redo basic sciences or upper division?

[aimsz88]

hi,


i did my undergrad at usc in cello performance, probably will graduate from there with a degree in humanities and music...gpa 3.0. yeah, it sucks. i also took alot of pre med classes....all except for physics and also blew them down the drain too. i was really ambitious, trying to take my 11 music required classes per semester and study for ochem at the same time. not the smartest choice.

anyways, things are better now...im at ucla's extension night program...they have a certificate program which is essentially a less formal post bacc. of course my grades are stellar now, im doing full time medical academic research, blah blah....i got my act together.

now i've been asking pre med advisors whether i should retake my basic sciences or to seek my grades through upper division classes. i'm getting conflicting advice. what do you guys think? the only reason as of now i'm leaning towards retaking them...is because if you look at secondary applications, practically all of them has a first page where you enter your basic science grades. mine of which aren't great. i'd almost rather replace them, rather than have to explain them away.

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[Captain Fantastic]

Why not make a list of the medical schools you want to go attend, call their admissions offices, and ask what they'd prefer.

I'm retaking the pre-reqs since I haven't had them in 8-9 years. It'd take me a couple of semesters to "refresh" my memory well enough for the MCAT anyway, so why not get the GPA boost while I'm at it (granted I score better this time than I did 8-9 years ago). Plus it's been long enough that I don't think I'd perform very well in upper-level courses if I jumped into them at this point.

 

[njbmd]

hi,


i did my undergrad at usc in cello performance, probably will graduate from there with a degree in humanities and music...gpa 3.0. yeah, it sucks. i also took alot of pre med classes....all except for physics and also blew them down the drain too. i was really ambitious, trying to take my 11 music required classes per semester and study for ochem at the same time. not the smartest choice.

anyways, things are better now...im at ucla's extension night program...they have a certificate program which is essentially a less formal post bacc. of course my grades are stellar now, im doing full time medical academic research, blah blah....i got my act together.

now i've been asking pre med advisors whether i should retake my basic sciences or to seek my grades through upper division classes. i'm getting conflicting advice. what do you guys think? the only reason as of now i'm leaning towards retaking them...is because if you look at secondary applications, practically all of them has a first page where you enter your basic science grades. mine of which aren't great. i'd almost rather replace them, rather than have to explain them away.

Hi there,
If your coursework is old (more than five years) re-take those classes. Things have changed and odds are, you need refreshing before you take the MCAT. You can still take an upper division course like Human Physiology or Cell Biology but there has been lots of new info in Biology and Chemistry,

njbmd

 

[aimsz88]

hi guys,

thanks for your replies. i am going to retake them...it's been about 4 years. i'm still taking the MCAT on saturday, but i think retaking them for better grades is a good way to go. i'll still probably take higher level classes after that though.

what do you think?

 

[Sundarban1]

Great. Just remember that the classes you re-take get averaged in with the origional grades on your application for allopathic schools. So you still have to list the old grades on your application, if thats what you were worried about.
Good luck.

 

[jintonic5]

i'm in a funky situation...

i started college in 99, went in as premed... so my chem grades are over 5 years old... was unsure about pre-med for the following 6 years...but finished all the classes (b's and c's) which brings me to today, and i'm prepping for the mcat, having finally decided to gun for med school. i'm doing really well on my practice tests (32+, 10+ on each subject), and feel that redoing pre-reqs at this point would be dumb, especially since i'm doing well with the mcat. i plan on taking upper level sciences and pursue a masters before i go to med school...

so my question is: i shouldn't have to worry about retaking pre-reqs right? if you think i should retake, please let me know what your reasoning is. thanks!

 

[mshheaddoc]

i'm in a funky situation...

i started college in 99, went in as premed... so my chem grades are over 5 years old... was unsure about pre-med for the following 6 years...but finished all the classes (b's and c's) which brings me to today, and i'm prepping for the mcat, having finally decided to gun for med school. i'm doing really well on my practice tests (32+, 10+ on each subject), and feel that redoing pre-reqs at this point would be dumb, especially since i'm doing well with the mcat. i plan on taking upper level sciences and pursue a masters before i go to med school...

so my question is: i shouldn't have to worry about retaking pre-reqs right? if you think i should retake, please let me know what your reasoning is. thanks!

If you score that well on the MCAT, don't worry about prereqs. Do upper levels. Just what I would do. I took Gen chem 8 years ago, not retaking. Just retaking ochem, and then taking bio/physics.

