Repeating A year

[QTpieDMD]

Okay folks, lemme ask a question.

I'm not in this situation at all but my dental school has this option (well not by choice) for some students with academic problems to repeat a year. I heard about this happening to some students and it made me absolutely infuriated. I mean these folks are hard workers that messed up in like 2 out of 21 classes, not that that's wonderful academic progrss. But still, repeating an entire year? No credit for any of the other classes with good grades or anything. They even have a 5-year deceleration program, but some students weren't even offered this option. Someone, tell me what you think.

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[Bickle]

Okay folks, lemme ask a question.

I'm not in this situation at all but my dental school has this option (well not by choice) for some students with academic problems to repeat a year. I heard about this happening to some students and it made me absolutely infuriated. I mean these folks are hard workers that messed up in like 2 out of 21 classes, not that that's wonderful academic progrss. But still, repeating an entire year? No credit for any of the other classes with good grades or anything. They even have a 5-year deceleration program, but some students weren't even offered this option. Someone, tell me what you think.

Yeah, I agree that kinda sucks. But I guess in the long run, one more year wont really matter.

 

[unlvdmd]

I have a hard time with this issue. I think dental school and undergrad are on two different planets. The people who "don't do well" obviously interviewed well and did good in undergrad (and probably got lucky on the DAT). But for some reason they can't make it in dental school. I personally think that if they can't cut it (grade wise), then they shouldn't be sticking needles in people's faces PLUS making decisions on their healthcare.

 

[runfast520]

don't forget affirmative action can get you in, but not pass the class for you, even though at my school these people seem to get multiple and multiple breaks before the boot finally comes

 

[Bickle]

don't forget affirmative action can get you in, but not pass the class for you,

Unless you have connections with upperclassmen who will

a) give old notes to you and ONLY you
b) give old, unreleased exams to you and ONLY you
c) give old projects to you and ONLY you
d) hell, screw giving you old projects, half the time they'll do the projects for you
e) all of the above

I've seen this many many times, and while I hate to say it, its always a racial thing. If your a certain color coming in, you'll have these underground connections straight from the shoot.

 

[drben]

Unless you have connections with upperclassmen who will

a) give old notes to you and ONLY you
b) give old, unreleased exams to you and ONLY you
c) give old projects to you and ONLY you
d) hell, screw giving you old projects, half the time they'll do the projects for you
e) all of the above

I've seen this many many times, and while I hate to say it, its always a racial thing. If your a certain color coming in, you'll have these underground connections straight from the shoot.

Yeah, I noticed that all those white people tend to stick together...gimme a break dude HOW can you make a statement like this on a PUBLIC forum? Oh wait, nevermind you can hide behind "Bickle".

Ben

 

[Bickle]

Yeah, I noticed that all those white people tend to stick together...gimme a break dude HOW can you make a statement like this on a PUBLIC forum? Oh wait, nevermind you can hide behind "Bickle".

Ben

Sorry to have offended you, but once you get into a dental school you'll understand. I'm just telling you what i've experienced. Not only things like this, but you'll find that there are many corrupt things that go on in dental schools, such as students having to pay off patients to show up for NERBS.

 

[Blue Tooth]

Hey Bickle, real quick I'd remove that entire post before Dr. Ben sees it. If I were a practicing orthodontist like him who has jumped through all the hoops, and some freaking D2 at tufts tried to enlighten me, it'd be on like donkey kong

 

[Bickle]

Hey Bickle, real quick I'd remove that entire post before Dr. Ben sees it. If I were a practicing orthodontist like him who has jumped through all the hoops, and some freaking D2 at tufts tried to enlighten me, it'd be on like donkey kong

Thanks for the heads up. Orthodontist or not, I'm just posting what i've seen and what i've experienced. DrBen can have his own opion as well, hes entitled to it, as am I.

 

[DcS]

I've seen this many many times, and while I hate to say it, its always a racial thing. If your a certain color coming in, you'll have these underground connections straight from the shoot.

