Reality check but still driven

[polymer]

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Hello, new to this forum.

Just asking what are my chances, I know you've seen this question before but I would be indebted if you could give me some advice.

Myself - late 30's mamanger at an investment bank. Pretty good $$

Reason for carreer change - 18 month deployment to Iraq. My plans are to get the MD and go back in the service. I can clarify on that if needed.

Problem - Horrible GPA. I have a 2.0 that I eecked out after multiple academic dismissals and planty of D's and a few F's . I was a bartender.... enough said.

Obviously, I have grown since then. My academic record is 15 years in the past. But I know that it will be brought up.

I know that I have to do well on the MCAT. Probably 30+.
My plan is to go to the locat university and take some 300 - 500 level courses. This was the advice given to me by the Ross academic advisor.
Would you concur...?
As for the reason to go to carribean... i know that US med school would even consider me. Ah well... such is life.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. And thanks and good luck to all of you.

 

[oldpro]

what prereqs do you have done?

there is a crisis at the moment for financial aid in the caribbean, you would not be accepted at any of the Big 4 schools since you need a gpa of at least 2.6 and an MCAT of 24 for acceptance and even then they may not.

Getting into medical school is a longer road then most and desire is only one factor

good luck

 

[dr aaron]

there is only a financial aid crisis at St. James....i myself am a sudent at a caribbean school (St. Matthews) and have had no problems with financial aid......like old pro said though, get that gpa up to around a 2.8 or so and i think you would have a shot at AUC or St matthews or MUA nevis maybe even Ross........good luck to you and thanks for your service to us we are in your debt.

 

[Top Gun]

Go do a post-bacc program and work your a$$ off. Kick butt on the MCAT. Then apply to the Caribbean.

 

[polymer]

Yes.. i have a long way to go.

Is there some sort of combination of high MCAT and fewer classes that I could aim for to get in?

For example a 33 MCAT and 2.4 GPA? Thats about 5-7 classes I think. I thought I read that ADCOMS look for a trend vs. actual number.

Also, I have all the pre-reqs from 15 years ago. Does it matter what types of classes get you the higher GPA? Say an MBA or a MS in computer science?

Lots of questions I know, but I could really use the answers.

As for money, thats one area I am not hurting. Plenty of that in cash to pay for the whole thing.. My career isn't all that bad .... 🙂

 

[AngryBaby]

Yes.. i have a long way to go.

Is there some sort of combination of high MCAT and fewer classes that I could aim for to get in?

For example a 33 MCAT and 2.4 GPA? Thats about 5-7 classes I think. I thought I read that ADCOMS look for a trend vs. actual number.

Also, I have all the pre-reqs from 15 years ago. Does it matter what types of classes get you the higher GPA? Say an MBA or a MS in computer science?

Lots of questions I know, but I could really use the answers.

As for money, thats one area I am not hurting. Plenty of that in cash to pay for the whole thing.. My career isn't all that bad .... 🙂

I don't think a GPA under 3.0 is going to give you any chance of getting into any school in the states (MD or DO), regardless of MCAT. I also think anything below a 3.3 is going to make life very difficult as well. Now if your overall is like a 3.1 and your science is >3.45 and you've got a 30 or higher MCAT then you may have a shot at a few allopathic schools. I would think you'd be competitive for many DO schools.

As always, however, take the advice with a grain of salt and check up on it yourself. This is what I've seen over the past 3 years, for whatever that's worth (if I'm not in your state then probably very little/nothing). I'm in TX, BTW.

 

[polymer]

In the states, no way. It will never happen. As I see it, the only avenue I have is the Carribbean and thats it. Period.​

 

[polymer]

1 - there is no way I will ever be considered for admission to a US based school MD or DO

2 - Carribean is the only way to go. Thats fine. I'm cool with that. 😎

Thats pretty much what i expected. So, I have a few follow up questions -

1 - As far as raising GPA is considered, do I have to get 2.6 or do they just need to see an upward trend? What kind of classes are we talking about? My assumption is 300 - 500 level bio - bio chem classes? Would you agree?

