Reapply? Because I'm Confused

[scdocusc]

So here is my story. My stats are a 22 on the MCAT a 3.6 overall GPA and 3.39 science GPA. I worked in a hospital for 2 years as a phlebotomist so I have lots and lots of patient exposure. I applied this past cycle (2007) to Nova and VCOM. I got flat out rejections from Nova and an interview then a rejection from VCOM. When I called up VCOM and talked with Megan, she suggested that I take 2 upper level biology classes, retake the MCAT and volunteer at the free medical clinic in town. I want to do all of that but I dont really have the finances to do all of them. In addition, I dont believe that I would be able to complete all of them in satisfactory manor. I Called Megan and she told me that should couldnt speak for the Adcom but she suggested that I take the two upper level biology courses since VCOM looks at GPA heavily. So, given all of this, I am taking more courses and volunteering more. I'm just worried that since I wasnt placed on the "waitinglist" that I wasnt even close to admission. What should I do? should I do what she said and take my chances or should I try to do them all and accept mediocre grades in all the areas? Also, I've looked at the reapplicant board but there is not much. I was wondering if anyone out there knows if they look down upon reapplicants at VCOM? I know this post was long to read but I really need as much input as I can get. Thanks

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[MCATTT]

"I want to do all of that but I dont really have the finances to do all of them. In addition, I dont believe that I would be able to complete all of them in satisfactory manor."

Why do you believe that you will not be able to do good on those classes?
You should have some confidence in yourself.
Your GPA is not that bad. If I were you, I will retake MCAT again to bump it up to at least 25.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

"I want to do all of that but I dont really have the finances to do all of them. In addition, I dont believe that I would be able to complete all of them in satisfactory manor."

Why do you believe that you will not be able to do good on those classes?
You should have some confidence in yourself.
Your GPA is not that bad. If I were you, I will retake MCAT again to bump it up to at least 25.

yea i second MCATTT , it's funny how he also talks about MCAT's. Besides the point you should try retaking your MCATS and never give up hope on yourself...you are capable of doing great things like everyone else. Dont think,just do it!

 

[Krisss17]

I think that the number 1 obstacle standing in your way is your MCAT. I think if you can bring it up to a minimum of 25 your chances will approve. Plus another thing is that you say that you applied to only 2 schools...unless you have really good stats, applying to only 2 schools significantly decreases your odds.

If you can take two upper level biology classes and do well it will help your GPA although it is not a bad GPA overall. Also, I don't know how volunteering is going to give you any more exposure to patients.

So, if I were you...I would concentrate on the MCAT...

Krisss17

 

[sunnyjohn]

I think that the number 1 obstacle standing in your way is your MCAT. I think if you can bring it up to a minimum of 25 your chances will approve. Plus another thing is that you say that you applied to only 2 schools...unless you have really good stats, applying to only 2 schools significantly decreases your odds.

If you can take two upper level biology classes and do well it will help your GPA although it is not a bad GPA overall. Also, I don't know how volunteering is going to give you any more exposure to patients.

So, if I were you...I would concentrate on the MCAT...

Krisss17

I concur. Since you have limited funds, you need to map out your plan carefully.

Step 1 should be an MCAT retake. Over 25 would improve your chances. Study for a 30 (10,10,10).

If you can scrap together the money take one upper-level undergrad bio class.

You should also consider applying to more than 2 schools to increase your chances. You don't need 25 schools, but you do need to carefully check out the MSAR and AACOM website to maximize your application dollars and apply smartly.

 

[scdocusc]

thank you all for your help. However, Megan Price advised me to take classes and Volunteer work if I had to choose two of the three. Ideally I'd like to do them all but working full time and doing all those is stretching it.

 

[froggiepremed]

have you considered applying to more schools that do not way your GPA as much...it isn't bad!

 

[MaximusD]

yeah one upper level science A plus a 25+ on the MCAT should do the trick... it would push your science GPA over that 3.4 hump.

I think she should have emphasized retaking the MCAT more. You shoudl be able to score above a 22 if you're serious about med school. Stick your head in a kaplan/princeton review book for a few months and take at least 4-5 practice tests, 2 of which should be in the month preceding your test date.

Best of luck! Any more questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[bkpa2med]

Are there any restrictions to applying only to those 2 schools? I'd tell you to apply more broadly next time and re-take the MCAT. That would be your best bet.

 

[Krisss17]

thank you all for your help. However, Megan Price advised me to take classes and Volunteer work if I had to choose two of the three. Ideally I'd like to do them all but working full time and doing all those is stretching it.

To me, it sounds as though you re going to be putting all of your eggs in the same basket and just apply to the same two schools again...I think that you not making plans to put effort into upping your MCAT is going to create some questions is you get an intereview. They are going to still see the 22 and wonder why you didn't take steps to improve that.

I totally understanding full-time...I'm doing the same. I'm still going to make sure that I keep my GPA up and get a competitive MCAT and with an MCAT of less than 25, it is just not competitive. Medical schools, I believe, see the MCAT as an indication of how you will do on your boards as well as how critically you think. Yes, if you can take additional classes and do well in them and volunteer a few hours a week, great...but the MCAT needs to be remedied, especially if you are narrowing your schools to this one and a couple of others.

