Really low GPA

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ragingmaelstrom

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So I just graduated with s rather low overall GPA of 2.48... my GPA was on the rise but my undergrad time came to an end before really affecting my overall GPA much. I'm currently taking MCAT classes and plan to take the August MCAT but I'm really looking for postbac that would be able boost my GPA enough to make me a decent med school candidate. Can anyone give me some recommendations or point me in the right direction? Thanks!

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Please give us some more information. What did you major in? Which science courses have you taken, and how did you do in them? What was your gpa your junior and senior year? How are you doing on the practice MCATs?
 
DrJekyl said:
Please give us some more information. What did you major in? Which science courses have you taken, and how did you do in them? What was your gpa your junior and senior year? How are you doing on the practice MCATs?


What was the reason you did not do well? What was your final year of grades like? Did you retake science courses?
 
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I finished as a Biology major and my gpa for my last 3 quarters were 1.81, 2.85, and 3.44.
I sort of gave up on myself in my sophmore and junior years until I realized that I wasn't entirely a lost cause in my senior year. By the time I was able to get back on track, classes came to an abrupt end. I've retaken many chemistry courses and a few physics courses.
As far as practice MCATs go, I've just started the Kaplan course and scored a 24 on the diagnostic but hope to improve my overall score by at at least 10 poinst come the August exam.
 
ragingmaelstrom said:
I finished as a Biology major and my gpa for my last 3 quarters were 1.81, 2.85, and 3.44.
I sort of gave up on myself in my sophmore and junior years until I realized that I wasn't entirely a lost cause in my senior year. By the time I was able to get back on track, classes came to an abrupt end. I've retaken many chemistry courses and a few physics courses.
As far as practice MCATs go, I've just started the Kaplan course and scored a 24 on the diagnostic but hope to improve my overall score by at at least 10 poinst come the August exam.

Good diag! Your recent academics hurts you a lot. You need to get into a masters/post bac and get 3.75 or higher. I would say for sure a 2 year, not one year program. You can find programs on aamc.org, click on med schools and look around for it. You may have some trouble getting into a post bac though, so perhaps looking into taking some upper level sciences as a student at large first, this summer and fall, then next spring apply for a post bac. Start volunteer/clinical stuff now. Once a week for two hours is fine, byut start now and do it until you get into medical school. Stay at the same place, dont jump around a lot- they look for committment. Why did you do so poorly your last three semesters? you simply gave up? Were you partying or depressed or sick or anything? If your serious about being a doctor, you need to solid years of stellar coursework before you apply. Find a premed director who is willing to sit downwith you a map out what you need to do. If you want it, you can achieve it.
Good luck to you.
 
ragingmaelstrom said:
I finished as a Biology major and my gpa for my last 3 quarters were 1.81, 2.85, and 3.44.
I sort of gave up on myself in my sophmore and junior years until I realized that I wasn't entirely a lost cause in my senior year. By the time I was able to get back on track, classes came to an abrupt end. I've retaken many chemistry courses and a few physics courses.
As far as practice MCATs go, I've just started the Kaplan course and scored a 24 on the diagnostic but hope to improve my overall score by at at least 10 poinst come the August exam.

BTW: study your f$ckin ass off for the MCAT, every day a few hours- take off one day a week- thats it. If you can get a 32+ people will take you much more seriously. If you end up with a score that is not as high, you can still do it, though.
 
I'd focus on post-bacc only rather than any graduate program because:

1) You really need to boost that UG GPA. Grad school classes do not boost UG GPA.

2) With that GPA, it'll be hard to get into a masters program anyway. Even if you did, you may lack the foundation to perform to your full potential in grad school.

