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WildZoo said:
Jesus christ. If she's that worried about it, she could have hired someone temporarily to help while you're on maternity leave...I'm sure there are people who would jump at that opportunity.
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We all thought that she'd get a temp vet, but she's making my coworker cover my schedule (which includes Saturdays) which did not go over well. I guess there is no budget, and the last time they had a temp vet in that vet had some personal issues that prevented her from working for more than a few days. So she just doesn't want to go down that road again.
WildZoo said:
Yes because for whatever reason it's not uncommon for women in higher level positions to decide to be ****ty to other women. You're not the first person I've heard from that specifically had issues with a female boss (even one who has kids...) around being pregnant. It's extra awful.
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I'm basically the guinea pig for my other coworker who just got married and may want to have kids. She's literally seeing how it goes for me. At least my job will be protected with my FMLA but with how difficult it's been on this team, I'm not sure what I'll be coming back to. I've had to fight tooth and nail to get primary on maybe 15% of the animals in this zoo, I'm assuming I'll have to start from scratch when I come back. So then I naturally feel pressured to take the shortest leave possible, but then the other half of me doesn't want to do that for obvious reasons. I just feel like I'm flying in the dark here and I'm finally understanding what I was told about this by a vet I externed under back in the day. I didn't hear it then because I was like...25 or whatever and never thought I was going to have a kid, but now I'm like damn, we really haven't made the progress in this field that people like to say we have.
 
pp9 said:
We all thought that she'd get a temp vet, but she's making my coworker cover my schedule (which includes Saturdays) which did not go over well. I guess there is no budget, and the last time they had a temp vet in that vet had some personal issues that prevented her from working for more than a few days. So she just doesn't want to go down that road again.
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Ah this is kind of what happened with us recently. I covered the schedule in question (which was Sunday-Thursday), but I'm a resident so you know, we don't get to complain :laugh: But afaik the vet who was out on maternity leave was not made to feel guilty in any way. We redistributed her existing cases amongst ourselves and dealt with things being a bit hectic for a while. Everyone survived.

pp9 said:
I'm basically the guinea pig for my other coworker who just got married and may want to have kids. She's literally seeing how it goes for me. At least my job will be protected with my FMLA but with how difficult it's been on this team, I'm not sure what I'll be coming back to. I've had to fight tooth and nail to get primary on maybe 15% of the animals in this zoo, I'm assuming I'll have to start from scratch when I come back. So then I naturally feel pressured to take the shortest leave possible, but then the other half of me doesn't want to do that for obvious reasons. I just feel like I'm flying in the dark here and I'm finally understanding what I was told about this by a vet I externed under back in the day. I didn't hear it then because I was like...25 or whatever and never thought I was going to have a kid, but now I'm like damn, we really haven't made the progress in this field that people like to say we have.
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This is very much a side thing but just because this statement made me curious, how do you guys go about assigning cases?
Here each day we have a specific vet on scheduled procedures and a specific vet on receiving new/urgent cases, so outside of a few very high profile critters or existing chronic things, it tends to spread out the caseload.
 
WildZoo said:
This is very much a side thing but just because this statement made me curious, how do you guys go about assigning cases?
Here each day we have a specific vet on scheduled procedures and a specific vet on receiving new/urgent cases, so outside of a few very high profile critters or existing chronic things, it tends to spread out the caseload.
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This is exactly what most zoos do!

I think I've been through only one other zoo that has done it the way we do it. We work in silos. So each species/group or area/building has a primary vet. Obviously if an emergency comes up on that vet's weekend/PTO, we deal with it, otherwise for the most part we don't see or hear about the animals we aren't primary on. My team/one vet in particular takes it to an extreme though, it gets to the point where the other vets aren't even looped in on communications for the areas they aren't 'primary' on, so others are truly in the dark. And when you pair that with some people being unable to get medical records written in a timely manner (or at all...) it makes things really challenging.

Edit: Who schedules your procedures, though? When we have talked about transitioning to something like this, the team has a meltdown about how to schedule the vets' each day, and who would schedule procedures. Because at the end of the day, people would just schedule their procedures on days they are the procedure vet and nothing would really change. A few zoos I've been through have a hospital manager schedule the procedures and make the tech/vet duty schedule (we have similar issues with our techs - one avoids all lab work and does most of the training, for example). We don't have a hospital manager but want one eventually.
 
purpleeventer said:
I was JUST reading through that thread.

