recognizing a patient in security footage on Facebook

[CetiAlphaFive]

If one of your patients got caught on a security camera robbing a business, that business posts it on facebook, and you just happen to see their big dumb face clear as day, what would you do?

Asking for a friend.
A friend who totally isn't me.

I didn't sue ACPE.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Sparda29]

I think it would be ok to go to the police, right?

Snitches get stitches.

 

[StallionRx]

Some police departments have anonymous tip lines.

 

[ldiot]

**** em just do an anonymous tip before they rob you

 

[sosoo]

this should not be a difficult decision to make for someone whose morals and ethics are unwavering. only a person whose morals have decline would turn a blind eye and let the business owner falter.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

this should not be a difficult decision to make for someone whose morals and ethics are unwavering. only a person whose morals have decline would turn a blind eye and let the business owner falter.

I have a link for you:

http://bfy.tw/5tqt

 

[spacecowgirl]

Is their identity PHI?

 

[Niosh]

Is their identity PHI?

I like to think no, because anyone can see you walk into the pharmacy/hospital/clinic from the public. But then again I'm not the one facing the $250,000 fine or whatever it is. And I know every place that I've worked has said anything at all is PHI.

 

[Claydoe]

**** i owe like 2 mil then from saying hi to patients at wawa

 

[owlegrad]

Isn't law enforcement exempt from HIPAA anyway?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Isn't law enforcement exempt from HIPAA anyway?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

Only in the investigation of a violent crime.

45CFR § 164.512 (f ) (3)

EDIT:

You are partially correct in that there is much more leeway for giving PHI to law enforcement if the crime / individual being reported occurred on the "premises of the covered entity"

Is their identity PHI?

The law actually explicitly addresses which pieces of PHI may be disclosed to LEOs.

 

[ldiot]

I have a link for you:

http://bfy.tw/5tqt

Wait are you actually being serious? You saying not to report because of HIPPA? Lol?

Well an anonymous tip solves this anyways. Or just have your friend call it it or something. Who honestly cares. What if instead of robbing another store they rob your pharmacy... would you still be prevented from giving the police their name when they come in? I'm actually curious what the difference is between the two situations is because you'd obviously give the police a name if it was your pharmacy being robbed.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Wait are you actually being serious? You saying not to report because of HIPPA? Lol?

Well an anonymous tip solves this anyways. Or just have your friend call it it or something. Who honestly cares. What if instead of robbing another store they rob your pharmacy... would you still be prevented from giving the police their name when they come in? I'm actually curious what the difference is between the two situations is because you'd obviously give the police a name if it was your pharmacy being robbed.

I have a link for you:

eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

 

[WheezyBaby]

Only in the investigation of a violent crime.

45CFR § 164.512 (f ) (3)

EDIT:

You are partially correct in that there is much more leeway for giving PHI to law enforcement if the crime / individual being reported occurred on the "premises of the covered entity"




The law actually explicitly addresses which pieces of PHI may be disclosed to LEOs.

Isn't robbery a violent crime?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Isn't robbery a violent crime?

Whoops, you're absolutely right.

The OP should've read "Burglarizing a business after hours"

 

[ldiot]

I don't have time to read all that, I'm sorry lol

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Wait are you actually being serious? You saying not to report because of HIPPA? Lol?

Well an anonymous tip solves this anyways. Or just have your friend call it it or something. Who honestly cares. What if instead of robbing another store they rob your pharmacy... would you still be prevented from giving the police their name when they come in? I'm actually curious what the difference is between the two situations is because you'd obviously give the police a name if it was your pharmacy being robbed.

I'll answer your question since you can't be bothered to actually know the law or read it.

Yes, I'm serious.
Here's why: let's say patient gets charged. Somehow it comes out that I was the one who voluntarily gave them up.
Nothing in the known universe would prevent them from suing.
Even if they have no case, I'm going to spend a lot on attorney's fees.

Here's a life tip:
Nothing is anonymous.
You're not using TOR.
Believe it or not, the average department probably know how to look up their phone records to document the number that informed them.
The perp's attorney can easily then FOIA that number.

