cardamom23
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Teething and growing. That good ol 6-8 month mark
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He’s 7 months 🤣
lol for real. I also had not spoken to the classmate that was on overnight tx with me on equine med and we are still buds. Something about chasing a loose horse around the ward really sets the foundation for a friendship
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gobears2022
WSU c/o 2029
Update: I finally got the disbursement notification for this loan. The money will not hit my account until next week - 6 weeks into the semester. I really hope that this won't be a recurring problem every semester because this was exhausting to deal with on top of school.
First internship rejection, that’s okay. I knew it was going to happen.
At this point I’m two seconds away from hiring an Etsy witch.
At this point I’m two seconds away from hiring an Etsy witch.
An equine intern in Ocala committed suicide. She was internmates with one of my classmates. Very sad.
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Not One More: Dr. Cierra Cadena’s Death Sparks Conversation Around Mental Health
The equine and Western communities are mourning the loss of Dr. Cierra Cadena, DVM, a young veterinarian remembered for her compassion, intelligence and lifelong dedication to horses and the people wh...
cardamom23
Full Member
Terribly sad. 😢An equine intern in Ocala committed suicide. She was internmates with one of my classmates. Very sad.
Not One More: Dr. Cierra Cadena’s Death Sparks Conversation Around Mental Health
The equine and Western communities are mourning the loss of Dr. Cierra Cadena, DVM, a young veterinarian remembered for her compassion, intelligence and lifelong dedication to horses and the people wh...
Housing man. So I got lucky and bought right as the low interest rates started to climb and I am so much more thankful for my house after today. Housing has always been short in our area as in I called over 30 phone numbers when I was trying to rent and 0 was available. Anyway fast forward to now my pm is suddenly without housing and of course there is 0 available. So I'm like I'm in a position I can buy an investment property and rent it then eventually sell it or maybe my inlaws will move to it, lots of potential options. Not too picky, figure a 2bed/1 bath house nothing extravagant like 100kish small quaint house easy peasy. So we went house shopping today. The housing market is so effed around here (and everywhere). Like I knew it was messed up but like wow-words cannot describe what I saw today. We looked at probably about 10 properties in the 100-150k range. Half of them were walk in and automatic nope. Like foundation issues and more. I'm like how is this worth 100k+ when it's going to take over 100k just to fix the problem so the house is stable not to mention the obvious ceiling damage. Like WTF. All to say we found diddly squat that I would feel comfortable having as a rental property that's not going to require more work than the property is ever going to be worth. There's a total of 5 more properties to look at. 2 are out of the city which might be the way to go. 2 already have renters so I'm thinking they're not going to be options as I'm not going to be THAT person. 1 is over budget but does have an additional bed and bath so has higher rental value...hopefully-though making the higher amount work is going to be a stretch. Wish us luck or TBH I'm not sure where our pm is going to end up living for the next 1-3 years while they get their house built since their current housing is ending very soon.
This has been all over my socials, it's so so devastating. With her being in an equine internship, I'm sure we're all wondering about that program...An equine intern in Ocala committed suicide. She was internmates with one of my classmates. Very sad.
Not One More: Dr. Cierra Cadena’s Death Sparks Conversation Around Mental Health
The equine and Western communities are mourning the loss of Dr. Cierra Cadena, DVM, a young veterinarian remembered for her compassion, intelligence and lifelong dedication to horses and the people wh...
My rant is that PP9-jr might be coming down with her first cold. The weather is starting to turn up here so the timing is right (and of course daycare is a cesspool). Not being able to cuddle her all day had my crying on my entire drive in to work today
I think we need to start crazy lowballing these ppl to humble them into reality
My realtor is very game into the low balling. Many of these properties weren't even worth low balling though. Like it was at the level of really let me just buy the land if I'm going to buy it but then I have to tear down an ancient house which pry has asbestos so yeah. Looking at some more tomorrow. 2 of which are out of town so I'm hoping those are better, but all the pictures have been so deceiving vs reality. There's also one realtor in our area who over prices things alot so it's a very mixed bag around here. Like they listed a house for over 400k that's 1 block over from me. I paid like half that for my house right at the end of the low interest rate era. No way it's worth that especially for where we live and the kinds of jobs there are around here. It's a very blue collar neighborhood. Like 3 firefighter familes and 3 cop famlies. They only make like 50k/year. The math does not compute.