How anyone could genuinely think they could forgo a basic requirement applying to such competitive programs is completely beyond me. It’s even more concerning that they are supposedly a full-fledged adult.
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It's common. Many people think they're the exception to the rules
 
pp9 said:
This is exactly what most zoos do!

I think I've been through only one other zoo that has done it the way we do it. We work in silos. So each species/group or area/building has a primary vet. Obviously if an emergency comes up on that vet's weekend/PTO, we deal with it, otherwise for the most part we don't see or hear about the animals we aren't primary on. My team/one vet in particular takes it to an extreme though, it gets to the point where the other vets aren't even looped in on communications for the areas they aren't 'primary' on, so others are truly in the dark. And when you pair that with some people being unable to get medical records written in a timely manner (or at all...) it makes things really challenging.

Edit: Who schedules your procedures, though? When we have talked about transitioning to something like this, the team has a meltdown about how to schedule the vets' each day, and who would schedule procedures. Because at the end of the day, people would just schedule their procedures on days they are the procedure vet and nothing would really change. A few zoos I've been through have a hospital manager schedule the procedures and make the tech/vet duty schedule (we have similar issues with our techs - one avoids all lab work and does most of the training, for example). We don't have a hospital manager but want one eventually.
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Man that would make me so sad. I love the variety.

We have a hospital manager, he schedules procedures and makes the on call schedule and the tech schedule. Generally if one vet has done an initial evaluation of a case because of it coming up on one of their receiving days, or it's one of the cases they've been managing long-term, he will try to schedule procedures on that vet's procedure day (or their secondary desk day...or their desk day if desperate and the vet is okay with it), but the urgency of the procedure is also taken into consideration, so there is some flexibility there. Prev med exams are scheduled where there is space, regardless of who has seen them previously. There is some amount of preference in terms of a couple individuals having more expertise with very specific species, but I can only think of a small handful where that is the case (one vet does 80-90% of pinniped anesthetic procedures for example). Of course some of the curators have their own preferences with who they trust most...this I feel ends up being a thing most often with elephants and great apes. Here and there they can request something be scheduled with a specific vet if it isn't urgent and the schedule can accommodate it. And there are definitely particular groups where one vet oversees herd management-type things. But especially with new issues you get whoever is on receiving that day and it's very rare for that rule to be broken. I've only really seen it happen if the receiving vet is already slammed and someone else steps in to help.

I think in transitioning from your current model to something more like that, you're right things would take a little while to change. But eventually with each vet only having a couple receiving days a week, new cases would get spread out. We also are all included on all communications (email summaries sent to hospital staff and the keepers for the relevant area) in addition to having a group active case list that we review once a week as a team, and then also review with the area curators the next day. Each morning we all go through cases we're planning to see for the day. So we're all fairly up to speed on each other's stuff.

Techs also rotate through lab vs procedures vs ...idk what they call it but more of an "office" day where they are the one filling scripts and doing other tasks around the hospital in addition to their own paperwork and things. Usually whoever is on office and whoever is on procedures will tag team other treatments or training sessions. We have a lab tech now so she does that primarily during the week, and the others usually only end up doing lab stuff if she is busy doing EEHV stuff or it's the weekend.
 
WildZoo said:
Man that would make me so sad. I love the variety.

We have a hospital manager, he schedules procedures and makes the on call schedule and the tech schedule. Generally if one vet has done an initial evaluation of a case because of it coming up on one of their receiving days, or it's one of the cases they've been managing long-term, he will try to schedule procedures on that vet's procedure day (or their secondary desk day...or their desk day if desperate and the vet is okay with it), but the urgency of the procedure is also taken into consideration, so there is some flexibility there. Prev med exams are scheduled where there is space, regardless of who has seen them previously. There is some amount of preference in terms of a couple individuals having more expertise with very specific species, but I can only think of a small handful where that is the case (one vet does 80-90% of pinniped anesthetic procedures for example). Of course some of the curators have their own preferences with who they trust most...this I feel ends up being a thing most often with elephants and great apes. Here and there they can request something be scheduled with a specific vet if it isn't urgent and the schedule can accommodate it. And there are definitely particular groups where one vet oversees herd management-type things. But especially with new issues you get whoever is on receiving that day and it's very rare for that rule to be broken. I've only really seen it happen if the receiving vet is already slammed and someone else steps in to help.

