VMCAS Questions and Rants c/o 2029

[mn1309]

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This on top of this, no one is offering file reviews. I continue to post my stats on this site and have had several people ask if there’s some additional red-flag preventing my acceptance, well I wouldn’t know the answer to this because no school is offering ANY sort of review. At this point I’m happy my masters allows me to look elsewhere for a career, because this entire process is a heaping pile of **** and no school has presented a solution. It’s infuriating to see people with GPA’s below mine as well as having less veterinary hours get interviews while I’m sitting here for the 3rd time with nothing.

Literally same.

 

[battie]

Call me crazy but the disorganization from some of these schools is baffling me. I understand theres a huge amount of applicants that has increased over the last few years but so many of us are paying thousands to apply to schools for the wrong year to be put on interview invites, decisions being sent out to a handful of applicants at almost midnight while the majority sits in anxiety with no response, and another school that posts gifs about the release date which comes off to me as toying with my emotions. As everyone else, this is my lively hood and whatever decisions I receive in the next few months dictates huge life choices. As little and silly as these things seem in the short, it's the oversight that makes me feel my application and whatever happens with it is insignificant. I struggle to understand how there isn't a more uniform system after our applications are submitted

This on top of this, no one is offering file reviews. I continue to post my stats on this site and have had several people ask if there’s some additional red-flag preventing my acceptance, well I wouldn’t know the answer to this because no school is offering ANY sort of review. At this point I’m happy my masters allows me to look elsewhere for a career, because this entire process is a heaping pile of **** and no school has presented a solution. It’s infuriating to see people with GPA’s below mine as well as having less veterinary hours get interviews while I’m sitting here for the 3rd time with nothing.

I get it. Really. It took me three application cycles to get accepted (my last cycle I had already decided and I was actively pursuing a back up career), and my in-state gave me 0 love.

Likewise, I truly want to relay that the schools do not take this lightly and they 100% understand that this is a make-it-or-break-it circumstance for applicants. For one, most of the admission committee members were in the same circumstances at one point. I can promise you after working with the admissions department of my school while a student, this process is extremely important to them. They consider us potential future colleagues and the future of the profession. If they didn't care, they simply wouldn't do it. It's a cheap, thankless job that most actually volunteer for and aren't paid to be a part of.

Likewise, these admissions committees are tiny. We're talking no more than 2-3 dozen people handling 5,000+ applications to get through from Sept through the early fall to get interviews and decisions out in a timely manner. And now that the cycle starts in January (used to be May when I was applying), the cycle is even more extended on them, so they are handling two cycles at once for about the quarter of the year.

Yes, you're getting emails late at night. That is an individual who is in the admissions office emailing you at 10/11pm or even midnight; this individual's life is revolving around your (group your) application and they are working 12-16 hours a day to get through all these applications.

Schools who post memes, gifs, etc. (assuming you're calling out NC State?) do so potentially to take the edge off and it doesn't land with you, or they legitimately have a student who is paid 7-10/hr to manage social media for the school.

Again, now that we have thousands of applicants beyond even 5 or 6 years ago, file reviews are simply a non-starter. There are not enough humans in the admissions committees to be able to offer them to everyone. And that's the problem; if they offer a file review to one, they have to offer to all. And even if only 1000 people ask, that's 1000 hours, which would be 3 applicants per day over the course of the year. But they can't offer reviews 365 days per year because of holidays and weekends, and a file review on January 10 doesn't really do a whole hell of a lot of good. Just doing reviews from April 15 (signing day) to Sept 15 (closing) would be 56 days (Mon-Fri) that schools could offer reviews. That's now 18 reviews a day for 1000 applicants. That would literally be a single person doing 1 hour long reviews 18 hours a day for 5 months straight. And that's without any preparation prior to these reviews.

There are simply not enough resources any more. Vet school is finally as competitive as human medical school (used to be an urban myth until around 2020). And because of that, schools have their resources stretched thin and they are doing the best they can with what they are given by the bureaucracy that is higher education.

This isn't a message to tell you to stop ranting and suck it up. This process sucks. Been there, done that, and didn't get the t-shirt twice. I had 14 rejections over 3 cycles. Please let your frustrations out because it sucks.

This message is simply to put into perspective that the people who are determining your vet school life are doing what they can with what they are given. They have very limited control, even the deans of student life/admissions/academics. There is no malice, there is no disinterest. They care deeply about this process and take it extremely seriously.

 

[indysadventures]

This on top of this, no one is offering file reviews. I continue to post my stats on this site and have had several people ask if there’s some additional red-flag preventing my acceptance, well I wouldn’t know the answer to this because no school is offering ANY sort of review. At this point I’m happy my masters allows me to look elsewhere for a career, because this entire process is a heaping pile of **** and no school has presented a solution. It’s infuriating to see people with GPA’s below mine as well as having less veterinary hours get interviews while I’m sitting here for the 3rd time with nothing.

I’m really sorry you’re facing this, especially with the time, effort, and funds invested in this goal. I used to review research applications as well as conduct hiring at several levels, from interns to research directors, and one thought I have is- do you think it’s possible it could be associated with your written presentation, versus your stats? How strong do you think your personal statement/essays are? Have you passed them out to mentors and/or others for edits, did they say anything positive or negative? I’m sure you have, but figured I’d ask.

Sometimes, the tone/topics chosen can lead to a denial, even if everything else is good. I know written submissions/communication/perceived professionalism were a huge influence at my prior organization. In this line, I’d think strength of written submissions could be especially important at the more “holistic” schools. They may not favor academics as heavily, but they still get so many applications, and they have to make choices based on something tangible. Strong essays could be that tangible thing that gets your foot in the door.

