Reflections/thoughts on the admissions game

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get ready for a long year
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This is especially true for the crowd of us waiting until April or later for our acceptances. Your waiting time can sometimes be determined by luck. Do your acceptances come from schools that take a huge portion of class from the waitlist? Do your acceptances come from schools that process applications and make decisions quickly? Also, high stats and average ECs appears to be a formula for getting waitlisted. I've seen it happen with several SDNers, so if you fit the profile, be prepared to wait for months.

I've had multiple offers now, but didn't get any until April. I was having serious doubts about getting in anywhere for months and months. Getting accepted in October / November would have made the whole application process 10x less stressful. 6 months of not knowing which school you will attend is not the same as 6 months of agonizing over whether you will have to reapply. For those who are accepted in October / November, celebrate, and appreciate the pain and stress you have avoided.
 
bleargh said:
i call complete bull**** on this anti-midwest nonsense. could it just be that east coast schools simply get more applications due to more people wanting to be/stay there? take for example, columbia vs. michigan, both currently ranked 10 by USNEWS. according to my msar columbia had 7k applications to michigan's 5k. similarly, the medical college of wisconsin (which i believe is private) and temple are ranked at 45. one got 6400 applicants, the other 9000. i'll let you guess which was which.
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I don't think it has much to do with rankings; it has to do with fit. Some people have been referring to MCW as University of California Medical College in Wisconsin for years. (At times a third of the class comes from Calif). They like California students and the school feels they are likely to matriculate. There is a mutual "fit" there.
 
NickNaylor said:
You can usually tell pretty quickly in the interview whether or not your interviewer has read your file closely. Adjust accordingly.
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Big tipoff: the interviewer takes long pauses to actively read and scan your application during the interview. :laugh:

tr0gd0r said:
I think the point was just that the personal statement has to be awesome (well-and-clearly-written, engaging story), not necessarily over-the-top...especially if you have lower numbers.
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I agree with that. But using hyperbolic language like "needs to be ON FIRE" does not fit with that sentiment.

BrainBuff said:
1. Your personal statement needs to be ON FIRE.

Very much true. During my interviews I was told by several adcoms that they were looking forward to meet me in person because of my personal statement. One of them suggested that I should have it published. It clearly got me noticed.
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Again, I'd just be careful about extrapolating from your experience to make a blanket "this is true" statement. Not everyone has the writing skills to create literary masterpieces or has the life experience to write about that would make having those skills relatively moot.
 
BrainBuff said:
I don't think it has much to do with rankings; it has to do with fit. Some people have been referring to MCW as University of California Medical College in Wisconsin for years. (At times a third of the class comes from Calif). They like California students and the school feels they are likely to matriculate. There is a mutual "fit" there.
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I think it must have something to do with cows.
 
mauberley said:
Big tipoff: the interviewer takes long pauses to actively read and scan your application during the interview. :laugh:
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i had one interviewer who sat there and read my application during the interview ...at times reading my LORs to me out loud ...to say the least it did not make a good impression
 
NickNaylor said:
Don’t rush any part of the application. Contrary to most SDN advice, you don’t need to submit the application on June 1st or… gasp… June 2nd. While the time to get verified does get much longer pretty quickly, you probably won’t be receiving any secondaries until mid-to-late July anyway (unless AMCAS and schools change how they do things significantly). Don’t compromise the integrity of your application for the sake of submitting on the first day possible.
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Truth. I should have included my spring grades on my transcript too, because they were good grades. I rushed my AMCAS out there and missed out on a GPA boost.

Guys, make sure you have a decent suit. Buy one if you need to. Don’t wear a suit that doesn’t fit you well or isn’t flattering. I’d recommend taking a look at the interview clothing thread for a whole bunch of pictures and commentary. While a suit won’t get you accepted or rejected, you need to look PROFESSIONAL. Your personal appearance comprises a significant portion of what an interviewer will think about you when he/she first sees you.
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Besides, there's no "M1 fifteen" weight gain, so you can just use it again for your residency interviews. I did.



I agree with most of the rest of what you said too.
 
NickNaylor said:
You can usually tell pretty quickly in the interview whether or not your interviewer has read your file closely. Adjust accordingly.
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But don't necessarily blame them. Some of them might have gotten handed your file about 10 minutes before you walked in. Or they were late. I conducted one interview while in scrubs (they asked us to wear a shirt and tie) because I had to bolt over to the school after it took a lot longer than I thought to disentangle myself from the rotation I was on.
 
Why would those with high stats and average ECs tend to get waitlisted?

EpicBearMan said:
This is especially true for the crowd of us waiting until April or later for our acceptances. Your waiting time can sometimes be determined by luck. Do your acceptances come from schools that take a huge portion of class from the waitlist? Do your acceptances come from schools that process applications and make decisions quickly? Also, high stats and average ECs appears to be a formula for getting waitlisted. I've seen it happen with several SDNers, so if you fit the profile, be prepared to wait for months.