I think in transitioning from your current model to something more like that, you're right things would take a little while to change. But eventually with each vet only having a couple receiving days a week, new cases would get spread out. We also are all included on all communications (email summaries sent to hospital staff and the keepers for the relevant area) in addition to having a group active case list that we review once a week as a team, and then also review with the area curators the next day. Each morning we all go through cases we're planning to see for the day. So we're all fairly up to speed on each other's stuff.

Techs also rotate through lab vs procedures vs ...idk what they call it but more of an "office" day where they are the one filling scripts and doing other tasks around the hospital in addition to their own paperwork and things. Usually whoever is on office and whoever is on procedures will tag team other treatments or training sessions. We have a lab tech now so she does that primarily during the week, and the others usually only end up doing lab stuff if she is busy doing EEHV stuff or it's the weekend.
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I know, the variety is the whole point. Plus, even though no one wants to share, we've all expressed anxieties about being alone and having to emergently anesthetize something we either haven't anesthetized in years, or haven't ever. So you'd think we'd all be on board, but nope.

I do wonder if a hospital manager would solve a lot of our problems. As well as having a leader who actually, you know, lead.
 
apoptosis09 said:
Ngl I have seen applicants with 0 (or near 0) vet hours get in.
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Yeaaaaahhh I had a classmate like that…. And tbh I think it is such a disservice to them and the field bc they truly did not spend time exploring the field and there’s just not a lot of free time in school to fully delve into all the options if your that unfamiliar with everything. My classmate told me during clinical year that it wasn’t fair that I knew what I wanted to practice in before starting school (she was trying to change her track and clinical schedule for like the 3rd time and got told no). The mental gymnastics were wild and exhausting.
 
mkg323 said:
Yeaaaaahhh I had a classmate like that…. And tbh I think it is such a disservice to them and the field bc they truly did not spend time exploring the field and there’s just not a lot of free time in school to fully delve into all the options if your that unfamiliar with everything. My classmate told me during clinical year that it wasn’t fair that I knew what I wanted to practice in before starting school (she was trying to change her track and clinical schedule for like the 3rd time and got told no). The mental gymnastics were wild and exhausting.
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apoptosis09 said:
Ngl I have seen applicants with 0 (or near 0) vet hours get in.
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But also, these applicants are still getting at least a LOR from a vet somehow to qualify for consideration (unless it's VMCVM apparently). So are these people coming in with primarily research backgrounds? There was at least one person in my class that had not step foot in a clinic setting until vet school, she came from a research-heavy background and worked under a DVM in a lab setting. Which is considered veterinary experience then, although not the 'veterinary experience' that first comes to mind.

Yes, that could be considered a disservice to yourself, but if you don't want to be a clinical vet, is it really that different than those of us that didn't get food animal experience because we didn't want to be food animal vets? Idk, devil's advocate. I'm not well versed in how competitive it is to end up in a research setting. I wouldn't feel the same if someone applied solely because their only goal in life was zoo med, which we know is generally unlikely for probably 90% of people who say that's what they want to do.
 
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pp9 said:
I know, the variety is the whole point. Plus, even though no one wants to share, we've all expressed anxieties about being alone and having to emergently anesthetize something we either haven't anesthetized in years, or haven't ever. So you'd think we'd all be on board, but nope.

I do wonder if a hospital manager would solve a lot of our problems. As well as having a leader who actually, you know, lead.
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Yeah that absolutely makes sense! I'm also not sure if this is a typical thing and I'm sure it also depends on staffing, but usually for larger procedures with species that are done less frequently, we have as many hands on deck as possible so everyone can brush up on stuff. So like I mentioned the one vet leads on pinnipeds most of the time but often there's another staff vet or two (plus me) there to help and learn. Same with giraffes, and it's generally protocol to have at least two vets present for great apes whenever possible.