 

[WALKE219]

There are a couple ways to look at this:

1. With a 22 on your MCAT, you would have to have an extremely strong GPA. Your GPA is good, but probably not strong enough to overcome this score. With your GPA, a 25 would probably put you in decent shape to at least get interviews. Obviously higher is better. So option 1 - try to retake the MCAT.

2. Option 2 - Retake science courses. Do the math on your science GPA, and figure out if there are 2 - 4 classes you could retake to make a significant impact on your GPA. If you choose this route, I would highly suggest UPPER level sciences, they have the greatest adcom influence. Say you got a couple of 2.5 grades in these classes... Since AACOMAS takes the higher of the two getting 4.0 in these would really help. However, if you simply have a bunch of 3.0 - 3.5, retakes wouldn't really help all that much. Crunch the numbers and see if it is worth the time/money.

ECs, LORs, and all that do matter, but if we're being honest the GPA/MCAT are more important.

All this being said, remember one thing about the MCAT - because of the way it is scored, it is quite difficult to greatly improve your score. If you did get a 22 with actually studying quite a bit, there isn't a very good chance that you will end up getting a 30 on a retake. It isn't like some Orgo test you would take as an undergrad. Of course this is not the rule, and people have done it. Most people can expect to gain <=2 points IF they study a lot more and have nothing else going on. The stories you hear about people gaining >5 points usually have a catch. A personal problem surrounding the first administration, an extremely heavy course load the same semester, etc. Therefore, I think it would be wise to do a combination of the two. Try to retake a couple courses that are sour points on your application, (upper sciences or pre req) All the while studying for the MCAT. If you have some classes you could retake that were in areas your MCAT suffered, all the better. Don't rush retaking the MCAT either, give yourself MONTHS to study. Now that they give a ton of testing dates doens't mean that you should rush into one to get it over with. Take a lot of time, remember, before they offered these million test dates, it was only twice a year and people studied for a good 6 - 7 months.

Going back and redoing things will also show the adcom that you are serious about medical school. I hope this post didn't discourage you - because if you are willing to put the work in, it can and has be done. Good luck

 

[psychbender]

I'd have to agree with retaking the MCAT, and maybe an upper-level science that you may have done poorly on the first go-around. Also, definitely widen your search area. Finally, since you got the rejection from VCOM after the interview, is there any chance that this is where your weakness (with respect to this school) lay? You said earlier that you thought you tanked the interview (something about convoluted responses), so maybe that's part of the problem.

Or, you could take the DATs and apply to dental school (yes, I looked up your previous posts).

 

[scdocusc]

in my defense. I was looking at other options in healthcare after my rejection probably prematurely. In any case, I have taken the MCAT twice already with the same score. My concern is if I take it again and dont go up or actually decrease. Will Adcom's look down on that? Its clear I need to retake the MCAT and take one class but I dont want to hurt my application either. Thanks again for all your input

 

[grinchick5]

Have you taken an MCAT prep course? They're pricey, but if medicine is what you REALLY want, it may be worth the $$$. I thought it was helpful.

 

[boodgie]

scdocusc,
when did you apply? applying early REALLY increases your chances of getting in. also, have you shadowed a DO and received a good LOR from that doc?
I suggest that you fill out the primary in May (or whenever it first comes out),
redo your essay (a MUST when you reapply), take an upper-level bio course,
and do some community service work. Additional "shadowing" is good too. Adcoms like to see lots of clinical experience because it demonstrates your interest in medicine. What about research experience to round it out?
Don't retake the MCAT...unless you really think you can bring it up.
APPLY EARLY! A 22 MCAT is not the end of the world.

 

[scdocusc]

I took princeton review TWICE! it helped but not much. Does anyone know if I take the MCAT in August if that will hold up my application? I want to apply as early as I can this year (MAY/JUNE)

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I concur. Since you have limited funds, you need to map out your plan carefully.

Step 1 should be an MCAT retake. Over 25 would improve your chances. Study for a 30 (10,10,10).

If you can scrap together the money take one upper-level undergrad bio class.

You should also consider applying to more than 2 schools to increase your chances. You don't need 25 schools, but you do need to carefully check out the MSAR and AACOM website to maximize your application dollars and apply smartly.

Also, check out fee waiver/assistance plans.

 

[WALKE219]

I have to be honest with you... You may want to consider another type of healthcare career. The posters are right, a 22 isn't the END of the world, and applying early could help your position. Chances are though, if you REAPPLY at places you have already been rejected from, even if you apply much ealier, you will still be denied without some sort of improvement to your scores. Also, I might be leaning toward retaking courses to up your GPA vs. retaking the MCAT. If you have taken it twice, and gotten the same score, then chances are you won't improve with a third try. Like I said, upping your score is difficult because of the way they score the exam. I couple things could happen if you don't raise your score.

1. Your score could be lower. This would be bad for very obvious reasons.

2.Your could score a 22 again. This might show adcoms that were worried about your score that this is the best you can do. That would be a problem with a lot of schools because statistics show that if you cannot score a 25, you will have big problems with your board exams. You don't want to show that you can't improve. It would probably be better to just keep your 22 and let them think there could have been another reason for it than to show consistently that a 22 is the best you can do.