I've had multiple offers now, but didn't get any until April. I was having serious doubts about getting in anywhere for months and months. Getting accepted in October / November would have made the whole application process 10x less stressful. 6 months of not knowing which school you will attend is not the same as 6 months of agonizing over whether you will have to reapply. For those who are accepted in October / November, celebrate, and appreciate the pain and stress you have avoided.
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TheProwler said:
Truth. I should have included my spring grades on my transcript too, because they were good grades. I rushed my AMCAS out there and missed out on a GPA boost.


Besides, there's no "M1 fifteen" weight gain, so you can just use it again for your residency interviews. I did.



I agree with most of the rest of what you said too.
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I bought a really good suit for my med school interviews. I lost 5 pounds during med school and wore the same suit for 15 residency interviews and the suit still looked good and so did I. I will put the suit in my closet and wear it again during residency, if ever required.

I will probably buy a new suit when I finish residency in five years.
 
dreamer67 said:
Why would those with high stats and average ECs tend to get waitlisted?
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I don't necessarily have a good explanation, but I've seen it happen quite a bit. My opinion: stats get enough attention for an interviews at schools with averages in your range, but mediocre "cookie-cutter" ECs don't cause enough interest for outright acceptance. It can put you in an awkward zone when you have stats that are more competitive than the rest of your resume. From my experience, getting an interview seems to be more likely at schools that have a "Lizzy M score" fit than at schools with avg stats much higher or lower than your own.

Don't take much out of this, just a little bit of a trend I've noticed.
 
EpicBearMan said:
I don't necessarily have a good explanation, but I've seen it happen quite a bit. My opinion: stats get enough attention for an interviews at schools with averages in your range, but mediocre "cookie-cutter" ECs don't cause enough interest for outright acceptance. It can put you in an awkward zone when you have stats that are more competitive than the rest of your resume. From my experience, getting an interview seems to be more likely at schools that have a "Lizzy M score" fit than at schools with avg stats much higher or lower than your own.

Don't take much out of this, just a little bit of a trend I've noticed.
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Same experience here..
 
getright said:
Assuming that you're planning on applying after your junior year, you would be fine if you take it during the summer after your sophomore year. Getting it out of the way early would also make the application process much less stressful.
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Yeah I was thinking that too, however if I do it a year in advance will it still be acceptable to use for all schools? or will they have a problem that I have taken it prior to my junior year?
 
I can't tell you how many crappy tie knots I saw on the interview trail. Huge nasty loose tie knots, ugly ties, ties too long or too short. Just google "how to tie a tie" and try it a few times in front of the mirror.

While we're talking appearances, so many dudes need to learn how to shave! Shave the night before or morning of, and shave right! Use a new blade, get yourself a pre-scrub wash, slap on some aftershave and then maybe some oil-free moisturizer 10-20 mins later if you're feelin dry. If you havent had a haircut in awhile, make sure your sideburns aren't unruly. Trim the hairs with a #3 blade or something.

Definitely go hard on your secondaries. I overachieved in the quality and number of interview invites I got, and I'm certain my secondaries had a lot to do with that. I got many compliments on them at my interviews.

Be cool with the admissions office staff. Show up with a smile on your face and just be cool. Talk to them if it's natural.

Learn to travel light. Every time I went on an interview I found a thing or two I could leave out of my travel bag. I got a compact folding bag for my suit which was nice. Toss in some toiletries, a book, done. I spent a lot of time walking around the campuses and cities I visited, and I couldn't have done it without traveling light.

I stayed with student hosts a couple times, but then I decided it just wasn't for me. I fly out of an awkward place so I usually had to spend all day traveling. I'd show up very weary and would not want to be social at all. I started staying in hotels so I could wake up in the morning and get my mind right. Do some pushups, situps, jumping jacks (lulz), think about stuff to say, etc.... I know a lot of people prefer student hosts, but I didn't, and I'm sure there are others like me.

Make sure you have a solid breakfast available to you on the mornings before interviews. Sometimes all you get is coffee and doughnuts at the school, and I find it hard to be upbeat when I'm hungry.

In your interviews, just be real. I had a couple group interviews (multiple interviewees and multiple interviewers), and I think some people give predictable, safe answers that can come across as cheezy. I think if you're thoughtful and genuine it almost doesn't matter what you say.

5 hour energy > jetlag

I found the sdn interview feedback section to be very useful. Look at the sections about which types of questions a particular school tends to ask.