Not saying at all that it’s anything more than bad luck, just a thought from someone who has been on the other side of application processes, albeit far outside of vet med.

 

[turtle36]

I’m really sorry you’re facing this, especially with the time, effort, and funds invested in this goal. I used to review research applications as well as conduct hiring at several levels, from interns to research directors, and one thought I have is- do you think it’s possible it could be associated with your written presentation, versus your stats? How strong do you think personal statement/essays are? Have you passed them out to mentors and/or others for edits, did they say anything positive or negative? I’m sure you have, but figured I’d ask.

Sometimes, the tone/topics chosen can lead to a denial, even if everything else is good. I know written submissions/communication/perceived professionalism were a huge influence at my prior organization. In this line, I’d think strength of written submissions could be especially important at the more “holistic” schools. They may not favor academics as heavily, but they still get so many applications, and they have to make choices based on something tangible. Strong essays could be that tangible thing that gets your foot in the door.

Not saying at all that it’s anything more than bad luck, just a thought from someone who has been on the other side of application processes, albeit far outside of vet med.

I had several of my essays reviewed and edited by several veterinarians and also just people generally just good at writing.

I think the process we are experiencing is grossly different than even 5 years ago. The removal of so many prerequisites, the GRE, and minimal veterinary hours has caused this many people to be eligible for applying. Seeing several students get interviews with 500 hours or less is demoralizing

 

[indysadventures]

The removal of so many prerequisites, the GRE, and minimal veterinary hours has caused this many people to be eligible for applying. Seeing several students get interviews with 500 hours or less is demoralizing

I am going to gently push back about this - just because the process has changed doesn’t mean that non-competitive or otherwise unsuitable applicants are receiving interviews and admissions.

I’ve worked in education - standardized tests bring little value to an application process that cannot be gleaned from other sources. Further, studies show that such tests favor white, upper class students. As a former educator, I’m happy the GRE was removed.

Prerequisites being removed would be news to me - I’m a non-trad with a BA, and I’ve been preparing for this cycle for two years. I applied to 11 schools and if anything it seems like prerequisites, at least at some institutions, are transitioning towards those with meaningful applications, like advanced biomedical sciences. CSU comes to mind, Cornell following suit with changes for next year.

Finally, I think that requiring at least 500 hours would deny opportunities to some excellent candidates - it is not the quantity of the hours, but the quality, that really matters. It’s not what you did, it’s what you’ve learned and how you’ll apply it to your career.

While I’m creeping towards 2k hours, I think as an older student, I had similar commitment to the field even with a few hundred hours. Have I learned more since I hit the 500-hour mark? Absolutely. But I’m lucky - I have been able to finagle my way through the last two years and gain more experience than expected. Others like me do not have such luck, and have to apply with lower hours. I don’t think that makes them unworthy candidates.

Everyone has something of value to offer, and a balanced applicant with lower hours but demonstrated commitment shouldn’t be barred from application, especially since low hours can be the result of socioeconomic barriers, etc.

 

[turtle36]

I am going to gently push back about this - just because the process has changed doesn’t mean that non-competitive or otherwise unsuitable applicants are receiving interviews and admissions.

I’ve worked in education - standardized tests bring little value to an application process that cannot be gleaned from other sources. Further, studies show that such tests favor white, upper class students. As a former educator, I’m happy the GRE was removed.

Prerequisites being removed would be news to me - I’m a non-trad with a BA, and I’ve been preparing for this cycle for two years. I applied to 11 schools and if anything it seems like prerequisites, at least at some institutions, are transitioning towards those with meaningful applications, like advanced biomedical sciences. CSU comes to mind, Cornell following suit with changes for next year.

Finally, I think that requiring at least 500 hours would deny opportunities to some excellent candidates - it is not the quantity of the hours, but the quality, that really matters. It’s not what you did, it’s what you’ve learned and how you’ll apply it to your career.

While I’m creeping towards 2k hours, I think as an older student, I had similar commitment to the field even with a few hundred hours. Have I learned more since I hit the 500-hour mark? Absolutely. But I’m lucky - I have been able to finagle my way through the last two years and gain more experience than expected. Others like me do not have such luck, and have to apply with lower hours. I don’t think that makes them unworthy candidates.

Everyone has something of value to offer, and a balanced applicant with lower hours but demonstrated commitment shouldn’t be barred from application, especially since low hours can be the result of socioeconomic barriers, etc.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of hours. Especially in this day and age age, 500 hours in the minimum amount of time someone should be spending in this field before they continue on to a higher degree. 500 hours is not that many to begin with, this is 2-3 summers spent primarily working with a veterinarian. That’s before we take into account the amount of people leaving the field because they were grossly unprepared for the realities of it. I think veterinary hours are more beneficial for the applicant than to the schools they’re applying. Veterinary hours shouldn’t be done simply to have something to put on an application, yet that seems to be the general trend now that many schools allow you to apply with 0 hours (not recommended).

I’m also not a fan of standardized tests but if schools don’t implement some more stringent cut offs, they’re going to continue to drown in the number of applicants they get.

 

[simba18]

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I strongly disagree with your assessment of hours. Especially in this day and age age, [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] hours in the minimum amount of time someone should be spending in this field before they continue on to a higher degree. [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] hours is not that many to begin with, this is [emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]-[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]] summers spent primarily working with a veterinarian. That’s before we take into account the amount of people leaving the field because they were grossly unprepared for the realities of it. I think veterinary hours are more beneficial for the applicant than to the schools they’re applying. Veterinary hours shouldn’t be done simply to have something to put on an application, yet that seems to be the general trend now that many schools allow you to apply with [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] hours (not recommended).