Of course as many have stated. Destroy the MCAT. You will need to be over 32 or more to make up for a low GPA. I had a 2.65 UG GPA. Did post-bacc for 1.5 years and averaged about a 3.4 in biomedical engineering courses. Now in grad school and have a GPA cumulative GPA of 4.0 for my PhD program. The last time I took a real MCAT test was nearly 3 years ago and got a 36S, so it is VERY POSSIBLE to get yourself out of the low-GPA hole, and look decent. Although the low-GPA stands out, you pretty much have to make a very strong counter-effort to also make your recent academic activity stand out as well. Hence my reason for doing a PhD program while doing an unofficial post-bacc at the same time. It looks like you're on the right track with the MCAT! I wish you much luck. :luck:
 
Thanks for all the great advice! :)
I'm looking at the postbac programs on the AAMC site and I'm a bit scared of going out of state (CA) and it'll be hard to get into a postbac as is with a 2.48 overall gpa. My overall science gpa is ~2.1. Does anyone have any recommendations offhand of any decent programs that might accept some rock bottom gpa's like mine?
 
i have a low gpa for my upgrad (2.5x) as well. What i'm planning on doing is go to school for another two years to obtain a science degree (the one i have now is history). Thus, boasting my ugrad to around 3.0 but this isn't enough. I'm going to apply to a one-year masters program and hopefully by then i'll be competative enough to apply to med school. By the time i apply to med school, it will be in at least four years. This is going to be an uphill climb for us.
 
Yeah... and since I already have a BA in Biology, I can't take any of those programs to take science classes.
 
ragingmaelstrom said:
Thanks for all the great advice! :)
I'm looking at the postbac programs on the AAMC site and I'm a bit scared of going out of state (CA) and it'll be hard to get into a postbac as is with a 2.48 overall gpa. My overall science gpa is ~2.1. Does anyone have any recommendations offhand of any decent programs that might accept some rock bottom gpa's like mine?

Cal-state programs, or UC Extension. I believe CSU post-bacc programs have lower GPA requirements. UC's require at least 2.7 but usually higher (2.9 at UCSF I think).

You can also attend some kind of open campus through CSU or UC Extension, however those are probably a rip-off in terms of how much you pay per class. I graduated from UCD and decided to take classes through UCD Extension's open campus program. It was soooo expensive even with my staff discount. About $400-500 per class. I did that for 1.5 years, and couldn't take it anymore. I was always last priority to register which means there will be delays in getting onto the class email list, labs, etc.

Most grad programs require at least a 3.0 GPA, and having taken the GRE. Although my overal GPA was low, I still got into grad school at UCD due to my recent post-bacc work (GPA of 3.4), and the chair was nice enough to substitute my MCAT for the GRE requirement. The caveat was, I had to prove that I can handle grad school the first quarter (get 3.0 or more), so I was on some kind of "probationary period", and was not allowed to be funded by the school. But it is definately possible to get into a grad program with a sub-par GPA.

Your best bet would be a CSU open campus or post-bacc program. Although UC Extension programs are good, they are way too expensive and you may put yourself into debt before starting med school. Grad school is nice, however you need to see if there are ways to take UG classes for the reasons I stated previously. I cannot emphasize enough that those that need to boost UG GPA, you NEED to destroy the MCAT (30+), and show improvement in UG upper division coursework. As much as I would like grad classes to be viewed as equal or better than UG coursework, that is not the case. The only masters program that is comparable to post-bacc UG work are Special Masters Programs (like Georgetown). However those are very competative to get into, and as far as I know, there aren't any SMPs in CA.
 
ragingmaelstrom said:
Yeah... and since I already have a BA in Biology, I can't take any of those programs to take science classes.


I hope this works, This is the first time I have replied to a thread. Okie I have heard that many Post bacs take a 3.0 gpa on your last 60 hours. What is that for you? Also are you leaning towards DO or MD?
 
relentless11 said:
I'd focus on post-bacc only rather than any graduate program because:

1) You really need to boost that UG GPA. Grad school classes do not boost UG GPA.

2) With that GPA, it'll be hard to get into a masters program anyway. Even if you did, you may lack the foundation to perform to your full potential in grad school.