Be social throughout your interview day, with current students, fellow interviewees, etc. You wanna get in a groove to where you're just feelin awesome. You don't wanna get in that mindset where you're like "omg everyone thinks i'm lame and i'm so quiet and i can't think of what to say" blah blah. Stay loose and roll with it.
 
getright said:
Assuming that you're planning on applying after your junior year, you would be fine if you take it during the summer after your sophomore year. Getting it out of the way early would also make the application process much less stressful.
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That is true, thanks. However, is taking the MCAT a summer in advance acceptable, or do some schools frown upon the date it is taken?
 
obliViate21 said:
That is true, thanks. However, is taking the MCAT a summer in advance acceptable, or do some schools frown upon the date it is taken?
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as long as it is within the a certain amount of time it's fine ...usually 3 years but a handful of schools have their cutoff at 2 years ...you should be fine everywhere if you take it the summer before
 
skinMD said:
as long as it is within the a certain amount of time it's fine ...usually 3 years but a handful of schools have their cutoff at 2 years ...you should be fine everywhere if you take it the summer before
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Awesome, thanks!
 
Interviews are simple. Be cool and normal. Look people in the eye. Talk about things other than medicine when the opportunity presents itself. Ask about the other person and their interests. Have energy.

These are all just basic social skills that anyone who is good with people will know. The problem is, there are a lot of pre-meds that don't have these social skills. I wasn't that great of an applicant on paper, but all the interviews I went to I did well. I received multiple 6 figure scholarships (US News 20-30 research ranking schools), the largest just under 200k. Don't underestimate being "cool" or relaxed, however you want to put it.
 
slow clap for stickied post

academyawards5.gif


good show sir
 
Be interesting. If you're unique, play it up.

I agree with the above poster who said that he didn't stay with student hosts. I tried it, they were always awesome, and I learned a lot about the schools, it was really fun. But I was dog tired the next day. Heck, even when I stayed in hotels I was tired. It's just not worth it. Be rested for your interview day.

I don't know how numbers helped, but don't think they'll actually get you anywhere beyond an interview.
 
Whatever 'tier' of med schools you think you'll probably get into, you'll probably end up getting into the 'tier' below it. Seems to be the common trend, seeing as how competition is higher than ever.

Oh, and you'll still be a doctor if you can get in!
 
Great job man! Appreciate all you have done so far for SDN(Aka MCAT study method, MDApp, this, etc.) Thanks
 
Wow. this thread got stickied...certified like USDA.
 
kiwifruit487 said:
Great post!

Additional thoughts, from someone with VERY mediocre stats, but received interview at a top-10 institution, and acceptance to a reach school...

1. Your personal statement needs to be ON FIRE. When you have average stats like me, you are going to blend in like everyone else. You might have a little clinical experience here, a little research there, a little volunteering here and there, and they all might sound very boring... so you need your PS, activities description, and secondary essays to do all the talking. Make sure they are top-notch quality. I cannot emphasize this enough. You have to sound like an interesting person with an interesting story to tell, or at least, with an interesting way of telling your boring story. Write. Rewrite. Rewrite. Rewrite. Don't be afraid to make bold changes. Don't be afraid to leave things out. Just make sure that what you have is top notch quality. Those who read your application are only human... the top numbers will float to the top of their pile... and all the 3.5-3.7/29-31 will basically be lumped as "passing the threshold" but lets see what's so special.

2. To echo what everyone else, please buy a suit whether or not you are a man or woman. I've definitely seen a girl show up with a regular long sleeve shirt, short party skirt, and party heels. Don't be that girl.

3. If you suck at interviews, practice. Practice talking to people. Practice being natural. And with ethical questions, try to be neutral as much as possible--you never know where your interviewer stands. Always be open-minded. Flexible. But have a stance.

4. If you want a school badly enough, send them letters of interest, additional LOR, updates, ANYTHING to remain contact and to assure of your "fit" with the school. Again, your letters need to be top notch quality and with a lot of conviction.
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would you like to share your essay with us? 😛 i need some inspiration.
 
anybody else think "boom shakalaka" re😛S ON FIRE statement?
 
skinMD said:
i had one interviewer who sat there and read my application during the interview ...at times reading my LORs to me out loud ...to say the least it did not make a good impression
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I had a similar experience at one of the schools where I interviewed. Like you, it didn't make good impression. It was extremely awkward and I excused myself for a minute to go get a drink of water.

Excellent post, BTW, Nick. I'm sure others have said this and it may be in the OP as well but have an open mind going into this process. You may be in love with a certain school as a premed but be ready to have your impressions changed at interview day, for better or worse.
 
yeah what's up with the unsticky? 🙁
 
cbrons, I just bookmarked your thread for future reference as I did with this one. Everybody gets some love
 
Firstly, this is a great thread. Thanks for taking the time to do this and congratulations on on the outcome of your app cycle! I know how exciting it is to be happy about where you're going!

I definitely want to reiterate your point about being honest. I had a pre-health committee interview at my school, but aside from that, I never went through practice interview questions or rehearsed any answers. Instead, I did a substantial amount of self-reflection before I hit the interview trail. To everyone preparing to apply, you should be intimately familiar with all of the experiences you've listed on your AMCAS; I'm pretty sure all of my interviewers throughout the season have asked me to expound upon a meaningful experience related to an AMCAS activity.

On that note, I also think it's fine to take a moment before you answer an interview question to compose your response. At one school where the questions were all particularly bizarre, there was one instance where I actually asked if I could have a minute to think my answer through. Afterwards, the interviewer commented that he appreciated my taking the time to be thorough and he thought I seemed very genuine. Regardless of the question, always think through your response and check yourself often to ensure that you're actually answering the question that was posed. If you interview at a school that uses panel interviewing, you'll see the importance of this; there's nothing more awkward than sitting through a group interview while another interviewee fumbles around with prepared answers to distantly related questions.

Lastly, I want to share questions I posed to my interviewers that I think they found engaging:

What brought you to <school X>?
This one's good because it gives the interviewer a chance to talk about themselves a bit. You can likely also get some insight into what qualities the school possesses that might be particularly attractive to you. This question also generally permits for a lot of follow-up questions.

What are some qualities that you think the students at <school X> possess that make them stand out from other schools you've worked and/or trained at?
This one was my favorite and I think the interviewers liked getting it because they had to actually think about it. You can comment on their response and maybe sneak in a comment about how you are similar to the students there and think you'd fit into the school's community 😉

Good luck to everyone getting ready to go through this process! Like NickNaylor said, it's long and horrible and will make you feel like absolute **** at times. Be honest and don't dwell on the things that have already happened (don't think about how your interview went afterwards - you can't change it!). If there's anything I can do for anyone in the future or if anyone would like to PM me with questions, feel free to do so.
 
NeuroKidd said:
Firstly, this is a great thread. Thanks for taking the time to do this and congratulations on on the outcome of your app cycle! I know how exciting it is to be happy about where you're going!

I definitely want to reiterate your point about being honest. I had a pre-health committee interview at my school, but aside from that, I never went through practice interview questions or rehearsed any answers. Instead, I did a substantial amount of self-reflection before I hit the interview trail. To everyone preparing to apply, you should be intimately familiar with all of the experiences you've listed on your AMCAS; I'm pretty sure all of my interviewers throughout the season have asked me to expound upon a meaningful experience related to an AMCAS activity.

On that note, I also think it's fine to take a moment before you answer an interview question to compose your response. At one school where the questions were all particularly bizarre, there was one instance where I actually asked if I could have a minute to think my answer through. Afterwards, the interviewer commented that he appreciated my taking the time to be thorough and he thought I seemed very genuine. Regardless of the question, always think through your response and check yourself often to ensure that you're actually answering the question that was posed. If you interview at a school that uses panel interviewing, you'll see the importance of this; there's nothing more awkward than sitting through a group interview while another interviewee fumbles around with prepared answers to distantly related questions.

Lastly, I want to share questions I posed to my interviewers that I think they found engaging:

What brought you to <school X>?
This one's good because it gives the interviewer a chance to talk about themselves a bit. You can likely also get some insight into what qualities the school possesses that might be particularly attractive to you. This question also generally permits for a lot of follow-up questions.

What are some qualities that you think the students at <school X> possess that make them stand out from other schools you've worked and/or trained at?
This one was my favorite and I think the interviewers liked getting it because they had to actually think about it. You can comment on their response and maybe sneak in a comment about how you are similar to the students there and think you'd fit into the school's community 😉

Good luck to everyone getting ready to go through this process! Like NickNaylor said, it's long and horrible and will make you feel like absolute **** at times. Be honest and don't dwell on the things that have already happened (don't think about how your interview went afterwards - you can't change it!). If there's anything I can do for anyone in the future or if anyone would like to PM me with questions, feel free to do so.
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Great post!
 
This might have been said already, but act professional at all times. Do not joke or fool around anywhere when you're on "stage" (bare with me) at your interview.

Go in knowing that the interview will be challenging, but be confident that you can slam it. Same kind of mindset required for going into the MCAT and coming out with a 35+.

About the application process, I think letters of interest are extremely important. I know UMs dean said he doesn't care about them, but all schools are different. Send them out to ensure the schools that you are ready and willing to attend. It doesn't hurt just to let them know how blown away you were by the school and interview day and how comfortable you felt. Be proactive, stay on top of EVERYTHING.

Good luck everyone. Above all, be patient. Practice patience at all times.
 
hey nick i read through your md apps

youre going to go places. hopefully life takes you to good places. dont ever lose your sense of wonder.
 
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