Regretting optometry after I think of this....

[mintyjulep]

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So true, I've just given up entirely trying to explain realities against idiotic strings of logic.

I appreciate all your posts. Resources such as yourself and others are the sole reason I still use these forums.

Seriously. DILLIGAF has to be one of the few with his/her head screwed on properly.

 

[thecgrblue]

There is nothing wrong with educating pre-optometry students about other career options, especially when there is a chance that they will regret becoming an optometrist. Had career message boards existed before I went to college, I probably would had chosen a different major.

Or maybe we should wait until they rack up $200,000 in college loans before we teach them about other careers.

Dear God I can't believe it, you are socal, just with a different name.

 

[Dude2011]

Dear God I can't believe it, you are socal, just with a different name.

Sigh. Some people only learn the hard way. We'll see how happy you are in 6 years.

Optometrist job satisfaction link.....
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-optometrist/comments

 

[DILLIGAF]

"There is nothing wrong with educating pre-optometry students about other career options, especially when there is a chance that they will regret becoming an optometrist. Had career message boards existed before I went to college, I probably would had chosen a different major.

Or maybe we should wait until they rack up $200,000 in college loans before we teach them about other careers."

I would completely agree that people should be educated about other careers....problem is that from any objective perspective you were simply being a contrarian much more so than any "educative" purpose. If you would like to educate, go to a nursing forum (there are thousands) and explain why you feel it is a great field. Going into an OD forum to explain why optometry makes no sense is like my going to an American Legion to talk about why military service is pointless or immoral....odds are you will not be perceived as an "educator", but rather as an "agitator", and anything you say will get muffled by the deluge of fists pounding away. I mean, how about I go into a Vet forum on SDN here and tell them how dumb it is to be a DVM. (8 plus years of school for about 65k on average. What a bunch of losers!!!) I could go on to explain that myself, as an OD, went through a less rigorous selection, make triple what they do, and don't have to smell like a wet dog when I come home...now, am I being an "educator" in that scenario? I doubt anyone rational would think so.

Here are the 3 things that make optometry great: HUGE satisfaction, autonomy, and a comfortable but never extravagant living. A lot of other things will get you similar things, but some of us have a passion for THIS field in particular, and that is why we chose it. Anyone that is persuaded by an argument of decimals and dollars and is looking into health care should stop immediately, because WE are the wrong tree for that argument. Go be a day trader or something...call me when you can't see the computer screen anymore.

 

[Taven7755]

Sigh. Some people only learn the hard way. We'll see how happy you are in 6 years.

Optometrist job satisfaction link.....
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-optometrist/comments

Wait...wait....do you REALLY just use an INTERNET COMMENT BOARD as proof that optometry is a bad field?!?! REALLY!?

What is really fun is to go back a few pages and click on random careers to read the rap sheet of people complaining about them....nevermind that the link was due to the fact that US News & World Report picked optometry as one of the best fields...oh NO, NOT reliable!!! The raving of completely unverified bozos that wrote in a comment box, now THAT is where the truth lies!!! I am going to drop out of school now as I write this...

Welcome back SoCal....you tried man, you really tried. How pathetically entertaining. It's like Charlie Sheen with a computer and more anger, minus tiger blood and lots of WINNING!!!!!

SoCal's (or "Dude) job =

 

[Dude2011]

Wait...wait....do you REALLY just use an INTERNET COMMENT BOARD as proof that optometry is a bad field?!?! REALLY!?

The irony is that you are using this internet comment board as proof that optometry is a great field.

I'll tell you what you want to hear. You are GUARANTEED to love optometry. No need to worry at all. Happy now?

 

[Taven7755]

The irony is that you are using this internet comment board as proof that optometry is a great field.

I'll tell you what you want to hear. You are GUARANTEED to love optometry. No need to worry at all. Happy now?

No....I am using 6 years of experience in the field and the job I have lined up as proof that I am going to love optometry....that along with my life experiences that give me a tremendous amount of satisfaction from helping people's vision. My point is one that any rational person would make...that if the best thing you find to show unhappiness within the field are unverified bozos (on here or anywhere else) that it is not a very powerful argument.

I mean, what exactly is accomplished through ANY of your posts (all 30 of them)? Has anyone read them and thought "wow, I am so much better off now that I know that?" I just don't see the point....

Anyway, gotta go...doing DILLIGAF's advice of going into everyone else's forums to explain why they are *****s and will live a life of oppressive unhappiness. Wish me luck!

 

[Dude2011]

No....I am using 6 years of experience in the field and the job I have lined up as proof that I am going to love optometry
...that along with my life experiences that give me a tremendous amount of satisfaction from helping people's vision.

It doesn't matter if you enjoy it. What matters is how many optometrists enjoy it. Do I believe that DILLIGAF enjoys his job? Yes I do. Do I believe that ALL optometrists enjoy their job? Absolutely not. Do I believe that hundreds of optometrists would choose a different career if they had to live their lives all over again? Yes.

My point is one that any rational person would make...that if the best thing you find to show unhappiness within the field are unverified bozos (on here or anywhere else) that it is not a very powerful argument.

Are you verified?

And are you implying that everyone on that website who claims to hate optometry is lying? Do you actually think that every optometrist loves his or her job?

I mean, what exactly is accomplished through ANY of your posts (all 30 of them)? Has anyone read them and thought "wow, I am so much better off now that I know that?" I just don't see the point....

Actually, at least poster on this thread is already having second thoughts. But then, you must think that person is an unverified bozo too.

