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is this even possible? any advice? both of us are grad students.....
relationship in grad school?
- Thread starter psychh1234
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All things are possible, except slamming a revolving door! If you are both grad students, it may help, may hurt. If you've already established a committed relationship prior to starting grad school, it is a little easier, because the foundation is there, so all you need to do is maintain it. However, starting a new relationship may be a little more work.
Bitter much?😛
Its certainly not easy, but its absolutely possible. The vast majority of students in my program are in relationships. Many are married. Some have children.
I met my girlfriend as a grad student. We made it work. She's living at pretty much the opposite end of the planet for the current year (that's how much I scared her off😉 ) which has somehow simultaneously made things much more difficult, and much easier.
It all depends on how you want to go about your life, and your willingness to "make it work" even in the face of adversity
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Extremely!
But, c'mon, how many possible variables in a relationship must one analyze (that are ever changing) for one to even begin to answer this question? It might work. It might not.
I know folks who have entered graduate programs with non-married partners but were still in "serious" relationships. Some lasted; some did not. I know married folks who entered graduate programs. Some lasted; some did not.
Grad school wreaks havoc on relationships. Hell, the number of times we received "relationship lectures" from various profs in our dept in our first year was semi-amusing. It was right up there with the "look around, not all of you will finish" lecture. Keep in mind that simply because you "love one another" does not mean that you're going to make it through grad school intact. I know folks who ended up choosing between grad school and their relationship. Some people choose grad school; some people chose their relationship.
Now, of course, there are those lucky folks that are able to find someone understanding enough that you may be ignoring them as you dedicate your life to your other partner (i.e., grad school) for the next several years. Then, you've got it made! 😛
It is much easier when they're not around to harass you for not spending every waking moment with them b/c you're in a lab somewhere. 😳
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What is wrong with everyone here? lol
Yes, its doable and I would say advisable, actually. I dated and then married during grad school and found my girlfriend/wife to be an enormous asset in both keeping me sane and motivating me to "get my butt to work." My advisor even hooked us up with the photographer who did her wedding. 🙂
I dont think it is ever healthy to sacrice a meaningful romatic relationship because you want another publication. Thats your choice of course, but those are just messed up priorities in my opinion.
Yes, its doable and I would say advisable, actually. I dated and then married during grad school and found my girlfriend/wife to be an enormous asset in both keeping me sane and motivating me to "get my butt to work." My advisor even hooked us up with the photographer who did her wedding. 🙂
I dont think it is ever healthy to sacrice a meaningful romatic relationship because you want another publication. Thats your choice of course, but those are just messed up priorities in my opinion.
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What is wrong with everyone here? lol
Yes, its doable and I would say advisable, actually. I dated and then married during grad school and found my girlfriend/wife to be an enormous asset in both keeping me sane and motivating me to "get my butt to work." My advisor even hooked us up with the photographer who did her wedding. 🙂
I dont think it is every healthy to sacrice a meaningful romatic relationship because you want another publication. That your choice of course, but those are just messed up priorities in my opinion.
Frakked up childhood. 😀 Otherwise, I'm a bitter, cynical arse.
It does not necessarily have to be another measly publication (I wish I had received publications out of the ordeal.) I was repeatedly refused the opportunity to go home to visit my family (long distance marriage) because my advisor "needed me" to manage her grant. She didn't want me away "this week but maybe in a few weeks" which never seemed to come. Her recommendation was to make phone calls and get a webcam. 🙄 I typically managed see the family a few times each year.
Admittedly, this is on the extreme end of the continuum, but I know of others who had issues with their marital relationships during grad school as well. Some ended the relationship; some ended the stint in grad school (and are much happier for it!).
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This.
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Now, getting slammed in a revolving door...
I agree, but OP asked if it was "even possible." Yes, it's definitely possible. It depends on the personalities of the two people involved, their disciplines, their advisors, their relationship, their families, etc. It's not easy to keep a relationship in tip-top shape under the best of circumstances, and grad school is not the best of circumstances: money is tight, time is tight, and there's always the pressure of outside forces.
If you're taking an established relationship into grad school, try to make sure that the lines of communication are always open and see if you can set expectations as much as possible in advance (e.g., precious time off: how much to in-laws, how much to your family, how much to SLEEP). One thing that worked for us was to reduce our expectations of how much time was spent together, but to increase the quality of it. Spending 30 minutes over lunch without computers/cell phones turned out to be much better than more time that wasn't focused on each other. It takes deliberate consideration for the relationship to keep it working, which is something that we learned the hard way, but thankfully have been able to work out.
