Rant / Question: Height Issues?

[bluesails]

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Ok, this has been bugging me for a while but I never really asked about it because I don't want to admit it worries me (it doesn't. not THAT much. argh!).

Okay, a little background. I'm 5'1" and I will probably be this height for the rest of my life. I don't really know why - my brother's about 5'11" and my parents think it's because I stopped napping AND drinking milk really early.

The thing is, when I tell people I want to be a vet, they're like, oh, okay. Then I mention that right now I'm interested in working with horses etc (basically bigger animals than dogs and cats) they either laugh and make a joke out of it or try to convince me otherwise because they can't really believe that I would be able to work with large animals, I guess. People who know me well acknowledge that I ride horses but riding a horse and doing veterinary procedures on it is very different and I get that it seems a little funny. It's just annoying.

So here's the question - would it be something to worry about? Would people think twice before hiring me or letting me assist with procedures during an internship, etc? I personally don't think it would be a problem but then again sometimes in stressful situations where my horse might not be too happy my instructor has asked me to hand him over to a groom until the situation is over (I mean, this is when I'm leading him, not when I'm riding haha).

 

[heylodeb]

this has been discussed at length on here actually...I took a second to search for the threads but I seem to be lacking in talent in that area.

However:

An "average" horse weighs 1200-1500lbs.....it doesn't matter whether you are 100lbs or 200lbs/ 4ft or 8 ft: if the horse decides to get you out of its way - you've got no shot in hell of holding him back.

If you want to work with horses - go for it. You will learn to compensate for your "lack" or height.

(others worried about things like palpating cows but said that all smaller veterinarians had worked out ways to do it...)

 

[lei325]

Nope. I had a professor that was 5 foot nothing and practiced rural equine vet med for around 15 years, and she was very successful until she decided she wanted to teach instead.

 

[HandD42]

I would say if you want to work with horses get horse experience (if you aren't already). You will learn that some of the most effective people around horses are the smallest. Honestly body language, posture and attitidue around horses can be a million times more effective then any sort of brute strength.

And if things get really bad there are always twitches and pharmaceuticals😉

 

[BlacKAT33]

doesn't matter!

 

[Whyevernot55]

My equine vet is 5'2", blond, and adorable. And she is bad-fu**ing-ass.

Don't let your height stop you.

 

[shortnsweet]

Yeah this has been discussed a LOT before...maybe twelvetigers can work her magic.

I'm a little under 5 ft, plan on working with equines when I graduate, working with cows right now on EMS, have worked with sheep, donkeys, giraffes, rhinos...pretty sure you will be just fine. Just hire a hot tech with big muscles and stock your truck with drugs 😉

 

[lunajett]

As a 5'11" guy with zero experience with LA, when it comes time for me to be going to barns and farms I think I'd probably trade height for a little experience/insight into working with those beasts. Like others have said, a few inches or an additonal hundred pounds body weight really isn't going to make much difference in a physical matchup with a cow or horse, so it's got to come down to your attitude and technique. But I can sympathize, we do often judge initially on appearance and I expect some of your LA clients might give you a bit of a hard time at first. Ah well, we've all got hurdles to overcome.

At the SA emergency hospital where I worked, our favorite overnight vet was a short guy. He had a great attitude, managed to exude a certain confidence, and was a great vet, so height was never an issue - but then we weren't working with cows and horses, either. And we had an intern who was probably about 5'2", again great guy, good attitude, good skills. Only time height was an issue was when he was on surgical rotation and working with a tall surgeon. The table had to be high for the surgeon, so the poor intern had to spend the whole time standing on a milk crate to be able to see anything and assist. He wasn't uptight about it, so people were just able to joke about it and it was fine.

 

[breenie]

Reppin' 5'3" over here! Have ridden and worked with horses since I was a kid. I've only been kicked once, bitten once, and run over once. None of these things would have been changed if I were bigger.

A little patience, good intuition, and an occasional twitch will get you a long way. 🙂

 

[david594]

this has been discussed at length on here actually...I took a second to search for the threads but I seem to be lacking in talent in that area.

However:

An "average" horse weighs 1200-1500lbs.....it doesn't matter whether you are 100lbs or 200lbs/ 4ft or 8 ft: if the horse decides to get you out of its way - you've got no shot in hell of holding him back.

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and sure a 100 lb person versus a 200 lb person isn't going to make much of a difference in stopping the animal.