There is nothing racist with this statement at all people, relax. It is a statement, and I can tell you in my school it is also true. It is no reflection on my opinions, just a reality.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I have a hard time with this issue. I think dental school and undergrad are on two different planets. The people who "don't do well" obviously interviewed well and did good in undergrad (and probably got lucky on the DAT). But for some reason they can't make it in dental school. I personally think that if they can't cut it (grade wise), then they shouldn't be sticking needles in people's faces PLUS making decisions on their healthcare.

I 100% disagree with the statement that if they can't cut it grade wise they shouldn't be sticking needles in people's faces, etc., etc.

Most of the didactic stuff in dental school is of minimal value on a daily basis, and certainly a mastery of the didactics does NOT make someone an excellent clinician nor dentist.

I believe the lab/bench couses to be very important, but I also know that the grading of such projects and labwork can often be absolutely mind-boggling and backwards to what it really ought to be. Are the instructors grading her work or her cup size? Seriously.

 

[ItsGavinC]

There is nothing racist with this statement at all people, relax. It is a statement, and I can tell you in my school it is also true. It is no reflection on my opinions, just a reality.

I agree. It's almost humorous how easily offended people are. Guess what? We're all entitled to opinions. That does NOT make somebody racist.

And I agree with the above statement as well.

 

[lnn2]

Are the instructors grading her work or her cup size? Seriously.

I sure hope not her cup size because an A grade is not good if that's the case! I prefer Cs and Ds plus sizes

 

[lnn2]

its always a racial thing. If your a certain color coming in, you'll have these underground connections straight from the shoot.

then you should start hooking up with that certain color coming in! color or not, I love all of the women just the same

 

[Bickle]

then you should start hooking up with that certain color coming in! color or not, I love all of the women just the same

just to clarify, i wasnt singling out any particular group, what i've seen is all across the board.

 

[unlvdmd]

I 100% disagree with the statement that if they can't cut it grade wise they shouldn't be sticking needles in people's faces, etc., etc.

Most of the didactic stuff in dental school is of minimal value on a daily basis, and certainly a mastery of the didactics does NOT make someone an excellent clinician nor dentist.

I believe the lab/bench couses to be very important, but I also know that the grading of such projects and labwork can often be absolutely mind-boggling and backwards to what it really ought to be. Are the instructors grading her work or her cup size? Seriously.

Of course you don't have to be an ace at didactics to "be a dentist." It is VERY easy to drill, fill & bill with nearly getting the boot every semester. But the difference between those kinds of dentists and the ones who do well academically are in the quality of care they can provide. Everyone will be able to do the drill, fill & bill routine, but not everyone can CORRECTLY dx pathology and not screw pts cases up in terms of TMJ/Occlusion/technical aspects. Granted, both have the same degree, but I sure as hell will want to go to a provider that won't mis-diagnose my oral cancer cause they skipped that chapter to just get a C.

 

[drben]

I agree. It's almost humorous how easily offended people are. Guess what? We're all entitled to opinions. That does NOT make somebody racist.

And I agree with the above statement as well.

You're right Gavin, we are all entitled to our opinions...I happen to think that making devicive comments in this day and age is irresponsible. Anytime a statement is distilled to "I hate to make this a racial thing but..." it begins to smack of "racism" anyway you look at it

Ben

 

[Demeter]

I 100% disagree with the statement that if they can't cut it grade wise they shouldn't be sticking needles in people's faces, etc., etc.

Most of the didactic stuff in dental school is of minimal value on a daily basis, and certainly a mastery of the didactics does NOT make someone an excellent clinician nor dentist.

Well, I do not agree with that statement. There were times when I complained about having to learn some useless minutua of biochem, but mastery of the didactics certainly plays a major part in becoming and excellent clinician. Although most cases you will become involved with will quickly become routine, it is for those few complex cases that your didactic education will be necessary. Like the 1 time someone comes in Squamous Cell Carcinoma.