I’m also not a fan of standardized tests but if schools don’t implement some more stringent cut offs, they’re going to continue to drown in the number of applicants they get.

Genuinely asking if then you think people shouldn’t be able to apply out of undergrad then? I was able to get over a thousand hours thru my undergrad but this was because I was fortunate enough to not need an extra financial income higher than a new veterinary assistant and had someone willing to hire me with little-no experience. If I didn’t have these options though, I would probably be with much less experience. I am not trying to argue but genuinely see your side and opinion. I wish you luck with your future endeavors, whether it’s in or outside vet med!

 

[turtle36]

Genuinely asking if then you think people shouldn’t be able to apply out of undergrad then? I was able to get [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]].[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]k hours thru my undergrad but this was because I was fortunate enough to not need an extra financial income higher than a new veterinary assistant and had someone willing to higher me with little-no experience. If I didn’t have these options though, I would probably be with much less experience. I am not trying to argue but genuinely see your side and opinion. I wish you luck with your future endeavors, whether it’s in our outside vet med!

Hey your comment is really difficult to read but I think I got everything.

So when I said they could work for
2-3 summers primarily with a veterinarian, I was giving a rough example of how a lot of people used to obtain veterinary hours and also apply right out of undergrad back when they had hours. This is exactly what one of the first vets I shadowed did. I do not think it’s asking a lot for applicants to show they have been exposed to the tough realities that this field has in-store and prove they can handle the stress they face.


As for applying right out of undergrad, is there any program that exists, vet med or not, where that sort of requirement exists? I do not think there’s a way to even implement something like that. I do think students with advanced degrees should be considered before anyone with just an undergraduate degree, but that’s a different conversation.

 

[supershorty]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the emoji thing, but I'm on the case 🔍

 

[supershorty]

@simba18 What platform are you using to post, the Tapatalk app or a browser, and if browser, which one?

 

[indysadventures]

I strongly disagree with your assessment of hours. Especially in this day and age age, 500 hours in the minimum amount of time someone should be spending in this field before they continue on to a higher degree. 500 hours is not that many to begin with, this is 2-3 summers spent primarily working with a veterinarian. That’s before we take into account the amount of people leaving the field because they were grossly unprepared for the realities of it. I think veterinary hours are more beneficial for the applicant than to the schools they’re applying. Veterinary hours shouldn’t be done simply to have something to put on an application, yet that seems to be the general trend now that many schools allow you to apply with 0 hours (not recommended).

I’m also not a fan of standardized tests but if schools don’t implement some more stringent cut offs, they’re going to continue to drown in the number of applicants they get.

I can’t say much beyond what I’ve already said because I’m not an expert in vet med nor vet school admissions, but I think an open, accessible admissions process with limited barriers to application promotes diversity. And diversity across a variety of parameters can only benefit veterinary medicine in the long term. I wish you well and hope this season brings you success.

 

[simba18]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]" data-quote="supershorty" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

What platform are you using to post, the Tapatalk app or a browser, and if browser, which one?

SDN app if that’s the same as tapatalk? I logged out and back in earlier and it fixed temporarily but not anymore haha

 

[battie]

@supershorty this emoji thing is pretty common across all the threads I'm going through right now.

I actually agree with @turtle36 that applicants should have a large number of hours, but not so that it limits the number of applicants. It's so that they get a good idea of what the field is like. There is a point where number of hours no longer conveys that. I don't think someone with 5000 hours has a much better idea about this field compared to someone with 1000, for example. As someone else said, quality matters as much as quantity. It's hard to argue though that someone with a single summer of experience is well prepared considering the big variation between clinics.

In regards to people with advanced degrees getting first dibs at evaluation, that wouldn't necessarily mean they get picked compared to if they're evaluated in the middle or end of the pack. They'd get the same evaluation regardless of when in the system they're evaluated if the parameters they're being evaluated for are the same. If those with advanced degrees should be given preferential treatment.... hard sell to me. I've heard people tell me their master's was easier than their undergrad degree before for a variety of reasons (better able to focus cause more interesting, more mature individual, etc.). Being able to complete a research degree with proficiency doesn't mean that same person would be able to complete a clinical degree with the same proficiency. My PhD undergrad professors were great at what they did; half of them would have been terrible clinicians, however.

 

[supershorty]

@supershorty this emoji thing is pretty common across all the threads I'm going through right now.

Yes, it's an issue that we're aware of that, as far as I know, has been limited to the app, but one of the more tech-savvy mods knows more about it than I do and I'm waiting to hear back from them.

My single solution of

has not fixed it thus far.

 

[vampyrica]

Hey your comment is really difficult to read but I think I got everything.

So when I said they could work for
2-3 summers primarily with a veterinarian, I was giving a rough example of how a lot of people used to obtain veterinary hours and also apply right out of undergrad back when they had hours. This is exactly what one of the first vets I shadowed did. I do not think it’s asking a lot for applicants to show they have been exposed to the tough realities that this field has in-store and prove they can handle the stress they face.


As for applying right out of undergrad, is there any program that exists, vet med or not, where that sort of requirement exists? I do not think there’s a way to even implement something like that. I do think students with advanced degrees should be considered before anyone with just an undergraduate degree, but that’s a different conversation.