Don't tempt me with a good time. I would kill to be able to move. I would be tempted to just try to get a house for 300k since the 6% interest rate would give me the same house payment.
Is there anything even livable for 300k near you?
Abso-****-altutely not
Okay, just looked on zillow. Only townhouses and condos for sale at 300k or less. Semi-questionable areas where I probably would have lived there in my 20s but don't want to if I don't have to in my 30s.
Ok, now both Mr. pp9 and myself are sick too.
Same for my metro area. <400k either means you are in BFE or an unsafe area, or the house is very small or in really bad condition. The new townhouses out by us (which is a minimum 45min commute for me) are starting at 450k, which is actually a little more than we paid for our house. Pay more to own less! Literal insanity. There is a small community of 1 million dollar townhomes going up in the wealthier area.....clearly intended for boomers who are rolling in it now and want less home maintenance to deal with. It's kinda weird because my state has never seemed like a 'hot destination' for anyone. When I lived in FL, that made sense, but here...?
I do not see homes being any more expensive than they are currently when we are 'old.' If we want to downsize in our 60s, we'd have to sell this house for 700k+ to get the kind of return on investment people are getting right now. I just don't see it happening. We got a bit of it when we sold our FL house, but not to the degree that people who have lived in their houses for 20+ years are getting currently
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Cost to build more housing and even to renovate is also crazy. And that doesn’t take into account the current diesel price increases and the effect that will have on material production, import, and delivery. I mean my garage door cost $1,000 more than we budgeted because of price increases. And that doesn’t even consider lumber and all that stuff. I’m really grateful that we have almost everything ordered/under contract for the house so effects on me will be minimal from here, but construction of any sort is so expensive and the immigration changes have also really affected the construction industry.
If your coworker is planning to build, has your coworker considered living in a camper during construction? A lot of people do that if they can’t stay in their former home.
If your coworker is planning to build, has your coworker considered living in a camper during construction? A lot of people do that if they can’t stay in their former home.
Yeah, im worried about this. My parents bought my primary childhood home for 175,500 in 1999 and sold it for 415 in 2018. I bought my house for 400 knowing we were in for the long haul on renovations. So far we have renovated: took out baseboard heaters, new water heater, added solar panels, remodeled the whole kitchen (still in progress), new deck, new back patio, new side walk into back yard. I'm working on the front now to turn into a food garden, but the rain is hindering me as bad as the heat did. But this....
May make our return on investment impossible. Thankfully we found a good patio company that I love. The kitchen company was terrible. We need to do the downstairs bathroom, but that's a ways away since I'm not making ER money anymore.
Our saving grace is that our loan is 20 years and I pay biweekly. So we'll pay it off in 16 or 17 instead. Already 5 years in, so I'm hoping if we do want to move, we'll have enough equity that it's a wash in 5-7 years.
This is what my vet school bestie did when her house burned down. They did fine for 6-8 months with her, the husband, a toddler, and an infant (plus cats).
This is what kept us from getting a house that needed significant work, even if it meant a better location (aside from us being lazy). We got a 2011 build and it thus far only needs minor cosmetics simply because we don't like them/they're builder grade and suck, but we aren't living with 40 year old carpet/an ancient furnace/crumbling roof for example. We're going to DIY as much as we can but only having one weekend day together, plus a baby, makes that a very slow process. I cannot wait until our ****-ass builder grade shower is gone. Whoever designed that shower shell insert, I'll see you in hell
Also ETA: The only seemingly decent house in a decent area that was <400k for us when we were looking had a significant basement flood, and they were trying to sell the house with no remediation done. The upstairs was great! When our realtor looked into it, he found out about the flood. The sellers/agent should be ashamed honestly because there was no mention of the mold/total tear out needed for the basement in the listing, let alone pictures of it. Idk what happened to it but if I had to guess, someone bought it, slapped white paint on everything, and is going to rent it out for $3000+/month
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It's not ideal but definately on the list at this point as an option
there needs to be jail time for the agents posting all the generative AI pictures in listings
cardamom23
Full Member
For sure, Digital Staging has always been around, even before artificial intelligence -- but the new ones that do use AI as filler staging, there are literally missing stairways 🤣
cardamom23
Full Member
That is unacceptable.