2 - As opposed to taking classes , how does that weigh against going into a post bac program? Does it matter if it is from a top tier school (top 10 med school) or a regular state school?

3- Is there some score on the MCAT that makes carrib schools forgive a lower gpa? say 33?

4 - I heard about sallie mae pulling out? Not sure if I understand to what extent. How much $$ should I have for tuition for the whole thing? Does this play a role in admission. I don't think it does... but you never know.

5 - Do graduates from SABA SGU Ross go into the service? Any issues there?

So I have a road. Somewhat steep but not impossible.

Thanks for entertaining my questions.

 

[oldpro]

1 - there is no way I will ever be considered for admission to a US based school MD or DO

2 - Carribean is the only way to go. Thats fine. I'm cool with that. 😎

Thats pretty much what i expected. So, I have a few follow up questions -

1 - As far as raising GPA is considered, do I have to get 2.6 or do they just need to see an upward trend? What kind of classes are we talking about? My assumption is 300 - 500 level bio - bio chem classes? Would you agree?

2 - As opposed to taking classes , how does that weigh against going into a post bac program? Does it matter if it is from a top tier school (top 10 med school) or a regular state school?

3- Is there some score on the MCAT that makes carrib schools forgive a lower gpa? say 33?

4 - I heard about sallie mae pulling out? Not sure if I understand to what extent. How much $$ should I have for tuition for the whole thing? Does this play a role in admission. I don't think it does... but you never know.

5 - Do graduates from SABA SGU Ross go into the service? Any issues there?

So I have a road. Somewhat steep but not impossible.

Thanks for entertaining my questions.

Well glad you are starting to look ahead

You will need 150 to 225k to get through medschool

SGU you will need about a 2.7 and 26 MCAT from what I see them accepting

They would conisder you for premed maybe there

Ross same thing, some with low gpa's get into a premed for a semester or two and prove themselves then they go into MD courses

Post bac may help.

MCAT of at least 28 will help a lot.

 

[AngryBaby]

1 - there is no way I will ever be considered for admission to a US based school MD or DO

2 - Carribean is the only way to go. Thats fine. I'm cool with that. 😎

Thats pretty much what i expected. So, I have a few follow up questions -

1 - As far as raising GPA is considered, do I have to get 2.6 or do they just need to see an upward trend? What kind of classes are we talking about? My assumption is 300 - 500 level bio - bio chem classes? Would you agree?

2 - As opposed to taking classes , how does that weigh against going into a post bac program? Does it matter if it is from a top tier school (top 10 med school) or a regular state school?

3- Is there some score on the MCAT that makes carrib schools forgive a lower gpa? say 33?

4 - I heard about sallie mae pulling out? Not sure if I understand to what extent. How much $$ should I have for tuition for the whole thing? Does this play a role in admission. I don't think it does... but you never know.

5 - Do graduates from SABA SGU Ross go into the service? Any issues there?

So I have a road. Somewhat steep but not impossible.

Thanks for entertaining my questions.

According to SGU's website, as of 3 years ago the average accepted applicant had a 3.3 science GPA, 3.4 overall, and a 26 MCAT.

You qualify for federal student loans if you go to Ross and SGU-and I think AUC.

I'm a second career guy. I was just accepted into SGU with a 3.1 overall (from years ago), 3.6 science (post-bacc) and a 29 MCAT. FWIW, with those stats I interviewed at 2 US schools and was placed on 2 waitlists. So if you can get a 3.5 or greater science GPA and a 30 or higher MCAT I would not rule out the lower-tier allopathic and some osteopathic schools IF you can get that overall GPA up around 3.1 or higher, which a post-bacc would be great for.

 

[oldpro]

According to SGU's website, as of 3 years ago the average accepted applicant had a 3.3 science GPA, 3.4 overall, and a 26 MCAT.