I had 2 very good friends that failed out of Dental School because of oral Path. one of them had incredible hand skills. I felt horrible when I found out that was getting the boot from Dental School. He could cut a prep and fill it during half of the time it took the rest of our class. BUT, we have to maintain a minimum academic standard, which is usually 70%. Being a Dentist is different from a mechanic. If you can't master 70% of the material covered in Pathology or Anatomy you should not be able to progress. There just has to be definite line; a minimum standard, otherwise we keep lowering the bar.

 

[unlvdmd]

There just has to be definite line; a minimum standard, otherwise we keep lowering the bar.

WELL PUT!! I agree 100% .

 

[aphistis]

Most of the didactic stuff in dental school is of minimal value on a daily basis, and certainly a mastery of the didactics does NOT make someone an excellent clinician nor dentist.

No, but abject ignorance DOES mean you'll be a lousy doctor. To reframe your logic, being able to place amalgam (oops, sorry--I mean resin ) effectively in a prep doesn't make you good at operative; but being unable place a direct restoration *does* mean you'll be bad at it, no matter how good your preps are.

 

[Dental08?09]

... I heard about this happening to some students and it made me absolutely infuriated. I mean these folks are hard workers that messed up in like 2 out of 21 classes....

And people complain about NYU's strict policy???? This is insane. Atleast NYU lets you repeat 3 or 4 failed classes before you repeat a year.

 

[chadDMD]

Sorry to have offended you, but once you get into a dental school you'll understand. I'm just telling you what i've experienced. Not only things like this, but you'll find that there are many corrupt things that go on in dental schools, such as students having to pay off patients to show up for NERBS.

I'm with you on that Bickle. This person has no clue about dental school politics. It is a dirty game. Hopefully he'll shut his mouth and experience it himself.

 

[toofache32]

..I happen to think that making devicive comments in this day and age is irresponsible.

Devicive between what races? I don't know which races are being referred to. It's probably those Crackers again.

 

[ItsGavinC]

No, but abject ignorance DOES mean you'll be a lousy doctor. To reframe your logic, being able to place amalgam (oops, sorry--I mean resin ) effectively in a prep doesn't make you good at operative; but being unable place a direct restoration *does* mean you'll be bad at it, no matter how good your preps are.

Define "being unable to place a direct restoration". Do you actually know people that are unable to do so?

That isn't exactly the pinnacle of difficulty.

I'm also curious as to how you see didactic coursework, or simulation lab coursework relating to actually placing a direct restoration in a patient. I see minimal relation in those activities.

It's in the clinic where I learned that I"ll never see the stuff I was asked to do in the simlab. Well, not never, but rarely.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but I always chuckle at those who claim that dental school is difficult. It simply isn't. Time consuming? Perhaps. A pain in the arse? Yes, quite possibly. Difficult? Not at all. The material isn't hard and practice makes perfect with clinical procedures. It seems as though who claim dental school to be difficult, believe that doing so makes them more worthy individuals. For better or for worse, my personal view of myself doesn't hinge upon my degrees, nor will it ever. I know you feel the same about that.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Devicive between what races? I don't know which races are being referred to. It's probably those Crackers again.

My financial aid guy is the most niggardly guy I know.

 

[mzalendo]

My financial aid guy is the most niggardly guy I know.

is that so

 

[Demeter]

During an Endo lecture I saw a pano of a guy with 28 Root canals.
His Dentist misdiagnosed a patients oral path for 28 LEO's (lesions of endodontic origin).
The root canals were done perfectly; well condensed, no short fills. The Diagnosis was not so good.
Tell the poor guy with 28 unnecessary Root Canals that didactics are not really that important. We just need to drill and fill anyway, right?
I could probably teach a monkey to fill a tooth, but that does not make him a Dr.

 

[insipedious]

don't forget affirmative action can get you in, but not pass the class for you, even though at my school these people seem to get multiple and multiple breaks before the boot finally comes

i am alittle confused here!

when you say affirmative action can get you in --> which group are you reffering to, Blacks, hispanics, asians or all

I just finished my first year, from a minority students point of view ---> the whities tend to band together especially during crunch time when its every man for himself. thats just what i've experienced..