As to your other brilliant argument, I give less of a crap about being burglarized than I do about being sued.
Form 106 really isn't that hard to fill out.

Here's the difference between the two situations:
If you knew the law or even read the thread you'd know that yes, yes indeed, I'd be able to provide the detective handling the case the name of the patient if our pharmacy was burglarized.

If someone came in and attempted an armed robbery, I'd run away and then give the cops their PHI.

I wish I could stamp your forehead with "please spell things out to me" to make the lives of everyone you interact with a bit easier. LOL

 

[ldiot]

I'll answer your question since you can't be bothered to actually know the law or read it.

Yes, I'm serious.
Here's why: let's say patient gets charged. Somehow it comes out that I was the one who voluntarily gave them up.
Nothing in the known universe would prevent them from suing.
Even if they have no case, I'm going to spend a lot on attorney's fees.

Here's a life tip:
Nothing is anonymous.
You're not using TOR.
Believe it or not, the average department probably know how to look up their phone records to document the number that informed them.
The perp's attorney can easily then FOIA that number.

As to your other brilliant argument, I give less of a crap about being burglarized than I do about being sued.
Form 106 really isn't that hard to fill out.

Here's the difference between the two situations:
If you knew the law or even read the thread you'd know that yes, yes indeed, I'd be able to provide the detective handling the case the name of the patient if our pharmacy was burglarized.

If someone came in and attempted an armed robbery, I'd run away and then give the cops their PHI.

I wish I could stamp your forehead with "please spell things out to me" to make the lives of everyone you interact with a bit easier. LOL

I didn't mean for you to get upset. Also individuals are not allowed to sue for HIPPA violations. I have no doubt that your identity can be found by calling an anonymous tip line, but it's not like they are investigating a murder case here. We are talking about a local police station, I doubt they are losing sleep over this case. If you are really that worried just have someone else call it in, or sit on your hands. I really don't care, you're the one who asked for opinions. I think you're paranoid if you want to know the truth.

 

[zelman]

Just reporting to the police that you know the identity of someone in security footage isn't disclosing PHI. If you told them how you knew them, an argument could be made. But if you just tell the police "That guy is John Doe" and nothing else, I don't see how you could have done anything wrong.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I didn't mean for you to get upset. Also individuals are not allowed to sue for HIPPA violations. I have no doubt that your identity can be found by calling an anonymous tip line, but it's not like they are investigating a murder case here. We are talking about a local police station, I doubt they are losing sleep over this case. If you are really that worried just have someone else call it in, or sit on your hands. I really don't care, you're the one who asked for opinions. I think you're paranoid if you want to know the truth.

#REKT

 

[owlegrad]

While I agree that individuals are not allowed to sue for HIPPA violations, what about HIPAA? Is it just large fines rather than large lawsuits? Seems like semantics to me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[HouTX]

how is disclosing their name a HIPAA violation? overzealous *****s

that's like us calling prescribing MD for BMI on a phentermine script. the idiot MA spouted that was a HIPAA violation when my technicians inquired about the info. I ripped the MA a new one. they were using HIPAA as a cover because the MD didn't like that i was questioning her clinical judgement. sorry doc, if i'm consistently seeing patients with BMI of 23-28 with no other risk factors being prescribed phentermine. better believe i'm calling on EVERY script.

 

[ldiot]

While I agree that individuals are not allowed to sue for HIPPA violations, what about HIPAA? Is it just large fines rather than large lawsuits? Seems like semantics to me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

Everyone's a comedian I see...

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

how is disclosing their name a HIPAA violation? overzealous *****s

that's like us calling prescribing MD for BMI on a phentermine script. the idiot MA spouted that was a HIPAA violation when my technicians inquired about the info. I ripped the MA a new one. they were using HIPAA as a cover because the MD didn't like that i was questioning her clinical judgement. sorry doc, if i'm consistently seeing patients with BMI of 23-28 with no other risk factors being prescribed phentermine. better believe i'm calling on EVERY script.