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I'm in grad school and I've been in a relationship for a year now. Of course, the person I'm with isn't a grad student or even in my field, which probably helps. But so far my grades and training have not been hurt or compromised.
Anyway, I don't see why you even have to ask yourself if it's an option. People make too big of a deal about it, either it will work out or it won't. This is your life, it isn't on hold while you're in grad school. It's not like we're in prison. You can make a decision to devote some time of your life to interpersonal relationships and you will not be the worse for it if you maintain a good balance.
Of course, if this person is in your dept that could make it more complicated. That IMO would be a reason for hesitation, not the fact that you're a grad student.
Anyway, I don't see why you even have to ask yourself if it's an option. People make too big of a deal about it, either it will work out or it won't. This is your life, it isn't on hold while you're in grad school. It's not like we're in prison. You can make a decision to devote some time of your life to interpersonal relationships and you will not be the worse for it if you maintain a good balance.
Of course, if this person is in your dept that could make it more complicated. That IMO would be a reason for hesitation, not the fact that you're a grad student.
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I have been asked this question before by friends in similar situations.I think it is completely possible. From personal experience, a relationship during grad school can be difficult at times. It definitely takes a great deal of effort and patience on both ends to make it work. I wouldn't trade it for anything, though. I am very fortunate in this area of my life and I realize it.
I think the anticipation of relationship stress leads many people to wait until they graduate before opening themselves up to the possibility. This has its benefits to be sure. I viewed things like this for quite sometime, whether it had to do with relationships or other personal endeavors that were important to me.
However, I have come to the conclusion that if anyone lives that way for too long, they are likely to put important things off for too long. Perhaps, indefinitely, if they are not careful. In our field, there are always pubs, internships, post-doc positions, licensing, and other professional milestones that lie ahead. We could become "personal" procrastinators.
While all of this is going on, life and the rest of the world (oddly enough) move forward. More often than not, things do not follow the schedule we originally developed as undergrads. Internship --> Graduation --> Job --> Relationship --> Family, may not work out in that exact order.
With that in mind, if something worthwhile comes along, we are confronted with a choice point. On the one hand, you can pursue it. You won't know how it will pan out unless you give it a chance. It could be good, it could blow up in your face. The most likely outcome is probably somewhere in the middle. Conversely, we know that it cannot work if we don't give it a chance. If you keep putting things off.....you could miss out on a lot. I am not sure which is more unsettling. I guess it will depend on the person.
I realize that my take on things sounds kind of like a hallmark card and is rather cliche, but its honestly how I see things looking back on how they unfolded for me. To the OP, I hope that things work out for you, regardless of what you decide. Good luck!
I think the anticipation of relationship stress leads many people to wait until they graduate before opening themselves up to the possibility. This has its benefits to be sure. I viewed things like this for quite sometime, whether it had to do with relationships or other personal endeavors that were important to me.
However, I have come to the conclusion that if anyone lives that way for too long, they are likely to put important things off for too long. Perhaps, indefinitely, if they are not careful. In our field, there are always pubs, internships, post-doc positions, licensing, and other professional milestones that lie ahead. We could become "personal" procrastinators.
While all of this is going on, life and the rest of the world (oddly enough) move forward. More often than not, things do not follow the schedule we originally developed as undergrads. Internship --> Graduation --> Job --> Relationship --> Family, may not work out in that exact order.
With that in mind, if something worthwhile comes along, we are confronted with a choice point. On the one hand, you can pursue it. You won't know how it will pan out unless you give it a chance. It could be good, it could blow up in your face. The most likely outcome is probably somewhere in the middle. Conversely, we know that it cannot work if we don't give it a chance. If you keep putting things off.....you could miss out on a lot. I am not sure which is more unsettling. I guess it will depend on the person.
I realize that my take on things sounds kind of like a hallmark card and is rather cliche, but its honestly how I see things looking back on how they unfolded for me. To the OP, I hope that things work out for you, regardless of what you decide. Good luck!