.......................

This is way overstated by SGU I know of many just under 3.0 accepted and 24 MCATS, with a 3.4 and 26 US DO schools would interview you and some accept you. All the Caribbean schools web sites are full of misinformation they twist things to make themselves look better.

 

[AngryBaby]

This is way overstated by SGU I know of many just under 3.0 accepted and 24 MCATS, with a 3.4 and 26 US DO schools would interview you and some accept you. All the Caribbean schools web sites are full of misinformation they twist things to make themselves look better.

Werd

 

[Shinken]

Obviously, I have grown since then. My academic record is 15 years in the past. But I know that it will be brought up.

As for the reason to go to carribean... i know that US med school would even consider me. Ah well... such is life.

I don't want to give you false hopes, but your story is relatively "interesting" and unusual. Some DO schools in the US are somewhat forgiving of people's past mistakes, especially if you can prove you've grown since then.

Anyway, it's a bit of a long shot, but if you can show that you can handle advanced science courses and get a great post-bacc GPA (3.8 - 4.0) and do well on the MCAT (>27) you might just be considered at a US DO school. Do not be fooled into thinking that because a US DO school might consider you that it's "easier" than an MD school. You'll have to work hard not to fail out.

Many DO schools will be interested in a non-traditional applicant like yourself. It appears that your current situation has shown you're a mature, professional, hard-working person (otherwise you wouldn't be a manager at a bank).

I say give it a shot. Be realistic and prepared to go Caribbean if needed, but it's worth a try to apply to US DO schools first just to see what happens. Of course, if you're hell bent on an MD degree then it's a completely different story.

Anyway, my advice if you're interested in trying DO first:

1- Take your pre-reqs and advanced science courses and try to get a 4.00 GPA if possible (at least 16 credits or more to make it count).

2- Do well on the MCAT.

3- Learn as much as you can about osteopathic medicine. Be prepared to answer "Why DO?" during your interviews.

4- When you apply to DO schools, include in your personal statement the fact that you did badly in school in the past but now you've "grown." Back up your statement with proof (post-bacc GPA, MCAT, clinical volunteering, your current successful life/career, etc.)

5- Shadow a DO if possible and try to get a glowing letter of recommendation from him/her.

6- If you can retake some courses you did badly on in the past, do it. When filling out your AACOMAS application, your latest grade is the one that counts. You might be surprised at what your GPA looks like if you can retake some old courses and get As in all of them.

You might want to read some posts in the non-traditional forum. There are plenty of people in your situation that managed to stay in the US for medical school. Again, I'm not making promises and everyone's situation is different. But if you're going to take advanced level courses and ace the MCAT, you might as well apply here too.

 

[AngryBaby]

I don't want to give you false hopes, but your story is relatively "interesting" and unusual. Some DO schools in the US are somewhat forgiving of people's past mistakes, especially if you can prove you've grown since then.

Anyway, it's a bit of a long shot, but if you can show that you can handle advanced science courses and get a great post-bacc GPA (3.8 - 4.0) and do well on the MCAT (>27) you might just be considered at a US DO school. Do not be fooled into thinking that because a US DO school might consider you that it's "easier" than an MD school. You'll have to work hard not to fail out.

Many DO schools will be interested in a non-traditional applicant like yourself. It appears that your current situation has shown you're a mature, professional, hard-working person (otherwise you wouldn't be a manager at a bank).

I say give it a shot. Be realistic and prepared to go Caribbean if needed, but it's worth a try to apply to US DO schools first just to see what happens. Of course, if you're hell bent on an MD degree then it's a completely different story.

Anyway, my advice if you're interested in trying DO first:

1- Take your pre-reqs and advanced science courses and try to get a 4.00 GPA if possible (at least 16 credits or more to make it count).

2- Do well on the MCAT.

3- Learn as much as you can about osteopathic medicine. Be prepared to answer "Why DO?" during your interviews.