 

[unlvdmd]

During an Endo lecture I saw a pano of a guy with 28 Root canals.
His Dentist misdiagnosed a patients oral path for 28 LEO's (lesions of endodontic origin).
The root canals were done perfectly; well condensed, no short fills. The Diagnosis was not so good.
Tell the poor guy with 28 unnecessary Root Canals that didactics are not really that important. We just need to drill and fill anyway, right?
I could probably teach a monkey to fill a tooth, but that does not make him a Dr.

Thank GOD! I was just waiting for someone to put an actual case to support my point of view. THANK YOU! How can someone aruge against this without compromising both self dignity AND the dignity of the profession? For those of you who think didactics don't make a dentist, please... let me know who you are so I NEVER step foot into/refer to your office.

 

[unlvdmd]

My financial aid guy is the most niggardly guy I know.

Seriously? I can't believe you actually have the balls to say something like that. Good luck with that one.

 

[aphistis]

Define "being unable to place a direct restoration". Do you actually know people that are unable to do so?

That isn't exactly the pinnacle of difficulty.

You're completely missing the point, Gavin. The clinical scenario was just an imaginary context in which to apply the logic.

I'm also curious as to how you see didactic coursework, or simulation lab coursework relating to actually placing a direct restoration in a patient. I see minimal relation in those activities.

It's in the clinic where I learned that I"ll never see the stuff I was asked to do in the simlab. Well, not never, but rarely.

By my memory, you've now dismissed both the didactic & preclinical lab curricula as irrelevant. Are you suggesting D1's just be thrown into the clinic? Or, heck, maybe the clinical curriculum is as useless as the preclinical stuff. Let's just give anyone with a 3.5 & 18/18 a license based on their application; they'll figure out the important stuff as they go. It's not like we're doctors or anything.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but I always chuckle at those who claim that dental school is difficult. It simply isn't. Time consuming? Perhaps. A pain in the arse? Yes, quite possibly. Difficult? Not at all. The material isn't hard and practice makes perfect with clinical procedures. It seems as though who claim dental school to be difficult, believe that doing so makes them more worthy individuals. For better or for worse, my personal view of myself doesn't hinge upon my degrees, nor will it ever. I know you feel the same about that.

You're right, I do believe that self-worth shouldn't be derived from academic initials. I also believe, however, the first 80% of this paragraph fits right in among the most condescending comments I've ever seen in the entire time I've belonged to SDN, and if someone cornered me, I'd be forced to point out that it suggests a both a profound egocentrism and a staggering inability to empathize. Despite doing fine academically, I found several aspects of D1 & D2 extremely difficult, and to see you so glibly & habitually imply that anyone who doesn't breeze through dental school is somehow intellectually deficient frankly offends the hell out of me.

 

[runfast520]

i am alittle confused here!

when you say affirmative action can get you in --> which group are you reffering to, Blacks, hispanics, asians or all

I just finished my first year, from a minority students point of view ---> the whities tend to band together especially during crunch time when its every man for himself. thats just what i've experienced..

whites or blacks banding together has nothing to do with the admissions process, there are two black people in my class with 14 on the DAT, and they are both from well to do families. They have both failed two classes, which means they should have been kicked out, by our academic guidebook anyway, but they are still in my class. While a white girl failed one class and got the boot.

 

[Bickle]

My financial aid guy is the most niggardly guy I know.

I'm not sure what your saying here, but if its the thing I think it is, then Gavin I think you need to step down as an SDN moderator immediately.

 

[lnn2]

I'm not sure what your saying here, but if its the thing I think it is, then Gavin I think you need to step down as an SDN moderator immediately.

