Realistic salary

[Doctor Christmas]

Hello anesthesia folks,

Please enlighten me. I have gone back and forth discussing this with a fellow resident friend (who is finishing up anesthesia residency). We are friends and he's trying to decide between jobs. One of the offers he's gotten in anesthesia in a desirable city is for 300k starting salary with the standard benefits. He's also gotten an offer for something like $420 with "perks" that sound too good to believe, like 18 weeks off, no call, etc. Sounds fishy to me.

He says $420 is a "low" starting salary. Maybe I am way ignorant, but is this the case? I think he's going to get burned at this "magical" job and the other seems much more realistic. What are reasonable starting anesthesia salaries?

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[Urzuz]

Hello anesthesia folks,

Please enlighten me. I have gone back and forth discussing this with a fellow resident friend (who is finishing up anesthesia residency). We are friends and he's trying to decide between jobs. One of the offers he's gotten in anesthesia in a desirable city is for 300k starting salary with the standard benefits. He's also gotten an offer for something like $420 with "perks" that sound too good to believe, like 18 weeks off, no call, etc. Sounds fishy to me.

He says $420 is a "low" starting salary. Maybe I am way ignorant, but is this the case? I think he's going to get burned at this "magical" job and the other seems much more realistic. What are reasonable starting anesthesia salaries?

Totally dependent on the part of the country, practice setting (academics/private), payor mix, stipends, call, etc etc etc

Neither are unreasonable and out of the realm of normal.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

Totally dependent on the part of the country, practice setting (academics/private), payor mix, stipends, call, etc etc etc

Neither are unreasonable and out of the realm of normal.

So a starting salary of $420 is typical for anesthesia then? I did not know. So if someone starts at that, what are they making towards end of their career - 800k or so? I guess I am ignorant on anesthesia compensation.

 

[aneftp]

New grads need to factor in hours worked and time off.

380-400k 45 hours worked per week with 8-10 weeks would be my target. Also factor in calls. In house vs beeper.

I know a job that pays 500k plus 11 weeks vacation. But u gonna to work 65-70 hours a week. Up all night most of the time plus starting 6am cardiac cases post call prepping central lines for 630am in room time. So does that 500k a year job sound good??

 

[AdmiralChz]

Anesthesiology, like Emergency Medicine, is very much an “hours worked” specialty in terms of compensation. Speaking very, very broadly of course. You can make a lot of money (yes, 600-800K) by working a TON (taking no vacation, 6 clinical days a week especially as locums) or you can make much less by working much less. There are jobs out there in $200s for 3 days a week with lots of vacation.

Just depends on how much you are willing to work.

 

[Doctor Christmas]

New grads need to factor in hours worked and time off.

380-400k 45 hours worked per week with 8-10 weeks would be my target. Also factor in calls. In house vs beeper.

I know a job that pays 500k plus 11 weeks vacation. But u gonna to work 65-70 hours a week. Up all night most of the time plus starting 6am cardiac cases post call prepping central lines for 630am in room time. So does that 500k a year job sound good??

8-10 week vacation is typical for anesthesia docs starting out?

 

[dchz]

8-10 week vacation is typical for anesthesia docs starting out?

You're missinng the point, there is no "typical". There is a LOT of variability between different jobs and locations. Almost everything is negotiable.

 

[Beach bum]

8-10 week vacation is typical for anesthesia docs starting out?

Depends. I have seen jobs on gas work that offer four weeks vacation which I thought was very low. Hat is always in question is if anyone is taking these jobs. Why would anyone post it unless they had some expectation of someone agreeing to it...

 

[AdmiralChz]

8-10 week vacation is typical for anesthesia docs starting out?

There's no way to answer this. For 1099 (basically independent contractor), often if you take vacation then you aren't making money - so many docs don't take much.

For W-2 you are typically salaried but somtimes/often still get incentivized to take in-house or weekend call again taking away from potential vacation time if one wants to pad the wallet.

For Locums jobs you are often paid hour/per diem/weekly, again incentivizing one to work as much as possible.

It's overly simplistic to talk about "vacation" but anywhere from 4-8 weeks starting out seems standard (for many, this increases after 1 or 2 years); however, practices vary so much more data points are needed to evaluate what this really means.