I disagree with this. I think graduate courses should be **considered more heavily than they are**, however reviewing people with advanced degrees first, giving them interviews and acceptances and then looking at undergrad degrees or non-degree holding applicants and then accepting a handful is simply not the way to go. Anyone can complete a masters online, with different expectations, asynchronous courses and non-proctored testing. Not saying every masters degree or advanced degree/certificate is this way, but there are a few and I would argue that could make things "easier". All advanced degrees are different in regard to rigor, academics, expectations, research etc etc. It is hard to hold different standards to different types of degree holders. Therefore the easiest solution is to go based off of something almost everyone would have completed; undergrad courses.

And for those who cannot afford an advanced degree, that limits them. Some people bust their ass financially just to get through undergrad. No loans, working fulltime and part time ontop of taking courses.

Some schools offer different applications for those with a DO, MD, or PhD who wish to switch to vet med. Kansas State is one that comes to mind. However the bottom line is, the field is getting more and more competitive. I know people with triple majors who have 3.6/3.7 GPA, experience, research, volunteer and non-vet med employement, and I would argue they absolutely deserve to be interviewed and considered. There is so much that is factored into a decision, and I am thankful it is no longer so black and white that all schools look at is your cGPA. Everyone is so unique, it is virtually impossible to find someone with the exact same stats, hours, experience, and background as you. But that's what makes this field so great.

I am sorry you have felt so frustrated with the outcome of this cycle so far, and I sympathize with you. I truly do and I wish you dont allow this to deter you from re-applying or having hope for the rest of the cycle (I'm unsure how many schools you have left to hear from). There are still a handful of schools that offer file reviews, I know for sure Cornell is one of them as I got one last year. LMU does them as well. I heard Miss State and Minnesota do them as well. If those are schools you applied to and do not hear positive news from, def reach out.

 

[supershorty]

My single solution of

has not fixed it thus far.

Ironically, the solution is actually to delete the app and then reinstall it. @simba18

So, in fact, a variation of my solution, and I'm basically an IT genius. Who knew.

 

[supershorty]

Oh dear.

I'll move this to PMs.

 

[turtle36]

I disagree with this. I think graduate courses should be **considered more heavily than they are**, however reviewing people with advanced degrees first, giving them interviews and acceptances and then looking at undergrad degrees or non-degree holding applicants and then accepting a handful is simply not the way to go. Anyone can complete a masters online, with different expectations, asynchronous courses and non-proctored testing. Not saying every masters degree or advanced degree/certificate is this way, but there are a few and I would argue that could make things "easier". All advanced degrees are different in regard to rigor, academics, expectations, research etc etc. It is hard to hold different standards to different types of degree holders. Therefore the easiest solution is to go based off of something almost everyone would have completed; undergrad courses.

And for those who cannot afford an advanced degree, that limits them. Some people bust their ass financially just to get through undergrad. No loans, working fulltime and part time ontop of taking courses.

Some schools offer different applications for those with a DO, MD, or PhD who wish to switch to vet med. Kansas State is one that comes to mind. However the bottom line is, the field is getting more and more competitive. I know people with triple majors who have 3.6/3.7 GPA, experience, research, volunteer and non-vet med employement, and I would argue they absolutely deserve to be interviewed and considered. There is so much that is factored into a decision, and I am thankful it is no longer so black and white that all schools look at is your cGPA. Everyone is so unique, it is virtually impossible to find someone with the exact same stats, hours, experience, and background as you. But that's what makes this field so great.

I am sorry you have felt so frustrated with the outcome of this cycle so far, and I sympathize with you. I truly do and I wish you dont allow this to deter you from re-applying or having hope for the rest of the cycle (I'm unsure how many schools you have left to hear from). There are still a handful of schools that offer file reviews, I know for sure Cornell is one of them as I got one last year. LMU does them as well. I heard Miss State and Minnesota do them as well. If those are schools you applied to and do not hear positive news from, def reach out.

I mean this with so much kindness and respect but can you try and persuade me as to why I should reapply? I have done nothing but improve each year, to the point where I now have a masters I can use to get a job that pays me comparatively to what a lot of new grad vets are making. I had a file review with Ohio State 2 cycles ago and they told me then I was a good applicant who picked a bad year due to the “record number of applicants”(seems to be a common theme as of recent). I feel utterly defeated and as someone who works in the field, I’m pretty aware of our current trajectory as our support staff continues to exit in droves. I also cant stand how private equity is squeezing the life out of veterinary medicine. I sit here with all of these realities in front of me also acknowledging that I just dropped $2k on applying for rejections. I’ve never felt this low quite honestly and I really hate feeling this inadequate. I’m embarrassed, degraded, and defeated.

 

[indysadventures]

Ironically, the solution is actually to delete the app and then reinstall it. @simba18

So, in fact, a variation of my solution, and I'm basically an IT genius. Who knew.

Hahahahaha I laughed out loud.

 

[vampyrica]

I mean this with so much kindness and respect but can you try and persuade me as to why I should reapply? I have done nothing but improve each year, to the point where I now have a masters I can use to get a job that pays me comparatively to what a lot of new grad vets are making. I had a file review with Ohio State 2 cycles ago and they told me then I was a good applicant who picked a bad year due to the “record number of applicants”(seems to be a common theme as of recent). I feel utterly defeated and as someone who works in the field, I’m pretty aware of our current trajectory as our support staff continues to exit in droves. I also cant stand how private equity is squeezing the life out of veterinary medicine. I sit here with all of these realities in front of me also acknowledging that I just dropped $2k on applying for rejections. I’ve never felt this low quite honestly and I really hate feeling this inadequate. I’m embarrassed, degraded, and defeated.