Of course as many have stated. Destroy the MCAT. You will need to be over 32 or more to make up for a low GPA. I had a 2.65 UG GPA. Did post-bacc for 1.5 years and averaged about a 3.4 in biomedical engineering courses. Now in grad school and have a GPA cumulative GPA of 4.0 for my PhD program. The last time I took a real MCAT test was nearly 3 years ago and got a 36S, so it is VERY POSSIBLE to get yourself out of the low-GPA hole, and look decent. Although the low-GPA stands out, you pretty much have to make a very strong counter-effort to also make your recent academic activity stand out as well. Hence my reason for doing a PhD program while doing an unofficial post-bacc at the same time. It looks like you're on the right track with the MCAT! I wish you much luck. :luck:


This might seem like a really stupid question, but how do post-bacc programs affect your undergrad GPA? Would this only work if you did the post-bacc at the same institution as your undergrad?
 
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JustMyLuck said:
This might seem like a really stupid question, but how do post-bacc programs affect your undergrad GPA? Would this only work if you did the post-bacc at the same institution as your undergrad?
All undergraduate courses ever taken just get averaged together for your GPA (regardless of which institution you take them at)...

If you take graduate programs, they have a separate GPA, though.
 
I am currently in a similar situation with a 2.5 ug sci gpa and 3.1 overall. I applied to both ms and postbac programs but chances of getting are slight. Whats the best way to get csu classes during the summer and during the year if I am graduating this spring? The uc extension is very expensive and I am afraid that registering as just a visiting student at a csu will not get me into any science classes due to overcrowding. Any help would be appreciated, thanks
 
Not sure if this is true of all Cal state schools, but at Cal State Fullerton you can register as a postbacc student. You get to enroll at the same time as their freshmen & sophomores, but after their juniors, seniors, & 2nd bachelors students. A small advantage, but an advantage nonetheless from just trying to enroll as an open university student (who get last pick out of all their students).
 
JustMyLuck said:
This might seem like a really stupid question, but how do post-bacc programs affect your undergrad GPA? Would this only work if you did the post-bacc at the same institution as your undergrad?

All undergrad coursework done after the completion of your bachelor's degree is considered post-bacc regardless of when, where, and what courses you took. On AMCAS, you are to put in ALL college coursework, and this includes any college coursework done ages ago. By definition, post-bacc GPA is included in the overall undergraduate GPA, however med schools can differentiate between your undergrad GPA (from your BA/BS program), and post-bacc.

Since you are typing in all this stuff into AMCAS, it doesn't really matter when or where you took these courses. Your transcripts, sent from all colleges that you attended are there for confirmation.


kelli said:
Not sure if this is true of all Cal state schools, but at Cal State Fullerton you can register as a postbacc student. You get to enroll at the same time as their freshmen & sophomores, but after their juniors, seniors, & 2nd bachelors students. A small advantage, but an advantage nonetheless from just trying to enroll as an open university student (who get last pick out of all their students).

Should be true for all CA public schools, and I wouldn't be surprised at private schools as well. UC's offer open campus through UC Extension. As far as I am aware, SDSU also has an open campus program. SJSU, and SFSU (not the UCSF one) have their own post-bacc programs, which appears to be no more than a open campus type thing too (not really structured). Your program seems very beneficial, since through UC Extension, you are dead last to register (after freshman)..lol. :) Luckily since you should be taking upper division classes, not many freshman/sophomores are competing to get into those classes compared to junior and seniors. So might not work out too well. Personally I got in all the classes. I had to wait maybe 1-2 weeks before I got in sometimes, but it worked out in the end.
 
Do you recommend to retake lower division classes w/ low GPA in science courses? I graduated three years ago and kind given up but something happened and changed my mind to be a premed.


relentless11 said:
All undergrad coursework done after the completion of your bachelor's degree is considered post-bacc regardless of when, where, and what courses you took. On AMCAS, you are to put in ALL college coursework, and this includes any college coursework done ages ago. By definition, post-bacc GPA is included in the overall undergraduate GPA, however med schools can differentiate between your undergrad GPA (from your BA/BS program), and post-bacc.

Since you are typing in all this stuff into AMCAS, it doesn't really matter when or where you took these courses. Your transcripts, sent from all colleges that you attended are there for confirmation.