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I'm younger than the other posters, but I've been with my boyfriend for the last 4.5 years and will be starting a doctoral program this fall. We managed long distance for a while, and even when we were both at the same school, he was a computer science major, and, while he was pulling all-night coding sessions, I was working part-time, volunteering, doing internships, working in 3 different labs, and maintaining a 3.9. Right now he lives in another state, works as a software engineer during the day, and just started his own business on the side. Despite working 70+ hours a week, he visits every weekend. When you love someone, are willing to make sacrifices, and are each other's number one priority, you will always make it work. I agree with the previous poster--you will always be busy, there is no "right time" to start a relationship, but if you don't give things a chance (even if they don't work out!), you might miss out on potentially the most important aspect of your life. The key really is balance.
Indeed, don't sh_t where you eat.
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Dating within the program can be ok, assuming you're both mature enough to handle the situation if things "break bad." However, dating within your same lab is when it really starts to get tricky--if it ends up being an adversarial break-up, it's fairly hard to avoid seeing someone with whom you have weekly practicum and research meetings. I've known people who've done it and gone on to have successful marriages, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it.
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I also have the same question. I'm married and my husband will not be moving with me if I get in somewhere out of State. My career is very important to me and don't want to lose a chance to go to a better program just because it's out of State or if that's the only program I get into. So, if I accept the out of State offer=divorce. Has anybody else divorced as a result of going to grad school to pursue your dreams when your spouse don't support the move? Thanks!!
Sigh. That's certainly one take on it. From my personal experiences, it's most certainly doable. If you feel a genuine connection to someone, then I think it'd be terrible to let a potential lifelong partner pass on by just because of a fear like "don't sh_t where you eat". Not only is it not always true, it's also a pretty offensive/graphic description. I've been with my partner for 5 years now and we are in the same cohort of our clinical psychology ph.d. program and wouldn't change those 5 years for anything. I also attended a wedding last year of two of my peers in the program (to each other) and two of our married faculty members met/married/graduated from the same program. So, just at my university there are three examples of successful dating within the same program. I'm not suggesting that these outcomes are the norm, but that it'd be silly to entirely dismiss the possibility of dating in the same program. There are certainly traits/personalities that have helped people maintain these relationships. For instance, my partner and I are exceptionally good at maintaining appropriate boundaries in our personal/professional life, especially in work/learning environments. We're also great communicators and are not prone to being competitive with each other. There are certainly challenges in making the relationship work, but there's also incredible benefits to having the relationship too. Just my two cents.
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Thats a tough situation, sory no hear that.
Sometimes, people's individual goals are just incompatable with marriage...it happens. Its obvious that career is more important to you and that something else is more important to him, and thus prevents him from being willing to sacrfice, compromise, or adjust to a move. If its indeed the case that both partners have other, higher priorities in life, then divorce might be inevitable at some point anyway, even if you weren't moving out of state.
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Just like any relationship, within program relationships have their own unique challenges and rewards. That being said, Like Lchow stated, plenty of successful partnerships develop within the department. Personally, I have observed three successful marriages between couples where both partners were in the program. I have also seen one relationship blow up, which rippled through the department. So, like most things in life, it can really depend on the context and the individuals whether this is a good idea or not.
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I'd say dating is totally doable, and even healthy, if you have a supportive and understanding partner. The ex I had as an undergrad definitely gave me problems in school, due to stress with him, fights leading to lack of concentration, complaints about time constraints, etc. But my current boyfriend is an amazing example of a healthy support system. By him being in medical school, he understands school comes first, and quality of time is more important than quantity. He's definitely keeping me sane!
To the lady pondering divorce over programs - I was in your shoes. I think you need to ask yourself WHY automatically you think it would end in divorce? Anyone would have a hard time, but jumping to divorce as the option might mean there are some other problems. But if you believe that staying local will keep your marriage, think about whether a more prestigious school is really worth the marriage. School name matters, but your research output will matter more, and you're probably be more successful if you're not being distracted by divorce proceedings. But also, why can't he move? If he's locked in due to being in his own grad program, thats one thing. But a job? Psh, tell him to start looking where you're going!
To the lady pondering divorce over programs - I was in your shoes. I think you need to ask yourself WHY automatically you think it would end in divorce? Anyone would have a hard time, but jumping to divorce as the option might mean there are some other problems. But if you believe that staying local will keep your marriage, think about whether a more prestigious school is really worth the marriage. School name matters, but your research output will matter more, and you're probably be more successful if you're not being distracted by divorce proceedings. But also, why can't he move? If he's locked in due to being in his own grad program, thats one thing. But a job? Psh, tell him to start looking where you're going!