Because you have clearly worked your butt off to earn your spot in a DVM program. You have gone to the extent of getting a masters, you clearly want this bad. You deserve to try as many times as you can mentally and financially handle until they recognize what they have been missing all this time. What are you interested in pursuing if I may ask? Your Masters in Microbiology makes me think research or laboratory medicine. Is this true or am I misunderstanding? Please correct me if I am wrong, I would love to hear what you're aiming for!

I'm sure you've done your research but I will ask anyway and you can answer honestly. Have you applied to programs which will give you your best shot? You mentioned somewhere your GPA's are no less than 3.3's, is this with the masters or without? If its undergrad pre-reqs that are holding you back, did you retake them or take upper level courses of that same topic to prove you understand the content? Are you letters of rec guaranteed to be stellar? Do you have diversity in your hours? Was there a break at any point where you did not work in vet med? Was there spelling errors in your essays? Did you misunderstand a prompt? I am sure you triple and quadruple checked your stats and application so I am not doubting the quality of your work or efforts.

Each applicant will benefit from a different program. Can you say with 100% certainty that you applied to programs that will benefit you the most?

 

[PlumPoppy]

It's infuriating to see people with GPA’s below mine as well as having less veterinary hours get interviews while I’m sitting here for the 3rd time with nothing.

I feel your pain truly. This is my 3rd cycle and I've never even received an interview. I'm on 9/10 rejections across all 3 cycles, and it sucks. I understand these recurring feelings of embarrassment, rejection, and envy every cycle. But please do not diminish the hard work of those who've recieved interviews and acceptances. There's already a lot of imposter syndrome in this field, and I would hate to see a fellow DVM hopeful perpetuating it.

ETA: If I completely misread this post, I'm sorry. I resonated with these feelings and it lead me to very bitter comparisons. I remind myself that we're not all just numbers, and simply comparing yourself to other applicants in this way is unfair to both.

 

[vampyrica]

I feel your pain truly. This is my 3rd cycle and I've never even received an interview. I'm on 9/10 rejections across all 3 cycles, and it sucks. I understand these recurring feelings of embarrassment, rejection, and envy every cycle. But please do not diminish the hard work of those who've recieved interviews and acceptances. There's already a lot of imposter syndrome in this field, and I'd hate to see a fellow DVM hopeful perpetuating it.

To play devils advocate, I am sure their intent is not to diminish the achievements and work of others but rather to try to understand why those without similar statistics are moving forward in the process while they are not.

However, I agree that the way it comes across can be hurtful and make others feel inadequate and undeserving of their work.

 

[PlumPoppy]

To play devils advocate, I am sure their intent is not to diminish the achievements and work of others but rather to try to understand why those without similar statistics are moving forward in the process while they are not.

However, I agree that the way it comes across can be hurtful and make others feel inadequate and undeserving of their work.

No, I get that. I've felt and thought these things myself. It's perfectly valid to feel this way and vent these frustrations (obviously on the rant thread lol.) I wasn't trying to negate that.

It was more of a message that strictly comparing GPAs/hours is unfair to yourself and other applicants. There's so much more going into an application (as mentioned in previous posts), and there will always be people with different stats, higher and lower, being admitted to various schools.

 

[vampyrica]

No, I get that. I've felt and thought these things myself. It's perfectly valid to feel this way and vent these frustrations (obviously on the rant thread lol.) I wasn't trying to negate that.

It was more of a message that strictly comparing GPAs/hours is unfair to yourself and other applicants. There's so much more going into an application (as mentioned in previous posts), and there will always be people with different stats, higher and lower, being admitted to various schools.

Agreed!

 

[turtle36]

I feel your pain truly. This is my 3rd cycle and I've never even received an interview. I'm on 9/10 rejections across all 3 cycles, and it sucks. I understand these recurring feelings of embarrassment, rejection, and envy every cycle. But please do not diminish the hard work of those who've recieved interviews and acceptances. There's already a lot of imposter syndrome in this field, and I would hate to see a fellow DVM hopeful perpetuating it.

ETA: If I completely misread this post, I'm sorry. I resonated with these feelings and it lead me to very bitter comparisons. I remind myself that we're not all just numbers, and simply comparing yourself to other applicants in this way is unfair to both.

You misread this. Considering there is no file review for the vast majority of schools, we can really only base things around who post they got interviews. I’m simply using the information available to me, and since hours and GPA are very heavily weighted I don’t think it’s unfair to base my stats off anyone else’s here. I would never say anything isn’t deserving of anything they’ve worked for. I appreciate the edit, but yeah you missed the mark of why I even brought that up.

 

[turtle36]

Because you have clearly worked your butt off to earn your spot in a DVM program. You have gone to the extent of getting a masters, you clearly want this bad. You deserve to try as many times as you can mentally and financially handle until they recognize what they have been missing all this time. What are you interested in pursuing if I may ask? Your Masters in Microbiology makes me think research or laboratory medicine. Is this true or am I misunderstanding? Please correct me if I am wrong, I would love to hear what you're aiming for!

I'm sure you've done your research but I will ask anyway and you can answer honestly. Have you applied to programs which will give you your best shot? You mentioned somewhere your GPA's are no less than 3.3's, is this with the masters or without? If its undergrad pre-reqs that are holding you back, did you retake them or take upper level courses of that same topic to prove you understand the content? Are you letters of rec guaranteed to be stellar? Do you have diversity in your hours? Was there a break at any point where you did not work in vet med? Was there spelling errors in your essays? Did you misunderstand a prompt? I am sure you triple and quadruple checked your stats and application so I am not doubting the quality of your work or efforts.