Should be true for all CA public schools, and I wouldn't be surprised at private schools as well. UC's offer open campus through UC Extension. As far as I am aware, SDSU also has an open campus program. SJSU, and SFSU (not the UCSF one) have their own post-bacc programs, which appears to be no more than a open campus type thing too (not really structured). Your program seems very beneficial, since through UC Extension, you are dead last to register (after freshman)..lol. :) Luckily since you should be taking upper division classes, not many freshman/sophomores are competing to get into those classes compared to junior and seniors. So might not work out too well. Personally I got in all the classes. I had to wait maybe 1-2 weeks before I got in sometimes, but it worked out in the end.
 
kelly9ac said:
Do you recommend to retake lower division classes w/ low GPA in science courses? I graduated three years ago and kind given up but something happened and changed my mind to be a premed.

Ummm, I'd prefer to take upper division courses since they show your ability to deal with harder classes. The only reason why I would consider taking a lower division course is if you got a D or F if your goal is to get into an MD program.

Like if you got C's in General Chem (lower division), you could make up for it by taking Physical Chemistry (upper division). Its the same topic, but you use physics, and calculus to deal with chemistry. :luck:

If you don't mind applying to DO programs, try to take more upper division classes, but definately try to retake courses which you got a C or less. If you do well on the retake, they'll replace the bad grades, and your GPA will go up dramatically.
 
relentless11 said:
try to take more upper division classes, but definately try to retake courses which you got a C or less. If you do well on the retake, they'll replace the bad grades, and your GPA will go up dramatically.

uhmmm, amcas will just average in your grades with equal weight. So if you had an F the first time and an A the second that come up to be a C. no replacement. sorry
 
relentless11 said:
Ummm, I'd prefer to take upper division courses since they show your ability to deal with harder classes. The only reason why I would consider taking a lower division course is if you got a D or F if your goal is to get into an MD program.

Like if you got C's in General Chem (lower division), you could make up for it by taking Physical Chemistry (upper division). Its the same topic, but you use physics, and calculus to deal with chemistry. :luck:

If you don't mind applying to DO programs, try to take more upper division classes, but definately try to retake courses which you got a C or less. If you do well on the retake, they'll replace the bad grades, and your GPA will go up dramatically.
Doesn't this depend on the person, though? For example, I had general chemistry in 1992. ;) I got a C, but I feel I need to retake it just because I remember nothing about it at this point.
 
Raptor said:
uhmmm, amcas will just average in your grades with equal weight. So if you had an F the first time and an A the second that come up to be a C. no replacement. sorry

Relentless made that comment about DO schools which do replace grades.
 
JustMyLuck said:
This might seem like a really stupid question, but how do post-bacc programs affect your undergrad GPA? Would this only work if you did the post-bacc at the same institution as your undergrad?
Hey--I have a similar problem with a low science GPA (around 2.3) I've taken some undergrad science courses when I was in my MPH program in Epidemiology. Now I am finished, but I know I need to revamp my science GPA by taking some of the pre-med courses again (gen chem, orgo, etc) How would schools feel if the lecture portion of gen chem was taking online? For instance I have seperate lab grades for my chemistry courses, so what I did bad in in undergrad was the lecture portion. I work full-time and cannot possibly fit a class into my schedule, unless it was online. What do you all think?
 
Raptor said:
uhmmm, amcas will just average in your grades with equal weight. So if you had an F the first time and an A the second that come up to be a C. no replacement. sorry

You might want to read my reply carefully.

relentless11 said:
If you don't mind applying to DO programs, try to take more upper division classes, but definately try to retake courses which you got a C or less. If you do well on the retake, they'll replace the bad grades, and your GPA will go up dramatically.

Retaking classes that you got a D or F in is justified REGARDLESS if AMCAS averages them. Because:

1) You failed the class, so if that is part of your major, you need to retake it anyway.

2) If it is a medical pre-req you should retake it because getting a D or F isn't going to get you far on the MCAT.

There's a reason why I put things into sections to seperate topics;).
 
relentless11 said:
I'd focus on post-bacc only rather than any graduate program because:

1) You really need to boost that UG GPA. Grad school classes do not boost UG GPA.