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We don't all of the poster's circumstances, but I can somewhat relate as I have been in a similar situation. As for husband up and moving for a job, that's not necessarily as easy as it sounds, especially in this day & age. What if he's already well-established in his career/field? If he's willing to take ANY job and/or take a massive paycut, then yes, it MAY be doable, but even that's not a guarantee that he's going to find a job. If his career's just as important to him, or if they need to rely on his income, or if there simply isn't employment in the area, then you cannot force a position to magically appear. If by sheer luck one or two or half a dozen do pop up, you can almost guarantee that there are likely to be a couple hundred other people applying for the same position. I'm not saying it's a lost cause. I'm not saying they shouldn't try. But, telling someone that her spouse should suck it up and find a job wherever is a bit nearsighted.
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I may be a bit biased due to past experiences 🙄 It's definitely difficult to have two career oriented people in a relationship though. But, completely just my opinion, I would assume people in happy relationship would try to work it out via long-distance rather than jump to the assumption of divorce? I'm definitely a romantic though 😍 Hopefully she gets into a school nearby so it doesn't come to that situation. I'd say that's been the hardest part about applying outside my area, is the fact I would have to leave my boyfriend (he's in residency here), even though he could join me eventually. But I guess in academia we have to be portable . . .
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Also admittedly biased due to past experiences. I agree that there can be two career oriented people in a relationship. I also agree that people can attempt the long distance relationship thing, but it depends upon the partners and all the factors involved. How long of a distance? How often does your program "allow" visitation rights?
Is your partner/child(ren) understanding of the arrangement? Are you able to handle the separation? Are you financially able to maintain separate residences while all this is going on? Does one do the long distance thing indefinitely, or attempt to make plans to join up in grad school eventually (especially knowing that one will then have to turn around & relocate yet again for internship, possibly again for post doc, and so on & so forth)? At what point does one decide that the long distance thing just isn't worth it, or that if one has decided to "join forces" at 'x' date and those attempts continuously fail, then one calls it quits?I doubt that married partners in any relationship (I HOPE!) would automatically contemplate divorce due to a grad school acceptance before considering other options. However, there are a lot of factors that must be weighed and discussed by both partners as to their importance if they're going to make it work. Although one partner may be supportive of the other in the beginning, the grad student may start losing that support over the years as the stress starts to wear on both of them (again, dependent upon the situational factors in their specific scenario). Perhaps it will work out just merrily for them!
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How do they expect people to have families in academia? I really wonder that sometimes. If you have to move for PhD, internship, post doc, then a job, how the heck are you supposed to have a life outside of it, unless you're a guy with a trophy wife that can follow you around? Other than people that put their foot down and refuse to move, I really have no idea how it's done.
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We have students in our programs with families. Of course, those who decide to have children are frowned upon by others in the program because they are perceived by other students as receiving special privileges. In the meantime, these individuals also tend to take longer to complete the program, if they end up completing the program at all, and they tend to restrict themselves geographically for internship applications (which may have affected their match rates). For the most part, the faculty seems to support them, although the time to graduation, drop outs, and internship match may be biting us in the ass at our upcoming APA site review (granted, these aren't the only students affecting those stats). It IS certainly possible; it's just not very easy. 😎
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It's certainly possible, though not easy. And it definitely can be done without having a "trophy" spouse or without refusing to move. Although I can't speak to the children issue, I can speak to the marriage issue. It requires a lot of compromise, and sacrifice. But that is what most relationships require in and out of academics. Although, I do think academia in this field imposes a special kind of stress on a relationship, it can be done!
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Agreed. Probably half of my classmates in the program here are married or engaged, or become so while in school. They definitely have to make sacrifices, but their significant others/spouses all seem to be very supportive, and for the most part attempt to move about the country with them.
Children can definitely complicate things, though, to be sure. None of the other students here seem to resent people having children, but some of the professors don't always like it when their students unexpectedly become pregnant. It's not a matter of special treatment, but one of then requiring a set amount of time off and an increased likelihood of leaving the program altogether. To the best of my knowledge, I can only remember one person leaving due to family/children issues, but I don't think it'd be unfair to say that becoming pregnant and having children during grad school is frowned upon overall.
Once school is finished and the individual enters academia, though, the environment seems very family-friendly.
