real trouble with rank list

[premed1234567891011]

Having trouble making my rank list after my #1. Wanted some input on experiences people have had with the following residencies:
Cleveland Clinic
UPMC
UFlorida
Sinai
NYU
Wake Forest
Hopkins
WashU
UTSW
UTMB
In particular, I feel pretty equally about WashU, UPMC, Cleveland, and Hopkins.

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[Peterluger]

Having trouble making my rank list after my #1. Wanted some input on experiences people have had with the following residencies:
Cleveland Clinic
UPMC
UFlorida
Sinai
NYU
Wake Forest
Hopkins
WashU
UTSW
UTMB
In particular, I feel pretty equally about WashU, UPMC, Cleveland, and Hopkins.

Sinai is very, very Jewish if that’s your thing. Also incredibly informal to the point that it’s sickening, i.e. calling 65 year old attendings by their first names which in my opinion is awkward af. But they’re probably average or above average when compared to programs nationally. I wouldn’t say below average.

NYU has a weird inferiority complex, because in reality they’re a middle tier program but don’t perceive themselves as such.

if you can get Columbia, go there. Otherwise i’d stay away from NYC if i have places like cleveland clinic, hopkins and washu lined up

 

[abolt18]

Having trouble making my rank list after my #1. Wanted some input on experiences people have had with the following residencies:
Cleveland Clinic
UPMC
UFlorida
Sinai
NYU
Wake Forest
Hopkins
WashU
UTSW
UTMB
In particular, I feel pretty equally about WashU, UPMC, Cleveland, and Hopkins.

Personally loved WashU when I interviewed. LOVE the city of St Louis. Tons to do there. Only other one I interviewed at from your list was cleveland clinic and it was more-or-less equivocal for me. It was in the lower half of my rank list. You'll see challenging, complex, sick patients from all over the world there. I just didn't get "the vibe" when I was there.

It has been said before and should be said again, there is a huge value to training near where you want to practice, though obviously well-renowned names will get you in many doors.

I'd say go with your gut!

 

[ButterButter]

I got a terrible vibe from Cleveland Clinic. They were second to last on my list. Very impersonal, leadership felt very stale and robotic and residents acted like the candidate lunch was the best thing that’d happened to them since the last candidate lunch.

 

[GassYous]

hopkins washu pitt uf wake sinai nyu utsw utmb cleveland clinic

you're welcome

 

[Peterluger]

hopkins washu pitt uf wake sinai nyu utsw utmb cleveland clinic

you're welcome

New york university higher than cleveland clinic? But why?

 

[GassYous]

There's a reason why cleveland clinic is all imgs. I don't agree with your assessment of nyu I think it is fine.

 

[D P356]

There's a reason why cleveland clinic is all imgs. I don't agree with your assessment of nyu I think it is fine.

I’ve always heard this, however this is not even close to accurate.

 

[kidthor]

I'm a bit wary of the NYC programs in general, just because it's a tough place to train and so expensive (maybe COVID will "help"?) - so unless you really want to be in NYC I wouldn't rank those programs too high. All of those places you mentioned are all strong programs and training-wise you are lucky to have such good options.

 

[deleted875186]

Go to residency close to where you’d want to settle and practice after graduating, you’ll have many more connections. Your list is all over the US, pick a place you’ll want to live.

Literally everything else is fluff, all the programs are the same to some extent, who cares.

 

[deleted697127]

Sinai is very, very Jewish if that’s your thing. Also incredibly informal to the point that it’s sickening, i.e. calling 65 year old attendings by their first names which in my opinion is awkward af. But they’re probably average or above average when compared to programs nationally. I wouldn’t say below average.

NYU has a weird inferiority complex, because in reality they’re a middle tier program but don’t perceive themselves as such.

if you can get Columbia, go there. Otherwise i’d stay away from NYC if i have places like cleveland clinic, hopkins and washu lined up

Weird post.

I’ve always heard this, however this is not even close to accurate.

lol no he’s right. No way in hell would I ever live in Cleveland. I don’t know where this guys getting his opinions from. Sinai was one of the most competitive programs in the country when i was applying due to facilities, schedule, moonlighting, flexibility, and overall resident wellness. My friends who went there loved it. Only program I’m aware of that allows residents to schedule vacation days however they want and not having to do it a year in advance. For example, giving yourself random 3 day weekends. NYU, if anything, is going to continue to have rapidly improving reputation across the board in medicine after making med school free for all students. I fully expect this to trickle down into reputation of the residencies. Additionally, these programs aren’t moving their physical location. LES is the best part of NY.