2) With that GPA, it'll be hard to get into a masters program anyway. Even if you did, you may lack the foundation to perform to your full potential in grad school.

Of course as many have stated. Destroy the MCAT. You will need to be over 32 or more to make up for a low GPA. I had a 2.65 UG GPA. Did post-bacc for 1.5 years and averaged about a 3.4 in biomedical engineering courses. Now in grad school and have a GPA cumulative GPA of 4.0 for my PhD program. The last time I took a real MCAT test was nearly 3 years ago and got a 36S, so it is VERY POSSIBLE to get yourself out of the low-GPA hole, and look decent. Although the low-GPA stands out, you pretty much have to make a very strong counter-effort to also make your recent academic activity stand out as well. Hence my reason for doing a PhD program while doing an unofficial post-bacc at the same time. It looks like you're on the right track with the MCAT! I wish you much luck. :luck:

Could you tell me the courses in post bac are undergrad or grad? Do these course boost my GPA? Thanks.
 
nicnicinc said:
Could you tell me the courses in post bac are undergrad or grad? Do these course boost my GPA? Thanks.

post-bacc courses count toward boosting your UG GPA
 
the alchemist said:
post-bacc courses count toward boosting your UG GPA


Thank you very much. But if the purpose of the post-bacc is to boost the UG GPA, why they still need a 2.8+ GPA for enrollment? That is not helping students. :confused:
 
nicnicinc said:
Thank you very much. But if the purpose of the post-bacc is to boost the UG GPA, why they still need a 2.8+ GPA for enrollment? That is not helping students. :confused:

i think that they want to make sure that the students they accept can handle the work academically. best thing would be to call the programs you are interested in and see if they'll make some exceptions for GPAs < 2.8. i know that at drexel's open house for their master's programs, they directly stated they wanted 3.0+ just for this reason. i have a friend who informally registered for post-bacc classes at an institution that allowed her to do that and promised to reconsider her for post-bacc acceptance if she got over a certain GPA for 1-2 semesters. unfortunately, she didn't get the grades and didn't get in and went and took informal courses at another school - but the same thing happened there so she's a nurse now. if a school allows u to prove yourself by taking informal classes, you have to be really serious (even if it means not having a life for that short time) and make the grades b/c unfortunately, med schools (and schools in general) won't give you another chance unless you have some really mitigating circumstances.

i have an UG GPA < 2.8 but i went to grad school first (had high GRE and great research recs) and did well. i've also taken post-bacc courses over the years informally with my tuition reimbursement since i've done research at universities and have a high post-bacc GPA (3.9) and MCAT > 30 and even with that, the couple of special master's programs that i applied to in case i don't get into med school (i had/have 3 interviews and still waiting to find out post-interview) put my app "on hold" for the first round of acceptances.

its very difficult with a low GPA (as opposed to ppl with lower MCAT but super high GPAs) but not impossible so talk to admissions counselors for these programs to see what you need to do to become a viable candidate for their programs. alot of times, that 2.8 or 3.0 GPA thing isn't set in stone totally.
 
nicnicinc said:
Thank you very much. But if the purpose of the post-bacc is to boost the UG GPA, why they still need a 2.8+ GPA for enrollment? That is not helping students. :confused:

It's called "cherry picking". The high end postbac programs (and SMPs) want to be able to advertise that they regularly get 90% of their students into med school, so they take the ones that are most likely to accomplish this. (picking the lowest hanging berries). I'm not sure that "helping students" is really their purported goal. The rest of the folks (the ones stuck on the higher branches) are stuck doing the informal route.
 
nicnicinc said:
Could you tell me the courses in post bac are undergrad or grad? Do these course boost my GPA? Thanks.

Depends on the program. Although I would say that most if not all post-bacc programs have you taking upper division undergrad classes which boost your overall undergrad GPA. However adcoms can differentiate between post-bacc vs. undergrad.