4- When you apply to DO schools, include in your personal statement the fact that you did badly in school in the past but now you've "grown." Back up your statement with proof (post-bacc GPA, MCAT, clinical volunteering, your current successful life/career, etc.)

5- Shadow a DO if possible and try to get a glowing letter of recommendation from him/her.

6- If you can retake some courses you did badly on in the past, do it. When filling out your AACOMAS application, your latest grade is the one that counts. You might be surprised at what your GPA looks like if you can retake some old courses and get As in all of them.

You might want to read some posts in the non-traditional forum. There are plenty of people in your situation that managed to stay in the US for medical school. Again, I'm not making promises and everyone's situation is different. But if you're going to take advanced level courses and ace the MCAT, you might as well apply here too.

I agree wholeheartedly with Shinken's post. Just remember virtually all the D.O. schools will require a D.O. letter of recommendation. I didn't realize this until it was too late to receive one...good chance I would have been a D.O. in training if I had.

 

[polymer]

I don't want to give you false hopes, but your story is relatively "interesting" and unusual. Some DO schools in the US are somewhat forgiving of people's past mistakes, especially if you can prove you've grown since then.

Anyway, it's a bit of a long shot, but if you can show that you can handle advanced science courses and get a great post-bacc GPA (3.8 - 4.0) and do well on the MCAT (>27) you might just be considered at a US DO school. Do not be fooled into thinking that because a US DO school might consider you that it's "easier" than an MD school. You'll have to work hard not to fail out.

Many DO schools will be interested in a non-traditional applicant like yourself. It appears that your current situation has shown you're a mature, professional, hard-working person (otherwise you wouldn't be a manager at a bank).

I say give it a shot. Be realistic and prepared to go Caribbean if needed, but it's worth a try to apply to US DO schools first just to see what happens. Of course, if you're hell bent on an MD degree then it's a completely different story.

Anyway, my advice if you're interested in trying DO first:

1- Take your pre-reqs and advanced science courses and try to get a 4.00 GPA if possible (at least 16 credits or more to make it count).

2- Do well on the MCAT.

3- Learn as much as you can about osteopathic medicine. Be prepared to answer "Why DO?" during your interviews.

4- When you apply to DO schools, include in your personal statement the fact that you did badly in school in the past but now you've "grown." Back up your statement with proof (post-bacc GPA, MCAT, clinical volunteering, your current successful life/career, etc.)

5- Shadow a DO if possible and try to get a glowing letter of recommendation from him/her.

6- If you can retake some courses you did badly on in the past, do it. When filling out your AACOMAS application, your latest grade is the one that counts. You might be surprised at what your GPA looks like if you can retake some old courses and get As in all of them.

You might want to read some posts in the non-traditional forum. There are plenty of people in your situation that managed to stay in the US for medical school. Again, I'm not making promises and everyone's situation is different. But if you're going to take advanced level courses and ace the MCAT, you might as well apply here too.

Wow. Then there is hope.

But in all reality, folks, I am headed for tropical waters. To me, its not that big a deal. My intention is to go in the service (probably retire) so I am not competing for a competitive university based residency. Not that the service has low standards... its just that no one wants to do it in comparision to what else is available.

I wanted to touch on a point -

1- Take your pre-reqs and advanced science courses and try to get a 4.00 GPA if possible (at least 16 credits or more to make it count).

I think it may take more than 4-5 classes to get my GPA up. With an excellent MCAT score (+30) , is this enough to sway an adcom?

Also, any exposure to students in their 40's? What was your opinions of then? Can you shed some light on the ones you have met? I'd rather get this kind of insight from someone who has been there vs. a thread on a board (although there is much to be gained there as well).