But if each gets "bumped" equally hard by the animal the lighter person is going to get tossed a lot easier which could put them at risk of more injury.

 

[nyanko]

But if each gets "bumped" equally hard by the animal the lighter person is going to get tossed a lot easier which could put them at risk of more injury.

Not necessarily! A low center of gravity goes a long way. And we'll have less momentum if we do fall. 😉

 

[Nechochwen]

If you can look past the trolls in this thread, they talked about the height issue some.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9746560

As far as my experience goes, shorter/smaller people are used to doing things in a smarter, safer (and often correct) way, whereas some taller/bigger people can physically get away with cutting corners. When it comes large animals, cutting corners may not be the safest thing to do.

This is just something I have seen occasionally, I'm sure there are tall careful people and short reckless people.

 

[twelvetigers]

A link to a thread in which I link to another thread...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=725373

 

[shopsteward]

Height and weight are pretty much irrelevant in handling horses, as it is all about technique and experience. Horses are remarkably intuitive animals, and respond to the hands, voices, body language and emotions of people around them. Plenty of time handling horses (mucking out, grooming, etc) as well as riding will be of most use to you in learning handling skills. I would have hoped that if you are learning equine veterinary skills at vet school, the handing techniques and practical training opportunities would be provided to you then.

I don't like twitches, but for veterinary procedures you might need them (in other cases, usually a hand fairly loosely round the upper lip of the horse is all that is needed for it to stand absolutely still - it's all about the release of endorphins, is my (lay) understanding). A lip twitch is vastly preferable to an ear twitch, which should never be used. I've heard about a wither twitch, but never seen it used, and reaching up to the withers on a tall horse for any length of time is tiring.

I'd say that handling cattle is an entirely different matter. Cattle don't seem to have the ability to connect with/understand humans that horses do, they usually have little or no training in/experience of anything but routine handling, they are very big and heavy and they are often perfectly willing to use their weight to get their way. You should be able to rely on the farmer/rancher to handle them, and to carry out any examinations/procedures in a crush, but even so, I wouldn't commit to large animal work other than horses until you've tried it out.

 

[BaliDoll]

People have the same reaction to me, I'm 5'3" and about 100lbs... people think I can't boss a dog around, much less a horse. When I showed up to volunteer for a boxer rescue they had me start walking the "sick and elderly" ones because they thought a full grown male would pull me over.... I had to explain to them I work with horses 5 days a week and no dog is going to over power me without a VERY good fight...

I think it's ignorant of people to think that you need to be bigger to deal with horses or big dogs. I have seen plenty of grown men and women much bigger than me be dragged down the side walk by a pit bull or pulled off balance by a horse. I think to work with animals you need reflexes more than anything else... personally.

Anyway, don't let anyone discourage you. 🙂

 

[that redhead]

I'm 5'0 and want to do equine, with production animal as my second choice, so to speak. I've been riding and just generally around horses nearly my entire life and I feel comfortable and confident handling them. I rode with an equine vet my sophomore year of high school where I did stuff like restrain patients, etc. If a horse needed something serious done, it got tranqed. Even the vet (an averaged sized, middle aged guy) wasn't going to get the horse to stand still for sewing up an eyelid! If it didn't need to be tranqed but was being really unruly, we'd twitch or use a stud chain. If you familiar with the equine world, you know these are things that many a barn has on hand for their own needs.

When I told my current boss (lab animal vet) that I wanted to do cows, he was laughing and asking me how I was going to palpate it. I told him I'd just hop up on her back, swing around backwards and stick my arm in!

Long story short, I think it's all about your attitude and how you project your confidence. If people snicker or tell you that you can't do it, forget them and show them through your amazing skills just how capable you are of handling and treating their animals. You'll build respect that way, no matter what your size. As far as having vets agree to let you shadow, I see no problem with this.

 

[gilch]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, so to speak, so add my opinion to those above.

However, one vet that I know, an equine ophthalmologist, says that during her interview in the 70s or early 80s, she was asked, as someone who wanted to go into equine and is 5 ft max and maybe 100 lbs tops, what she would do with an unruly or difficult horse. Answer? chemical sedation.

When she quit, she was the only (or one of 2?) vet in my state who did standing eye surgeries on horses.