Some people on SDN call Special Masters Programs (SMPs) as post-bacc too. They are correct when speaking in the context that it is done after your bachelors degree. However in terms of AMCAS, post-bacc is considered all undergrad coursework done after you graduate from a BS/BA program. SMPs are graduate programs, and thus you take graduate level classes which DO NOT boost your GPA. For example the Georgetown SMP requires taking med school courses. Looks good in the eyes of the adcoms since you are performing well in actual med classes. In terms of just boosting your undergrad GPA, these classes are considered as grad/professional, and therefore are counted seperately. Ultimately both SMPs and post-baccs work great. One boosts GPA, while the other provides proof of doing well in med school classes.
 
:)
relentless11 said:
Depends on the program. Although I would say that most if not all post-bacc programs have you take upper division undergrad classes which boost your overall undergrad GPA. However adcoms can differentiate between post-bacc vs. undergrad.

Some people on SDN call Special Masters Programs (SMPs) as post-bacc too. They are correct when speaking in the context that it is done after your bachelors degree. However in terms of AMCAS, post-bacc is considered all undergrad coursework done after you graduate from a BS/BA program. SMPs are graduate programs, and thus you take graduate level classes which DO NOT boost your GPA. For example the Georgetown SMP requires taking med school courses. Looks good in the eyes of the adcoms since you are performing well in actual med classes. In terms of just boosting your undergrad GPA, these classes are considered as grad/professional, and therefore are counted seperately. Ultimately both SMPs and post-baccs work great. One boosts GPA, while the other provides proof of doing well in med school classes.

Somebody hasn't filled out their AMCAS :) . When applying to medical school, all of your GPAs are factored into the overall GPA, including any graduate courses. Saying that masters courses do not influence your cum GPA is incorrect!!! It's true that an SMP will not change your undergraduate GPA but it will reflect on your overall GPA.

Tooth
 
TiggidyTooth said:
:)

Somebody hasn't filled out their AMCAS :) . When applying to medical school, all of your GPAs are factored into the overall GPA, including any graduate courses. Saying that masters courses do not influence your cum GPA is incorrect!!! It's true that an SMP will not change your undergraduate GPA but it will reflect on your overall GPA.

Tooth

Based on my own discussions with adcoms, relentless is correct here. There is a column that is UG + Postbac UG. That is the one schools focus on. The cumulative one with graduate that you describe is not. There is a perception (valid or not) that graduate courses tend to inflate GPAs and as a result are not focused on.
 
TiggidyTooth said:
:)

Somebody hasn't filled out their AMCAS :) . When applying to medical school, all of your GPAs are factored into the overall GPA, including any graduate courses. Saying that masters courses do not influence your cum GPA is incorrect!!! It's true that an SMP will not change your undergraduate GPA but it will reflect on your overall GPA.

Tooth

Actually I have, and as Law2Doc pointed out there is differentiation between grad and undergrad. Undergrad GPA is weighted more so than grad GPA. Thus adcoms being able to make this distinction between the two grades. This is also why most schools encourage students to do post-bacc rather than grad school to improve their undergraduate GPA. I also stated that post-bacc do es count toward overall undergraduate GPA which as Law2Doc pointed out as undergrad + post-bacc undergrad.
 
Law2Doc said:
Based on my own discussions with adcoms, relentless is correct here. There is a column that is UG + Postbac UG. That is the one schools focus on. The cumulative one with graduate that you describe is not. There is a perception (valid or not) that graduate courses tend to inflate GPAs and as a result are not focused on.

Regardless of how adcoms interpret it, AMCAS definately incorporates a cum GPA that includes all course work you ever took. AMCAS breaks down all the classes you ever took and gives you all kinds of neat subcatagories adcoms can marinate over, including ugpa, postbac gpa, freshman year gpa, graduate gpa...etc, etc. Take it from someone how went through the process. Graduate course work is definately factored in.

Tooth
 
Law2Doc said:
Based on my own discussions with adcoms, relentless is correct here. There is a column that is UG + Postbac UG. That is the one schools focus on. The cumulative one with graduate that you describe is not. There is a perception (valid or not) that graduate courses tend to inflate GPAs and as a result are not focused on.

I'm staring at my amcas and there is definately a column for your graduate grades.
 