If you want medicine really, really bad… I would tell you to retake some courses that could impact your GPA. If you can realistically take enough classes in a couple semesters to get your GPA to about a 3.5+, then I would tell you that you have a pretty good shot at least getting some interviews.

Without this GPA jump, I would have to say it is pretty unrealistic to think that you will get accepted anywhere or that you will really improve your MCAT after two tries getting the same score. When you do apply, apply early. Also though, have a back up plan… perhaps apply to other types of graduate schools you are interested in.

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

good GPA, but if you cannot score HIGHER that 25 on the MCAT, it will be a HUGE problem.... High 20's low 30's are standard now.... Are you by chance a non-native english speaker? sometimes that can be a factor in the MCAT.... If you can't get there with the MCAT, it will not bode well for your ability in med school or on the licensing exams.

 

[WALKE219]

Okay buddy , I just read your last post after I posted above...

I gotta tell you - if you took the course twice and studied and whatnot and still got a 22, you really need to think about your future in medicine.

You are probably a very intelligent, but the fact is the board exams are standardized tests and if you can’t score well on them, you won’t be able to become a physician even if you get into school. It would be a huge shame for you to dedicate another couple years and finances to school and not be able to pass your boards, and have to quit.

After twice taking the exam, getting the same score, what makes you think that this time you will somehow do better? Examine how you were studying. I think you really need to take a year off if you are serious about getting into medical school. You seem to be saying you want to apply in June, but then NOTHING would be different about your application to these schools. If you want this, take the year, take some classes, and study BOTH Semesters, really hard, for like the April MCAT and then apply in June with (hopefully) a better score.

I don’t want to shoot you down or anything but giving you false hope is wrong too… Making yourself look good to medical school is going to take a lot of work, and retaking like 3 classes could REALLY help your case. Remember though, getting in isn’t the only important part. You have to pass once you get in!!

 

[WALKE219]

scdocusc,
when did you apply? applying early REALLY increases your chances of getting in. also, have you shadowed a DO and received a good LOR from that doc?
I suggest that you fill out the primary in May (or whenever it first comes out),
redo your essay (a MUST when you reapply), take an upper-level bio course,
and do some community service work. Additional "shadowing" is good too. Adcoms like to see lots of clinical experience because it demonstrates your interest in medicine. What about research experience to round it out?
Don't retake the MCAT...unless you really think you can bring it up.
APPLY EARLY! A 22 MCAT is not the end of the world.

Yeah, a 22 isn't the end of the world... but if you get into medical school, and cannot pass the board exams, then getting in with a 22 did you no good. A serious candidate for medical school needs to be realistic, and after taking two courses they should be able to score higher than a 25.

To give some perspective, I took the MCAT as a Sophomore, after not even taking all of my prereqs. No mcat course and I had 20 credits, and I got in the high 20's. I retook in Junior year with a class and got mid 30's. You should see improvement if capable, especially after two classes.

 

[Tiagao]

Scdoc,

You don't need to reconsider your career choices because of taking the MCAT score more than without improvement, IF you still feel that you weren't prepared when you took it. I took the MCAT 3 times, 22, 21, 27. I have been accepted this time around and am still waiting to hear back from a couple of other schools. For me, I was studying the wrong way. I took Kaplan's classroom course the first 2 times. It just wasn't for me. I felt that most of the instructors were there for the money and not the teaching. The 3rd time I studied by my self and did the AAMC practice tests ...... all of them. I decided that I wouldn't take the test until my lowest practice scores was adequate because I had bottomed out on test day. My practice scores ranged from 27 to 33. I was sure that I could live with that and have been content with the results. Good luck.

T

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

Your solution is quite simple... You DO NOT need to retake the MCAT or even take more classes, ofcourse it would help but not necessary! By you getting an interview it tells me that you meet the requirements. Where you MESSED up is in that you only applied to 2 schools! Apply at least 8 of them, so lets say you get 4 interviews out of those, then now one is more than likely gonna take you. APPLY TO AS MANY as possible and EARLY! You're stats are ok, use ur money on good quality applications!

PEACE!

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

I have to be honest with you... You may want to consider another type of healthcare career.

NEVER EVER EVER listen to comments like this.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Your solution is quite simple... You DO NOT need to retake the MCAT or even take more classes, ofcourse it would help but not necessary! By you getting an interview it tells me that you meet the requirements. Where you MESSED up is in that you only applied to 2 schools! Apply at least 8 of them, so lets say you get 4 interviews out of those, then now one is more than likely gonna take you. APPLY TO AS MANY as possible and EARLY! You're stats are ok, use ur money on good quality applications!

PEACE!

Horrible advice IMO. Why would you not want to retake such a low MCAT...simply b/c you meet the min. req. and somehow got an interview? Things change year to year and if the schools you are applying to see that you did nothing to improve a 22 MCAT they are going to raise some questions. Retake, apply broadly and you will prob. be fine with your GPA.