Columbia’s rep on the other hand is facing deserved repercussions for poor cardiac fellowship match outcomes. I’m sure you’ll be fine if you go to Colombia but failing to match into your desired fellowship is definitely a real red flag. I think Columbia is technically in Harlem.

Cornell has the best facilities, awesome resident housing, Memorial Sloan Kettering, and hospital for special surgery.

There is a reason why people group Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, and NYU together

Wash u, Cleveland clinic, Wake and Mayo I’m sure are all great programs but they’re not places i would want to be as a single dude in my 20s. Could you imagine going to one of these places and ending up marrying someone who wants to stay there? Gross.

If you’re fine with northeast, i would rank Sinai = Hopkins (better program worse city) > NYU

 

[GassYous]

Weird post.


lol no he’s right. No way in hell would I ever live in Cleveland. I don’t know where this guys getting his opinions from. Sinai was one of the most competitive programs in the country when i was applying due to facilities, schedule, moonlighting, flexibility, and overall resident wellness. My friends who went there loved it. Only program I’m aware of that allows residents to schedule vacation days however they want and not having to do it a year in advance. For example, giving yourself random 3 day weekends. NYU, if anything, is going to continue to have rapidly improving reputation across the board in medicine after making med school free for all students. I fully expect this to trickle down into reputation of the residencies. Additionally, these programs aren’t moving their physical location. LES is the best part of NY.

Columbia’s rep on the other hand is facing deserved repercussions for poor cardiac fellowship match outcomes. I’m sure you’ll be fine if you go to Colombia but failing to match into your desired fellowship is definitely a real red flag. I think Columbia is technically in Harlem.

Cornell has the best facilities, awesome resident housing, Memorial Sloan Kettering, and hospital for special surgery.

There is a reason why people group Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, and NYU together

Wash u, Cleveland clinic, Wake and Mayo I’m sure are all great programs but they’re not places i would want to be as a single dude in my 20s. Could you imagine going to one of these places and ending up marrying someone who wants to stay there? Gross.

If you’re fine with northeast, i would rank Sinai = Hopkins (better program worse city) > NYU

Nice post, you know the deal

 

[zizzer]

Most of those spots will give you all the experience you need. Your motivation and work discipline will make a bigger difference. Weed out any bad programs then pick first based on location where you and family will be happy. I'll share a bit about CCF, since many around here who share about it seem to not know much about it. Overall, it's a very solid program. This should be pretty recent info, but some may have changed by now.

Around here CCF has a reputation as a workhorse program, but I think that is outdated by a decade or so. The last program director really changed the emphasis towards residents being valued more as learners rather than workers. The newest program director has similar goals and is very receptive to feedback about how to best improve resident training. Aside from the cardiac anesthesia rotations, which can be a bit tough, the hours aren't horrible. A half-day each week is blocked off for residents to attend lectures, simulations, and independent study.

About half of the CBY year rotations are within the anesthesia department, with four being OR months. CA-1 year avoids the subspecialties other than a single OB anesthesia rotation. CA-1 year is the easiest year probably, which will really allow you to build a solid foundation studying for the ITE. CA-2 year is the most challenging year where you really earn your chops. It includes multiple months of cardiac anesthesia, thoracic anesthesia, liver transplant call, OB anesthesia, and the first pediatric anesthesia rotations. CA-3 year is all about solidifying your practice, reinforcing weaknesses, and getting ready to be an attending. CA-3 year also includes a TEE month and some elective flexibility.