 

[GravelRider]

Hello anesthesia folks,

Please enlighten me. I have gone back and forth discussing this with a fellow resident friend (who is finishing up anesthesia residency). We are friends and he's trying to decide between jobs. One of the offers he's gotten in anesthesia in a desirable city is for 300k starting salary with the standard benefits. He's also gotten an offer for something like $420 with "perks" that sound too good to believe, like 18 weeks off, no call, etc. Sounds fishy to me.

He says $420 is a "low" starting salary. Maybe I am way ignorant, but is this the case? I think he's going to get burned at this "magical" job and the other seems much more realistic. What are reasonable starting anesthesia salaries?

I put in bold the only near certainty for a new grad entering the job market. Odds are he’s going to get burned and his first job (or second and third job) won’t be his last.

 

[Twiggidy]

Also factor in cost of living......

300k in NYC/Boston/SF/LA is not the same as 300k in say Indianapolis or Cincinnati

With regard to vacation, some places that offer lower vacation weeks may do so because you may not be on call much (or at all) and have many weekends off, which essentially gives you more free time. On the contrary, as others say, some places may work you into the ground and give you moderate vacation but pay you 450-700k but you WILL likely be working for it. And I mean similar to "resident" style working.

 

[Mman]

So a starting salary of $420 is typical for anesthesia then? I did not know. So if someone starts at that, what are they making towards end of their career - 800k or so? I guess I am ignorant on anesthesia compensation.

I'm assuming the $420K is for something like a single doc at a small hospital where they are on call 24/7 except vacation. Also note in anesthesia (and I'm assuming medicine in general), it's not like they get a raise every year. The job pays what it pays whether you have no experience or 30 years experience. Experience might get your foot in the door somewhere a new grad couldn't, but it isn't something that generates a bigger paycheck.

 

[pjl]

Starting does not equal final salary. You don’t have enough details to make much of the situation.

When I finished residency I had offers ranging from 205k to 400k. All had at least 6 weeks off. The final salaries of those particular jobs were >75% MGMA and 400k, respectively. So by taking a hit year 1, the end result was a far bigger final salary.
AMGs and hospital employees tend to have relatively stable salaries near the starting, while partnership tracks tend to have rather large raises along the way until you get to partner, then stable.
Work hours and vacation play into this equation, but it isn’t always as correlated as one would think, sometimes the payer mix is just different.

 

[Hoya11]

250-325K Desireable location and/or partnership track
350-400k desireable location employee
400-500k undesireable location employee
>500k owner/partner in practice regardless of location

Vacation usually 6-8 weeks if employeed, 8+ weeks for partners, but completely variable..

 

[anbuitachi]

Hello anesthesia folks,

Please enlighten me. I have gone back and forth discussing this with a fellow resident friend (who is finishing up anesthesia residency). We are friends and he's trying to decide between jobs. One of the offers he's gotten in anesthesia in a desirable city is for 300k starting salary with the standard benefits. He's also gotten an offer for something like $420 with "perks" that sound too good to believe, like 18 weeks off, no call, etc. Sounds fishy to me.

He says $420 is a "low" starting salary. Maybe I am way ignorant, but is this the case? I think he's going to get burned at this "magical" job and the other seems much more realistic. What are reasonable starting anesthesia salaries?

It's similar to other specialties. Nothing special about anesthesia. 420 with perks/18 week off sounds real off.

 

[skypilot]

250-325K Desireable location and/or partnership track
350-400k desireable location employee
400-500k undesireable location employee
>500k owner/partner in practice regardless of location

Vacation usually 6-8 weeks if employeed, 8+ weeks for partners, but completely variable..

Yes and "vacation" is just them giving you back all the weekends you worked.

 

[jwk]

Think of another specialty. Say $250k with 26 weeks off a year. Piece of cake right? That's a typical hospitalist in my area. 7 days on, 7 days off, and either 7a-7p or 7p-7a. Doesn't sound great to me.

 

[anbuitachi]

Think of another specialty. Say $250k with 26 weeks off a year. Piece of cake right? That's a typical hospitalist in my area. 7 days on, 7 days off, and either 7a-7p or 7p-7a. Doesn't sound great to me.

sounds fantastic to me

 

[gasblaster]

250-325K Desireable location and/or partnership track
350-400k desireable location employee
400-500k undesireable location employee
>500k owner/partner in practice regardless of location

Vacation usually 6-8 weeks if employeed, 8+ weeks for partners, but completely variable..

Agree with this as a generalization for private practice. Obviosly there will be some outliers but mostly in regards to higher pay/benefits for less desirable places. There's a reason pay is less in more desirable places... higher demand, especially by new/younger grads.