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Thank you all for your posts! He was supportive at first( we talked about it prior to getting married), but this is not the first time I've applied and I feel like I've used up all of the " support tokens" 😉. He has a really good job and makes good money. The out of state program does not offer any jobs or anything for him. There are other factors ( certainly I wouldn't jump to divorce if I was in a happy marriage and go out of state). The in state program is not less prestigious - it's just not accredited. What do I do if I get into both of them? Or either of them.
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You're in a tough pickle! I can certainly empathize with you, and I feel you on using up those support tokens.
There is definitely a difference, in my opinion, between "prestige" and non-accredited. If I were to get accepted into both, then I personally would go for the accredited program. There are entirely too many problems you will potentially, hell, that you will face with a non-accredited program (see other threads for those discussions). If you get into neither of them, and this isn't your first application cycle, then I suppose you need to reassess what it is you want to do and how realistic it is that you are able to do it. Let's face it, not everyone is able to do anything they want and be anything they want to be, regardless of what their teachers/parents tell them. Now, maybe that's not the case with you, in which case, then you need to figure out where the weaknesses are in your application and how you can address them . . . or even IF you want to address them if the end result is the dissolution of your marriage/family. Determine your priorities and go from there.
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Frowned upon? Seriously, what kind of people are these.
My wife and I hosted the shower and often babysit for one of the new moms in our program. We have decided to wait, but certainly don't have a problems with Katrina's decision. And believe me, she doesn't get special privileges (everyone body wants to hold the baby though). She took her year off for maternity leave and is back "burning the midnight oil." Im actually jealous of her ability to juggle things and still be productive. If anything, I have lost some of my passion and commitment to the work during my time in grad school.
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Frowned upon? Seriously, what kind of people are these.
We have some extremely judgmental whackos in our program.
If you don't fit their idea of what a graduate student "should be," then you may as well not be there. We had a few of them actually tell the department recently that they (the dept) should start relying more heavily upon student opinions for admission decisions because they can tell who will and won't make it in the program. They allegedly could have predicted everyone who has left the program over the past few years because "they all had personal issues we knew about beforehand." Nevermind that not all of those individuals had "personal issues," or of those individuals who did experience personal difficulties, they were contributed to by nitwits in the dept, but, meh . . . To them, it's a damned popularity contest. They know best, and you NEED to listen to them. And then my past/current advisors, the DCT, etc., wonder why I "like to fly under the radar." 🙄
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We have some extremely judgmental whackos in our program.
Is your cohort particularly young? This might be one the reason for the differences I am hearing about
Our cohort isn't particular old (mostly late 20s and a couple early 30s) but majority are married and fairly domesticated.We have actually joked that we have a bunch of Don Drapers in our program... in the sense that we all hang out, party and drink together from time to time, but no one asks too many questions and no one talks excessively about their personal lives or what goes on at home. You just do your job, have some fun, and go home.
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Is your cohort particularly young? This might be one the reason for the differences I am hearing about
We have actually joked that we have a bunch of Don Drapers in our program... in the sense that we all hang out, party and drink together from time to time, but no one asks too many questions and no one talks excessively about their personal lives or what goes on at home. You just do your job, have some fun, and go home.
I edited my post to add some info, but you beat me in responding, so I re-edited to post it here.
I think most of our students start out largely supportive (of at least the folks in their 'cliques'), although there are certainly still whackos among the cohorts, but they only start to grow truly "resentful" of other folks (e.g., the students with children who they perceive to have extra "benefits") after they're about halfway through the program when they decide that they know better than everyone else. Then there seems to be some movement in who truly supports who around here.
A LOT of the students across all of our cohorts are especially young. I chuckle when I see people say/post that folks don't get accepted immediately out of undergrad because that doesn't seem to be the typical experience around here. I feel like I'm surrounded by children most of the time. Hell, there are students in multiple cohorts ahead of me that are younger than me (and right now, probably a few faculty not too much older), and I tend not to have the patience for their shenanigans. I tried, but I gave up long ago. I grew tired of dealing with people who have the emotional maturity of my child, and who repeatedly criticize me and/or attempt to screw me over every chance they get (whether it be intentional or not). I let them do their thing, and I do my thing. I'm also repeatedly criticized (by faculty) for being evasive about my personal life, and, unfortunately for them, they can't use their student spies to dig out the info either.