 

[aimsz88]

hi again,


yeah, i really considered just taking upper level courses...and i probably still will. however, although i know it's a very artificial reason...when you look at most secondary applications...the very FIRST page is this grid where you enter your basic chem, basic bio, basic physics, etc. and your grades for JUST those classes. chances are, adcoms didnt even look THAT closely in the first place at my primaries, they're going to send me a secondary so i can waste my money (or sometimes not) and look at you closer from there.

i figure, it almost will be meaningless that my AMCA undergrad sciences gpa will be boosted...i'll get screwed in the secondaries by not being able to say i aced those.

anybody think im just crazy? even if you have perfect post bacc or masters scores, those nasty bad basic sciences if you got Bs and Cs are going to haunt you forever!

 

[EFesta77]

hi again,


yeah, i really considered just taking upper level courses...and i probably still will. however, although i know it's a very artificial reason...when you look at most secondary applications...the very FIRST page is this grid where you enter your basic chem, basic bio, basic physics, etc. and your grades for JUST those classes. chances are, adcoms didnt even look THAT closely in the first place at my primaries, they're going to send me a secondary so i can waste my money (or sometimes not) and look at you closer from there.

i figure, it almost will be meaningless that my AMCA undergrad sciences gpa will be boosted...i'll get screwed in the secondaries by not being able to say i aced those.

anybody think im just crazy? even if you have perfect post bacc or masters scores, those nasty bad basic sciences if you got Bs and Cs are going to haunt you forever!

I see your point. I am in the same situation. My bio and inorganic chem grades from 9 years ago are not great (C and C+ in bio 101 and 102, respectively). I entered a post-bac program in January and have scored A's in physics 1 and Orgo 1/2. All that remains is the MCAT and physics 2. My overall GPA is fine (3.6), but my science GPA is probably 3.2. I have grad degree in neuroscience with plenty of publications, etc. I mean, I have proven I am capable of science coursework, but that front page of my secondaries will have those terrible grades in bio and chem. I'm thinking top schools wont really consider meb/c the 1st thing they do to screen applicants is look at the science GPA. Is there any truth to this?

I am pondering redoing Bio this coming semester. I dont know. Any thoughts?'

 

[Dr brain doc]

Hey guys,

I understand your situation all too well. I am a Neuroscience grad hoping to graduate at the latest by June 2007. I have just (meaning this past Sunday) begun studying my old Physics for the MCAT and I feel pretty hopeless. I thought that I could work in the lab during the day and use my evenings and Sundays to study Physics, Chem, etc. But I started with my most difficult subject (Physics), and I think I need A LOT more help. Is it crazy to plan on taking the MCAT next April, or would it be more realistic to plan on entering Med school August 2008? I feel the same time constraints...I'm 25, female and I want to have kids at some point, but I have waited so long to realize this dream that I will do whatever it takes to get there and family will fit in somewhere along the way.

Another question: Would it look deficient on a Med school app for a Neuroscience doctoral student to do a post-bacc program? I haven't intensively researched this option, but i'm hoping that those of you who are currently enrolled in such a program could tell me how it would affect our applications.

 

[aimsz88]

hi efesta77,


so you know what i'm talking about then. see what i mean? we're totally capable and went above and beyond, but we're totally going to get screwed once we fill out a secondary. they take a look at the first page and bam! (for those who don't know what i'm referring to, i posted about it about two posts above this) and its not that i want to be lazy about, i want to be smart about it.

hi dr brain doc, your questions seem like two separate questions; the first one better answered in the mcat forum, and you could probably start a second post on your own in this area with your second question.

 

[SailCrazy]

Great. Just remember that the classes you re-take get averaged in with the origional grades on your application for allopathic schools. So you still have to list the old grades on your application, if thats what you were worried about.
Good luck.

Just a friendly reminder. AMCAS noes not average your classes. Both of them count.

An example: You take 3-credit BIO 101 and get a C. Later, you re-take 3-credit BIO 101 and get an A. You do NOT receive an "averaged" 3-credit B for AMCAS. You receive a C and an A. If you need to think of ti as an average then it is a 6-credit B.

 

[SailCrazy]

...that front page of my secondaries will have those terrible grades in bio and chem...

What front page of which secondaries?

I have had a few secondaries that asked me to fill out which classes meet the pre-reqs, but none of them included grades. None of the rest of the schools have given me any indication of what is on the "front page" of my app. I just wrote the essays, and submitted.