 

[dr aaron]

At St. Matthews where I attend, there are several students 40+, some are chiropractors, nurses etc. some like yourself were also in the service. My advice to you is to try and do well in some upper level sciences but do not put too much pressure on yourself where you think you have to make a 4.0 and a stellar MCAT to get in...just show the admissions comittee that you are able to handle science courses,which means you need to show A's and B's across the board and aim for a mid 20's MCAT. Several students here and at other carib schools were accepted to D.O. schools and chose the carib M.D. over the D.O.... Good luck and p.m. me if you have any questions

 

[Shinken]

I think it may take more than 4-5 classes to get my GPA up. With an excellent MCAT score (+30) , is this enough to sway an adcom?

Well, the point isn't exactly to raise your GPA (after all, it's a 15-year-old GPA) but to show that you can handle the course load in the present. You might just sway an adcom with that (again, not a guarantee).

Good luck in the Caribbean!

 

[Top Gun]

But in all reality, folks, I am headed for tropical waters. To me, its not that big a deal. My intention is to go in the service (probably retire) so I am not competing for a competitive university based residency. Not that the service has low standards... its just that no one wants to do it in comparision to what else is available.

Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to serve as a doctor in the service, aren't you required to be a graduate of a US medical school?
I'm asking because at one point I was considering working as an military physician, but I saw on the website that an officer in the US Army Medical Corps must be a US medical graduate. Or does this only apply to the Army? Maybe other branches, like the Navy or Air Force, take Caribbean graduates?
Just wondering.

 

[oldpro]

Ummm, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to serve as a doctor in the service, aren't you required to be a graduate of a US medical school?
I'm asking because at one point I was considering working as an military physician, but I saw on the website that an officer in the US Army Medical Corps must be a US medical graduate. Or does this only apply to the Army? Maybe other branches, like the Navy or Air Force, take Caribbean graduates?
Just wondering.

MUST BE A US GRAD MD LOL thats the funniest thing I have ever heard!

The military is taking 45 year old MD's they are so desperate!

I have 2 friends that are Caribbean FMG and they told me they could go into the Armed forces and get some loan pay back but no money up front.

What service? I have no idea at the moment I will email one and find out.

 

[Top Gun]

MUST BE A US GRAD MD LOL thats the funniest thing I have ever heard!

The military is taking 45 year old MD's they are so desperate!

I have 2 friends that are Caribbean FMG and they told me they could go into the Armed forces and get some loan pay back but no money up front.

What service? I have no idea at the moment I will email one and find out.

Here's the link to the site where I got that information:

http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/medical/corps-specialties_requir.jsp

You will find that it says you must be a US citizen and a graduate of an AMA or AOA approved school in order to qualify for an officer appointment in the US Army Medical Corps.
Maybe its different for other branches, like the Navy or Air Force. I'll have to do more research and find out.

 

[bulletproof]

Here's the link to the site where I got that information:

http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/medical/corps-specialties_requir.jsp

You will find that it says you must be a US citizen and a graduate of an AMA or AOA approved school in order to qualify for an officer appointment in the US Army Medical Corps.
Maybe its different for other branches, like the Navy or Air Force. I'll have to do more research and find out.

I looked into the army prior to going to Ross, and, if I remember correctly, the recruitment officer said they would be happy to take me once I had my M.D., and that there would be loan forgiveness ( armed forces paying for it ) etc. I forget the details..as it was a 10 minute conversation, but suffice it to say that I was not that impressed with their offer.The guy tried to make out like he would be doing me the favor.(what a joke.....as though his flag and eagle drapped office would have me brimming with sufficiently blinding patriotism) You would seriously think they would be begging physicians.

Take a look at the Military medicine forum to see what a holy mess that particular sad state of affairs is in. I guess if you enjoy taking orders from nurses who outrank you, and you enjoy being surrounded by undertreated soldiers in understaffed hospitals then the military is just for you.

I would love to do a year with the service as I feel it is the soldiers who have given their lives for this war based on patent lies who deserve our help. Unfortunately, the red tape and bureaucracy associated with Military medicine is entirely prohibitive. But hey...more power to anyone willing to wade through that growing pile of....