Your program sounds positively delightful! I only wish I didn't have to hear about the incessant prattling of the gal who is "OMG! We're EXCLUSIVE!" one month and then not the next, and then learning a valuable life lesson the next and EXCLUSIVE! again the next. 🙄 Everyone acts as if they need full disclosure about absolutely everything around here.
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I edited my post to add some info, but you beat me in responding, so I re-edited to post it here.
I think most of our students start out largely supportive (of at least the folks in their 'cliques'), although there are certainly still whackos among the cohorts, but they only start to grow truly "resentful" of other folks (e.g., the students with children who they perceive to have extra "benefits") after they're about halfway through the program when they decide that they know better than everyone else. Then there seems to be some movement in who truly supports who around here.
A LOT of the students across all of our cohorts are especially young. I chuckle when I see people say/post that folks don't get accepted immediately out of undergrad because that doesn't seem to be the typical experience around here. I feel like I'm surrounded by children most of the time. Hell, there are students in multiple cohorts ahead of me that are younger than me (and right now, probably a few faculty not too much older), and I tend not to have the patience for their shenanigans. I tried, but I gave up long ago. I grew tired of dealing with people who have the emotional maturity of my child, and who repeatedly criticize me and/or attempt to screw me over every chance they get (whether it be intentional or not). I let them do their thing, and I do my thing. I'm also repeatedly criticized (by faculty) for being evasive about my personal life, and, unfortunately for them, they can't use their student spies to dig out the info either.
Your program sounds positively delightful! I only wish I didn't have to hear about the incessant prattling of the gal who is "OMG! We're EXCLUSIVE!" one month and then not the next, and then learning a valuable life lesson the next and EXCLUSIVE! again the next. 🙄 Everyone acts as if they need full disclosure about absolutely everything around here.
Hmm..yea, def an age thing I think, especially in regards to the the last paragraph. Although you would think that grad students would be a little more mature at that age than the average person. And, are you saying the faculty actually criticizes you openly for being a little more private than the average student? What the heck do they want to know? Perhaps they need to be reminded that or 40 years ago, not talking much about ones personal life at work was a sign of maturity, and actually, was viewed as quite an admiral and humble quality to posses.
I actually do have quite close relationship with my advisor, but she that is by choice and not pressure. We actually dont see each other more than a couple times a week anyway anymore
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Yes, it is possible. I have to echo the sentiment explained previously by others, though... starting a brand new relationship with someone from your lab might not be the most advisable thing. I have seen this situation turn incredibly, horribly awkward for those involved, especially when one of the injured parties then began dating another person in the program. So I'd be much, much more cautious in these circumstances. Use some good 'ol self-restraint and get to know each other more on a friend level before diving into dating territory.
As I was reading these posts, I found another thought coming to mind... grad school is like a job (and an incredibly stressful and time-consuming one at that). And hopefully, we will all be continuing in those job-like pursuits for the next 20-30 years. As such, we have to learn to balance personal and professional lives at some point. So this may be the time that you do that for yourself.
I have been in a serious relationship for the past few years, and it has been tough but awesome all in one. I have found myself having to learn to balance the personal and professional. What does that mean? Being flexible and setting boundaries. If I tell my boyfriend we're going out on Friday night, I'm not bailing to work on a manuscript. By the same token, if I need to change plans during the week, he is often understanding. We made it work because we were both flexible during the week and set boundaries to protect our weekend time. We have constant communication about this, and if one of us is disappointed, we make it up. This relationship has been my greatest source of strength in my program. He has provided a great sense of stability in my life, when things were constantly changing (placements, classes, labmates, etc.). Additionally, in learning how to achieve more balance in my relationship, I was forced to grow up. It helped me stay out of a lot of the drama that a lot of my single classmates seemed to roll around in.
Ultimately, it's like I told my mother when defending myself because I really, really wanted to adopt a puppy: There's no perfect time to get a dog. In turn, there may not really be a perfect time to start a new relationship. But if that right person comes along, and you're closed off to it because we're in grad school, you might miss out on something great.
As I was reading these posts, I found another thought coming to mind... grad school is like a job (and an incredibly stressful and time-consuming one at that). And hopefully, we will all be continuing in those job-like pursuits for the next 20-30 years. As such, we have to learn to balance personal and professional lives at some point. So this may be the time that you do that for yourself.