(2) Permitted disclosures: Limited information for identification and location purposes. Except for disclosures required by law as permitted by paragraph (f)(1) of this section, a covered entity may disclose protected health information in response to a law enforcement official's request for such information for the purpose of identifying or locating a suspect, fugitive, material witness, or missing person, provided that:

(i) The covered entity may disclose only the following information:

(A) Name and address;

Gah. You must be right. They must not have meant Name and address when they wrote Name and address in the Privacy Rules section of HIPAA in 1996.


EDIT: Does this mean I can give the cops her BMI because BMI isn't PHI?

 

[Sparda29]

Everyone here arguing about whether disclosing it would be a HIPAA violation.

Don't snitch.

 

[owlegrad]

Gah. You must be right. They must not have meant Name and address when they wrote Name and address in the Privacy Rules section of HIPAA in 1996.


EDIT: Does this mean I can give the cops her BMI because BMI isn't PHI?

Interestingly enough it seems like the request has to come from law enforcement rather than you volunteering the information. I wonder if the generic "if anyone has any information please call" would cover that?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[BMBiology]

Everyone here arguing about whether disclosing it would be a HIPAA violation.

Don't snitch.

You are not a gangster. Their rules do not apply to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You are not a gangster. Their rules do not apply to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Wwoooowww.
"gangster" "Their rules"

I know Trump got elected, but please check your privilege and don't use such offensive language.

 

[Sparda29]

You are not a gangster. Their rules do not apply to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

What possible benefit is there to the original poster in snitching? Is there a monetary reward that no one has mentioned?
There are risks to snitching. You might end up having to go down to the station to make a police report. You might end up having to ID them out of a lineup. You might end up being called to the stand as a witness. Don't do it.

 

[Amicable Angora]

You are not a gangster. Their rules do not apply to you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

How do you know he's not a gangster?

 

[npage148]

Just call in an anonymous tip from a pay phone. At best they arrested the guy and at worst they ignore you but at least you did your civil duty.

 

[BMBiology]

Wwoooowww.
"gangster" "Their rules"

I know Trump got elected, but please check your privilege and don't use such offensive language.

What are you...a wuss? Are you THAT scared?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Corpseman]

Gawd, I cant believe some of the replies in this thread. Unless you call the police and say, "yep, that's John Doe! He comes into my pharmacy... you know the one at this specific address to pick up his medications" it cannot be would never be seen as a violation unless you are extremely paranoid.

 

[Abby Atwood]

how is disclosing their name a HIPAA violation? overzealous *****s

that's like us calling prescribing MD for BMI on a phentermine script. the idiot MA spouted that was a HIPAA violation when my technicians inquired about the info. I ripped the MA a new one. they were using HIPAA as a cover because the MD didn't like that i was questioning her clinical judgement. sorry doc, if i'm consistently seeing patients with BMI of 23-28 with no other risk factors being prescribed phentermine. better believe i'm calling on EVERY script.

That's different though. You are asking for information required for patient care. That information is HIPAA exempt as it is information necessary for Treatment, Payment, and Health Care Operations

 

[HouTX]

That's different though. You are asking for information required for patient care. That information is HIPAA exempt as it is information necessary for Treatment, Payment, and Health Care Operations

please see the sentence beginning with "the idiot MA"

 

[Abby Atwood]

please see the sentence beginning with "the idiot MA"

Totally agree that they were wrong. I just don't think your situation is the same as what was being described. I honestly don't know what recourse someone has in the situation described by the original poster, but the information being discussed isn't information required for patient care.

 

[zelman]

What possible benefit is there to the original poster in snitching? Is there a monetary reward that no one has mentioned?
There are risks to snitching. You might end up having to go down to the station to make a police report. You might end up having to ID them out of a lineup. You might end up being called to the stand as a witness. Don't do it.

The benefit is that the next business they rob won't be your pharmacy.


And they won't have to do any of that if the video is clearly them. The video is the witness. You just let the police know which door to knock on.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Gawd, I cant believe some of the replies in this thread. Unless you call the police and say, "yep, that's John Doe! He comes into my pharmacy... you know the one at this specific address to pick up his medications" it cannot be would never be seen as a violation unless you are extremely paranoid.