Strengths of the program:
1. Complex medical conditions and operations, more than maybe anywhere else. You'll see just about everything and most days will not be routine. This is definitely a good thing.
2. Cardiac anesthesia training. CCF is perennially ranked #1 in cardiac surgery and cardiology. There is a very high volume of cardiac cases daily, you'll do a mini-fellowship worth of rotations there. There are over 100 ICU beds only for cardiac patients! It's a well-oiled machine and you will finish residency ready to do cardiac cases and everything related except an advanced TEE exam for billing. Even if you don't do cardiac, there will be no general anesthesia case with a cardiac pathology you aren't prepared for.
3. Supportive program director
4. Diverse attendings in all specialties. You will work with physicians from all over the world. People mentioned IMGs as if it's a bad thing for some reason earlier. CCF seems to value diversity a lot. There seems to usually be an IMG graduate in each anesthesia class (out of >20 per class), but many more in the IM program. It seems like at least half of the attendings in all specialties are internationally trained, which is really cool. It's neat to learn how things are done differently in Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America.
5. Hours aren't overwhelming. Adequate study time and a healthy work-life balance are possible.
6. Vacation flexibility. You don't have to block your vacation in weeks. Use your 20 days to schedule some long weekends and request no call for those weekends.
7. Name recognition. Whether it's fair or not, you will be offered jobs because you trained at a hospital with a reputation for doing big cases. The hospital is world-renowned in medicine. Saying you trained at CCF will raise eyebrows throughout your career just because it's a famous hospital.

Weaknesses of the program:
1. No trauma experience. CCF isn't a level 1 trauma center. This isn't a huge deal, as you learn all the skills you need to know anyway, but having more trauma experience would have been nice. You'll certainly be able to handle trauma cases straight out of residency though as long as you study.
2. Insufficient autonomy at times. Sometimes attendings fall into the habit of just telling you what to do rather than challenging you to make decisions, especially as a junior resident. I suspect this happens a bit at all programs though unfortunately. Physicians just aren't trained to be teachers, so there is some variability. The way to get around this is to take responsibility for understanding everything yourself. Follow the attendings' orders, but make sure you understand the decisions and what you would do if the decisions were yours.
3. Pediatric anesthesia: Not really a weakness even, but sometimes the pediatric anesthesiologists will pay lip service to resident education but feel more comfortable working with the CRNAs they are more familiar with. Just be sure to advocate for yourself and you should be fine and get the good cases still.
4. SRNA program. Not frequently much of an issue. Residents are given the good cases and there is plenty of challenging case volume, but every now and then it's annoying to see a CRNA or SRNA doing a case that should be assigned to a resident because some scheduler wasn't paying attention.

Also, Cleveland has a historically bad reputation but is actually a pretty fun place to live now with lots to do. Live on the East side if you want a family-oriented grown-up vibe. Live on the West side if you want a younger crowd and don't mind driving an extra 10 minutes in the morning. Live downtown if you're a party animal who likes the nightlife.

 

[D P356]

lol no he’s right. No way in hell would I ever live in Cleveland.

Could you imagine going to one of these places and ending up marrying someone who wants to stay there? Gross.

My post was in reference to CCF anesthesia residents being all imgs. That is not close to accurate.

In reference to marrying someone that wants to stay a non-desirable city, its best to set the expectations up front and be very firm on that if you don’t want to stay.

In my opinion and contrary to many on this forum, NYC is a NOT a desirable place to live. Different strokes.

 

[GassYous]

It was true when I was interviewing. Looks like it's more 1/3 MD, DO, IMG now. But that tracks with the increase in competitiveness of anesthesia in general.

 

[Peterluger]

My post was in reference to CCF anesthesia residents being all imgs. That is not close to accurate.

In reference to marrying someone that wants to stay a non-desirable city, its best to set the expectations up front and be very firm on that if you don’t want to stay.

In my opinion and contrary to many on this forum, NYC is a NOT a desirable place to live. Different strokes.

NYC was a desirable place for people who love NYC, up until April 2020. Now it’s the worst place to live in the world. Every day there’s some headline with an insane crime someone committed in broad daylight. I’ve lived here forever and am finishing up a fellowship, currently looking for attending jobs and CAN’T WAIT to escape this god-forsaken hell hole

 

[Omppu27]

As most everyone else has said, almost every program in the country is going to give you the opportunity to learn the skills you need to become competent. There's a lot of different variables at play when comparing programs, but location (for multiple reasons) outweighs almost every other factor.

Also, in general, pay very little attention to what random posters online say about a program. All it takes it one sour grape to spew some nonsense on here and all of a sudden a program has a terrible rap.