Each applicant will benefit from a different program. Can you say with 100% certainty that you applied to programs that will benefit you the most?

Honestly I can’t even respond to the first part of this message without getting upset. It’s really hard to talk about goals and aspersions right now given that they just essentially got ripped out from under me. I appreciate your kind words.

To everything in your 2nd and 3rd paragraph, unfortunately yes I have already gone through these portions of my applications and can’t find major issues. My experience is probably the strongest part of my application with multiple specialties, types of practices, and species variety. My undergrad GPA is not significantly different, I have a lot of completed credits and even with my masters it did not move much. I’ve checked for any errors in the application itself and found none. In terms of schools, I’m limited to certain locations. My animals prevent any international schools from being an option. I applied to schools that were conducive to my interests.

 

[channie]

Anyone can complete a masters online, with different expectations, asynchronous courses and non-proctored testing.

Just coming here to say that my online masters program is not easy, we still have to conduct research and write theses like everyone else does 🙃

 

[vampyrica]

Just coming here to say that my online masters program is not easy, we still have to conduct research and write theses like everyone else does 🙃

Right and I understand that, hence why I said "Not saying every masters degree or advanced degree/certificate is this way, but there are a few and I would argue that could make things "easier". All advanced degrees are different in regard to rigor, academics, expectations, research etc etc."

 

[vampyrica]

Honestly I can’t even respond to the first part of this message without getting upset. It’s really hard to talk about goals and aspersions right now given that they just essentially got ripped out from under me. I appreciate your kind words.

To everything in your 2nd and 3rd paragraph, unfortunately yes I have already gone through these portions of my applications and can’t find major issues. My experience is probably the strongest part of my application with multiple specialties, types of practices, and species variety. My undergrad GPA is not significantly different, I have a lot of completed credits and even with my masters it did not move much. I’ve checked for any errors in the application itself and found none. In terms of schools, I’m limited to certain locations. My animals prevent any international schools from being an option. I applied to schools that were conducive to my interests.

And that is 100% okay.

I'm sure you have and setting boundaries is totally okay too! Are they cGPA heavy schools or last 45 and pre-req? Or do they consider all 3 of your GPAs?

 

[turtle36]

Just coming here to say that my online masters program is not easy, we still have to conduct research and write theses like everyone else does 🙃

Right and I understand that, hence why I said "Not saying every masters degree or advanced degree/certificate is this way, but there are a few and I would argue that could make things "easier". All advanced degrees are different in regard to rigor, academics, expectations, research etc etc."

I completely missed that comment but actually @vampyrica this comment does feel a little insulting. I do not know of any schools handing out degrees and I would be lying if I said any of my undergraduate classes compared in difficulty to my masters level courses. I don’t think you meant to offend anyone but I strongly disagree with that assessment, every one of my assessments were proctored, even my Bioinformatics course where we had to use google.

In the age of AI I’m significantly more concerned about undergraduates than master’s students. I’ve yet to see anyone successfully write a thesis using AI, yet I’ve seen countless stories AI being used to do homework or write responses in undergraduate spaces. AI usage is almost normalized on many of these campuses and I think that is a much larger issue than online masters programs.

 

[turtle36]

And that is 100% okay.

I'm sure you have and setting boundaries is totally okay too! Are they cGPA heavy schools or last 45 and pre-req? Or do they consider all 3 of your GPAs?

I applied to schools who typically look at all three, prioritizing schools that seemed to be recently choosing more non-traditional students and lower GPA applicants. I’m sure in hindsight I would change some of these options but overall I was happy with my choices

 

[Tech_Penguin]

My animals prevent any international schools from being an option. I applied to schools that were conducive to my interests.

I don’t mean to come across as cynical, but have you considered leaving your pets in the care of a friend or family member so you can apply internationally? It would suck but you’ll still be able to visit them during breaks

 

[turtle36]

I don’t mean to come across as cynical, but have you considered leaving your pets in the care of a friend or family member so you can apply internationally? It would suck but you’ll still be able to visit them during breaks

It’s not an option and international schools are not financially feasible. There is no world where that amount if debt is practical to me personally.

 

[vampyrica]

I completely missed that comment but actually @vampyrica this comment does feel a little insulting. I do not know of any schools handing out degrees and I would be lying if I said any of my undergraduate classes compared in difficulty to my masters level courses. I don’t think you meant to offend anyone but I strongly disagree with that assessment, every one of my assessments were proctored, even my Bioinformatics course where we had to use google.

In the age of AI I’m significantly more concerned about undergraduates than master’s students. I’ve yet to see anyone successfully write a thesis using AI, yet I’ve seen countless stories AI being used to do homework or write responses in undergraduate spaces. AI usage is almost normalized on many of these campuses and I think that is a much larger issue than online masters programs.

I agree with your statement that AI is being used more and more for coursework. I would wanna assume that it’s going down to the middle-school level of students using things like ChatGPT to write their essays and get homework answers. I agree, it’s worrying and should not be normalized.

I apologize if my comment offended you, that was not my intent hence why I had stated that they are not all the same. For example, I am taking courses which are part of a Biosecurity Certification (but I’m not getting the certification, just took a class that looked interesting and relates to my field) and I had zero proctoring for my mid-term. All on Canvas with just trust that we wont cheat. I didn’t cheat of course because what good does that do, but I have seen personal examples of upper level courses (this is a 500 level course) be “easy.” Again, I am sure your degree was rigorous and you had to spend many sleepless nights studying.

However, I do believe there are “easier” graduate certifications and courses available online. That is just my opinion and observation. I would like to reiterate and I believe all degrees hold different rigor and expectations, dependent upon the program.