 

[Lfribble]

I second Dr McDreamy. Don't listen to people who tell you to change your field. If you want to be a physician, do what you think is possible to help your application- if you can't afford 2 classes, take 1. I think mainly, don't spread yourself too thin that you get bad grades because you're trying to work, study, volunteer etc. However you decide to improve yourself for next application period, give it your best shot. An MCAT of 22 isn't out of the running, I know people who got in with a 19 and a 16. DO schools especially are supposed to look at all aspects of the candidate. I also agree that you should apply to more than 2 schools for your best chance.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Your solution is quite simple... You DO NOT need to retake the MCAT or even take more classes, ofcourse it would help but not necessary! By you getting an interview it tells me that you meet the requirements. Where you MESSED up is in that you only applied to 2 schools! Apply at least 8 of them, so lets say you get 4 interviews out of those, then now one is more than likely gonna take you. APPLY TO AS MANY as possible and EARLY! You're stats are ok, use ur money on good quality applications!

PEACE!

I disagree to an extent. Sure, those stats are considered "good enough" for DO schools. However, as a re-applicant, you will be asked what you have done to better improve your file. Your answer can't be, "umm, I applied early this time!" .. No, they will be looking for improvements primarily in the MCAT since your GPA is fine. You have enough EC/Medical experiences and there is no point to do anymore (it's fine to continue doing it if it's ongoing). I'd say boost the MCAT some and apply early. Also, like I said previously, check out fee waiver plans. You may not have to pay for all those secondaries and could potentially get a free or reduced MCAT, too. Applying broadly is alright, but not necessary. If you apply broadly, do it efficiently and strategize. Apply to areas where you know there is no regional or state bias and you should be fine.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I second Dr McDreamy. Don't listen to people who tell you to change your field. If you want to be a physician, do what you think is possible to help your application- if you can't afford 2 classes, take 1. I think mainly, don't spread yourself too thin that you get bad grades because you're trying to work, study, volunteer etc. However you decide to improve yourself for next application period, give it your best shot. An MCAT of 22 isn't out of the running, I know people who got in with a 19 and a 16. DO schools especially are supposed to look at all aspects of the candidate. I also agree that you should apply to more than 2 schools for your best chance.

Were they re-applicants? Probably not.

Quite frankly, I don't think I have heard of a school to conisder those scores. It may be possible, but if schools are allowing those MCAT scores, it sort of puts to question the admissions process of those schools that considered them for admission.

 

[MCATTT]

Were they re-applicants? Probably not.

Quite frankly, I don't think I have heard of a school to conisder those scores. It may be possible, but if schools are allowing those MCAT scores, it sort of puts to question the admissions process of those schools that considered them for admission.

I've never heard of anyone getting in with a 16.
Someone who get in with 19 probably have lots of other EC and things that make him/her stands out. Even then, these cases are few and far between.
It is just like some rare cases where (usually) a URM get in to MD schools with Mcat = 22s. Indeed, these are very few cases.

I agree with Dr. Inviz. The OP should retake MCAT. An MCAT score of 25+ will open many doors for the OP.

 

[WALKE219]

Realistically though people... I am all about following your dreams to become a physician.

When you say "Never ever ever listen to a post like this" Why? Do you think it is better to encourage an applicant to retake a test over and over and over and over again?

I highly doubt any one got into any US medical school with an MCAT of a 16. (or a 19 for that matter) Remember you cannot believe everything you read online or hear from people.

What people have to consider, and don't consider is that simply getting into medical school isn't the only thing that matters. This is where my previous posts become important. This is why medical school admissions committees use numbers in their decision. It is simply immature and narrow minded to think that everyone who wants to practice medicine is capable of doing so. I am not saying that MCAT and GPA are the only thing that matters, but what if a person does get into medical school and cannot pass his/her board exams? What then?

We are looking here at a OP who has taken the MCAT twice, with the same score both times. A 22 is, in no way, a good score. This person has taken the courses not once, but twice, with no improvement to their score. Let's say they do take it a third time and get another 22, then what? We have to be realistic in advice, and it's not always going to be what people want to hear.. "Go get em, tiger" doesn't always work. There will probably be little between now and another testing administration that will change for the OP.


To the people who just are thinking about getting into medical school:
Say this person gets in with their 22. What happens if they cannot pass the licensing board exam? They don't get 200 chances to retake the test. They will have thrown away thousands of dollars and years of their life. I believe it is better to give people realistic expectations of their chances IN MEDICAL school, than simply getting into medical school. The licensing exams are standardized tests, much like the MCAT, and they require the same kind of thinking.... if you can't score well on one, there is little evidence to suggest you will score well on the other.

In closing, I am not against the OP taking the exam again, getting into medical school, or becoming a physician. I would love to see them realize their dreams, whatever they may be. I am not trying to be hard on someone at all, but they MUST realize it is going to be tough to do this, and they better be committed to figuring out where and why they are going wrong in standardized testing in order to be able to score well on the board exams.

Im sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way... my intentions are good, not to make fun of someone or discourage someone at all.