I have been in a serious relationship for the past few years, and it has been tough but awesome all in one. I have found myself having to learn to balance the personal and professional. What does that mean? Being flexible and setting boundaries. If I tell my boyfriend we're going out on Friday night, I'm not bailing to work on a manuscript. By the same token, if I need to change plans during the week, he is often understanding. We made it work because we were both flexible during the week and set boundaries to protect our weekend time. We have constant communication about this, and if one of us is disappointed, we make it up. This relationship has been my greatest source of strength in my program. He has provided a great sense of stability in my life, when things were constantly changing (placements, classes, labmates, etc.). Additionally, in learning how to achieve more balance in my relationship, I was forced to grow up. It helped me stay out of a lot of the drama that a lot of my single classmates seemed to roll around in.
Ultimately, it's like I told my mother when defending myself because I really, really wanted to adopt a puppy: There's no perfect time to get a dog. In turn, there may not really be a perfect time to start a new relationship. But if that right person comes along, and you're closed off to it because we're in grad school, you might miss out on something great.
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Obviously, only you (and your spouse) can make this decision, but personally, I think a non-accredited versus accredited program is a huge issue. The decision to attend an unaccredited clinical psychology program comes with a lot of consequences that you might not be able to see at the application stage. This is a good time to do some homework. Why is the program unaccredited? How long has the program existed? Do they plan to become accredited? If they are going to attempt to become accredited, how likely are they to be successful and when do they plan to do this? Frankly (and I'm truly not trying to be rude or mean) but I would seriously consider changing careers before I would consider attending a clinical psychology program that is not likely to ever be accredited.
Sounds about right!
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I know it has already been said here several times, but I'd like to echo my support for the idea that it is possible, and in some ways beneficial, to date from within the same program. My fiance and I met in my program (we are in the same year) when I was, at the time, dating someone else. That first relationship ended because of distance and a whole host of other reasons. But my fiance and I started dating in our second year, and now in our fourth year are engaged. It was great to have the support of someone who knew exactly what I was going through. We would talk about the things that bugged us about our program, classes, etc. We also were able to consult about clients on practicum, since we were both in different areas (me college counseling and her VA hospital) which allowed for a more diverse viewpoints. It certainly isn't all rainbows and flowers, especially with that whole internship thing happening right now, but we made a commitment to do the couples match and to try and make it work.
I think it takes a special sort of relationship to be able to handle all the stresses of grad school and being around each other all the time. That being said, it is certainly possible. There have been several other marriages from within my program over the past few years, so it is not unheard of.
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No doubt many within-cohort relationships fail in graduate programs. But...a lot of relationships fail in other demographics as well. Not sure what the numbers pan out to be, but I have to wonder if we end up focusing on the bad examples that stand out in our head and let that skew our views.
That being said, perhaps I let a good example skew my own beliefs. I met my wife during our first year of grad school - same cohort - and we have been happily married for the past three years and have a soon to be one year old child. Without question, we're strained for time and live a fairly chaotic life right now, but it works with us. We've set it up such that I'm on internship now and she will be completing hers next year. Ultimately, for this kind of thing to work out - and again, this probably isn't much different from other situations - you simply need to be on the same page in terms of communicating goals, making sacrifices to fit one another's needs, and making sure you have the right balance in things.
Not sure if that was helpful at all, but thought I'd at least throw another positive response into the mix to consider.
That being said, perhaps I let a good example skew my own beliefs. I met my wife during our first year of grad school - same cohort - and we have been happily married for the past three years and have a soon to be one year old child. Without question, we're strained for time and live a fairly chaotic life right now, but it works with us. We've set it up such that I'm on internship now and she will be completing hers next year. Ultimately, for this kind of thing to work out - and again, this probably isn't much different from other situations - you simply need to be on the same page in terms of communicating goals, making sacrifices to fit one another's needs, and making sure you have the right balance in things.
Not sure if that was helpful at all, but thought I'd at least throw another positive response into the mix to consider.
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I understand way too well about the "support tokens!" I knew my ex and I would be over due to that, lol. I wish you the best of luck!! Accreditation is a big factor though. Are you interested in clinical or research work? If you're interested in clinical, maybe a PhD in counseling psych or PsyD might work? Those tend to be a lot less competitive that Clinical Psych PhDs, and you could stay closer to home!
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You've obviously never met the girls from my program.
"To catch a husband is an art; to hold him is a job."