Having a hospital manager is great! I really appreciate being able to be like "hey can you find somewhere to put this on the schedule" and then not have to worry about it myself. Plus since he does the tech schedules too it makes it easier to figure out stuff like where we can have overlapping procedures vs where that would be difficult to accommodate.
 
pp9 said:
But also, these applicants are still getting at least a LOR from a vet somehow to qualify for consideration (unless it's VMCVM apparently). So are these people coming in with primarily research backgrounds? There was at least one person in my class that had not step foot in a clinic setting until vet school, she came from a research-heavy background and worked under a DVM in a lab setting. Which is considered veterinary experience then, although not the 'veterinary experience' that first comes to mind.

Yes, that could be considered a disservice to yourself, but if you don't want to be a clinical vet, is it really that different than those of us that didn't get food animal experience because we didn't want to be food animal vets? Idk, devil's advocate. I'm not well versed in how competitive it is to end up in a research setting. I wouldn't feel the same if someone applied solely because their only goal in life was zoo med, which we know is generally unlikely for probably 90% of people who say that's what they want to do.
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She did have a PhD and came from a job doing research however it was unrelated to animals nor under a vet. She had a nonzero but less than 50 hours at a clinic that let’s just say was not an animal handling position. She wanted to practice clinical medicine and was clear from the first day that she wanted to pursue a very competitive specialty, to the point that I got to know her bc she was looking at doing the large animal track of said specialty bc she thought it was “less competitive” in terms of internship years it took to get a residency spot. She’d also flip flop and make five year plans for other specialties whenever a new clinician came in to lecture, and at one point half way through school considered dropping out to pursue a different professional degree all together. my suspicion is that if she had proper hours before applying she either wouldn’t have applied, or at the least would have had a more pleasant/less neurotic vet school experience because she’d have at least a vague idea of what she did or didn’t like.
 
Going back to this:

pp9 said:
boss telling me how 'there wasn't really a good time for me to have a baby' and 'I guess we'll just see how this goes for us while you're gone.' Like cool as if I already wasn't worried enough about my career and longevity at this place before I became pregnant...
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There's never a good time for a business for someone to have a baby no different than if someone was sick for a long time. And therefore you treat it the same. And the benefit of pregnancy is they get a heads up.

pp9 said:
ut then the other half of me doesn't want to do that for obvious reasons
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I hella regret not taking the extra time. I thought I needed to come back quickly as the baby doctor on staff. Nah dog. Take your time. That woman has been a doc for 25 years and doing okay. So will you.
 
ack I just checked r/prevets and the first thing I saw was someone essentially saying that they're considering vet med because human med seems too hard. Also, they don't really like animals that much but maybe they'll grow to like them.
 
purpleeventer said:
ack I just checked r/prevets and the first thing I saw was someone essentially saying that they're considering vet med because human med seems too hard. Also, they don't really like animals that much but maybe they'll grow to like them.
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Well let's not discourage them from finding out for themselves 😂
 
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purpleeventer said:
you were a lot nicer than I was
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i try to be because the entire point of the sub was to add another place of support.

but sometimes i just have to walk away bc i feel like i’m being rage baited (ie: i dont need a vet LOR because i’m older than these 21year olds and my career will set me apart)
 
purpleeventer said:
ack I just checked r/prevets and the first thing I saw was someone essentially saying that they're considering vet med because human med seems too hard. Also, they don't really like animals that much but maybe they'll grow to like them.
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Animated GIF
 
soupshark said:
Yes but if you read the thread you will know what we are talking about. This is a very different story
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I saw it after and left a comment lol. I can see where they were coming from; I was also in a position of being nontrad and struggling to find hours around my FT career. However, I suspect OP was told "leverage the strengths of your nontrad background to set you apart" and heard "you don't need any vet hours because you have a prior career" 😅

Ah well. Some people need to find things out for themselves ig.
 
apoptosis09 said:
I saw it after and left a comment lol. I can see where they were coming from; I was also in a position of being nontrad and struggling to find hours around my FT career. However, I suspect OP was told "leverage the strengths of your nontrad background to set you apart" and heard "you don't need and vet hours because you have a prior career" 😅