The fact is that EVERY career has workers who regret choosing that career. But very few careers cost $200,000 to enter.

 

[Taven7755]

I am simply pointing out the ridiculousness of someone that a few days ago was a "satisfied customer of an optometrist" is now somehow an expert in the field, and can now "educate" someone that is having second thoughts about it....and yes, I am quite verified. Several people on here have met me in person, and I have no problem telling them who I am. I have had several people stay here in arrangements with people I know at school when they are interviewing. I do not hide behind my keyboard. I don't change names.

Here you go: I am Nick, and I am a second year an Nova. I am from Missouri. (you now have everything you would get from a facebook page) If you come here for a tour, I will possibly be your guide. That is as verified as I can get.

The fact that you are somehow an authority to tell someone having second thoughts is outrageous, and is no different than my walking up to a nurse at the hospital and asking about optometry.

 

[Dude2011]

I am simply pointing out the ridiculousness of someone that a few days ago was a "satisfied customer of an optometrist" is now somehow an expert in the field, and can now "educate" someone that is having second thoughts about it

I never claimed to be an optometry expert. I claimed to know a lot about nursing

It doesn't take a genius to learn that many optometrists regret their career choice.

I don't change names.

Neither do I. I am not Socal.

Here you go: I am Nick, and I am a second year an Nova. I am from Missouri. (you now have everything you would get from a facebook page) If you come here for a tour, I will possibly be your guide. That is as verified as I can get.

Dude, I already believed you. My point is that you assume that anyone online who claims to hate optometry must be lying. Are some lying? Of course. Are most of them lying? I doubt it.

The fact that you are somehow an authority to tell someone having second thoughts is outrageous, and is no different than my walking up to a nurse at the hospital and asking about optometry.

A better analogy would be for you to walk up to a PRE-nursing student and tell them about other careers. Lots of nurses do not enjoy nursing, but at least they do not have $200,000 in debt.

 

[blackhole2]

It doesn't matter if you enjoy it.

Um, yes it does. It matters a lot less if other people enjoy it.

 

[Dude2011]

Um, yes it does. It matters a lot less if other people enjoy it.

No offense, but you sound like someone who just got engaged for the first time. Yes, most marriages end in divorce, but "there's no way it will happen to you."

The fact is, you will not know whether or not you will enjoy being an optometrist until you are an optometrist. You may like it. Or you may not. To assume that you have a 100% chance of liking it is unwise.

Unfortunately, you won't know whether you like it until after you have spent several years and tons of money training to become a OD.

You will probably enjoy the medical aspect. It's the business, political, and financial aspects that are to be determined.

 

[imemily]

Goodness...thanks for that link dude2011. I don't understand why people are getting so defensive about these findings...most of them aren't even optometrists. I for one definitely appreciate hearing both sides of the story. By that I mean information from both KHE/DILLIGAF and SoCal/Dude...lets not get defensive people!

For example, I didn't know OD's made $400 a day before taxes. That seems like a pretty good gig...but with debt and working hours as mentioned in the link below (I am not sure if the comments in the link below are from real ODs) it might not really be that good of a gig.

Can KHE or DILLIGAF chime in on some of the more negative comments made by posters in the link below? I am curious to know you would defend some of these claims, if they are legit in the first place.


http://money.usnews.com/money/caree...st-careers-2009-optometrist/comments?PageNr=3

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

Goodness...thanks for that link dude2011. I don't understand why people are getting so defensive about these findings...most of them aren't even optometrists. I for one definitely appreciate hearing both sides of the story. By that I mean information from both KHE/DILLIGAF and SoCal/Dude...lets not get defensive people!


I think my biggest beef is the $$ that is put on our patients. I can see a wonderful family that has Eyemed and get paid $40 for an eye exam. Next patient is a 10 year old that text messages through the exam, but can get >$100 on his BCBS plan.

Unfortunately $$ keeps the doors open, lights on, staff paid. Therefore which one is more valuable to the practice? To me family time is becoming more important which each passing year. I'd like to take more time off, therefore the highest $$ plan are going to be retained. Medical plans are much more valuable than vision plans.

I will be looking to employ a new grad next year to work 4 days a week. If someone's interested PM me.

 

[KHE]

There is nothing wrong with educating pre-optometry students about other career options, especially when there is a chance that they will regret becoming an optometrist. Had career message boards existed before I went to college, I probably would had chosen a different major.

Or maybe we should wait until they rack up $200,000 in college loans before we teach them about other careers.

Dude2011,

Perhaps you can shed some light on your background and your motivation for being on this forum.

You came on here a couple of weeks ago asking for medical advice, which is against the terms of service. But fine....whatever.

Now, for whatever reason you've made it your personal mission to try to "educate pre-optometry students about career options."

Why? Why do you care so much? What frame of reference do you have for any of the issues facing healthcare and healthcare students in general or optometry in particular?

 

[Dude2011]

Why? Why do you care so much?

Because the students seem to think that there is absolutely no chance that they will regret choosing optometry as a career.

For example, Taven refuses to believe that some optometrists regret their career choice.

The students may indeed enjoy their future career, but it is very important for them to realize that it is very possible that they will regret it.

Will YOU admit that there is a decent chance that THEY will regret it?

Or do you believe that ALL optometrists are glad that they chose optometry as their career?

 

[KHE]

Because the students seem to think that there is absolutely no chance that they will regret choosing optometry as a career.

For example, Taven refuses to believe that some optometrists regret their career choice.

The students may indeed enjoy their future career, but it is very important for them to realize that it is very possible that they will regret it.

Will YOU admit that there is a decent chance that THEY will regret it?