 

[bluesails]

Okay, thanks for the great replies - and sorry about not looking up past posts first. I did mention it was a little bit of a rant as well as a question (which should have gone in the rants thread then). 🙂

 

[milkmaid]

Height and weight aren't a big deal. I'm 5' 4", on the petite side, and have plans to work almost exclusively with cattle after vet school. Having experience to know how to use things available to you (ie ropes, halters, fences, working chutes, etc) as well as having confidence and understanding human/cattle body language - that is far more important than physical size. I think one of the only times I wish I were taller is when I'm trying to see ear tags on a Holstein on the other side of group of cows. I have seen a tall guy on his knees to AI a little Jersey cow, and I suspect he wished he were shorter! Physical strength is important though; height/weight doesn't matter so much, but there is a certain level of strength you have to have to work with cattle.

Horses... I've ridden for a lot of years and I agree that height gives a person a certain advantage, but it's not essential. Experience and skill go a long way toward getting a job done; if you don't know how to work around horses and livestock, your physical stature is pretty well irrelevant.

 

[shortnsweet]

But if each gets "bumped" equally hard by the animal the lighter person is going to get tossed a lot easier which could put them at risk of more injury.

But we also tend to bounce better ...I like to think of us shorties as being quite nimble and quick to move or get back up 😀

 

[StartingoverVet]

But we also tend to bounce better ...I like to think of us shorties as being quite nimble and quick to move or get back up 😀

Sorry, but on this one I think we have the advantage: IMO, denser bones and more muscle are much better protection than bounceability.

Really, not getting hit is definitely the best strategy and that is less quickness than awareness which is clearly not size dependent!

 

[nyanko]

Sorry, but on this one I think we have the advantage: IMO, denser bones and more muscle are much better protection than bounceability.

But our bones are shorter and our muscle is more compact - there are plenty of tall, lanky people with a lot less muscle than I have, and it's more spread out so less protective. 😉

Anecdotally, I am 5'1" on a good day and weigh somewhere near 125-130 lbs and have never broken a bone despite having played ice hockey (quite aggressively, at high levels and in checking leagues with guys) for my whole life, having been hit by cars twice, having fallen out of numerous trees and jumped off my roof as a kid, etc...

 

[der2002]

my only concern about my size (5'1, 108 lbs) is that certain tools are just not tailored to my little hands (ie: LA emasculators, clippers). Plus, all the exam tables in the treatment room at my SA are a smidgen too high; sometimes I need to stand on my tiptoes (and I obviously can't wear platform heels to work).

 

[twelvetigers]

When Nyan got hit by the car, she just got up, brushed off, went over to the car and yelled, "Hulk smash!" before driving her fists into the hood. 😀

 

[bluesails]

Anecdotally, I am 5'1" on a good day and weigh somewhere near 125-130 lbs and have never broken a bone despite having played ice hockey (quite aggressively, at high levels and in checking leagues with guys) for my whole life, having been hit by cars twice, having fallen out of numerous trees and jumped off my roof as a kid, etc...

Same here - have never broken a bone despite having fallen off big horses more than I can count, and then earlier than that falling off my bike while trying to go down big hills very fast (I think I was a really stupid kid) or falling while rollerblading.

Someone actually told me people with shorter limbs tend to break less bones because long limbed people are more likely to stretch out to try to break their fall with their arms, leading to bad stuff. Of course this is unsupported by ANYTHING but I just get this image of a small person just rolling down a surface and a tall gangly person kind of bumping down.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Same here - have never broken a bone despite having fallen off big horses more than I can count, and then earlier than that falling off my bike while trying to go down big hills very fast (I think I was a really stupid kid) or falling while rollerblading.

Someone actually told me people with shorter limbs tend to break less bones because long limbed people are more likely to stretch out to try to break their fall with their arms, leading to bad stuff. Of course this is unsupported by ANYTHING but I just get this image of a small person just rolling down a surface and a tall gangly person kind of bumping down.

Ok, I change my answer! Thinking of the physics of it, long items are easier to break than short items. Hell, I should know that with my Italian Greyhounds. Don't see a lot of Daschunds with radius/ulna fractures (well, then again, you don't see daschunds jumping very high either 😀).

 

[EnvyPointers]

I'm 5'3" and about 105# soaking wet. My spine is fused and rodded, but by gummy, I'll be practicing Food Animal medicine some day. I'd like to see anyone try to tell me otherwise. 😀

Go for it. Do what you want. I recently shadowed at a Vet school and got to follow around the Junior vet students for the day (absolutely one of the most fun days I've had! Top 5 for sure. ). Worked in the LA hospital, and I found out I'm perfectly capable of doing what some of those (very large!) farm boy vet students can do. Had to hold a pig while we lanced him. Found out 2 things: 1) I'm even stronger than I thought I was and 2) Ear plugs do not work when a pig is in full scream mode. Juuuuuussst sayin'.