That being said.... When I interviewed at WashU, it seemed like objectively one of the best programs I interviewed at. However I couldn't picture myself getting a beer with literally any of the ~20 residents I met during dinner or at the lunch. And St Louis wasn't really for me. With regards to CCF, I thought it was sorta overrated and really relied on its name value/cardiac. Most of my interviewers were cardiac guys selling their cardiac program.

 

[Sriddymopboi]

Sinai is very, very Jewish if that’s your thing. Also incredibly informal to the point that it’s sickening, i.e. calling 65 year old attendings by their first names which in my opinion is awkward af. But they’re probably average or above average when compared to programs nationally. I wouldn’t say below average.

NYU has a weird inferiority complex, because in reality they’re a middle tier program but don’t perceive themselves as such.

if you can get Columbia, go there. Otherwise i’d stay away from NYC if i have places like cleveland clinic, hopkins and washu lined up

Weird post.


lol no he’s right. No way in hell would I ever live in Cleveland. I don’t know where this guys getting his opinions from. Sinai was one of the most competitive programs in the country when i was applying due to facilities, schedule, moonlighting, flexibility, and overall resident wellness. My friends who went there loved it. Only program I’m aware of that allows residents to schedule vacation days however they want and not having to do it a year in advance. For example, giving yourself random 3 day weekends. NYU, if anything, is going to continue to have rapidly improving reputation across the board in medicine after making med school free for all students. I fully expect this to trickle down into reputation of the residencies. Additionally, these programs aren’t moving their physical location. LES is the best part of NY.

Columbia’s rep on the other hand is facing deserved repercussions for poor cardiac fellowship match outcomes. I’m sure you’ll be fine if you go to Colombia but failing to match into your desired fellowship is definitely a real red flag. I think Columbia is technically in Harlem.

Cornell has the best facilities, awesome resident housing, Memorial Sloan Kettering, and hospital for special surgery.

There is a reason why people group Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, and NYU together

Wash u, Cleveland clinic, Wake and Mayo I’m sure are all great programs but they’re not places i would want to be as a single dude in my 20s. Could you imagine going to one of these places and ending up marrying someone who wants to stay there? Gross.

If you’re fine with northeast, i would rank Sinai = Hopkins (better program worse city) > NYU

Agreed. Very weird. Why does it matter if Sinai is "very Jewish?" Replace that with literally any other minority group and people would be up in arms. What's the point of even saying that?

 

[Peterluger]

Agreed. Very weird. Why does it matter if Sinai is "very Jewish?" Replace that with literally any other minority group and people would be up in arms. What's the point of even saying that?

You seem upset. No one ever said it’s a bad thing. Some people prefer to be surrounded by Zionist Jews. Didn’t say it’s a bad thing. If that’s their desire, Sinai is the place to train for them.

 

[abolt18]

Agreed. Very weird. Why does it matter if Sinai is "very Jewish?" Replace that with literally any other minority group and people would be up in arms. What's the point of even saying that?

People say stuff like that about my home state all the time being "very 'Mormon'" without batting an eye. (Utah)

And I've never seen it as an insult, rather as a statement of fact because there is indeed a culture that permeates much of what you see and do there. It's just life. That's what I imagined was meant by that statement.

 

[premed1234567891011]

Which of these programs would have the farthest reach in terms of job placement after residency? I don't want to be stuck in any one geographical area/don't know where I see myself ending up yet. I'm guessing programs with the best name recognition would have the largest pull in getting me interviews and job offers?

 

[nimbus]

FWIW, I attended NYU for medical school. Many of my Jewish classmates affectionately called it “NYJew” and we all ate a lot of bagels and lox.

 

[GassYous]

Which of these programs would have the farthest reach in terms of job placement after residency? I don't want to be stuck in any one geographical area/don't know where I see myself ending up yet. I'm guessing programs with the best name recognition would have the largest pull in getting me interviews and job offers?

I doubt you will have trouble getting a job anywhere from any of these programs. Even people from low ranked programs also get jobs. It's a function of the market and the need, not the program. Look at em, even people from "top programs" are having trouble finding jobs, although it's more that the employers are squeezing more out of their employees rather than a decrease in the amount of work.

 

[deleted126335]

You seem upset. No one ever said it’s a bad thing. Some people prefer to be surrounded by Zionist Jews. Didn’t say it’s a bad thing. If that’s their desire, Sinai is the place to train for them.