Or do you believe that ALL optometrists are glad that they chose optometry as their career?

Please name me any career that any college student is preparing for where the student thinks "Oh boy....I'm going to regret going into THIS field."

Please name me any career that has no people in it who regret going into it.

Again.....why do you care? Why this mission? Why would you not just say "wow....these guys are idiots" and go on with your life?

What's your background? You're a nurse? You're in healthcare?

 

[Dude2011]

Please name me any career that any college student is preparing for where the student thinks "Oh boy....I'm going to regret going into THIS field."

That's exactly my point. They should consider all possibilities NOW before they get into $200,000 of debt.

Please name me any career that has no people in it who regret going into it.

Good! So you admit that some optometrists DO regret choosing optometry.

Again.....why do you care? Why this mission? Why would you not just say "wow....these guys are idiots" and go on with your life?

I don't think they are idiots. I think they are idealistic instead of realistic.

What's your background? You're a nurse? You're in healthcare?

I'd rather not say.

 

[Dude2011]

Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you need a car, but there's only one car dealership in the world, and it only sells Ferrari's.

On the way to the dealership, you meet me. I inform you that there is a Toyota dealership nearby that you did not know about.

Would you be happy that I told you this? Would you explore the Toyota dealership?

Or would you be mad at me for disturbing you, and stubbornly continue to the Ferrari dealership?

 

[nc2tarheels]

another troll who refuses to say what their true occupation/schooling is. 🙄

 

[Dude2011]

another troll who refuses to say what their true occupation/schooling is. 🙄

Could be worse. I could lie about my occupation.

 

[KHE]

That's exactly my point. They should consider all possibilities NOW before they get into $200,000 of debt.



Good! So you admit that some optometrists DO regret choosing optometry.



I don't think they are idiots. I think they are idealistic instead of realistic.



I'd rather not say.

Yes. I freely admit that many students who go into optometry will regret it.

I also think that many students who go into ANY health care field will regret it because they do it for all the wrong reasons.

Ok. I've admitted on behalf of everyone on here that some will regret choosing optometry and would best be advised to consider all career paths.

Will you go away now please, or are you going to continue your crusade?

 

[Dude2011]

Yes. I freely admit that many students who go into optometry will regret it.

BRAVO

I also think that many students who go into ANY health care field will regret it because they do it for all the wrong reasons.

BRAVO

Ok. I've admitted on behalf of everyone on here that some will regret choosing optometry and would best be advised to consider all career paths.

BRAVO

Will you go away now please?

Soon.

 

[Dude2011]

And kudos to KHE for not banning me despite hating me. That shows a lot of character.

 

[Shnurek]

I just don't get all these people that decide to "rather not say" what they are and anonymously bad mouth people that have pretty much dedicated their lives to a certain profession. I came into the SUNY interview and told them straight-up, "This is what I want to do with the rest of my life." And this is what I truly believe at this moment. It might change but I hope it does not. OD's are smart people and there are many of us so I'm sure the profession will find its way.

 

[Dude2011]

I just don't get all these people that decide to "rather not say" what they are and anonymously bad mouth people that have pretty much dedicated their lives to a certain profession.

I took a practice RN test which is the culmination of a Bachelor's degree and it was a joke

Don't look now, but you anonymously bad-mouthed people.

 

[imemily]

I just don't get all these people that decide to "rather not say" what they are and anonymously bad mouth people that have pretty much dedicated their lives to a certain profession. I came into the SUNY interview and told them straight-up, "This is what I want to do with the rest of my life." And this is what I truly believe at this moment. It might change but I hope it does not. OD's are smart people and there are many of us so I'm sure the profession will find its way.

I don't think it is required of a poster to state who they are, what they do or what experience they have, unless they want to. That stuff is personal and should remain that way.

Dismissing somebody based on occupational status is pretty much wrong and I would think that someone who is on route to a phd degree would know better.

 

[KHE]

And kudos to KHE for not banning me despite hating me. That shows a lot of character.

Character or not, it's rapidly coming to that.

 

[Dude2011]

Character or not, it's rapidly coming to that.

You really know how to take a compliment.

 

[Taven7755]

"I don't think it is required of a poster to state who they are, what they do or what experience they have, unless they want to. That stuff is personal and should remain that way."

First of all, I totally agree with you....but that depends largely on exactly WHAT the person is saying. If they are like many people on here, that being pre-ops asking questions, then no, they have no reason to divulge who they are. BUT, when you start to come off as a "teacher", and to make grandiose opinions about an entire profession, then your ability to hide behind your keyboard is lessened. Of course they have every right to say whatever they want, but we then have every right to dismiss them as a raving kook if they are so tight lipped about how they came about such information.

An example....I go to Nova, and there are a LOT of nursing students and people hoping to go into it as well. Now, do I have the ability to "educate" them on how it is to be a nurse, as a 2nd year OD student? Does even DILLIGAF or Visionary or KHE? No. We are not nurses, so whatever we say is simply parroted from what we read or here....A.K.A BS

Putting all of that aside, let us pose a question....which of these seems more likely:

Option #1: An experienced RN (must be, they are an "expert") goes to see an optometrist. They are happy with the experience, and HAPPEN to know about SDN, and HAPPEN to know they have an OD forum....They then take time out of their day (prob busy, a 30 plus year old nurse likely has a family and works quite heavy hours, prob not on here for hours at a time like DUDE is) to tell people that they had a "good experience". Keep in mind that they did not go to the nursing forums, and only showed up recently after Socal disappeared. That post ALONE was pretty dubious, as many noted, and nothing of value was ever said....THEN they decide that they are going to spend much more of their time, on a weekend, writing several posts to "educate" people they have never met on a field they know nothing about. (Just as I know nothing of value of nursing and acknowledge this) They suddenly say things like "you will like the medical aspect, but not the business or political side". HOW WOULD you know? From working in a hospital as a nurse? From one visit to an OD? Besides the fact that this statement is generic and pointless (what field ENJOYS the political aspect), it is more of the same ZERO nuance arguments that Socal was famous for.