Good luck!!

 

[shortnsweet]

Ok, I change my answer! Thinking of the physics of it, long items are easier to break than short items. Hell, I should know that with my Italian Greyhounds. Don't see a lot of Daschunds with radius/ulna fractures (well, then again, you don't see daschunds jumping very high either 😀).

Hehe...thought you might change that first answer....Power to the short people!! Woot Woot!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Ear plugs do not work when a pig is in full scream mode. Juuuuuussst sayin'.

Quite true I'm 5'4nd ,maybe 120 and I can handle steers as well as anyone. It's all about voice and power. And what people said about low center of gravity is true - I am a lot harder to knock down than DH, who is about 6 foot and 180 lbs! (but don't tell him that 😉 )

 

[chagheill]

I'm going to differ from the majority opinion voiced above and tell you the truth: yes, it will affect you. There will be times you wish your arm was a few inches longer while doing a rectal, or you were a bit stronger while putting a calf bed back in. There will be instances where you have to do a C-section on a cow because you can't quite slip a rope around a leg.

Conversely (before people jump down my throat), there are times being small will benefit you while doing large animal practice. For example, James Herriot was constantly thankful for his small, nimble hands while doing lambings or calving small heifers. I'm a 6'2 male who showed up for lambing EMS (farm work required of UK vet students) on a farm this year and the first thing the farmer said was "Oh god; my poor ewes, look at the size of your bloody hands".

Being big or small doesn't make you a better or worse vet, but it will affect some of the methods you use to get the job done.

 

[bluesails]

I'm going to differ from the majority opinion voiced above and tell you the truth: yes, it will affect you. There will be times you wish your arm was a few inches longer while doing a rectal, or you were a bit stronger while putting a calf bed back in. There will be instances where you have to do a C-section on a cow because you can't quite slip a rope around a leg.

Conversely (before people jump down my throat), there are times being small will benefit you while doing large animal practice. For example, James Herriot was constantly thankful for his small, nimble hands while doing lambings or calving small heifers. I'm a 6'2 male who showed up for lambing EMS (farm work required of UK vet students) on a farm this year and the first thing the farmer said was "Oh god; my poor ewes, look at the size of your bloody hands".

Being big or small doesn't make you a better or worse vet, but it will affect some of the methods you use to get the job done.

Thanks for this, actually. I remember that when I first met an equine vet and told him I wanted to be a vet, he asked me to stretch out my arm as long as I could. Then he made a "hmph" sound while comparing it to his arm length. I'm not sure what it meant. 😛

 

[ImNotThatGirl]

Yeah, I'd have to say that I'd rather be too short than too tall. Like someone else said, if a 1000-pound horse is gonna throw you, there's not much you can do no matter if you're big or small. I'm 6'0" (and a girl, so no muscles either!), and I find being too tall difficult sometimes. It's hard when I'm trying to restrain a small cat or dog on the table so the vet can work on him because the table is too low, so I can't get a good grip sometimes. and then the vet gets pissed because i'm not restraining the animal as well as i could be, but the fact of the matter is that it would be a whole heck of a lot easier for me if the table were just higher up!

 

[ImNotThatGirl]

Same here - have never broken a bone despite having fallen off big horses more than I can count, and then earlier than that falling off my bike while trying to go down big hills very fast (I think I was a really stupid kid) or falling while rollerblading.

Someone actually told me people with shorter limbs tend to break less bones because long limbed people are more likely to stretch out to try to break their fall with their arms, leading to bad stuff. Of course this is unsupported by ANYTHING but I just get this image of a small person just rolling down a surface and a tall gangly person kind of bumping down.

I can fully back this up!!! I have always been tall and gangly, and I have broken my left arm 3 times! One time, I was 4 and I fell off a chair. The second time, I was 7 or 8 and I fell off a parking curb. The third time, my friend ran and hugged me and knocked me down. 3rd time was only a fracture, but still!

 

[Minnerbelle]

I can fully back this up!!! I have always been tall and gangly, and I have broken my left arm 3 times! One time, I was 4 and I fell off a chair. The second time, I was 7 or 8 and I fell off a parking curb. The third time, my friend ran and hugged me and knocked me down. 3rd time was only a fracture, but still!

haha, were you a 6 foot tall four year old?