TiggidyTooth said:
Regardless of how adcoms interpret it, AMCAS definately incorporates a cum GPA that includes all course work you ever took. AMCAS breaks down all the classes you ever took and gives you all kinds of neat subcatagories adcoms can marinate over, including ugpa, postbac gpa, freshman year gpa, graduate gpa...etc, etc. Take it from someone how went through the process. Graduate course work is definately factored in.

Tooth

I too went through the process. :rolleyes: A high grad GPA is nice, but won't rehabilitate a low undergrad GPA the way a postbac will. But true, the adcoms see it all. They just don't use it all equally.
 
TiggidyTooth said:
I'm staring at my amcas and there is definately a column for your graduate grades.

Who said there wasn't? I'm just saying that when the adcoms use their cutoffs or otherwise evaluate your GPA, they aren't focussing on the grad grades the same way as the undergrad plus postbac figure.
 
relentless11 said:
Actually I have, and as Law2Doc pointed out there is differentiation between grad and undergrad. Undergrad GPA is weighted more so than grad GPA. Thus adcoms being able to make this distinction between the two grades. This is also why most schools encourage students to do post-bacc rather than grad school to improve their undergraduate GPA. I also stated that post-bacc do es count toward overall undergraduate GPA which as Law2Doc pointed out as undergrad + post-bacc undergrad.

That's great, but I'm not disagreeing with any of what you typed there and I do agree with everything you have written in the quote above. I am disagreeing with you regarding what you said about how AMCAS factors graduate grades. You said it does not count toward your cum gpa which = graduate + post-bac+undergaduate GPA. Me = right. You = wrong.
 
TiggidyTooth said:
That's great, but I'm not disagreeing with any of what you typed there and I do agree with everything you have written in the quote above. I am disagreeing with you regarding what you said about how AMCAS factors graduate grades. You said it does not count toward your cum gpa which = graduate + post-bac+undergaduate GPA. Me = right. You = wrong.

I think you are misunderstanding him/her. Graduate grades are on AMCAS and yes, there is a spot where they are factored into a total cumulative figure. But that means squat if no school actually uses that figure. Go with the figure that adcoms actually use, and the AMCAS numbers will be of some utility. Treat the graduate degree somewhat more like a great EC -- that's certainly how a lot of schools regarded mine. :)
 
TiggidyTooth said:
That's great, but I'm not disagreeing with any of what you typed there and I do agree with everything you have written in the quote above. I am disagreeing with you regarding what you said about how AMCAS factors graduate grades. You said it does not count toward your cum gpa which = graduate + post-bac+undergaduate GPA. Me = right. You = wrong.

I think you really need to read more thoroughly. I did not say that it does "not count toward your cum gpa". I said:

relentless11 said:
Depends on the program. Although I would say that most if not all post-bacc programs have you taking upper division undergrad classes which boost your overall undergrad GPA. However adcoms can differentiate between post-bacc vs. undergrad.

Some people on SDN call Special Masters Programs (SMPs) as post-bacc too. They are correct when speaking in the context that it is done after your bachelors degree. However in terms of AMCAS, post-bacc is considered all undergrad coursework done after you graduate from a BS/BA program. SMPs are graduate programs, and thus you take graduate level classes which DO NOT boost your GPA. For example the Georgetown SMP requires taking med school courses. Looks good in the eyes of the adcoms since you are performing well in actual med classes. In terms of just boosting your undergrad GPA, these classes are considered as grad/professional, and therefore are counted seperately. Ultimately both SMPs and post-baccs work great. One boosts GPA, while the other provides proof of doing well in med school classes.

Keywords: counted seperately, overall undergrad GPA

Note: I never said cumulative (cum) GPA in the entire reply. I said AMCAS consideres post-bacc as undergrad courses taken after your bachelors degree. Considering the question I was replying to was about undergrad coursework, and I stated in the first paragraph that I'm talking about undergraduate grades, how did you come to the conclusion that I was talking about cumulative GPA? Feel free to add words that I have not said or typed in this reply.
 
relentless11 said:
Depends on the program. Although I would say that most if not all post-bacc programs have you taking upper division undergrad classes which boost your overall undergrad GPA. However adcoms can differentiate between post-bacc vs. undergrad.