Or option #2: Is is socal or someone very simliar, fresh off of realizing they aren't going to make it, that wants to spend hours making people as beaten down and cynical as they are. Now, which makes more sense?

People stun me...

 

[Dude2011]

Taven, if you insist on accusing of me being Socal, go right ahead.

It doesn't matter if I am Socal, or Barrack Obama, or Inspector Gadget.

What matters is whether or not my comments are factual.

I concluded that many (not all) optometrists regret their career choice.

KHE agreed with me.

Facts are facts. I cannot change facts. And neither can you.

It is possible that you will eventually regret your career choice. No matter how much you deny this possibility.

It's as if you deny that 2+2=4 just because I said so. Since you hate me, I must be wrong, huh?

Do I need an OD degree to know that most people have 2 eyes? No. Nor do I need an OD degree to know that many OD's regret their career choice. What "stuns me" is that you, a doctoral student, cannot figure that out, even after KHE confirms it.

 

[Taven7755]

ok, so let me get this straight.....you did ALL of this, all the provide us all with the oh so profound conclusion that some people will regret their career choice? Perhaps next we can discuss in which direction the sun will rise tomorrow? Of course a lot of people will not be happy with their choice, but that is on them. It is not up to me to pretend I know their hopes and for me to somehow know that my profession won't fulfill them. Anyone that pretends that they can is doing exactly that.

I would never make an assumption about the inner motives or outcomes of an entire profession, period....even more so if I am not in it. That is an unknowable piece of information that only charlatans prescribe to. Are you on a mission then now to notify everyone? Are we the only ones so privileged as to be blessed with profound musings? How about pharmacy, podiatry, or anyone else on the list of most burned out careers?

Perhaps you should start with your professed profession, such as here....
http://www.afscme.org/publications/2208.cfm

Here is a quick summary
"According to the Department of Health and Human Services, slightly more than two-thirds of registered nurses (69.5 percent) reported being even "moderately satisfied" with their jobs.76 By contrast, 85 percent of workers in other industries and 90 percent of professional workers are satisfied with their jobs.77 "

Will they be touched by your wisdom next? How about visiting a bunch of software engineers? (obviously expertise is irrelevant)? Maybe you can speak to my brother (a hand surgeon) and explain to him why he will grow more and more burned out soon....this is madness.

"Some people will not like their career choice and regret it."

or

"Hey mom, I was thinking about going into optometry....but then I read this post on the internet by a nurse that has never spent a day as an optometrist that said I might regret it. They backed it up with comment boards from other sites and their vast array of knowledge about the profession. I am totally reconsidering now. I think I will be a glassblower instead."

Really....this is what we've come to here on SDN?

 

[Taven7755]

When I got on here and saw a line through "DUDE's" name....it reinstituted my faith in SDN.

When he creates ANOTHER avatar (or 3, which I suspect in reading a few other posts), it will reinstitute my faith in stupid.

BUT, this calls for a celebration. PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!

 

[Princeod2583]

You really know how to take a compliment.

I actually would like to admit regret. Regret for writing this post in the first place. I wonder what profession has it good these days? Is it nursing who work long hours on their feet, taking orders from doctors and feeling underappreciated; Is it dentists who make good $ but suffer from back problems and high stress from the pressure of performing highly precise dental procedures. Is it MD's who work 80-100 hour weeks and dedicate their lives to the care of others? Or is it pharmacists who stand on their feet all day, working for corporations, and toiling away behind a counter?
No profession has it "good" if you actively seek out the negative. Heck I can make being a rockstar or movie star a negative if you want. I.e. look at Kurt Cobain or Chris Farley, they had it "all". Fame, $, girls. They "sacrificed" their entire lives to work at their trade. They practiced every day (sound familiar to md's, od's, pharm, dentists etc.) to become good at what they do, but in the end they were empty on the inside and that is what led to their downfall. Proof that $ doesn't buy happiness.
It all comes down to your personal expectations and your personal life experiences. You will ultimately determine how much satisfaction you will have being an optometrist, and it really has nothing to do with $ at the end of the day.

 

[imemily]

Honestly don't understand why dude2011 was banned. By examining the negatives of this profession, I have learned more about it than I would have by working/shadowing at a high end private practice.

I am not pointing out any names but it seems as if most posters here are trying to cover up the blemishes of Optometry. Instead of the usual name calling or questioning ones identity, I think it would be better for this thread and its readers, to argue any claims made against Optometry.

For example, I have asked posters and doctors to refute or perhaps legitimize the claims made in the 2009 best careers article, but that hasn't been done yet. What has been done is name calling/questioning ones identity in regards to their posts and just useless things. Had there been a more constructive discussion we would be well on our way to the next thread.

 

[Taven7755]

Wow....that takes a lot of guts to say what you said, along with more maturity than I likely have. (Evidenced by my dancing bananas) I just don't like how I feel like about 70% of the posts on here are basically to repudiate the musings of some ill-informed jaded bozo that, whomever they all are, brings nothing of value to the table. They write these sophomoric hit-and runs, generalize about total strangers, argue against points no one made, and then abruptly stop commenting when they either get smacked down the argument with facts or banned....