FYI - Not doing well, but simply "passing" on the USMLE step 1 is a 185 - this won't get you into any residency programs, but will let you pass... This is about a 60% on the test.. Think about the MCAT vs this and you will see what I mean

 

[scdocusc]

thanks to everyone who has given there input. I have taken it in and consulted many advisors about the situation. In regards to the MCAT, I've asked countless MD's and D.O's alike about the correlation between the MCAT and Board exams and they state 100% that there is little or no correlation between the two. In addition if you read the JAOA article on a study of this. It further proves there is little or no SIGNIFICANT correlation between the two. People said the same thing in highschool about the SAT and college and that proved false for me too. Thanks for your input again but I am very hesitant to believe some of these posts. The boiled down point is that I need to improve my application in some or all of those areas for next cycle, and apply to more schools. Good luck to everyone!


http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/332

 

[Dr.Inviz]

thanks to everyone who has given there input. I have taken it in and consulted many advisors about the situation. In regards to the MCAT, I've asked countless MD's and D.O's alike about the correlation between the MCAT and Board exams and they state 100% that there is little or no correlation between the two. In addition if you read the JAOA article on a study of this. It further proves there is little or no SIGNIFICANT correlation between the two. People said the same thing in highschool about the SAT and college and that proved false for me too. Thanks for your input again but I am very hesitant to believe some of these posts. The boiled down point is that I need to improve my application in some or all of those areas for next cycle, and apply to more schools. Good luck to everyone!


http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/332

I can guarantee this. If you don't retake the MCAT and improve upon it, then chances are you won't get in. If you do, then more power to you. I do not think that as a re-app, you can simply get away with the "bare minimum" and apply early ... that is where I disagree with DocMc.

In addition, I didn't realise it was your 2nd time taking it and both times you scored a 22. That is also not good. IF a 3rd or 4th time you take it and score in that range, maybe those that said it could be necessary to move on are correct. You don't want to be in a 100K+ in debt and a med school drop-out because you couldn't do well on your Step 1.

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

Were they re-applicants? Probably not.

Quite frankly, I don't think I have heard of a school to conisder those scores. It may be possible, but if schools are allowing those MCAT scores, it sort of puts to question the admissions process of those schools that considered them for admission.

Actually, of course this is rare but I know someone who got in with a 19 MCAT and 3.3 GPA on her 4th year applying. She struggled but she finally got in. From my previous post about not "needing" to retake the MCAT, well of course I recommend you retake it if you can do better, but 22 can get you in thats all. It's just that "do better on the MCAT" is such an obvious answer. Im sure he already knows that!

If however, you decide to reapply with the same stats, PM me, i know how you can get in!

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Actually, of course this is rare but I know someone who got in with a 19 MCAT and 3.3 GPA on her 4th year applying. She struggled but she finally got in. From my previous post about not "needing" to retake the MCAT, well of course I recommend you retake it if you can do better, but 22 can get you in thats all. It's just that "do better on the MCAT" is such an obvious answer. Im sure he already knows that!

If however, you decide to reapply with the same stats, PM me, i know how you can get in!

hmm, are you even a reapplicant? That's a bold statement, considering you aren't an adcom.

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

Realistically though people... I am all about following your dreams to become a physician.

When you say "Never ever ever listen to a post like this" Why? Do you think it is better to encourage an applicant to retake a test over and over and over and over again?

I highly doubt any one got into any US medical school with an MCAT of a 16. (or a 19 for that matter) Remember you cannot believe everything you read online or hear from people.

You know, I have a huge problem with this, and I won't go into detail about it because it's personal. I have worked in hospitals for the past 8 years, and those of you that have also worked at hospital might also agree, but one thing I refuse to do is to look back when im 45 yrs old and think... "geee, maybe I should have tried harder!!!" Thats why you now see people at your interviews that are older than 40, 50 or even 60. At one of my interviews there was a man interviewing who I thought was faculty, until they called his name for the interview, he had to be at least 50.

Ok, this is why I say NEVER EVER EVER give up. Because my biggest dream in life had been to be a doctor and I just couldn't get in. After hearing people say, "dude, just do something else", I did. I had given up on being a doctor!! So I applied to the FBI. I was in the middle of an FBI physical test and as I took a break in the bathroom I looked at myself in the mirror and looked at myself in disapointment. When you work soooo hard for yrs to do something, "WHY GIVE UP WHEN YOU ARE ALMOST THERE!!!" So I decided to give it one more try this year. So after many yrs of trying, after getting over 35 letters of rejection, I was accepted this year!

To the OP, Man, IT'S NEVER OVER!!! DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE!!! Besides, you have good stats and you are almost in, starting a new field WILL be the dumbest thing you could ever do and YOU will regret it for the rest of your life!

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

hmm, are you even a reapplicant? That's a bold statement, considering you aren't an adcom.

YES SIR!!! Im a veteran!

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

We are looking here at a OP who has taken the MCAT twice, with the same score both times. A 22 is, in no way, a good score. This person has taken the courses not once, but twice, with no improvement to their score. Let's say they do take it a third time and get another 22, then what? We have to be realistic in advice, and it's not always going to be what people want to hear.. "Go get em, tiger" doesn't always work. There will probably be little between now and another testing administration that will change for the OP.


To the people who just are thinking about getting into medical school:
Say this person gets in with their 22. What happens if they cannot pass the licensing board exam? They don't get 200 chances to retake the test. They will have thrown away thousands of dollars and years of their life. I believe it is better to give people realistic expectations of their chances IN MEDICAL school, than simply getting into medical school. The licensing exams are standardized tests, much like the MCAT, and they require the same kind of thinking.... if you can't score well on one, there is little evidence to suggest you will score well on the other.