I don't think it's the thing you think it is Gman needs to stop using the big words! very confusing!

nig·gard·ly
Function: adjective
1 : grudgingly mean about spending or granting : BEGRUDGING
2 : provided in meanly limited supply
synonym see STINGY
- nig·gard·li·ness noun
- niggardly adverb

nig·gard
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse hnøggr niggardly;
: a meanly covetous and stingy person : MISER
- niggard adjective

 

[Bickle]

I don't think it's the thing you think it is Gman needs to stop using the big words! very confusing!

nig·gard·ly
Function: adjective
1 : grudgingly mean about spending or granting : BEGRUDGING
2 : provided in meanly limited supply
synonym see STINGY
- nig·gard·li·ness noun
- niggardly adverb

nig·gard
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse hnøggr niggardly;
: a meanly covetous and stingy person : MISER
- niggard adjective

Ohh okay. Still, it was kinda risky using a word such as that when race/aa was being discussed.

 

[grant555]

This works both ways. I have seen and heard of whites getting preferential treatment in this way as well. The problems stem from the fact that there is always going to be favortism. I have seen whites with lower credentials get the benefit of the doubt time and time again for positions on jobs that they had no clue how to perform, but were promoted because they were the babysitter of a high ranking official or a family friend.

No one bitches and complains when whites get something based on who they know (i.e. Geoge W. Bush), so there is little room to be complaining now. Meanwhile, this guy can barely explain his take on malpractice let alone his reasoning for this poorly planned war.

The bottom line is that there are whites, blacks, latinos, and asians who have no business in any dental school and are there simply from preferential treatment, so don't act like dental school is the only place that this stuff happens or the first time you have seen it.

I don't agree with some one getting a favorable look for anything other than work, but this goes on all over the country in all shapes, sizes, and races.

Take care and GOD bless.

 

[grant555]

My financial aid guy is the most niggardly guy I know.

Given the context within which this statement was presented, either it is racist or severely inarticulate. At any rate, it is dam sure inappropriate. I don't know if Dr. Burnett knows this garbage goes on, but we sure as hell don't need to lower this bar any lower. Take care and GOD bless.

 

[Blue Tooth]

You're right, I do believe that self-worth shouldn't be derived from academic initials. I also believe, however, the first 80% of this paragraph fits right in with the most condescending comments I've ever seen in the entire time I've belonged to SDN, and if someone cornered me, I'd be forced to point out that it suggests a staggering inability to empathize. Despite doing fine academically, I found several aspects of D1 & D2 extremely difficult, and to see you so glibly & habitually imply that anyone who doesn't breeze through dental school is somehow intellectually deficient frankly offends the hell out of me.

Amen to that.

Gavin- some of the things you've said recently absolutely befuddle me. Firstly, your niggard comment, especially considering the context, was not funny. We are not your friends, nor are we acquaintances. You are in a position of power and should act as such. That comment was not only incredibly inappropriate and irresponsible, it was stupid. You should step down.

Secondly, for you to make such condescending and patronizing comments about our profession is disappointing. Again, we are not your friends. You seem to lack the vision to comprehend that not everything in this profession come easily to all of us (especially when most of us do not come from a family of dentists, nor one as important as yours, and have not been around dentistry our entire lives). I shudder to think that the rest of your family holds what they do in such low esteem.

Your asinine comments have made me realize one thing; Dr. Dillenberg must be very disappointed in how poorly his vision of dental education has failed his students. Clearly, ASDOH is much, much worse than I'd previously thought and will need far longer than Nova did to gain acceptance in the profession.

 

[drben]

Devicive between what races? I don't know which races are being referred to. It's probably those Crackers again.

Exactly

 

[drben]

I'm with you on that Bickle. This person has no clue about dental school politics. It is a dirty game. Hopefully he'll shut his mouth and experience it himself.

I've been there done that my friend in TWO different dental schools...I think I know a little about dental school "politics"

BTW I hope you own a legitimate claim to Chad "DMD" before you go shooting your mouth off about other peoples "experience"

Ben

 

[mzalendo]

Gavin I am actually very interested in your response to your last post. By the way save us references from your dictionary, I think both as a parent, future professional you know the most appropriate action to take.