Here is a new rule to go by: anyone that pretends to know your FUTURE state of happiness, regardless of their experience level, is a charlatan ***** that should be marginalized for the joke that they are. This kind of talk about "you won't be happy" is self-serving idiocy at its finest. Does this mean that our profession is perfect, that EVERYONE will love what they do, etc? Of course not....but half-witted drivel about how YOU might feel ten years from now from a total stranger adds nothing for anyone.

Whatever happened to "different strokes for different folks"? Optometry has its downfalls, like everything does (including being rich and famous), and some people are more accepting of these in order to receive the benefits. If helping people in the fashion that we do does not make you happy, no amount of new laws of revamp of managed care will make you get out of bed any quicker in the morning. I have done a lot of MY homework, have MY job procured, and know how happy it will make ME....anyone that expounds to know anything more about "happiness" in the profession is an insecure buffoon and needs to grow up.

But thank you for your last post princeod...that shows a TON of maturity; something we lack a lot of here

sorry, that one was just for me 🙂

 

[Taven7755]

Honestly don't understand why dude2011 was banned. By examining the negatives of this profession, I have learned more about it than I would have by working/shadowing at a high end private practice.

I am not pointing out any names but it seems as if most posters here are trying to cover up the blemishes of Optometry. Instead of the usual name calling or questioning ones identity, I think it would be better for this thread and its readers, to argue any claims made against Optometry.

For example, I have asked posters and doctors to refute or perhaps legitimize the claims made in the 2009 best careers article, but that hasn't been done yet. What has been done is name calling/questioning ones identity in regards to their posts and just useless things. Had there been a more constructive discussion we would be well on our way to the next thread.

Ok, so you see no problem in making generalizations about a career that thousands belong to that no person could possibly know? If I were to go into the D.O. board and write what he wrote, I would be banned right after I wrote it....that is an unprofessional thing to do and adds nothing to the discussion.

And exactly what "points" were you talking about? You mean the hugely profound idea that some people will not like their choice? I doubt anyone needed a nurse with no knowledge of the field to tell them that. I mean, would it be okay for me to go into a software engineers forum and tell them about THEIR profession? I mean this question seriously....does experience or actual time in the field mean nothing? Can I ask a stranger on the street about my profession too? Are his/her points equally valid to DILLIGAF, KHE, or Visionary?

And REALLY, you REALLY think that the docs on here are trying to "coverup" the blemishes? Have you READ anything they put out? I would say, if anything, that they are much more negative than most OD's you would meet in their offices...see any of KHE thousand rants on managed care, or DILLIGAF's dozen or so postings about how little business acumen a lot of graduating OD's have and why this gets them screwed out there in the field...or 20doc20's constant (and very informed, he/she spent decades in corporate and will back it up) ranting against the march of corporate optometry.

If there is ONE thing we don't do here on SDN, or on any internet forum for anything, it is to be too positive.(go lookup a hotel you like and then read the comments...they will all be bad)

Making non-arguments and generalizing in order to be deliberately inflammatory gets you banned. It was well-deserved. If this were a real meeting of people in person, and there were 10 docs and 10 pre-ops or people in op-school in a room....and then a nurse comes in and starts raving about how it REALLY is out there, they would be kindly escorted out and put back on their Lexipro. It was good riddance.

 

[imemily]

Ok, so you see no problem in making generalizations about a career that thousands belong to that no person could possibly know? If I were to go into the D.O. board and write what he wrote, I would be banned right after I wrote it....that is an unprofessional thing to do and adds nothing to the discussion.

And exactly what "points" were you talking about? You mean the hugely profound idea that some people will not like their choice? I doubt anyone needed a nurse with no knowledge of the field to tell them that. I mean, would it be okay for me to go into a software engineers forum and tell them about THEIR profession? I mean this question seriously....does experience or actual time in the field mean nothing? Can I ask a stranger on the street about my profession too? Are his/her points equally valid to DILLIGAF, KHE, or Visionary?

And REALLY, you REALLY think that the docs on here are trying to "coverup" the blemishes? Have you READ anything they put out? I would say, if anything, that they are much more negative than most OD's you would meet in their offices...see any of KHE thousand rants on managed care, or DILLIGAF's dozen or so postings about how little business acumen a lot of graduating OD's have and why this gets them screwed out there in the field...or 20doc20's constant (and very informed, he/she spent decades in corporate and will back it up) ranting against the march of corporate optometry.

If there is ONE thing we don't do here on SDN, or on any internet forum for anything, it is to be too positive.(go lookup a hotel you like and then read the comments...they will all be bad)

Making non-arguments and generalizing in order to be deliberately inflammatory gets you banned. It was well-deserved. If this were a real meeting of people in person, and there were 10 docs and 10 pre-ops or people in op-school in a room....and then a nurse comes in and starts raving about how it REALLY is out there, they would be kindly escorted out and put back on their Lexipro. It was good riddance.

First, I am not trying to argue against you or defend dude. I lightly agree with your conclusions but I don't think this is what happened here. I think dude was presenting the negatives of optometry in a demeaning manner, and thats what caused the defensibility of posters here to rise. I don't think dude ever said he knows the nuts and blots about optometry....its just that many people assumed it because they themselves hadn't a clue about the profession in the first place....this is of course, just speculation based on what I have read in this thread.