Academics I feel like has a lot more variability (different models, leadership, etc) but also subject to location/name.

 

[Twiggidy]

Agree with this as a generalization for private practice. Obviosly there will be some outliers but mostly in regards to higher pay/benefits for less desirable places. There's a reason pay is less in more desirable places... higher demand, especially by new/younger grads.

Academics I feel like has a lot more variability (different models, leadership, etc) but also subject to location/name.

I'd add that Academics in a desirable area will offer good benefits but a moderate to low salary AND the job will be difficult to get if you're not from said institution as a resident or fellow because those guys just sit on those jobs, again, especially in highly desired areas. and let's be real, when we say desired, we mean about 90% of metro areas

 

[skankhunt42]

How much will you be making when CRNA's take over everything!?!?! Trolllllllll.....

 

[Man o War]

How much will you be making when CRNA's take over everything!?!?! Trolllllllll.....

When they start killing and maiming people on the regular, probably a cool mil/year.

 

[izzygoer]

Most new grads will learn their is more to happiness than the salary. As mentioned Vacation time Location etc are trade offs.

Practice environment is the factor that is most often overlooked. 425-450 doing cases by yourself..but what if it means having to beg someone 3 x a day for a break? vs ..350k supervising residents/crna (single coverage with resident 70 percent of the time) and lots of free time during the day. Have experienced both and personally much happier with the latter.

 

[anbuitachi]

Most new grads will learn their is more to happiness than the salary. As mentioned Vacation time Location etc are trade offs.

Practice environment is the factor that is most often overlooked. 425-450 doing cases by yourself..but what if it means having to beg someone 3 x a day for a break? vs ..350k supervising residents/crna (single coverage with resident 70 percent of the time) and lots of free time during the day. Have experienced both and personally much happier with the latter.

that's a rare find. single coverage..??

 

[izzygoer]

that's a rare find. single coverage..??

Yes. Sometimes all the forces align. Small hospital, satellite for a big residency program, ( lots of warm bodies sent over each month) not enough general/elective cases for double coverage (unless someone is sick or multiple people out on vacay), huge trauma stipend from the state keeps the place open ...and everything chill.

 

[nimbus]

Most new grads will learn their is more to happiness than the salary. As mentioned Vacation time Location etc are trade offs.

Practice environment is the factor that is most often overlooked. 425-450 doing cases by yourself..but what if it means having to beg someone 3 x a day for a break? vs ..350k supervising residents/crna (single coverage with resident 70 percent of the time) and lots of free time during the day. Have experienced both and personally much happier with the latter.

3x/day? GI issues??

 

[izzygoer]

ha ha not really. Just like the freedom of being able to drink tons of water before work and throughout the day without worrying about asking for a break. Keeps the stones away, body hydrated and looking like I’m still in college...at least that’s what the nurses say

 

[anbuitachi]

Yes. Sometimes all the forces align. Small hospital, satellite for a big residency program, ( lots of warm bodies sent over each month) not enough general/elective cases for double coverage (unless someone is sick or multiple people out on vacay), huge trauma stipend from the state keeps the place open ...and everything chill.

The hell. Are they hiring

 

[nimbus]

ha ha not really. Just like the freedom of being able to drink tons of water before work and throughout the day without worrying about asking for a break. Keeps the stones away, body hydrated and looking like I’m still in college...at least that’s what the nurses say

Ahhh got it. For the record, do not mix Carolina reapers with a long case. Don’t ask me how I know.

 

[pmichaelmd]

To the OP, there are numerous salary surveys out there that are used as a metric of sorts in order to set salaries, especially in the employed models. Look up MGMA, Merritt-Hawkins, Medscape, etc. We use MGMA and it is the most popular. If you look at it by region, say MGMA Southern, it should give you a good idea of what salaries are reported to be. Good rule of thumb at a "good" job is to find something above the median and approaching the 75%. For our specialty, that is a nice, juicy number.
Cheers.

 

[chocomorsel]

Do you need a break three times from t

Most new grads will learn their is more to happiness than the salary. As mentioned Vacation time Location etc are trade offs.

Practice environment is the factor that is most often overlooked. 425-450 doing cases by yourself..but what if it means having to beg someone 3 x a day for a break? vs ..350k supervising residents/crna (single coverage with resident 70 percent of the time) and lots of free time during the day. Have experienced both and personally much happier with the latter.

he OR? How about a potty break between cases and eating/snacking behind the drapes? Or again between cases?