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
Surprisingly, that practice seems to have better reviews than many from past interns and externs. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much in the larger scheme of equine practice culture of work/life balance.
Jeeeeezus. I did not see that. That's truly horrific and the worst intern schedule I've ever heard of. SA rotatings can suck but I think many of us are sheltered from the equine internship horrors just because not a ton of people do them or talk about them (relatively). Someone once told me that many of these internships have their interns living in the lofts/attics of the hospitals for a reason, though, so there's that I guess.
That little sleep would probably have me go actually insane after about a week. When you are that sleep deprived, you cannot possibly make any decisions medically or in your life.
Also makes me super angry that her internship hospital made a post about her being a "valued member of the team" or whatever they said.
That and the heavy photoshop to make everything look brighter/fresher than it is. Unless that's the same thing that you're talking about, lol. I hated seeing a bright, airy looking home on Zillow only to walk in and think 'wow you really need every damn light on in this house at all times'
I mean I think this is the unfortunate reality of most internship programs. The intern is cheap labor at the end of the day, and they’re in a place where they need recommendations and can’t stand up for themselves. I definitely think it’s wrong, hell I quit mine.
I’ve heard equine ones can be much worse than small animal even. Someone was posting they were routinely left alone overnight with no technicians. I’m not sure how we make things better… but it needs to be.
cardamom23
Full Member
This whole conversation and tragedy has me thinking about how we talk about internships. A $40,000–$60,000 annual salary may sound manageable until you factor in a 75-hour workweek. At 75 hours, even $60,000 works out to about $15.38 an hour. To pay the same hourly rate that $60,000 represents in a 40-hour workweek, the annual salary would be $112,500—before any overtime premium.
Having worked in tech for a six-figure salary, I find it hard to accept extremely demanding work that doesn’t pay enough to support a decent quality of life. It’s okay to leave an internship or a toxic workplace. Your health and your life matter more than enduring a miserable year just because it’s considered part of the path. I’m not saying every internship needs to pay six figures. I’m saying that expecting someone to work 75 hours a week on that salary is exploitative and leaves little room for a healthy life outside work. Plus, the stress of little sleep, high value patients/clients, and critical cases often tackled alone.
And technicians, assistants, and CSRs make barely more than that or, more often, less than that working one to two or three jobs just to make ends meet. Obviously, the expectations and responsibilities of the roles differ vastly, but the mental health impact is the same.
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This. I went more into why I quit my internship on another post…. But bottom line I was mentally hitting the wall. I was not able to be anything but an intern and it was breaking me. I was not sleeping. I was not learning. To put it frankly, I hated my life and I didn’t want to do it anymore.
There’s so much more not routinely discussed. I keep in touch with those still in the program. They vent to me that they are mocked and talked down to by technicians/residents/attendings for asking questions. The culture of “eating your young” is rampant in all fields of medicine - that does not make it productive or okay.
Edit to add: a post about this all discussed being told to go clean out an attendings car while the OP was pregnant on internship. Insane.
We were getting somewhere around $12/hour iirc for 60-hour weeks, which were pretty typical. Looking back, I don't know why I did it. I mean I know why, but if I was ever offered 35k for anything again I'd just be laughing
This, and also the peer-to-peer abuse at all levels. Intern to intern, tech to tech, receptionist to receptionist, vet to vet. There's gotta be some psychological issue with these people who routinely emotionally abuse their coworkers. Or they're so unhappy with their job, life, whatever that they are taking it out on others, or abusing others to inflate their sense of self-worth.