Its not like he was generalizing out of the blue...I think that 2009 money article caused him to make these generalizations, along with earlier posts in this thread. Actually, I basically had the same questions as dude (oversupply, debt and the like), but I guess people took it the wrong way and thought that he was criticizing the profession, when in reality he was questioning the validity of statements made in this thread and that 2009 article.

If you look at the 2009 article, I haven't yet completely, attending optometry school is very questionable, or at least scary. I have to admit, I was rattled by some of the comments made by practicing optometrists in that 2009 money article, but I look forward to hearing opinions of practicing doctors who post here as the grass might be greener on the other side.

You have mentioned that you already have an opportunity waiting for you, so maybe your opinions about optometry might be flawed
(the negatives of optometry at least). A new graduate with no job offers lined up who would have to struggle with making tuition repayments would think differently of optometry than yourself.

If I knew I would have to struggle to find a job, would my posts still be geared towards pro-optometry? (the struggling to find a job is all in reference to that article- I personally do not know if an OD has to struggle to make ends meat, but the article along with some of the posts here and the inability of posters to argue against the perceived negatives of Optometry worries me.)

 

[netmag]

Honestly don't understand why dude2011 was banned. By examining the negatives of this profession, I have learned more about it than I would have by working/shadowing at a high end private practice.

I am not pointing out any names but it seems as if most posters here are trying to cover up the blemishes of Optometry. Instead of the usual name calling or questioning ones identity, I think it would be better for this thread and its readers, to argue any claims made against Optometry.

For example, I have asked posters and doctors to refute or perhaps legitimize the claims made in the 2009 best careers article, but that hasn't been done yet. What has been done is name calling/questioning ones identity in regards to their posts and just useless things. Had there been a more constructive discussion we would be well on our way to the next thread.

I would surmise that DudeWhatever/SoCal alias/ etc... was banned because he/she was a troll. You asked for opinions from doctors. Well, Ok then you got some. The troll then proceeded to try to contradict everything each of those people said. It's ok to have a difference of opinion but when your sole purpose is to contradict EVERYTHING that anyone who is trying to help says then I'm sorry but you are a troll and need to be banned. At that point, you're not really helping anyone but yourself and your ego. It's very easy to tell that he/she was a troll. If you couldn't tell, then You just have to scan the list of the user's posts to see that.

I personally think that most things you need to know about these professions are already very apparent (at least in terms of the basics). This site helps to get a different view on some of the details but the trolls try their hardest to hijack conversations that might possibly be useful. Overall, It's hard to take anything read on the internet too seriously. You can get a general feel for the truth through various sources, but trolls exist to try to confuse the issue and if you can't recognize one then you might not want to get any advice from the internet at all. Just stick to talking to people locally who work in that field. To be honest if you need to follow the internet trappings of an obvious troll to make a decision on whether you might like Optometry or not, then you either aren't really interested in the field or have some serious decision making issues. Also, I don't think it's even possible to learn more about a profession on an internet forum than you can learn by shadowing or talking to someone who is in the field directly (to their face). Sorry, but that comment just makes no sense.

Anyone reading these forums is already interested in the field and probably already knows the basics of what it is all about. They just want to know some various inside details. Also, anyone who even takes a cursory look at any of the other forums here already knows that there is no Health Care field that is perfect. Yes, that includes MDs and Nurses. They've got their complaints too and not everyone wants to be an MD or a nurse as shocking as that may sound.

They ALL have some kind of pitfalls.
No school gaurantees anyone employment after you get out.
Almost everything has been affected by the recession to some extent.
Almost all of these professions complain about oversupply. Even dentists are starting to complain a bit about oversupply now (for certain states/areas).
etc...
etc...

The residing theme as that everything has some issues of some sort. That's not in any way to say that I think Optometry as a profession is all that great. There are some legitimate risks to be weighed especially if you've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 of these professions. I'm just saying you have to get info from various sources to make up your own mind. Also, when someone is obviously 99% negative about something, you need to be able to recognize that there's an agenda there and then ignore that person. Even if some of it may be true, it just has to be ignored in terms of useful data. For example, once I identified that SoCal guy as a troll (in my mind), I stopped reading anything he posted from that point. Just started skimming right over it. Same with this DudeWhatever guy. Might be the same guy for all I know but it doesn't really matter if he is or not. Once it became obvious, I just started skipping it. I have no idea what he's said for the last few days but it doesn't matter. Once I tagged him as a troll, it's irrelevant to me. They may have the time to waste posting it, but I'm not going to waste the time to read it.

 

[thecgrblue]

Honestly don't understand why dude2011 was banned. By examining the negatives of this profession, I have learned more about it than I would have by working/shadowing at a high end private practice.

I am not pointing out any names but it seems as if most posters here are trying to cover up the blemishes of Optometry. Instead of the usual name calling or questioning ones identity, I think it would be better for this thread and its readers, to argue any claims made against Optometry.

For example, I have asked posters and doctors to refute or perhaps legitimize the claims made in the 2009 best careers article, but that hasn't been done yet. What has been done is name calling/questioning ones identity in regards to their posts and just useless things. Had there been a more constructive discussion we would be well on our way to the next thread.

You really don't get it do you?

There are no cover-ups trying to take place...what would any of us have to gain from that? If we didn't have a soul we'd be telling you how terrible optometry is along with the rest of them. Why? B/c with one less OD makes for one less person to compete with for a job/patients/etc.