Oh, and I DO know someone that DID get into a Texas Medical School with a 16. BELIEVE ME, I couldn't believe at first, but she did. A good school at that too. But to me these cases are all about who you know! Usually daddy and mommie took care of that!

Also, bro, I do research at a TX medical school, so alot of my good friends are Doctors and medical students. One of my best friends who TORE UP the MCAT did not do so well on the USMLE, he's now in internal medicine, which I love. HIS WIFE on the other hand STRUGGLED with the MCAT, took it multiple times, and guess what?? SHE TORE up the USMLE and is now a RADIOLOGY resident! The MCAT and COMLEX/USMLE are two completely different types of test. The bottom line is, once we all start school, MCAT, undergrad GPA disappears, we all start from the beginning. The ones that do well are those that have disipline and are not distracted. Of course being a freaking genius helps... anyways.... how you do in your undergrad and MCAT doesn't predict it all!

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Oh, and I DO know someone that DID get into a Texas Medical School with a 16. BELIEVE ME, I couldn't believe at first, but she did. A good school at that too. But to me these cases are all about who you know! Usually daddy and mommie took care of that!

Also, bro, I do research at a TX medical school, so alot of my good friends are Doctors and medical students. One of my best friends who TORE UP the MCAT did not do so well on the USMLE, he's now in internal medicine, which I love. HIS WIFE on the other hand STRUGGLED with the MCAT, took it multiple times, and guess what?? SHE TORE up the USMLE and is now a RADIOLOGY resident! The MCAT and COMLEX/USMLE are two completely different types of test. The bottom line is, once we all start school, MCAT, undergrad GPA disappears, we all start from the beginning. The ones that do well are those that have disipline and are not distracted. Of course being a freaking genius helps... anyways.... how you do in your undergrad and MCAT doesn't predict it all!

Which school, I'd love to know. Maybe I should have applied there ...

Anyways, there is no way she got in with a 16. A 16/45 is horrendous. The average sub-score was a little over a 5 on each score. Even if the friend scored a 10 on 1 subscore, that still is HORRID. IF this is true, there is probably ALOT more that went into affect for your friend's admission, like some elbow-grease. I can't imagine anyone with a 4.0 still getting in with a 16 MCAT no matter how much EC/Med/Research experience a person may have. I know TX is in-state friendly, but I did not imagine THIS friendly. I am assuming it wasnt a DO school since you said "a texas med school," and again, I question the claim.

I just noticed where you mentioned "mommy and daddy took care of it." If that is the case, there was no reason to post that little tid-bit on a person getting in with a 16 because that person got into the med school the wrong way and had an outside advantage, which I'm sure happens often, but isn't worth parading about.

 

[Doctor McDreamy]

Which school, I'd love to know. Maybe I should have applied there ...

Anyways, there is no way she got in with a 16. A 16/45 is horrendous. The average sub-score was a little over a 5 on each score. Even if the friend scored a 10 on 1 subscore, that still is HORRID. IF this is true, there is probably ALOT more that went into affect for your friend's admission, like some elbow-grease. I can't imagine anyone with a 4.0 still getting in with a 16 MCAT no matter how much EC/Med/Research experience a person may have. I know TX is in-state friendly, but I did not imagine THIS friendly. I am assuming it wasnt a DO school since you said "a texas med school," and again, I question the claim.

I just noticed where you mentioned "mommy and daddy took care of it." If that is the case, there was no reason to post that little tid-bit on a person getting in with a 16 because that person got into the med school the wrong way and had an outside advantage, which I'm sure happens often, but isn't worth parading about.

Yeah believe me I was pissed when I found out she got in. I was happy for her, but shoootttt, thats NOT right! I don't know if she knew anyone or had hook-ups, I really don't know, but "SOMEHOW" they accepted her. I'm telling you, she must of had someone. and the school is Texas A&M!

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Yeah believe me I was pissed when I found out she got in. I was happy for her, but shoootttt, thats NOT right! I don't know if she knew anyone or had hook-ups, I really don't know, but "SOMEHOW" they accepted her. I'm telling you, she must of had someone. and the school is Texas A&M!

Like I said, no reason to parade unethical and immoral actions. She will flunk out of med school. I hope this parading of potential 16s getting into med school doesn't stir up more pre-meds in the woodworks with posts of "can i get into med school with a 2.0 and a 12MCAT???" ... totally ludicrous.

TX A&M, that explains a lot. Go Longhorns.

 

[jigglyboo]

Hey, Just for some good spirits 4 ya(hopefully)...

I got similar scores
applied to 10 schools
waitlisted at two schools
taken the MCAT twice prior(didn't improve much between the 2.)

At this point, I personally won't be applying a consecutive time b/c my application isn't any different. So point being... it's gonna take at least a year until I'd apply again.

Before I apply though, I'd probably retake the MCAT after I've done some other things to make my app prettier... by that time at least it's been 3 yrs since my mcat (i'm on my 2nd yr since). If you really really have to go to one of those 2 schools, haul that A$$ buddy. This whole process is endearing, g'luck!