I appreciate that we can have a healthy and civil conversation about this and appreciate your insight!

 

[vampyrica]

I applied to schools who typically look at all three, prioritizing schools that seemed to be recently choosing more non-traditional students and lower GPA applicants. I’m sure in hindsight I would change some of these options but overall I was happy with my choices

That’s great! Non-trad vets make this field so unique. Which of your GPA’s are the strongest? or are they all around the same?

If you’re in the same boat as me, where your “main 3” GPA’s are the same, but your pre-req is competitive, you might benefit from applying to programs that put a stronger emphasis on that GPA. However, I had read in a previous post you were interested in possibly leaving your state to go somewhere where you felt safer so I understand that it’s not possible to just apply wherever simply because.

I still believe you deserve a spot in this field. Did you apply back to back or take a gap year? I apologize if I missed that information somewhere.

 

[vampyrica]

I’d just like to add! My point in stating that some certifications/degrees online might be “easier”, was to say that its difficult to uphold the same standards and expectations across the board.

Anyone can complete a masters online, with different expectations, asynchronous courses and non-proctored testing. Not saying every masters degree or advanced degree/certificate is this way, but there are a few and I would argue that could make things "easier". All advanced degrees are different in regard to rigor, academics, expectations, research etc etc. It is hard to hold different standards to different types of degree holders. Therefore the easiest solution is to go based off of something almost everyone would have completed; undergrad courses.

If I were to go through with this certificate program I am “enrolled” in, I would argue it was easier than your Masters degree. I’m sure your Masters was way more time consuming and rigorous than these 4 courses which are part of the certificate.

I would argue this certificate would be easier than an in-person Masters or an online Masters. But since it counts as an advanced degree, it would be considered in the same pool as Masters holders.

I have nothing against online Masters programs and was considering completing one myself! I’m sure they are time consuming and require a-lot of assignments while simultaneously working on your thesis. It is difficult.

Again, I am really happy we can have a civil and healthy conversation about this as I am genuinely interested in learning others experiences. I appreciate any and all insight on people’s personal experiences with such and my intention is never to undermine or insult anyone and their academic accomplishments! You all worked super hard and I am proud to see that we will all be colleagues one day 🙂

 

[turtle36]

That’s great! Non-trad vets make this field so unique. Which of your GPA’s are the strongest? or are they all around the same?

If you’re in the same boat as me, where your “main 3” GPA’s are the same, but your pre-req is competitive, you might benefit from applying to programs that put a stronger emphasis on that GPA. However, I had read in a previous post you were interested in possibly leaving your state to go somewhere where you felt safer so I understand that it’s not possible to just apply wherever simply because.

I still believe you deserve a spot in this field. Did you apply back to back or take a gap year? I apologize if I missed that information somewhere.

My science and cGPA are both ~3.4 with my last 45 being higher than I initially calculated at 3.75. My masters GPA is a 3.6

I graduated undergrad in 2020 and have been working as a technician in a specialty hospital since. I keep applying and failing. I’ve taken 4 years of post graduate courses and nothing has substantially changed.

 

[turtle36]

I appreciate that we can have a healthy and civil conversation about this and appreciate your insight!

I think we can all give each other some grace during these times. I once misspoke on here and got berated for it, despite clarifying and apologizing. It made me feel terrible about myself. Since then I’ve tried to aim for overtly kind conversations, even when I’m upset because I’d rather not contribute to that toxicity
.

 

[vampyrica]

My science and cGPA are both ~3.4 with my last 45 being higher than I initially calculated at 3.75. My masters GPA is a 3.6

I graduated undergrad in 2020 and have been working as a technician in a specialty hospital since. I keep applying and failing. I’ve taken 4 years of post graduate courses and nothing has substantially changed.

Last 45 is quite competitive! How many schools do you have left to hear from?

Have you considered a gap year? Genuine question. It gives you the opportunity to re-group, re-thinking and take a different approach to your application. It also gives you the opportunity to save money, make new connections and enjoy the little things in life.

 

[vampyrica]

I think we can all give each other some grace during these times. I once misspoke on here and got berated for it, despite clarifying and apologizing. It made me feel terrible about myself. Since then I’ve tried to aim for overtly kind conversations, even when I’m upset because I’d rather not contribute to that toxicity
.

I think your responses are wonderfully written! Yeah emotions are high, aren’t they always around the holidays? Haha “Happiest time of the year”— so then why do I feel so sad 🤪

 

[deleted1205160]

I think your responses are wonderfully written! Yeah emotions are high, aren’t they always around the holidays? Haha “Happiest time of the year”— so then why do I feel so sad 🤪

Happiest time of the year...unless you're a vet school candidate and awaiting decisions. LOL.

 

[turtle36]

Last 45 is quite competitive! How many schools do you have left to hear from?

Have you considered a gap year? Genuine question. It gives you the opportunity to re-group, re-thinking and take a different approach to your application. It also gives you the opportunity to save money, make new connections and enjoy the little things in life.

I’ve been taking gap years since 2020. I only was a full time student for one semester of my masters and I was beyond sleep deprived doing that. I’ve been working full-time since. I hate my current living situation, but the cost of living is astronomical so I can’t move on a vet tech’s salary right now.

I still have 7 schools to hear back from but at this point I think 3 of those I can almost guarantee are rejections

 

[phenomenology]

Happiest time of the year...unless you're a vet school candidate and awaiting decisions. LOL.