Am I missing something?

 

[SailCrazy]

I forgot to add that retaking is a big bonus for DO, as AACOMAS take the grade from the last time you repeated a class and drops the others.

Just a friendly reminder. AMCAS noes not average your classes. Both of them count.

An example: You take 3-credit BIO 101 and get a C. Later, you re-take 3-credit BIO 101 and get an A. You do NOT receive an "averaged" 3-credit B for AMCAS. You receive a C and an A. If you need to think of ti as an average then it is a 6-credit B.

 

[Scottish Chap]

hi,


i did my undergrad at usc in cello performance, probably will graduate from there with a degree in humanities and music...gpa 3.0. yeah, it sucks. i also took alot of pre med classes....all except for physics and also blew them down the drain too. i was really ambitious, trying to take my 11 music required classes per semester and study for ochem at the same time. not the smartest choice.

anyways, things are better now...im at ucla's extension night program...they have a certificate program which is essentially a less formal post bacc. of course my grades are stellar now, im doing full time medical academic research, blah blah....i got my act together.

now i've been asking pre med advisors whether i should retake my basic sciences or to seek my grades through upper division classes. i'm getting conflicting advice. what do you guys think? the only reason as of now i'm leaning towards retaking them...is because if you look at secondary applications, practically all of them has a first page where you enter your basic science grades. mine of which aren't great. i'd almost rather replace them, rather than have to explain them away.

I always feel it's better to prove yourself in new classes, perhaps at the graduate level....but that's assuming the undergraduate major was biological sciences. In your case, you'll have to take the premed classes that you did not do first-time round. Also, keep in mind that almost all medical school will REQUIRE grades C and above in the core classes (chemistry, biology, physics, organic chemistry), but they’re generally looking for >B’s. Only retake classes if you genuinely think you can't remember well enough for the MCAT or if your grades are REALLY bad in the core prerequisites.

Speaking as someone who was not 'premed' and as someone who took the MCAT ten years after undergraduate classes, if your grades were okay first-time around, it's nothing that an MCAT prep. course or dedicated independent review will not solve. For MCAT purposes, nothing has changed for physics, chemistry, and organic chemistry. Perhaps the biggest change is on the biology section, where more molecular biology and genetics seems to be tested these days. Knowing up-to-date information such as PCR, manipulation of DNA etc. is important but, that said, the MCAT is still more of a reading comprehension test and much of the information is implied in the passages. If you forget everything I’ve rambled above, remember this: don’t give up if this is what you really want to do. You’ll get in somewhere if you are dedicated and persistent. Good luck

 

[blessed1]

I always feel it's better to prove yourself in new classes, perhaps at the graduate level....but that's assuming the undergraduate major was biological sciences.

This has been my reasoning as I was an undergrad Biology major who graduated 10yrs ago with mediocre grades in the pre-reqs (Bs, Cs). I repeated Organic Chem recently b/c I earned a big fat D the first time and have since earned As in that course. I personally think I would benefit from taking additional upper level science courses and doing well on the MCAT (with some type of MCAT prep).

Again, that's my path and one size doesn't always fit all.

 

[EFesta77]

What front page of which secondaries?

I have had a few secondaries that asked me to fill out which classes meet the pre-reqs, but none of them included grades. None of the rest of the schools have given me any indication of what is on the "front page" of my app. I just wrote the essays, and submitted.

Am I missing something?

Maybe I am the one missing something. I have looked at a few secondary apps and I saw that the grades had to be entered on a grid on the 1st page. Maybe the majority are not like that. If not, great! In any case, I'm worrying more about my science GPA. I suppose taking more upper level courses might be a better idea than retaking bio 101 if I am just looking to up my GPA.

The other question I had was if anyone knew about grad schools grades....I heard they calculate a separate graduate science and non-science GPA for grad course. Is this true? I couldnt find an answer when I did a quick search.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

The other question I had was if anyone knew about grad schools grades....I heard they calculate a separate graduate science and non-science GPA for grad course. Is this true? I couldnt find an answer when I did a quick search.

Yup. Separate calculations for grad/undergrad. Here's the AMCAS grade conversion guide: http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/conversionguide2006.pdf

 

[EFesta77]

Yup. Separate calculations for grad/undergrad. Here's the AMCAS grade conversion guide: http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/conversionguide2006.pdf

Thanks ed