-Simone de Beauvoir
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No, no, no! I think that I've seen this statement made (and discounted by other members in other threads previously), but please stop posting this advice as this is not necessarily the case. I understand that you likely mean well but counseling psych programs often are just as competitive as clinical psych programs and require research, just like clinical programs.
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Each relationship has a different dynamic and no two couples will handle the situations in grad school in exactly the same way. Relationships can and do survive in all different types of situations from military deployment (which is painful and draining), to graduate school and beyond. Life is messy and unpredictable and things don't always go as planned, however having someone in your corner when times get rough...that's a wonderful thing.
Not all relationships will survive, and I think everyone needs to make their choice as to the amount of time and energy they are willing to put into it during a very stressful time of their lives.
Doctoral programs in counseling psychology are not a lot less competitive than clinical programs (some are just as or more so) and they too require a notable amount of research prior to and during grad school. Despite the name, this is not merely a "counseling" focused field as compared to clinical psych, it a different focus entirely.
AB🙂
Not all relationships will survive, and I think everyone needs to make their choice as to the amount of time and energy they are willing to put into it during a very stressful time of their lives.
Doctoral programs in counseling psychology are not a lot less competitive than clinical programs (some are just as or more so) and they too require a notable amount of research prior to and during grad school. Despite the name, this is not merely a "counseling" focused field as compared to clinical psych, it a different focus entirely.
AB🙂
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so...
i am waiting on my last place to hear from for schools - and my boyfriend of 4 years is very concerned about being able to find a job there. i think it is way easier to find a job than get into grad school so he should be able to, but i also don't want him to be miserable in a place just to be with me. long distance is super hard - especially for 5 years in a row during grad school, during our 20s. has anyone made this work? is it worth it? i would never want him to sacrifice a good job for me but i want nothing more than for us to live together next year. obviously if i get in, i can't turn grad school down. and i would hate for grad school to be the reason for breaking up.
i am waiting on my last place to hear from for schools - and my boyfriend of 4 years is very concerned about being able to find a job there. i think it is way easier to find a job than get into grad school so he should be able to, but i also don't want him to be miserable in a place just to be with me. long distance is super hard - especially for 5 years in a row during grad school, during our 20s. has anyone made this work? is it worth it? i would never want him to sacrifice a good job for me but i want nothing more than for us to live together next year. obviously if i get in, i can't turn grad school down. and i would hate for grad school to be the reason for breaking up.
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I totally didn't mean this in an offensive manner. In no way am I comparing the two in terms of training or anything like that, but from what I know (which is admittedly not too much) their acceptance rates, at least around the area I'm in, are a bit higher than the 2-5% than I've seen at most of the schools I've applied to. I know that they involve solid training in research though! Also, even in the case that the rates are the same, if applying to both clinical and counseling programs in her area, she's more likely to be able to get in and stay in the area with her husband. Win win
Psychgirl, it all depends on his field. I'd say have him start looking at jobs. Job hunting takes time and planning, just like grad school apps. Also remember that you may have to move again for internship and post doc. Will he be okay with being that portable? I do have 2 friends that are in long distance relationships because of grad school. The one with her MSW seems not to see her BF very often, but it's less time. The one in her PhD program and her boyfriend have some good money, so they fly back and forward all of the time. But also, just let me say from personal experience that sometimes the whole not wanting to move thing is just an excuse, a sign a relationship is not on the commitment track. Not for everyone, but maybe consider that.
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What are your thoughts on a Boston - NYC long distance relationship? What will help to make it work? Thanks!!
I actually do this now. My girlfriend is in a clinical phd program in NY and I'm in Boston (though will be moving next fall to an, as of yet, undetermined place for a clinical phd program). In my experience, it's been totally doable. Boston is only 3 hours away from NYC and there are buses that run back and forth for as little as $1 if you book far enough in advance. The great thing about taking the bus is that it allows us to get work done while traveling so we aren't really missing much.
I imagine it will get a bit more difficult once we start seeing patients, but for now, it seems to be going fine. Obviously, you'll have to deal with the general difficulty of doing distance, but Boston to NYC is one of the better combinations in my opinion.
EDIT: To answer you question about what will help make it work, I'd say planning and compromise. We set up a schedule to visit each other and are usually able to make it every week to every other week. Also, compromising in the sense that one person may have to visit the other more frequently due to lab commitments, patients, etc. Skype often, make friends where you live that are supportive, and see each other as much as possible.
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Thanks, psyched27. Skype will definitely come in handy!