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
Speaking of which, for anyone who is thinking about equine internships/externship/etc., this website EquineVetted has reviews from past interns and externs on various equine practices. Unfortunately not all have reviews or very many reviews, but it may help with trying to avoid the particularly bad ones.
Would love to see one for SA internships so questions/comments can be made outside of the match's yearly survey.
I am feeling a bit better about my situation in some ways. I have actually reached out to a lot of people and gotten some things moving. But unfortunately I am waiting on the powers that be to determine if I can switch my clinical year sites. I really don't know if I will be able to stay to finish my clinical year if I can't. I have 3 out of town rotations that I could easily have done a year ago when I had to make my schedule but now, I cannot leave for a month at a time. And it's making me so anxious when one of the rotations is a month and a half away. I really hope the meeting on Monday goes well. I don't know what I will do otherwise.
Update-today was MUCH better. All the houses we looked at today at least had potential. Put a lower offer in on the one in town. Will see how it goes. If everything goes swimmingly will be closed in ~45D AND my tech won't be homeless 😊
My old dog now has SCC of the nail bed… amputating tomorrow… WHY…… Don’t see evidence of metastasis on FNA of the popliteal but considering just removing it as well. Sigh.
Her family has set up a fund in efforts to improve equine based internships and create change
Donate to Cierra Cadena Legacy Fund, organized by Weston Cadena
Cierra was driven, hilarious, compassionate, and a million more things. She was an amazing vet… Weston Cadena needs your support for Cierra Cadena Legacy Fund
My body has not been cooperating. We’re week four into the school year and there has been something wrong, either flare up of chronic illness or something infectious, every single week. I’m having a hard time keeping up. Trying to figure out if this is the result of stress from over the summer, me not taking care of myself appropriately, normal cyclical chronic issues, or some combination of all of those. I’m just feeling fed up.
chiming in, EquineVetted is wonderful. If the practice does not have reviews, I always recommend speaking to a previous intern (ideally one that finished recently) to get an unfiltered and unbiased view of the practice. Sometimes the current equine interns have a bit of stockholm syndrome going on tbh or they’re just too early in their internship to really give a full review to externs. There are sadly worse hospitals than the one where this occurred in terms of work hours. I had an externship where i worked 60 hours in 3 days, and then proceeded to get significantly hurt due to essentially negligence because no one stopped to say, “hey, this isnt working, lets try something else” bc they were so exhausted from working 100+ hours a week and just had a get ‘er done mentality. Be cautious of anywhere where the biggest sell is just high caseload. there is a spectrum, and you can find an internship with good/high caseload AND appropriate hours/staffing/support/teaching/etc. Having boundaries or limits does not make you less of an equine practitioner, and knowing when to advocate for yourself is just as important. I had to work a 22 hour day the other week, because a tech and I drove 8 hours to and from seeing 5 horses. We told everyone in my practice they couldnt call us before noon the next day. And, of course I feel like a broken record always saying this but for any future colleagues on the east coast/midwest please feel free to reach out regarding practices, I just might have an opinion on them 😉
apoptosis09
She/her • tOSU CVM c/o 2029
I may take you up on that in the upcoming year or two!
speaking of boundaries....unless you really are the only equine vet in a 6 hour radius? I hope you charged appropriately
Re: boundaries
Not to take away from the conversation about equine specific here, but is there any sort of change about having boundaries for lunch/time off etc? A group of friends at school were talking about some things and I mentioned that lunch breaks are entitled and when I am working, I will be receiving a full lunch break. They proceeded to basically laugh at me and were like no, that doesn’t happen in clinics
And I’m like?? I’ve played these games before where skipping lunch for animals is “cool” because it shows how much you care, but I’ve had enough life experience to know that no, in my opinion those boundaries are imperative for health burnout etc
But it was a bit of a slap in the face and I’m wondering is it actually unrealistic to expect an uninterrupted lunch break, even for 30 minutes, in practice?