 

[sumstorm]

One of my favorite vets is a tiny, barely 5' blond. Met her at Hatcher's Dairy in TN. Her father is a retired vet (big guy.) She lives on a large dairy farm. She did say that she has converted almost all of her clients to ultrasound (portable) vs palpation just because she can do those much faster. She said the clients really started to see her value when they realized she could move like a monkey and get into spots and positions that helped a lot and they never imagined. The hardest thing, according to her, was getting over the stereotypes.

I am always amused that this topic doesn't come up so much in zoo med. I guess no one assumes an extra foot of height and a hundred pounds is going to do anyone much good next to the tiger or elephant. Guess they aren't as dangerous as cattle or horses ;-)

As for bone density, my understanding is that is much more affected by individual, not size or height. And actually, an overweight but active individual in a petitie body should have more bone density than a thin, inactive individual in a sturdy body because bone density is affected by impact load.

 

[equivix]

I figure I'll put in my two cents too. Just to put myself in perspective, I'm 5'4 with a strong frame. As much as we can discuss the physics of flight and the density of skeletons, at the end of the day a taller, stronger person will be at an advantage when working with large domestic species. Period.

I've worked with horses and cattle for a long time, I am not going to deny that sometimes (...often times) "body language" and voice commands won't cut it... Not when faced with a 3 year old, 18 hand TBX colt with NO ground manners (and you'll meet a lot of these). My larger male co-worker definitely had an easier time with those ones, but that's not to say I couldn't handle it... with difficulty... I guess I'm no "horse whisperer" ?

Yes, you will have a harder time with many of the tasks involved in large/equine practice than a larger person would. But it's still doable, and there's always an alternative route, whether that be using ultrasound instead of palpation or tranquing instead of "man-handling".

I am always amused that this topic doesn't come up so much in zoo med. I guess no one assumes an extra foot of height and a hundred pounds is going to do anyone much good next to the tiger or elephant. Guess they aren't as dangerous as cattle or horses ;-)

I'm not sure most people would willingly go "catch the tiger from the field and hold him still" to inject him. Zoo med seems to involve less man-handling and more tranquing (or having zoo keepers restrain). Not to mention I don't think ANYONE has an arm long enough to palpate an elephant? Being short is therefor a little less worriesome I guess.

 

[sumstorm]

Yes, you will have a harder time with many of the tasks involved in large/equine practice than a larger person would. But it's still doable, and there's always an alternative route, whether that be using ultrasound instead of palpation or tranquing instead of "man-handling".

I'm not sure most people would willingly go "catch the tiger from the field and hold him still" to inject him. Zoo med seems to involve less man-handling and more tranquing (or having zoo keepers restrain). Not to mention I don't think ANYONE has an arm long enough to palpate an elephant? Being short is therefor a little less worriesome I guess.

Growing up on a farm and 'manhandling' animals since I was 8 means we will just have to agree to disagree. Finesse works far better than brute strength. Training better than either. Realisticly, working with a hotblood, that extra foot isn't going to change much. Plenty of folks have gotten themselves killed trying to prove that brute force is effective (Darwinism at work.)

Ever tried tranquilizing a bear? They get hyped up they can break themselves and do lots of destructive things, not to mention doses can start to creep dangerously high. Alot of what is shifting in zoo work is the acknowledgement that relationship matters. A couple of decades ago, it was routine to try to use brute force to subdue large exotics (fire hoses, electric prods, bull whips, sharp spikes.) A little training and positive reinforcement goes a VERY long way. Part of my job this summer is to train two bears to work with us, rather than fighting us and needing tranquilization.

BTW, elephants are palpated; nearly every conception by an elephant in the US was done via palpation and invitro. It requires two people, ultrasound, and a scope. Elephant's have a sponge like cervix with lots of blind sacs. The semen has to get into the right opening, or fertilization won't occur. Apparently the most skilled specialists are from France (a select group of folks) that are flown in, and even for them it takes an hour to palpate. Meanwhile, a keeper who has trained the elephant has to be present to issue cues (plus the elephants bottom has to be higher than it's head, and it is tethered, though when your under the belly of an elephant, tethering won't stop them from laying on you.)

I'm not sure why someone would think the primarily nectar feeding bears I work with (at 400-600 pounds) are that much more dangerous than an enraged stallion or bull. Personally, I prefer to work calmly and carefully around all of the above...but to each their own. Manhandle away.