Do you want an answer for everything?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

Nobody wants to take the 2009 article comments seriously, why? Do you really think somebody that starts an "Optometry Sucks" website is really worth your time? We don't bother responding b/c we know that a career is challenging and we are aware of what the challenges in Optometry. The difference between a troll (with OD experience; since anybody with a little keyboard courage, no experience, and free time isn't worth a second of your time) and a poster like KHE, DILLGAF, Ben Chudner, etc., etc. is attitude. When things get difficult instead of pissing in the wind (or on a comment board) and trying to get somebody else to do something about it they get back to work.

You learned more than when you shadowed? Well ask some difficult questions next time you're with a doctor.

 

[Visionary]

I actually would like to admit regret. Regret for writing this post in the first place. I wonder what profession has it good these days? Is it nursing who work long hours on their feet, taking orders from doctors and feeling underappreciated; Is it dentists who make good $ but suffer from back problems and high stress from the pressure of performing highly precise dental procedures. Is it MD's who work 80-100 hour weeks and dedicate their lives to the care of others? Or is it pharmacists who stand on their feet all day, working for corporations, and toiling away behind a counter?
No profession has it "good" if you actively seek out the negative. Heck I can make being a rockstar or movie star a negative if you want. I.e. look at Kurt Cobain or Chris Farley, they had it "all". Fame, $, girls. They "sacrificed" their entire lives to work at their trade. They practiced every day (sound familiar to md's, od's, pharm, dentists etc.) to become good at what they do, but in the end they were empty on the inside and that is what led to their downfall. Proof that $ doesn't buy happiness.
It all comes down to your personal expectations and your personal life experiences. You will ultimately determine how much satisfaction you will have being an optometrist, and it really has nothing to do with $ at the end of the day.

Arguably the best post on this whole God-forsaken thread.

 

[KHE]

When I got on here and saw a line through "DUDE's" name....it reinstituted my faith in SDN.

When he creates ANOTHER avatar (or 3, which I suspect in reading a few other posts), it will reinstitute my faith in stupid.

BUT, this calls for a celebration. PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!

I did not ask for Dude2011 to be banned. However, I did report some of his and socals postings.

Given their recent obnoxious behavior and the fact that they contribute nothing to the discussion, the decision was made to ban them both.

Dude2011's desire to "educate students on career options" is fine and dandy. But it is peculiar that someone with his posting history would take on a mission such as that with as much enthusiasm as it did.

If I were in his shoes, I'd do what I suggested. Throw my hands in the air and say "wow. these kids are *****s. I'm outta here."

But he didn't. He kept on and on and on. That causes me to seriously question his motivation.

I would also like to point out that his IP address was compared to socals and they were found to NOT be the same.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

I did not ask for Dude2011 to be banned. However, I did report some of his and socals postings.

Given their recent obnoxious behavior and the fact that they contribute nothing to the discussion, the decision was made to ban them both.

Dude2011's desire to "educate students on career options" is fine and dandy. But it is peculiar that someone with his posting history would take on a mission such as that with as much enthusiasm as it did.

This does somewhat concern me. I believe students need to hear both sides of the coin about optometry. I've brought up numerous negative aspects of OD school, loans, practice modality, insurance hassles.

I try to respectfully defend my point of view without name calling. I assume this is what got Dude and socal banned.

If I was armed with knowledge that i know now 5 years ago, my life would be more empowered (i.e holding on to a vision plan too long, diligent insurance verification before seeing a patient etc).

200k is a lot to spend on an education, and I hope students acquire information from numerous sources.

Ryan

 

[KHE]

This does somewhat concern me. I believe students need to hear both sides of the coin about optometry. I've brought up numerous negative aspects of OD school, loans, practice modality, insurance hassles.

I try to respectfully defend my point of view without name calling. I assume this is what got Dude and socal banned.

If I was armed with knowledge that i know now 5 years ago, my life would be more empowered (i.e holding on to a vision plan too long, diligent insurance verification before seeing a patient etc).

200k is a lot to spend on an education, and I hope students acquire information from numerous sources.

Ryan

You can easily make lots of negative points about optometry in a coherent manner so that students understand that it's not all curing blindness and getting paid $300,000 to do it.

I've done it myself. I've had a long history of negative posting on this forum. You can search my old posts.

But I like to think that I at least explained myself so that students could understand it. I am/was also a practicing OD. Socal and Dude were not.

 

[imemily]

But, were socal/dude correct or were they just speculating? Socal seems to have more knowledge of the negatives of optometry, whereas dude was just reiterating what socal said.

I really don't care who its coming from, as long as it is true or holds some sort of merit. However, information coming from a practicing professional is quite often, more credible - but that isn't always the case.

 

[KHE]

But, were socal/dude correct or were they just speculating? Socal seems to have more knowledge of the negatives of optometry, whereas dude was just reiterating what socal said.

I really don't care who its coming from, as long as it is true or holds some sort of merit. However, information coming from a practicing professional is quite often, more credible - but that isn't always the case.

Socal brought up some legitimate negatives so in that sense he was "correct." But he made so many errors of fact so many times that he just kept repeating over and over again despite many (myself including) proving to him dozens of times he was incorrect.

He would say things like "you'll only make $15,000 after taxes and loan payments." Completely false. There are many more examples but I won't rehash them. Search out his postings if you must.

Socal was a person who from their posting history it was pretty obvious that they were a marginal candidate who was not admitted to school. Once that happened, they took it upon themselves to just bash away.

So at the end of the day, they were simply a rejected student with an axe to grind. If you want to talk negatives, I'll talk negatives all day long. But I'll help you in a way that socal never could. I'll tell you how to deal with them and/or how to avoid them.

So if you've got questions, start a new thread and we'll get going on the negatives.