 

[WALKE219]

so you just justified your statement that people get into medical school with 16 MCATS by saying "SOMEHOW" she got in and that she must have "has someone" That doesn't really make your point solid. All I was saying is that before someone commits to more school, a financial and time burden, it would be wise to consider if they can score well on the boards, given their MCAT. There is very little correlation between the MCAT and board exams, ABOVE a certain mark... which I believe is a 25. It would be a shame to give someone all kinds of hope, have them consider nothing else for their life, have them get into medical school some how , and then not pass the boards... then what?


Once again - I am not saying this NEVER happens for people, but it is not the majority.

It is better to be realistic than to give pipe dreams to people.

 

[MaximusD]

I have to be honest with you... You may want to consider another type of healthcare career. The posters are right, a 22 isn't the END of the world, and applying early could help your position. Chances are though, if you REAPPLY at places you have already been rejected from, even if you apply much ealier, you will still be denied without some sort of improvement to your scores. Also, I might be leaning toward retaking courses to up your GPA vs. retaking the MCAT. If you have taken it twice, and gotten the same score, then chances are you won't improve with a third try. Like I said, upping your score is difficult because of the way they score the exam. I couple things could happen if you don't raise your score.

1. Your score could be lower. This would be bad for very obvious reasons.

2.Your could score a 22 again. This might show adcoms that were worried about your score that this is the best you can do. That would be a problem with a lot of schools because statistics show that if you cannot score a 25, you will have big problems with your board exams. You don't want to show that you can't improve. It would probably be better to just keep your 22 and let them think there could have been another reason for it than to show consistently that a 22 is the best you can do.

If you want medicine really, really bad&#8230; I would tell you to retake some courses that could impact your GPA. If you can realistically take enough classes in a couple semesters to get your GPA to about a 3.5+, then I would tell you that you have a pretty good shot at least getting some interviews.

Without this GPA jump, I would have to say it is pretty unrealistic to think that you will get accepted anywhere or that you will really improve your MCAT after two tries getting the same score. When you do apply, apply early. Also though, have a back up plan&#8230; perhaps apply to other types of graduate schools you are interested in.

I honestly think this is an awful post. Stop playing defense. Play offense.

If you've studied for the MCAT, you've been studying in the wrong way.
When you took Prineton Review did you study 2-3 hours prior to every class?

I can't believe that you took a prep course twice and only scored a 22. Try harder. If this is what you really want, you HAVE to do better. Bury your head in the books this time. Work on strategies. Remember, it's just as important to beat the test with timing tricks and notetaking (still possible with computers...?) as it is to actually know the material. Honestly. On test day I improved from an 10 to a 13 on VR simply by reading something between PS and VR. Sometimes little tips can make a large psychological and functional impact.

Keep in midn, you can still do medicine without improving anything... Try applying to DCOM, TUCOM-NY, or carib schools. (TO FLAMERS: I AM NOT SAYING DCOM; TUCOM-NY = CARIB!!)

 

[Taty]

You know, I have a huge problem with this, and I won't go into detail about it because it's personal. I have worked in hospitals for the past 8 years, and those of you that have also worked at hospital might also agree, but one thing I refuse to do is to look back when im 45 yrs old and think... "geee, maybe I should have tried harder!!!" Thats why you now see people at your interviews that are older than 40, 50 or even 60. At one of my interviews there was a man interviewing who I thought was faculty, until they called his name for the interview, he had to be at least 50.

Ok, this is why I say NEVER EVER EVER give up. Because my biggest dream in life had been to be a doctor and I just couldn't get in. After hearing people say, "dude, just do something else", I did. I had given up on being a doctor!! So I applied to the FBI. I was in the middle of an FBI physical test and as I took a break in the bathroom I looked at myself in the mirror and looked at myself in disapointment. When you work soooo hard for yrs to do something, "WHY GIVE UP WHEN YOU ARE ALMOST THERE!!!" So I decided to give it one more try this year. So after many yrs of trying, after getting over 35 letters of rejection, I was accepted this year!

To the OP, Man, IT'S NEVER OVER!!! DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE!!! Besides, you have good stats and you are almost in, starting a new field WILL be the dumbest thing you could ever do and YOU will regret it for the rest of your life!

All my respect to you. Good Luck in medical school, you will make a great doc

 

[Instatewaiter]

FYI - Not doing well, but simply "passing" on the USMLE step 1 is a 185 - this won't get you into any residency programs, but will let you pass... This is about a 60% on the test.. Think about the MCAT vs this and you will see what I mean

A low but passing score will get you into residency programs. You can do Peds, Psych or IM no problem. With good recommendations you can do OBgyn, PR&R etc. Surgery, Derm and Ophtho may be out but those are near impossible to get anyway.

In regards to the MCAT, I've asked countless MD's and D.O's alike about the correlation between the MCAT and Board exams and they state 100% that there is little or no correlation between the two. In addition if you read the JAOA article on a study of this. It further proves there is little or no SIGNIFICANT correlation between the two.
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/104/8/332

Hate to break it to you but your article says there IS a significant correlation between MCAT and boards. In studies like this you are never going to find an R=1.00 or even close. R>.3 is statistically significant.

In addition, I didn't realise it was your 2nd time taking it and both times you scored a 22. That is also not good. IF a 3rd or 4th time you take it and score in that range, maybe those that said it could be necessary to move on are correct. You don't want to be in a 100K+ in debt and a med school drop-out because you couldn't do well on your Step 1.