Not to take away from the conversation about equine specific here, but is there any sort of change about having boundaries for lunch/time off etc? A group of friends at school were talking about some things and I mentioned that lunch breaks are entitled and when I am working, I will be receiving a full lunch break. They proceeded to basically laugh at me and were like no, that doesn’t happen in clinics
And I’m like?? I’ve played these games before where skipping lunch for animals is “cool” because it shows how much you care, but I’ve had enough life experience to know that no, in my opinion those boundaries are imperative for health burnout etc
But it was a bit of a slap in the face and I’m wondering is it actually unrealistic to expect an uninterrupted lunch break, even for 30 minutes, in practice?
There are some places I’ve been to where the clinic shuts down over lunch or the vets are given consistent time for lunch, but I’d say that your friends are correct that it doesn’t often happen in a veterinary setting. Often it’s the staff that get lunches and the vets end up working through lunch to get ahead on paperwork or callbacks because there’s only so many hours in a day and a lot of people will ‘sacrifice’ lunch or eat at their desk in order to get home sooner. Not necessarily because it’s “cool”, but if it means getting home at 5 vs 6 or not having to write records at home, then yeah, I’ll probably eat at my desk and work through lunch. If having a dedicated lunch break where you leave the clinic or do nothing is very important to you, you need to choose to work a place that will accept that/has a lunch culture like you want and be sure to get it put into your contract. It may not be needed contractually, but that’s your best ‘weapon’ against management who expects you to do something you don’t want to do is having it in writing in an employment agreement. That goes for anything, not just lunches.
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Depends on where you work.
The corporate I left was trying to force the lunch issue so that people would take a required lunch. But we were all paid hourly and understaffed. So they were trying to avoid paying overtime for the staff and reduce doctor time as a whole. Which really irritated 75% of us who did our weekly budgets based off our hourly wage.
Now I'm in a private GP and I used to have a 60 minute lunch, now I have a 90 minute lunch (as of yesterday) and started 30 minute appointments (as of last week). Gotta say.... I will never have 90 minutes off straight and honestly don't plan to. I'm now pro-sal, so there's no real "break" in the sense in how my pay works. I worked the day after Labor Day as an extra day and there was no increase in my pay other than production I won't make since I went to a conference this month. My 90 minute lunch is an effort to have uninterrupted time to get calls done, then get records done.
Agree that it depends. All of my SA jobs, both before and after vet school (so GPs, a rotating, and ER), were eat on the fly and when/if you can. Like Jayna said, at least at the ER I worked at, staff were given dedicated time for lunch and doctors were expected to never leave the floor. I would snarf down my food in between triages usually.
some clinics have a 'lunch hour' (which may actually be more like 1.5-2 hours) where part of that may be lunch, the rest is intended for continuing to work but not necessarily seeing appts. So records, in-house stuff. whatever.
I get migraines and get really shaky if I don’t eat, so I will always advocate to have enough time to at least eat a meal, but yeah, even as a tech when I got a full hour for lunch, half paid, half unpaid, I did paperwork during my paid time because there was always paperwork to do.
Really depends on the day. Mondays when I’m seeing urgent stuff it’s unlikely I’ll get a lunch break I’m not doing paperwork etc.
Days im seeing more routine stuff it’s absolutely possible.
In school on clinics I don’t think I got a lunch break once.
cardamom23
Full Member
If I had to choose between an unpaid lunch, and just not getting a lunch and leaving an hour earlier, I would choose the latter lol. 9 hour shift versus 8 hour shift, (on a typical day). But maybe that is just me!
Sometimes it is hard to gauge how clinic will go during the day, sometimes we get appointments that bleed into lunch (literally and figuratively), so it is a hit or miss on whether or not we get the full hour on any given day.
Sometimes it is hard to gauge how clinic will go during the day, sometimes we get appointments that bleed into lunch (literally and figuratively), so it is a hit or miss on whether or not we get the full hour on any given day.