 

[IndianaOD]

As an OD for about 5 years now I would honestly not recommend the profession. I think you could do a lot worse than being an OD but I'm not sure the investment is a good one.

It is a shame because ODs get very good training and can be amazing doctors. A good OD is as good or better than any good OMD at all the non-surgical eye care. Good ODs have a very good grasp of the entire visual system above and beyond all the direct anatomy and physiology.

Having said all that I think that oversupply, commercial optometry, and vision plans are crushing this profession. Oversupply being the driving force. Most of the ODs you hear singing the praises of optometry are older established private docs who built their practices in the "golden" ages of optometry. I see pretty frequent posts through our local optometric society of ODs begging for jobs. I feel like most OD students will never get to fully utilize their training.

You can't be "just" a good optometrist and do well. You have to be a good optometrist, stellar people person/personality, amazing business man/woman, and have a fair bit of luck. I log as many or more hours of work per week than the family docs in the area. They don't take call and don't work evenings/weekends. The best thing they have going is they just do their "doctor" job and make a solid living. No pandering for patients and worrying if you weren't perfect enough to keep the patient from going somewhere else next year.

Over the last 4 years I have worked my butt off and built up a solid private practice. My schedule has been booked solid the last 5 months because I give 110% every patient encounter. Its exhausting and I think burnout is pretty easy for an OD. I know for a fact many young ODs struggle and have been far less successful than me. Nothing is perfect but I'd be a dentist or MD specialist if I hit re-wind.

 

[Shnurek]

I personally think the term "optometrist" is antiquated and therefore ODs do not get an accurate public perception. ODs do not just "measure vision". Some ODs have tried to use the term "optometric physician" to refer to themselves but I personally believe "Oculus Doctor" would be most accurate. And it fits in order with the letters OD, unlike "Doctor of Optometry".

Unless this changes and commercial optometry does not thrive with financially indebted new graduates, our profession will have a bleak future. I totally agree with you IndianaOD.

 

[imemily]

I personally think the term "optometrist" is antiquated and therefore ODs do not get an accurate public perception. ODs do not just "measure vision". Some ODs have tried to use the term "optometric physician" to refer to themselves but I personally believe "Oculus Doctor" would be most accurate. And it fits in order with the letters OD, unlike "Doctor of Optometry".

Unless this changes and commercial optometry does not thrive with financially indebted new graduates, our profession will have a bleak future. I totally agree with you IndianaOD.

I don't mean to be rude, but why do you refer to the profession as "our" profession? I just find this recent attitude of pre-optometry students who think they know it all and are part of something they have yet to earn.

 

[Princeod2583]

As an OD for about 5 years now I would honestly not recommend the profession. I think you could do a lot worse than being an OD but I'm not sure the investment is a good one.

It is a shame because ODs get very good training and can be amazing doctors. A good OD is as good or better than any good OMD at all the non-surgical eye care. Good ODs have a very good grasp of the entire visual system above and beyond all the direct anatomy and physiology.

Having said all that I think that oversupply, commercial optometry, and vision plans are crushing this profession. Oversupply being the driving force. Most of the ODs you hear singing the praises of optometry are older established private docs who built their practices in the "golden" ages of optometry. I see pretty frequent posts through our local optometric society of ODs begging for jobs. I feel like most OD students will never get to fully utilize their training.

You can't be "just" a good optometrist and do well. You have to be a good optometrist, stellar people person/personality, amazing business man/woman, and have a fair bit of luck. I log as many or more hours of work per week than the family docs in the area. They don't take call and don't work evenings/weekends. The best thing they have going is they just do their "doctor" job and make a solid living. No pandering for patients and worrying if you weren't perfect enough to keep the patient from going somewhere else next year.

Over the last 4 years I have worked my butt off and built up a solid private practice. My schedule has been booked solid the last 5 months because I give 110% every patient encounter. Its exhausting and I think burnout is pretty easy for an OD. I know for a fact many young ODs struggle and have been far less successful than me. Nothing is perfect but I'd be a dentist or MD specialist if I hit re-wind.

Time to play devils advocate here. Your opinion of optometry is not and cannot be the same as how every working optometrist feels like right now. Again, this relates to life experiences. Let's compare two people shall we. Student A grows up in a household where mom and dad make barely enough to pay the bills. They have no disposable income and barely have enough money to put food on the table. They have lost several homes and are on the verge of losing another/can't make their rent payments. Student A puts the honus on himself/herself to pay for undergrad and grad school while acquiring a high student loan amount. When he/she graduates, he makes enough to live comfortably without the worries he or she faced in childhood. The bare minimum guaranteed is being able to pay student loans every month, monthly bills (food, rent,car) and have little to put aside. Student A participates in loan forgiveness, making the 15% AGI payment put forth by the government and being promised his/her loans will be forgiven in 25 years.
Student B feels entitled. He/she had some help from his/her parents paying for school. His/her parents could pay bills on time and are fairly educated, both holding jobs and high expectations for their kids. Student B dreams of being a successful doctor, and having things guaranteed (at least to a bare minimum of making a six figure income because "I paid 200k for an education"). Student B makes it through school and then the real world hits. I have to work for corporate? I have to work on Saturdays? I didn't sign up for this! Regret ensues and that student remains unhappy for a long time.
My point being your life experiences play a big role in determining your expectations. You cannot expect every person to fall under one category. Since the above doctor is unhappy with his profession, does that mean that you will be unhappy with your profession? Your expectations largely depend on a large variety of factors. To listen to one person's opinion is only doing yourself a disservice. Just ask Student A.