm pretty sure. It might have been during my black hole months last fall, though.

I'm wondering if Illinois requires veterinary quarantine rather than just house arrest quarantine. That would get pretty pricey.

Unless something has changed in the last 3 years since I lived in Chicago, it's 10 days in-home quarantine with exam on D1 and D10 for vaccinated animals OR 10 day in-hospital observation with exam on D1 and D10 for an un-vaccinated animal. Not sure if state-wide or Chicago-land region only.

 

[WeimMama]

Has anyone seen the social media BS lynch mob that is forming against a practice in Missouri? I've been kind of creeping along with it and I'm 1000% disgusted by humans right now -___-

 

[finnickthedog]

Has anyone seen the social media BS lynch mob that is forming against a practice in Missouri? I've been kind of creeping along with it and I'm 1000% disgusted by humans right now -___-

I am not familiar with this. What's goin' on?

 

[ajs513]

Has anyone seen the social media BS lynch mob that is forming against a practice in Missouri? I've been kind of creeping along with it and I'm 1000% disgusted by humans right now -___-

This one? https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox2no...nized-after-biting-veterinary-technician/amp/

 

[WeimMama]

This one? https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox2no...nized-after-biting-veterinary-technician/amp/

Yup its that.

I am not familiar with this. What's goin' on?

See above.... sorry that's literally how great my brain is functioning right now, to not even post a link. Stayed up FOUR EFFING HOURS after my swing shift thinking about it/reading **** on fbook, finally went to sleep and DREAMED ABOUT IT, and then woke up thinking about it.

This is probably tied with idiots on the fbook weim groups giving wrong medical advice (that i can't go anything about cause i'm not tryna risk my license by giving medical advice via the interwebs to someone i dont know) for the worst impacts on my mental health in this field. Every damn time I see one of these idiotic, horrible, ill-informed, cruel social media mobs for I get SO ANXIOUS. I cannot even imagine what the people who actually work there are going through.

 

[ajs513]

Yup its that.


See above.... sorry that's literally how great my brain is functioning right now, to not even post a link. Stayed up FOUR EFFING HOURS after my swing shift thinking about it/reading **** on fbook, finally went to sleep and DREAMED ABOUT IT, and then woke up thinking about it.

This is probably tied with idiots on the fbook weim groups giving wrong medical advice (that i can't go anything about cause i'm not tryna risk my license by giving medical advice via the interwebs to someone i dont know) for the worst impacts on my mental health in this field. Every damn time I see one of these idiotic, horrible, ill-informed, cruel social media mobs for I get SO ANXIOUS. I cannot even imagine what the people who actually work there are going through.

It’s horrible. People want a feel-good story so badly that they’re willing to crucify a hospital because they euthanized a possibly rabid dog. I was 12 years old when a kitten I found had to be euthanized because it had a bite mark on its head. Things happen. You can’t save EVERY animal. It’s just a fact of life. We just started a contract with a rescue and I warned my doctor to be very cautious and careful, because the second something happens that they don’t understand they can be very quick to try to destroy you.

 

[finnickthedog]

Yup its that.


See above.... sorry that's literally how great my brain is functioning right now, to not even post a link. Stayed up FOUR EFFING HOURS after my swing shift thinking about it/reading **** on fbook, finally went to sleep and DREAMED ABOUT IT, and then woke up thinking about it.

This is probably tied with idiots on the fbook weim groups giving wrong medical advice (that i can't go anything about cause i'm not tryna risk my license by giving medical advice via the interwebs to someone i dont know) for the worst impacts on my mental health in this field. Every damn time I see one of these idiotic, horrible, ill-informed, cruel social media mobs for I get SO ANXIOUS. I cannot even imagine what the people who actually work there are going through.

I have no words.

 

[WildZoo]

Things people probably don't understand
- There is no antemortem test for rabies
- The only way to suspect it is based on clinical signs and history of exposure
- There is no treatment for rabies once clinical signs begin
- There are legal requirements to follow rabies protocols

Everybody is like "her symptoms could have been due to x, y, z!" and yeah, they could have, and that sucks, but there's no way to know. You don't just wait and watch on a dog that has bitten someone and is showing neurologic signs...how many staff members should risk exposure on that chance? It's absurd.

 

[DVMDream]

Things people probably don't understand
- There is no antemortem test for rabies
- The only way to suspect it is based on clinical signs and history of exposure
- There is no treatment for rabies once clinical signs begin
- There are legal requirements to follow rabies protocols

Everybody is like "her symptoms could have been due to x, y, z!" and yeah, they could have, and that sucks, but there's no way to know. You don't just wait and watch on a dog that has bitten someone and is showing neurologic signs...how many staff members should risk exposure on that chance? It's absurd.

But they should've muzzled the dog (that was apparently in respiratory distress) because yanno muzzles magically fall into place and there's no way to get bit with a muzzle on..... oh wait, that just happened to me in November. ... people are stupid.

 

[ajs513]

Things people probably don't understand
- There is no antemortem test for rabies
- The only way to suspect it is based on clinical signs and history of exposure
- There is no treatment for rabies once clinical signs begin
- There are legal requirements to follow rabies protocols

Everybody is like "her symptoms could have been due to x, y, z!" and yeah, they could have, and that sucks, but there's no way to know. You don't just wait and watch on a dog that has bitten someone and is showing neurologic signs...how many staff members should risk exposure on that chance? It's absurd.

Even veterinarians understand the notion that human life is, at the end of the day, most important. Yet apparently that means they’re heartless.

 

[Caiter92]

Things people probably don't understand
- There is no antemortem test for rabies
- The only way to suspect it is based on clinical signs and history of exposure
- There is no treatment for rabies once clinical signs begin
- There are legal requirements to follow rabies protocols

Everybody is like "her symptoms could have been due to x, y, z!" and yeah, they could have, and that sucks, but there's no way to know. You don't just wait and watch on a dog that has bitten someone and is showing neurologic signs...how many staff members should risk exposure on that chance? It's absurd.

The worst part of this is it’s the freaking rescue that threw the clinic under the bus and was telling people to call them and AC and tell them not to euthanize her.