This...

/thread

 

[rph3664]

Gawd, I cant believe some of the replies in this thread. Unless you call the police and say, "yep, that's John Doe! He comes into my pharmacy... you know the one at this specific address to pick up his medications" it cannot be would never be seen as a violation unless you are extremely paranoid.

"And he's HIV positive and takes Viagra!"



Calling in an anonymous tip is not a HIPAA violation.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

OK let's have a heart to heart pow wow for a second.

If you're a pharmacist, you're a covered entity hcp.
If you have access to someone's PHI, you're responsible for it.

You don't stop being a covered entity if you're at a payphone, submitting an anonymous tip, or wearing a disguise.

What I think a lot of you are meaning to say is, "you'll never ever get caught, ever, so I don't think it counts"
The guidelines for releasing PHI to law enforcement officials has already been posted and summarized.

If you're saying, "it's not a HIPAA violation" when you really mean "it's not a problem because you won't face any negative repercussions", then we're all learning a little something about your integrity as a professional.

 

[zelman]

OK let's have a heart to heart pow wow for a second.

If you're a pharmacist, you're a covered entity hcp.
If you have access to someone's PHI, you're responsible for it.

You don't stop being a covered entity if you're at a payphone, submitting an anonymous tip, or wearing a disguise.

What I think a lot of you are meaning to say is, "you'll never ever get caught, ever, so I don't think it counts"
The guidelines for releasing PHI to law enforcement officials has already been posted and summarized.

If you're saying, "it's not a HIPAA violation" when you really mean "it's not a problem because you won't face any negative repercussions", then we're all learning a little something about your integrity as a professional.

It's not a HIPAA violation. The name of the individual is only PHI if it is disclosed as being associated with healthcare. As I said before, their name alone is fine to disclose in this circumstance as long as you do not disclose how you came to know it. Example here: Q&A: What information needs to be compromised to constitute a HIPAA breach? - www.hcpro.com

 

[lord999]

I like to think no, because anyone can see you walk into the pharmacy/hospital/clinic from the public. But then again I'm not the one facing the $250,000 fine or whatever it is. And I know every place that I've worked has said anything at all is PHI.

505-When does the Privacy Rule allow covered entities to disclose information to law enforcement

Having experienced this the hard way in VA (fugitive felon program and suspected death as Mr. John Doe ALWAYS comes in every Monday for his warfarin yet missed the last two weeks), HIPAA provides for a specific exception for disclosure to identifying suspects to law enforcement. It's limited to what is needed to find the person.

Most states, including CA have a specific disclosure provision for law enforcement that preempts HIPAA in this situation.

 

[quickpic007]

If one of your patients got caught on a security camera robbing a business, that business posts it on facebook, and you just happen to see their big dumb face clear as day, what would you do?

Asking for a friend.
A friend who totally isn't me.

I didn't sue ACPE.

What did your friend end up doing?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

What did your friend end up doing?

They came in to rob the pharmacy, so he put on his American flag pants, broke their wrists, and walked away.

 

[BenJammin]

It's not PHI because you're not reporting the information in a professional capacity. If I said "I just watched your security footage and I recognize the suspect as owlegrad", what PHI did I release?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

It's not PHI because you're not reporting the information in a professional capacity. If I said "I just watched your security footage and I recognize the suspect as owlegrad", what PHI did I release?

 

[owlegrad]

Wait a second, when did I become the person that was recognized? That drastically alters my answer...

 

[BenJammin]

Wait a second, when did I become the person that was recognized? That drastically alters my answer...

You're busted, buddy.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

It's not PHI because you're not reporting the information in a professional capacity. If I said "I just watched your security footage and I recognize the suspect as owlegrad", what PHI did I release?

I think the whole "Illegal things aren't illegal if no one catches them being illegal" argument has been covered sufficiently.

 

[owlegrad]

I think the whole "Illegal things aren't illegal if no one catches them being illegal" argument has been covered sufficiently.

I think the argument is, "illegal things aren't illegal if they aren't illegal". How is saying you recognise someone breaching PHI? Do you know what PHI is?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile