Regretting optometry after I think of this....

[Dude2011]

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quit being a douchebag. If you are pro-nurse....go be one. Don't start flame-wars.

Listen, I made a point that nurses make a lot of money. YOU implied that I was wrong. So I proved my facts. And now you are attacking me for proving my facts. Not cool.

 

[nc2tarheels]

Listen, I made a point that nurses make a lot of money. YOU implied that I was wrong. So I proved my facts. And now you are attacking me for proving my facts. Not cool.

i never implied your wrong. I said what my sister made. I know a little bit about the nursing field and I know that the amount you posted is quite high. My point is, if you don't like optometry and you like nursing....go be one. quit your complaining and bad mouthing of the profession around people that care very passionately about it. Get lost.

 

[Dude2011]

i never implied your wrong. I said what my sister made. I know a little bit about the nursing field and I know that the amount you posted is quite high. My point is, if you don't like optometry and you like nursing....go be one. quit your complaining and bad mouthing of the profession around people that care very passionately about it. Get lost.

Now you are lying. Where did I bad mouth optometry? I defended optometry by stating you deserve more pay.

 

[thecgrblue]

Time to play Xbox.

 

[Dude2011]

Here's a link to the Rehab Sciences forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=208

Go tell them to be nurses too.

Time to play Xbox.

Wow, my impression of optometrists has fallen from reading these boards. I now see you as bitter, defensive, unprofessional people.

 

[Shnurek]

Notice he/she is pre-optometry

 

[imemily]

i never implied your wrong. I said what my sister made. I know a little bit about the nursing field and I know that the amount you posted is quite high. My point is, if you don't like optometry and you like nursing....go be one. quit your complaining and bad mouthing of the profession around people that care very passionately about it. Get lost.

Relax nc2tarheels. Just because you are passionate about optometry, it doesn't give you the right to act like a forum moderator.

Dude2011 can complain/bad mouth all he wants. It is up to the forum mods and admins to decide whether its bad mouthing or not. From my analysis, he isn't even bad mouthing optometry, rather, he is comparing it to other fields, which is good, as it gives students a better overview of Optometry.

 

[imemily]

Wow, my impression of optometrists has fallen from reading these boards. I now see you as bitter, defensive, unprofessional people.

Most optometrists are far from that, in fact, I haven't met an optometrist yet who is as you describe.

I think most of these posters are pre-optometry students or optometry students, so take their opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[KHE]

This job pays up to $125,000 and requires just an associates degree in nursing:
http://1.usa.gov/hNemZz

It also requires you to be on call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and willing to report for duty under any and all circumstaces. It also requires experience in blood and bone marrow transplants and oncology work. No nursing graduate is going to have anywhere close to enough experience in any of that to qualify for that job.

This job pays up to $116,000 and requires just an associates degree in nursing:
http://1.usa.gov/ghjKAn

It also requires a bunch of experience in a highly specialized aspect of nursing.

This job pays up to $117,000 and requires just an associates degree in nursing:
http://1.usa.gov/fOVOBG

Requires also 3-4 years of med/surg nursing experience as well.

I can find hundreds of other high paying nursing jobs.

Meanwhile, the same website pays only for an $75,000 for an optometrist. That's totally unfair in my opinion....
http://1.usa.gov/dY1Mma

That's after you reach a certain GS scale. It doesn't even start at that.

 

[KHE]

Wow, my impression of optometrists has fallen from reading these boards. I now see you as bitter, defensive, unprofessional people.

The next time you have floaters then, see an ophthalmologist.

 

[imemily]

It also requires you to be on call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and willing to report for duty under any and all circumstaces. It also requires experience in blood and bone marrow transplants and oncology work. No nursing graduate is going to have anywhere close to enough experience in any of that to qualify for that job.



It also requires a bunch of experience in a highly specialized aspect of nursing.



Requires also 3-4 years of med/surg nursing experience as well.



That's after you reach a certain GS scale. It doesn't even start at that.

But doesn't the income of OD's remain fairly constant, with some deviations, throughout their careers? (assuming, one is working for another doctor or corporate company)

 

[KHE]

But doesn't the income of OD's remain fairly constant, with some deviations, throughout their careers? (assuming, one is working for another doctor or corporate company)

You can cap out quickly. Which is why working for someone else isn't the way to go in this field.

 

[imemily]

You can cap out quickly. Which is why working for someone else isn't the way to go in this field.

After reading the oversupply issue, would it not be difficult to find or build a practice of your own?

Like, if there are 10 ODs in the market for a practice, than the seller of the practice would just hire a couple more ODs, rather than sell the whole practice. Since there are 10 OD's, the seller can offer these ODs lower salaries as it is difficult for the ODs to even find a job.

I am just speculating, after reading certain threads, so please feel free to correct me.

 

[Dude2011]

This message is for Emily only. Since you are analyzing careers, you may be interested to know that anyone who already has a bachelors degree can apply to get a RN degree in just one year. Here is an example of such a program....

http://www.creighton.edu/nursing/programs/acceleratedprogram/

And since you love eyes, you can become a nurse who specializes in eyes.

 

[thecgrblue]

Notice he/she is pre-optometry

Yes, and so are you.

DUDE2011: I get what you were saying. Forgive me for jumping on what you were saying, but you really didn't know what OD salaries are. I assure you I'm not bitter...shoot I don't even know what I'd be bitter about. Nursing? Unprofessional? Yea, probably due to the keyboard-courage

However, I will admit to be defensive b/c and you can thank a certain SDN user(s) for making absurd claims about OD that are entirely unfounded and just repeats of old arguments that this forum of.

You can't get upset over me being defensive for not letting a poor claim go by without arguing against it. IHS salaries are BY FAR not the norm for the profession and KHE addressed the others.

 

[Dude2011]

Requires also 3-4 years of med/surg nursing experience as well.

Fair enough, doctor. The RN ad that I found pays up to $117,000 per year but may require a bachelors degree and 3 years of experience.

Compare that to the salary of an optometrist with a doctorate and 3 years of experience.

 

[Shnurek]

Fair enough, doctor. The RN ad that I found pays up to $117,000 per year but may require a bachelors degree and 3 years of experience.

Compare that to the salary of an optometrist with a doctorate and 3 years of experience.

The difference being that the optometrist can go on to work as an autonomous professional while those with masters/bachelors do not have as much freedom in their careers.

 

[bobbio]

The difference being that the optometrist can go on to work as an autonomous professional while those with masters/bachelors do not have as much freedom in their careers.

To be fair, I don't think autonomy is something that everyone seeks from their career. On another note, if you're an NP or PA (which are master programs) you can pretty much practice autonomously.

 

[imemily]

Fair enough, doctor. The RN ad that I found pays up to $117,000 per year but may require a bachelors degree and 3 years of experience.

Compare that to the salary of an optometrist with a doctorate and 3 years of experience.

This was my point too.

On average, a nurse with equal experience as an OD, would be better off financially.

 

[KHE]

After reading the oversupply issue, would it not be difficult to find or build a practice of your own?

In some respects yes, in some respects no. It requires a commitment on your part either way to make it happen.

Like, if there are 10 ODs in the market for a practice, than the seller of the practice would just hire a couple more ODs, rather than sell the whole practice. Since there are 10 OD's, the seller can offer these ODs lower salaries as it is difficult for the ODs to even find a job.

Then move somewhere else.

I am just speculating, after reading certain threads, so please feel free to correct me.

There are issues with practice ownership in any field. Optometry perhaps more so than something like say....dermatology or orthodontics.

But I am here to tell you that you CAN make it happen and it's not nearly as hard as you think. It takes planning, flexibility, dedication and a commitment to yourself that you really want to do it.

 

[Dude2011]

To be fair, I don't think autonomy is something that everyone seeks from their career. On another note, if you're an NP or PA (which are master programs) you can pretty much practice autonomously.

You are right about NP's. They have the same autonomy as physicians. They can diagnose disease and prescribe medications. PA's are similar but are not nurses.

And if you really want to talk about big bucks and autonomy, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists do the same job as anesthesiologists. They make up to $200,000 a year. See link....
http://www.crnasalary.com/
Requirements are one year of ICU experience before grad school, and then a masters degree.

 

[Shnurek]

You are right about NP's. They have the same autonomy as physicians. They can diagnose disease and prescribe medications. PA's are similar but are not nurses.

And if you really want to talk about big bucks and autonomy, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists do the same job as anesthesiologists. They make up to $200,000 a year. See link....
http://www.crnasalary.com/
Requirements are one year of ICU experience before grad school, and then a masters degree.

LOL NP's and PA's do NOT have the same autonomy as physicians. Where are you getting your info from? They are highly restricted in terms of their scope of practice but they can switch their specialty easily compared to physicians. PA's have to be under supervision by an MD/DO. NP's also have to be under the supervision of an MD/DO depending on the state.

Also I took a practice RN test which is the culmination of a Bachelor's degree and it was a joke. (My co-worker is pursuing this path) Even the OAT to get into optometry school before/after you get your bachelor's is much harder.

As for the CRNA's its good to see them stepping up to the plate and doing that high risk specialty. Although to the physicians I've talked to they would prefer AA (Anaesthesia Assistants [specially trained PA's]) over CRNA's.

I am going into optometry to get autonomy and open up my own practice. If I did not desire this, I probably would have done PA/AA.

Or, just go into a PhD. program, work my ass off for 5-6 years after college and only make around what a PA makes :X but hey its not all about salary. (or is it? muhahaha)

 

[Dude2011]

LOL NP's and PA's do NOT have the same autonomy as physicians. Where are you getting your info from? They are highly restricted in terms of their scope of practice but they can switch their specialty easily compared to physicians.

What is a physician permitted to do that a NP cannot?

PA's have to be under supervision by an MD/DO. NP's also have to be under the supervision of an MD/DO depending on the state.

"Supervision" means very little. They are rarely in the same room together. And as you just admitted, many states do NOT require NP's to have physician supervision.

Also I took a practice RN test which is the culmination of a Bachelor's degree and it was a joke. (My co-worker is pursuing this path) Even the OAT to get into optometry school before/after you get your bachelor's is much harder.

Really? Optometry exams are harder than RN exams? Wow. What a surprise. Next you will tell me that a calculus exam is harder than an algebra exam.

It would be more accurate for you to compare an MD licensing exam with an NP licensing exam.

By the way, there is no such thing as a "RN test which is the culmination of a Bachelor's degree". You have to get a nursing degree BEFORE you qualify to take the RN licensing exam, and your nursing degree can be an associates degree.

As for the CRNA's its good to see them stepping up to the plate and doing that high risk specialty.

Uh yeah, as if acute care nursing is low risk. Ask a critical care RN if her job is risky.

Although to the physicians I've talked to they would prefer AA (Anaesthesia Assistants [specially trained PA's]) over CRNA's.

Really? How many surgeons have you asked?

I am going into optometry to get autonomy and open up my own practice. If I did not desire this, I probably would have done PA/AA.

Many NP's have their own practice. You sure are obsessed with autonomy. You might want to consider the disadvantages of autonomy.

 

[nc2tarheels]

dude2011 = socal ???

 

[Dude2011]

dude2011 = socal ???

No. I would never become an optometrist. I'm too lazy.

But I appreciate the compliment that I have the writing style of an optometrist.

I know you guys hate Socal, but if I were to consider a career in optometry, I would want to know the bad things about it before I committed myself to the career. If he prevents someone from choosing a career that later proves to be unsatisfying, then that is a good thing. All that matters is whether or not Socal is providing accurate information about optometry. If he regularly lies about optometry, then yes, he should be banned from this website. On the other hand, if his statements are depressing but truthful, then he is an asset to this website whether or not you hate him.

As for you optometry students, you have invested an incredible amount of time, work, and money in your pursuits, so it is natural for you to attack anyone who dares to suggest that there may be smarter career choices out there.

Perhaps the most important question to ask experienced optometrists is this: If you had to live your life all over again, would you still choose optometry as a career? Now that's a thread that should be started on this message board.

 

[bobbio]

You guys are comparing apples to oranges by comparing optometry to nursing - I don't know why you even guys bother. Hell, if the argument is all about salary and autonomy, you mind as well toss a neurosurgeon in the mix. I'm certain they have all the autonomy in the world and their salary is even greater than an NP and optometrist combined.

What is a physician permitted to do that a NP cannot?

NPs cannot perform major surgical procedures.

 

[Dude2011]

NPs cannot perform major surgical procedures.

Neither can most MD's. Nor optometrists for that matter.

 

[bobbio]

Neither can most MD's. Nor optometrists for that matter.

This is addressing something totally different than what you asked.

No need to get all defensive - I was just answering your question, which was "What is a physician permitted to do that a NP cannot?" It's true that not all MDs can perform surgery but I'm sure not all of them want to.

And I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, since I know others will probably chime in on this - but optometrists can perform certain eye surgeries in certain states - but that's another discussion altogether.

 

[Dude2011]

It's true that not all MDs can perform surgery but I'm sure not all of them want to.

Most are not permitted to, and most do not want to. The point I was trying to make is that NP's have a lot more autonomy and power than Shnurek chooses to believe. And that NP exams are not a "joke."

optometrists can perform certain eye surgeries in certain states - but that's another discussion altogether.

Now that I did not know.

 

[nc2tarheels]

No. I would never become an optometrist. I'm too lazy.

But I appreciate the compliment that I have the writing style of an optometrist.

I know you guys hate Socal, but if I were to consider a career in optometry, I would want to know the bad things about it before I committed myself to the career. If he prevents someone from choosing a career that later proves to be unsatisfying, then that is a good thing. All that matters is whether or not Socal is providing accurate information about optometry. If he regularly lies about optometry, then yes, he should be banned from this website. On the other hand, if his statements are depressing but truthful, then he is an asset to this website whether or not you hate him.

As for you optometry students, you have invested an incredible amount of time, work, and money in your pursuits, so it is natural for you to attack anyone who dares to suggest that there may be smarter career choices out there.

Perhaps the most important question to ask experienced optometrists is this: If you had to live your life all over again, would you still choose optometry as a career? Now that's a thread that should be started on this message board.

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Dude2011]

LMAO!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

You're the one who thought I was Socal.

 

[thecgrblue]

Oy vey

 

[Dude2011]

You obviously don't know who Socal is.

Is Socal a liar? Or just annoying?

 

[imemily]

You guys are comparing apples to oranges by comparing optometry to nursing - I don't know why you even guys bother. Hell, if the argument is all about salary and autonomy, you mind as well toss a neurosurgeon in the mix. I'm certain they have all the autonomy in the world and their salary is even greater than an NP and optometrist combined.



NPs cannot perform major surgical procedures.

It's really not comparing apples to oranges. Both OD's and Nurses have post secondary education and both of them have school debt.

Correct me if I am wrong, but, Neurosurgeons have to go through residency after graduating medical school. Whereas, ODs and nurses do not...I know this wasn't your point, but one can not compare ods and neurosurgeons or ods and mds - due to the length of study.

Comparing OD's to nurses, pharmacists, dentists, PhD's in various fields, I think, would be okay, as they have identical years of schooling, with some differences in debt.

 

[bobbio]

It's really not comparing apples to oranges. Both OD's and Nurses have post secondary education and both of them have school debt.

Correct me if I am wrong, but, Neurosurgeons have to go through residency after graduating medical school. Whereas, ODs and nurses do not...I know this wasn't your point, but one can not compare ods and neurosurgeons or ods and mds - due to the length of study.

Comparing OD's to nurses, pharmacists, dentists, PhD's in various fields, I think, would be okay, as they have identical years of schooling, with some differences in debt.

Wasn't my point but just for the sake of argument - medical school is a post secondary eduction and they, too, have school debt.

 

[mintyjulep]

Is Socal a liar? Or just annoying?

Both. He's not an optometrist or even an optometry student, he's a failure in school, and he's annoying and self-righteous. You do exhibit that sort of writing style, though. 🙂

 

[Dude2011]

Both. He's not an optometrist or even an optometry student, he's a failure in school, and he's annoying and self-righteous. You do exhibit that sort of writing style, though. 🙂

Can you provide examples of his lies?

 

[PharmaTope]

Say you graduate school in 200k debt, which you probably will be, if not more...
-you get a job for 80,000 straight out of school ....
-your income based repayment is around $900/ month (or aprox 10,800 annually)
-subtract 24,000 for federal taxes
-subtract 5,000 for state taxes
-subtract 1,000 for rent (12,000)
-subtract 300 for car payment (3600)
-subtract 100 for car insurance (1200)
-subtract 500 for food (6000)

$80,000-62,600= 17,400 Wow. That.is.pathetic.

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year? 😱

The worst part? you will be locked into this salary for years to come because you will be paying student loans back for close to 25 years. If your income goes up, the government gets a bigger chunk. How exactly are you supposed to start a family/business/practice when your take home pay is no better than someone working in retail as a salesperson (wats more depressing is this person is probably in less debt then you are)?
Optometry school, financially, is no longer worth the cost.
-signed a regretful and worried, pending graduate.

i am a big believer in money follows happiness. if you are happy with optometry you will enjoy everyday and figure a way to make more money.

there isnt many other careers out there making more, so keep that in mind.

 

[imemily]

Can you provide examples of his lies?

Yeah, I was just re-reading this thread again for the billionth time, and most of his or her claims seem believable. Maybe I am just naive?

 

[blackhole2]

Yeah, I was just re-reading this thread again for the billionth time, and most of his or her claims seem believable. Maybe I am just naive?

If you look back at the threads socal2014 posted in you'll notice they were asked NUMEROUS times whether they were pursuing a career in optometry, whether or not they were an actual Optometrist or optometry student and they never once responded.

 

[Dude2011]

If you look back at the threads socal2014 posted in you'll notice they were asked NUMEROUS times whether they were pursuing a career in optometry, whether or not they were an actual Optometrist or optometry student and they never once responded.

Lack of response is not a lie. If he is an optometrist, and everyone here hates him, don't you think he would want to maximize his anonymity?

 

[blackhole2]

Lack of response is not a lie. If he is an optometrist, and everyone here hates him, don't you think he would want to maximize his anonymity?

He's not willing to give a frame of reference. Why should anyone believe him? Everyone here dislikes socal2014 because they refuse to do just that. Go back and look through this thread and you'll find KHE has refuted some of his lies.

 

[Dude2011]

Why would you assume something like that? I make a multi-six figure income and my marginal rate last year was 18%. Try the taxcaster feature on the quicken website. It gives you a BASIC tool to play around with different tax scenarios.

Or you could use the official IRS calculator...
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html

The turbotax link is useful though. I will use it when they activate it for 2011 taxes.

 

[KHE]

Or you could use the official IRS calculator...
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html

The turbotax link is useful though. I will use it when they activate it for 2011 taxes.

Ummmm.....when you're dealing in this area I would respectfully submit that only an IDIOT would use the IRS website because you'll get information that will slant towards them every single time. Taxes are something where you have to be comfortable operating in the grey areas and the IRS website ain't going to give you that information.

 

[Dude2011]

Ummmm.....when you're dealing in this area I would respectfully submit that only an IDIOT would use the IRS website because you'll get information that will slant towards them every single time. Taxes are something where you have to be comfortable operating in the grey areas and the IRS website ain't going to give you that information.

Oh you are very welcome for the link. No need to be so friendly about it.

I have been doing my own taxes since 1990, including complicated stock capital gains, without needing turbotax, so you don't need to lecture me about tax computations, doctor.

Or maybe you are right. We should go ahead and use your turbotax taxcaster that uses 2010 tax rules instead of my IRS link that uses 2011 rules.

......Well isn't this interesting. I plugged in my 2010 capital gains into taxcaster and got this message from the website: "Unfortunately, your tax situation is not covered by TaxCaster." Oh darn. I guess taxcaster is useless if someone actually files a Schedule D. On the bright side, it would probably work just fine for someone who files a 1040EZ.

 

[imemily]

He's not willing to give a frame of reference. Why should anyone believe him? Everyone here dislikes socal2014 because they refuse to do just that. Go back and look through this thread and you'll find KHE has refuted some of his lies.

So, what if socal said he was an optometrist or whatever? I don't think that would change the validity of his or her statements....but you are right, I do not understand his/her constant complaints.

 

[mintyjulep]

So, what if socal said he was an optometrist or whatever? I don't think that would change the validity of his or her statements....but you are right, I do not understand his/her constant complaints.

He's NOT an optometrist (that we know for sure) and more than likely not an optometry student. If you click on his profile and read through his posts in just the past year and a half, he's asking questions about optometry prerequisites, repeating courses, having a low GPA, and even flunking the classes he was trying to repeat.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Well, looks like another SDN thread has fallen to the lowest common denominator....normally SoCal shows up on the weekends to perform this function, but newcomers usually have their time in the sun, or gutter I guess.

First of all, the idea of comparing "see, you can make quantity X from this amount of education over here" is a completely juvenile argument that no professional in the field would ever say. Yes, there ARE some nurses making 120k. I also know of an OD that is worth 16 million dollars, so that is a pointless endeavor. Also, the "debts vs income" rationale is a fallacy, or at least not particularly harsh on OD's. Keep in mind that an airline pilot will easily rack up 100k in loans, and make around 25k to start for most major carriers...not to mention the MILLIONS of grads all over the country with outrageously expensive degrees in fields with very little income potential. Go hang out at a job fair and meet a few thousand...the idea that OD's, of all people, are getting shafted in this area is baseless when in comparison to most other fields.

Here is all you need to know: If money motivates you, go into something like accounting or finance. A CPA requires much less training than most medical fields, and you will almost certainly make six figures. Or be an airplane mechanic, an engineer, etc. All of these will make you a good amount of money with less money and time invested....Now, none of this speaks to the fact that you have ZERO chance of ever being rich, making your own schedule, changing people's lives, etc, that optometry very clearly does offer. It is not a guarantee for any of these things, but it can happen, and if that possibility does not motivate or inspire you, pick something else. You could easily make the same arguments for a social worker (many times a 4 year degree to make 20k), or to a stock broker (3-4 years to make millions). Talking about any career in terms of time & loans vs income is totally pointless and irrelavent....Heck, just go setup a drug cartel; you don't have to go to school at all and you could be a millionaire....even if the long-term prospects (death, incarceration) are a little off-putting....

Another non-issue argument on SDN. What a shocker.

 

[thecgrblue]

Another non-issue argument on SDN. What a shocker.

So true, I've just given up entirely trying to explain realities against idiotic strings of logic.

I appreciate all your posts. Resources such as yourself and others are the sole reason I still use these forums.

 

[Dude2011]

Another non-issue argument on SDN. What a shocker.

There is nothing wrong with educating pre-optometry students about other career options, especially when there is a chance that they will regret becoming an optometrist. Had career message boards existed before I went to college, I probably would had chosen a different major.

Or maybe we should wait until they rack up $200,000 in college loans before we teach them about other careers.