From a 22 there is a lot of room to improve. A 22 tells me that you must have major knowledge and technique gaps that can be filled in and improved. It is going to be a lot of work but you can definitely improve significantly.

I recommend taking the year off from applying. In that time frame you can easily complete all 3 of those things. Here is the time frame I would recommend. Take a class or 2 in the summer. Volunteer at the free clinic twice a month for a few hours each time. A few hours a month is not exactly going to be a major strain.

From now until you decide to take the MCAT again, study. Don't half ass it either. The best way to start is to go through the major topics in BS and PS cursorily and pick out the topics that you are weak in. From there spend at least 1-2 FULL days on each topic. I don't know how you approached the first 2 MCATs but the classes at Princeton or Kaplan are completely worthless. The only way you will improve is to study on your own. I recommend the Kaplan or EK books b/c that is what I used so I can speak to their quality. Sheer repetition is the best way to learn the material.

I recommend studying for at least 1 hour per day EVERY DAY except on days you attack your weak subject (use the full day) or on break days. To prevent burn out, 1 day a week do absolutely nothing.

Take as many practice exams as possible. YOU MUST go over them after you are done and see exactly why you missed each question. This will be how you improve your technique. On average, it should take you 3-5 hours to re-view/go over a given full length exam.

Good luck, PM me with questions.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

Oh, and I DO know someone that DID get into a Texas Medical School with a 16. BELIEVE ME, I couldn't believe at first, but she did. A good school at that too. But to me these cases are all about who you know! Usually daddy and mommie took care of that!

Also, bro, I do research at a TX medical school, so alot of my good friends are Doctors and medical students. One of my best friends who TORE UP the MCAT did not do so well on the USMLE, he's now in internal medicine, which I love. HIS WIFE on the other hand STRUGGLED with the MCAT, took it multiple times, and guess what?? SHE TORE up the USMLE and is now a RADIOLOGY resident! The MCAT and COMLEX/USMLE are two completely different types of test. The bottom line is, once we all start school, MCAT, undergrad GPA disappears, we all start from the beginning. The ones that do well are those that have disipline and are not distracted. Of course being a freaking genius helps... anyways.... how you do in your undergrad and MCAT doesn't predict it all!

All you are doing is providing anecdotal evidence about 2 people that took the MCAT / boards. While there is not a 100% connection, there is at least some correlation to MCAT / boards, even in the article you cited. There are also stats for people that get into medical schools every year with sub 20's (can't find it right now, but when I do i will post it..think it was like 60 for the allo), but a large majority of these people were not US MD programs. Anyhow, you obviously don't have a strong grasp on the application process, stop telling the OP that the 22 will be fine...it could be why would you want to take that chance as a re applicant. I would encourage her to do better, and they will be fine.

 

[WALKE219]

Again, I wasn't telling the OP to NOT retake the MCAT and give up... What I was saying is that retaking the MCAT 6 months from now will probably be worthless. Especially when they are considering retaking courses and working as well. Obviously a lot has to change in the study habits or design, and this isn't going to happen over night. Rather than tell an applicant to go ahead and try again 6 months from now to rush out an application when he/she has gotten a 22 twice is pointless. I don't care how many people you "know" with 16 or 19 MCATS getting into school.

In reality, it is the BEST idea, if they really want medicine to take a whole year off and study. Start studying now, take a spring administration next year after constant studying then apply for the next year. A year off is not the end of the world at all, in fact, a lot of people enjoy it. A year off will allow a lot of studying. With a 22, there is something very wrong. Last testing administration, a 22 meant that 89 - 93 percent of people scored better than you. This indicated a lack of understanding in some pretty key areas. Study an hour or more a day until next spring and kill the MCAT. It is a MUCH better idea than rushing into it again simply to apply for this year. You take it again rushed, score poorly again, and then you have to go through all the hoops of getting permission to take the MCAT a fourth time, and that WONT look good at all to medical schools.

Instatewaiter - I doubt very seriously that one would get any residency invited with a 185. This is the lowest score you can get passing, roughly a 60%. A 22 on the MCAT is MUCH worse than a 60% if that stat was given. For you to say you can't get surgery and all that because they are nearly impossible is false as well. Of course it is impossible with a 185 on you step 1, but getting such residencies is hardly impossible for a well qualified candidate.


BTW OP - One study saying there isn't a correlation doesn't make it gospel. I think you will find far more studies suggesting there is a link than ones saying there isn't. Studies like this feed people's dreams suggesting that they will be fine. Be realistic, take the year off, study your ass off and improve. I know you say you are busy now and whatnot, but your life is not going to be any less chaotic in medical school, and the boards are more involved than the MCAT. PLUS - you really only get a month off from intense classes at most schools to study for the boards, while you are studying for the MCAT during undergrad .

I think the concensus is that once you are over a 26 on the MCAT, there is very little to suggest that a higher score means a higher board score. HOWEVER, scores under 26 are statistically sound showing that people have more difficulty passing the boards.

Remember - out of all the people who take the USMLE (mind you, the people who get into allo programs, who have a mean MCAT of 31) 91% pass.... this means out of people who averaged a 31 on their MCAT 9% still failed.... You don't want to be in that group.