 

[predentchick]

bitches

They guy who is always talking about GOD said bitches! Yeah!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Despite doing fine academically, I found several aspects of D1 & D2 extremely difficult, and to see you so glibly & habitually imply that anyone who doesn't breeze through dental school is somehow intellectually deficient frankly offends the hell out of me.

That's not at all what I'm claiming. In fact, my basic premise is the exact oppposite. I've seen very good students get befuddled time and time again in sim lab--work that is excellent and perfectly acceptable getting low grades.

I think dental school at times *makes* students feel intellectually deficient, when in fact they aren't. It's this aspect of dental school that needs to change the most (remember those posts by the old guys on DentalTown recounting their terrors in school)?

I think too much of many curriculums (although I can't speak for any other school) is subjective, which is unfortuante. Granted, I can't think of a better way around many of the grading problems, so I'm at a dead-end on that issue.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'm not sure what your saying here, but if its the thing I think it is, then Gavin I think you need to step down as an SDN moderator immediately.

Interesting that people find a race issue in that comment, yet leave the "cracker" comment alone. Especially given that "cracker" IS a racial slur, whereas "niggardly" has nothing to do with race.

My apologies to those that were offended.

 

[grant555]

They guy who is always talking about GOD said bitches! Yeah!

If that's all you got from that post, then you weren't trying, and still doesn't address the issue. Take care and GOD bless.

 

[Bickle]

Interesting that people find a race issue in that comment, yet leave the "cracker" comment alone. Especially given that "cracker" IS a racial slur, whereas "niggardly" has nothing to do with race.

My apologies to those that were offended.

So I guess its a conincidence that you decided to use that word while a discussion about race was happening at the same time. Poor judgement Gavin...especially for someone in your position as a moderator.

 

[toofache32]

Interesting that people find a race issue in that comment, yet leave the "cracker" comment alone.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I was shocked as well about Gavin's comment until someone explained the word. It seems like after the dictionary was brought out, people still didn't humbly apologize for their uneducated attacks on Gavin as they probably should have. To continue beating this dead horse only demonstrates a knee-jerk mentality.

A tasteless pun? Maybe. But it's just like the first time we heard the word "masticating" in dental school...made you perk up didn't it?

 

[grant555]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I was shocked as well about Gavin's comment until someone explained the word. It seems like after the dictionary was brought out, people still didn't humbly apologize for their uneducated attacks on Gavin as they probably should have. To continue beating this dead horse only demonstrates a knee-jerk mentality.

A tasteless pun? Maybe. But it's just like the first time we heard the word "masticating" in dental school...made you perk up didn't it?

bitch ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bch)
n.
A female canine animal, especially a dog.
Offensive.
A woman considered to be spiteful or overbearing.
A lewd woman.
A man considered to be weak or contemptible.
Slang. A complaint.
Slang. Something very unpleasant or difficult.

v. Slang bitched, bitch·ing, bitch·es
v. intr.
To complain; grumble.

Man, do you see this predentchick. I feel much better about myself now.

.....Obviously, the dictionary statement is a weak excuse for the admitted tasteless statement, and any attempt to redirect blame on those offended is counterproductive.

Gavin apologized and leave it at that. Remarkably, it isn't the first or the last statement of it's caricature to be used on a forum filled with future professionals. Take care and GOD bless.

 

[unlvdmd]

Gavin: I for sure apologize for commenting on the usage of your word. My vocab just isn't that extended. HOWEVER, it is a little suspicious that you used that word right after the "cracker" comment, and the sentence really didn't make any sense in its placement in the flow of conversation (other than if race were implied). At least that is what I got from it.... Again, I apologize. But think twice before you put some fancy word that has "niggar" in it into a thread about race.

 

[predentchick]

Grant555--> I was totally kidding. Trying to loosen the tention. A little "bitch" here and there is good for health. No offense was intended. Just a little laugh. We all know you're a super guy who has a great passion....