Ah well. Some people need to find things out for themselves ig.
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Yea I told them to apply and see what happens lmao
 
apoptosis09 said:
leverage the strengths of your nontrad background to set you apart" and heard "you don't need and vet hours because you have a prior career"
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i fear this may be it because if they spoke to the schools i suspect they spoke to (also calling them mid and top tier was red flag #1 because that’s just not a real thing in our field), then all of them require an LOR from a vet and i doubt they said explicitly “you dont need one. only use experiences and references from your previous career” as they claim they were told.
 
vampyrica said:
i fear this may be it because if they spoke to the schools i suspect they spoke to (also calling them mid and top tier was red flag #1 because that’s just not a real thing in our field), then all of them require an LOR from a vet and i doubt they said explicitly “you dont need one. only use experiences and references from your previous career” as they claim they were told.
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Yea the way they responded was making me think they were saying whatever they needed to to win this argument instead of just being honest and accepting everyone's advice. I really don't get the point of asking for advice if you are really just looking for validation. Honestly I think they made that post so people would comment and tell them how amazing they are.
 
purpleeventer said:
ack I just checked r/prevets and the first thing I saw was someone essentially saying that they're considering vet med because human med seems too hard. Also, they don't really like animals that much but maybe they'll grow to like them.
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i just went and looked it up and it has to be rage bait i can't

gathering a bunch of animal lovers to be like "i don't care about animals.. should i do it?" no. no you shouldn't. i don't see how you can not like animals and put yourself through this LMFAO i guess it's been done before but why would you
 
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IMG_1770.jpeg
I’m not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but today is the one year anniversary of my baby Poe passing. I just wanted to share his story.

I got him in 2021 with another budgie to have as little companions after a traumatic move cross country during covid out of an abusive work environment. I chose him for his pretty yellow color and little raggedy primaries. After he never grew in normal looking feathers, I took him to the vet for a workup and he got diagnoses with psittacine beak and feather disease. They acted like he was going to drop dead the next day.

But despite being extremely shy, he was a little fighter and his buddy Finn loved and doted on him. He started declining in 2024, losing more feathers after staying steady for 3 years. But one morning in December, he had a neurological event (I think a stroke) and I remember feeling so helpless, watching him actively crash on me and grappling with the indecision of do I take him to an ER I didn’t know that may not have the equipment or knowledge of how to help him, or take him to his avian vet an hour away.

In the end, I ended up speeding down the toll road during rush hour traffic, Poe in a makeshift nest of towels and my heat blasting. Somehow he made it there, and the wonderful technicians stabilized him.

Poe ended up living another month and a half before he ultimately passed away. I still tear up thinking about him, and his last night with me. It was a powerful lesson in it is better to be a day too early than a day too late. I hold a lot of regrets from his last night, since he ended on a bad night.

But little Poe was my inspiration for deciding to pursue veterinary medicine. I want to be an advocate for the little animals that are so easily purchased from pet stores and give them the highest quality of care I can. And even if I become just one more vet that is able to help just one budgie, to prevent their owner having to drive an hour away during an emergency, I feel like I will have succeeded.

Cheers to you Poe baby. Thank you for giving me so much light and for being such an inspiration. 💛
 
I'm frustrated with how my schools takes care of its large animals. I live in a state that historically stays fairly warm year round, maybe dipping into the 40s a few days a year, but we're getting hit pretty harshly right now with the cold, and especially wind (feels like according to weather app was 9 degrees last night!) My school has a lotttt of farm space with lots of horses, cows, sheep, and goats, and I've noticed they're outside what seems like all the time, with either no shelter available, or not enough depending on the farm. My classmate brought this up last year and was told "the animals up north can handle it, so can these ones", but these aren't animals from the north, these are animals who are used to the heat, and this winter is way worse than last year. I've heard some not so great things from other students about how the large animals are treated here, not consistently, but just stuff happening that was preventable, so I'm not super confident that my school is doing the best they can for these guys. I'm debating going to the dean to see if there's anything more to be done for them, but I want to see what y'all have to say about it because maybe I'm overthinking this.