Some people on SDN call Special Masters Programs (SMPs) as post-bacc too. They are correct when speaking in the context that it is done after your bachelors degree. However in terms of AMCAS, post-bacc is considered all undergrad coursework done after you graduate from a BS/BA program. SMPs are graduate programs, and thus you take graduate level classes which DO NOT boost your GPA. For example the Georgetown SMP requires taking med school courses. Looks good in the eyes of the adcoms since you are performing well in actual med classes. In terms of just boosting your undergrad GPA, these classes are considered as grad/professional, and therefore are counted seperately. Ultimately both SMPs and post-baccs work great. One boosts GPA, while the other provides proof of doing well in med school classes.

I rest my case. Tis you, fair sir or madame, that should practice the art of clarifying their speech, not I who is the victim of your unnatural ability to articulate your thoughts on paper. My apologies to those who had to witness this tragic turn of events.

Tooth
 
TiggidyTooth said:
I rest my case. Tis you, fair sir or madame, that should practice the art of clarifying their speech, not I who is the victim of your unnatural ability to articulate your thoughts on paper. My apologies to those who had to witness this tragic turn of events.

Tooth

With all the focus on precise language in this thread it's the two of you who really should have been the lawyers. :laugh:
 
TiggidyTooth said:
I rest my case. Tis you, fair sir or madame, that should practice the art of clarifying their speech, not I who is the victim of your unnatural ability to articulate your thoughts on paper. My apologies to those who had to witness this tragic turn of events.

Tooth

I guess there's an invisible cumulative or cum in that sentence huh?

Law2Doc said:
With all the focus on precise language in this thread it's the two of you who really should have been the lawyers. :laugh:


Hahaha, well if you had to write up IRB's for human research subjects, you'd get pretty decent at wording;)
 
relentless11 said:
I guess there's an invisible cumulative or cum in that sentence huh?




Hahaha, well if you had to write up IRB's for human research subjects, you'd get pretty decent at wording;)

And I guess you wrote that poop text with the assumption that I was clarvoyant and out of all the different kinds of GPA's out there understood exactly that you were referring to UNDERGRADUATE GPA. Well, if that was the case than I am forever in you debt and humbly apologize.
 
TiggidyTooth said:
And I guess you wrote that poop text with the assumption that I was clarvoyant and out of all the different kinds of GPA's out there understood exactly that you were referring to UNDERGRADUATE GPA. Well, if that was the case than I am forever in you debt and humbly apologize.

You could've asked, I would've been more than happy to clarify :)
 
Law2Doc said:
It's called "cherry picking". The high end postbac programs (and SMPs) want to be able to advertise that they regularly get 90% of their students into med school, so they take the ones that are most likely to accomplish this. (picking the lowest hanging berries). I'm not sure that "helping students" is really their purported goal. The rest of the folks (the ones stuck on the higher branches) are stuck doing the informal route.


Thank you for your answer. By the way, what is formal and informal post-bacc? For those schools listed on aamc.org are formal or informal?
 
nicnicinc said:
Thank you for your answer. By the way, what is formal and informal post-bacc? For those schools listed on aamc.org are formal or informal?

if i'm not mistaken, formal post-bac programs refer to the programs most people think of when you mention doing post-bac work. informal programs refer to individuals taking undergrad level classes as a non-matriculant in order to boost their undergraduate gpa, without applying to (or being admitted to) any structured post-bac "program."

correct me if i'm wrong.

which, to answer your question, should make most of the programs on the aamc site formal post-bacs.
 
zahque said:
if i'm not mistaken, formal post-bac programs refer to the programs most people think of when you mention doing post-bac work. informal programs refer to individuals taking undergrad level classes as a non-matriculant in order to boost their undergraduate gpa, without applying to (or being admitted to) any structured post-bac "program."

correct me if i'm wrong.

which, to answer your question, should make most of the programs on the aamc site formal post-bacs.

Yes - that's exactly what I meant.
 
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