Obviously, ignore me if this isn't helpful; I'm framing this time waiting as something to be grateful for and savor as the last of how my current inner and outer world is right now before things out of my current control (apps submitted and we can't alter anything about them right!) change consequentially - either in the chaos and unknown of starting and going to vet school, staring down the barrel of applying again, or even moving on if things just aren't meant to be!

 

[battie]

@supershorty

 

[supershorty]

mod request [mention]supershorty [/mention]

Oh, I meant make a new thread, but for @WildWing ’s info, this happened

 

[pp9]

however reviewing people with advanced degrees first, giving them interviews and acceptances and then looking at undergrad degrees or non-degree holding applicants and then accepting a handful is simply not the way to go.

Also pushes students with vet school dreams to pursue potentially costly degrees that they have no intention of actually using.

I mean this with so much kindness and respect but can you try and persuade me as to why I should reapply? I have done nothing but improve each year, to the point where I now have a masters I can use to get a job that pays me comparatively to what a lot of new grad vets are making. I had a file review with Ohio State 2 cycles ago and they told me then I was a good applicant who picked a bad year due to the “record number of applicants”(seems to be a common theme as of recent). I feel utterly defeated and as someone who works in the field, I’m pretty aware of our current trajectory as our support staff continues to exit in droves. I also cant stand how private equity is squeezing the life out of veterinary medicine. I sit here with all of these realities in front of me also acknowledging that I just dropped $2k on applying for rejections. I’ve never felt this low quite honestly and I really hate feeling this inadequate. I’m embarrassed, degraded, and defeated.

So for the record, I know @turtle36 personally and I'd say I know them pretty darn well, at least in the context of dying together on ER for several years which = trauma bonding. Turtle, I do not want to pressure you and absolutely respect your decision not to reapply should this cycle not work out. I am not trying to call you out here in a negative way, but I've spoken with you as recently as last night and pointed out as gently as I could (and you know me...lol) that there is definitely room for improvement on things outside of academics. I want you to succeed and achieve everything you want in life, but again, I totally respect moving on.

Of course I cannot guarantee success, and I do not serve on adcoms beyond being an interviewer at multiple schools. With that said, I've reviewed apps, personal statements, supplemental essays, etc. for many prevets over the years. The personal statement is more important than most people realize, your school choices matter beyond 'where you want to go for four years,' and an average/slightly subpar letter can absolutely ruin an otherwise 'average' application (although it is hard to know if this is the case unless someone on an adcom tells you). These things become even more important when your academic stats are not super high.

My science and cGPA are both ~3.4 with my last 45 being higher than I initially calculated at 3.75. My masters GPA is a 3.6

I graduated undergrad in 2020 and have been working as a technician in a specialty hospital since. I keep applying and failing. I’ve taken 4 years of post graduate courses and nothing has substantially changed.

Ignoring the recalculation, these are not the numbers you posted in the WAMC thread? What changed?

 

[battie]

Also not in regards to Turtle specifically, but as a general statement: we're at the point where there are too many qualified applicants for everyone who wants to be a veterinarian to become one. And I don't think we're going back to the days of a 2/3 chance of getting a spot if you're an average applicant or better (approximately the chances when I was applying). An applicant can do everything right and still not be picked for a spot.

Picking a degree (whether undergraduate or beyond) that can give you a feasible backup plan is more important now than ever. That's another ding against getting a masters for the sake of getting into vet school. If you wouldn't use the degree for an alternative career, don't get that degree.

 

[kotarose]

the worst part of this who application process is the waiting.. at least during the first part i could keep myself busy but the waiting is like torture

 

[turtle36]

So for the record, I know @turtle36 personally and I'd say I know them pretty darn well, at least in the context of dying together on ER for several years which = trauma bonding. Turtle, I do not want to pressure you and absolutely respect your decision not to reapply should this cycle not work out. I am not trying to call you out here in a negative way, but I've spoken with you as recently as last night and pointed out as gently as I could (and you know me...lol) that there is definitely room for improvement on things outside of academics. I want you to succeed and achieve everything you want in life, but again, I totally respect moving on.

Yesterday was a lot harder than today. Most of my posts on this thread were before our conversation. We talked about written portions of my applications; if you have a better idea about things to improve other parts of my application I would obviously be open to hearing that. I'll be honest I'm not really 100% sure what other parts of my app you are referring to, as I'm pretty sure practical experience is probably not the area I'm lacking but I feel like that's what you're implying?

Of course I cannot guarantee success, and I do not serve on adcoms beyond being an interviewer at multiple schools. With that said, I've reviewed apps, personal statements, supplemental essays, etc. for many prevets over the years. The personal statement is more important than most people realize, your school choices matter beyond 'where you want to go for four years,' and an average/slightly subpar letter can absolutely ruin an otherwise 'average' application (although it is hard to know if this is the case unless someone on an adcom tells you). These things become even more important when your academic stats are not super high.

Nope, I understand our texts from yesterday. I feel like you may think one of my letters is also bad, but I sincerely doubt this based on a previous file review that I had with Ohio State. They suggested more classes (another reason I did my master's) and looking potentially at more research hours as I have some, but not many. I would like to believe a bad letter would have been in the feedback.

Ignoring the recalculation, these are not the numbers you posted in the WAMC thread? What changed?

I miscalculated my GPA on that post. I have A LOT of credits and I think I double-counted some. This what was VMCAS reported. I believe I texted you this update back awhile ago, but apologies for any confusion.

 

[justachillgirl]

Hi! there is an overwhelming amount of replies on this forum, so can anyone reply with how they found out if they made a mistake on their transcript submission thing? I never heard anything back from VMCAS but skimming through this thread made me second-guess myself.