PS y'all convinced me to redownload reddit, I want to see the drama lol
 
gettingthere234 said:
I'm frustrated with how my schools takes care of its large animals. I live in a state that historically stays fairly warm year round, maybe dipping into the 40s a few days a year, but we're getting hit pretty harshly right now with the cold, and especially wind (feels like according to weather app was 9 degrees last night!) My school has a lotttt of farm space with lots of horses, cows, sheep, and goats, and I've noticed they're outside what seems like all the time, with either no shelter available, or not enough depending on the farm. My classmate brought this up last year and was told "the animals up north can handle it, so can these ones", but these aren't animals from the north, these are animals who are used to the heat, and this winter is way worse than last year. I've heard some not so great things from other students about how the large animals are treated here, not consistently, but just stuff happening that was preventable, so I'm not super confident that my school is doing the best they can for these guys. I'm debating going to the dean to see if there's anything more to be done for them, but I want to see what y'all have to say about it because maybe I'm overthinking this.

PS y'all convinced me to redownload reddit, I want to see the drama lol
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I’d say it’s hard to offer advice about something like this without seeing things in person and having more information. But in general, as long as livestock have access to forage and a windbreak they’re usually fine. I’d potentially ask some of the large animal house officers or faculty members what their thoughts are (using a curiosity/learning perspective, not accusatory) before escalating up and reporting to the dean, especially if you’re coming from a more small animal background and don’t have much practical experience with livestock husbandry. Maybe they’re fine, maybe they’re not, but there’s plenty of people at a vet school who should be experts to consult.
 
JaynaAli said:
I’d say it’s hard to offer advice about something like this without seeing things in person and having more information. But in general, as long as livestock have access to forage and a windbreak they’re usually fine. I’d potentially ask some of the large animal house officers or faculty members what their thoughts are (using a curiosity/learning perspective, not accusatory) before escalating up and reporting to the dean, especially if you’re coming from a more small animal background and don’t have much practical experience with livestock husbandry. Maybe they’re fine, maybe they’re not, but there’s plenty of people at a vet school who should be experts to consult.
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Thank you! I don't have much knowledge about large animal husbandry, which is why I wanted to come on here to see if I was overthinking it. My main concern was the lack of a windbreak in some of the farms, but most farms do have at least one, so I feel better after reading your comment. I will see if I can stop by the LA building tomorrow to ask about it (non-accusatory of course). I am genuinely curious and open to learning about this, so hopefully I learn some new stuff and stop worrying so much about them.
 
vampyrica said:
i fear this may be it because if they spoke to the schools i suspect they spoke to (also calling them mid and top tier was red flag #1 because that’s just not a real thing in our field), then all of them require an LOR from a vet and i doubt they said explicitly “you dont need one. only use experiences and references from your previous career” as they claim they were told.
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Because I asked what schools and they refused to answer….
 
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vampyrica said:
IM BEING RAGE BAITED AGAIN !! I CANNOT ESCAPE IT 😭😭😭😭😭😭
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what’s ragebaiting you?

i will go first, i just saw a tik tok of someone saying there’s not enough of a market for specialties in vet med. .. i .. what. i would have sure liked that to be the case on some of the days i got stuck working 15 hour shifts in surgery from being overbooked.
 
fauna said:
what’s ragebaiting you?

i will go first, i just saw a tik tok of someone saying there’s not enough of a market for specialties in vet med. .. i .. what. i would have sure liked that to be the case on some of the days i got stuck working 15 hour shifts in surgery from being overbooked.
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Is that why all of our departments book out months in advance with people begging to be on the same day cancellation list
 
apoptosis09 said:
I would say white monster with 3 shots of espresso. But I feel like that may not be advisable in your particular situation 😅
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Big sad I can only have 150mg of caffeine per day. Two more weeks until I can chug energy drinks again 🥰🥰🥰
 
stinkyfreddy said:
any tips on preference for living alone vs w roommates as an incoming 1st year??
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I generally recommend having vet student roommates, especially who are in later years. Unless you know you hate living with roommates or you have complicating factors (a bunch of pets, for example), then it's not only much cheaper usually but also can be nice to have people who have been through the fire already to give advice, etc. It's pretty typical for vet students to split a house between like 3-5 students 😅
 
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