research-based vs. clinical-based

[sjsudentist]

Hi guys,

How do we know which school is research-based which one is clinical-based?

Thanks

SJ

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[dentstd]

Hi guys,

How do we know which school is research-based which one is clinical-based?

Thanks

SJ

wtf's a research-based school? Students go to class at 8 am, then head off to the lab to do a western blot at noon? There is no such thing as a research-based dental school.

A school may produce lots of research, but that's the faculty. Not the students. Students do the same thing at every school. Go to lecture, then go to lab to cut teeth. People who criticize certain schools for being a "research school" and not a "clinical school" are *****s who can't think.

 

[timwatley]

wtf's a research-based school? Students go to class at 8 am, then head off to the lab to do a western blot at noon? There is no such thing as a research-based dental school.

A school may produce lots of research, but that's the faculty. Not the students. Students do the same thing at every school. Go to lecture, then go to lab to cut teeth. People who criticize certain schools for being a "research school" and not a "clinical school" are *****s who can't think.

lmao!!

 

[pinetar321]

If you're really interested in whos a research-driven school or clinical school, try just giving them a call. Most of the time they will give you a straight answer.
I mean, I know that Harvard is research-oriented according to everything I've heard.

 

[Sephisabin]

Wow, people are getting a bit testy in here... that usually happens 30 posts down, not the 2nd or 3rd... unless someone's bashing schools... anyways...

I think the OP may have meant schools that are clinic-focused versus didactic-focused (didactic being classroom focused in case you weren't sure). OP, let us know if that's what you meant.

 

[dentstd]

If you're really interested in whos a research-driven school or clinical school, try just giving them a call. Most of the time they will give you a straight answer.
I mean, I know that Harvard is research-oriented according to everything I've heard.

Yea, Harvard's super research-oriented. They don't have lectures and pre-clinic. They do PCR in the morning and DNA sequencing in the afternoon. In fact, they don't even get high speed and slow speed handpieces. They get micro-pipettes. Instead of a bur block, they get a box of pipette tips. Their dental kit is mostly RNA polymerase and DNAse H2O. Cuz that's what they do at "research schools." Research.

 

[dentstd]

I think the OP may have meant schools that are clinic-focused versus didactic-focused (didactic being classroom focused in case you weren't sure). OP, let us know if that's what you meant.

"clinic-focused" schools are those schools whose students have lower PAT. They need more practice to get things right. Cutting teeth is damn easy.

 

[Shinpe]

Yea, Harvard's super research-oriented. They don't have lectures and pre-clinic. They do PCR in the morning and DNA sequencing in the afternoon. In fact, they don't even get high speed and slow speed handpieces. They get micro-pipettes. Instead of a bur block, they get a box of pipette tips. Their dental kit is mostly RNA polymerase and DNAse H2O. Cuz that's what they do at "research schools." Research.

Dude, chillax! First of all, all the deans at schools like UCSF and UCLA refer to themselves as more research oriented and deans of schools like Nova, clinical-oriented. You're right, of course ppl at "research-based" don't just do research and it's absolutely not part of the curriculum. The difference is that schools like Nova are purely clinical and don't have any opportunities for research while schools like UCSF try to promote research even though the main focus is still clinical. It's something outside of the regular clinical, that if you really enjoy or want to do, you can try and make time for it (yeah ppl do it). And from what I heard from deans, such research can even help you get into residency programs. But yes you can go through all 4 years at UCSF without ever doing any research if you don't want to. It's just something optional that they like to promote.

 

[dentstd]

Dude, chillax! First of all, all the deans at schools like UCSF and UCLA refer to themselves as more research oriented and deans of schools like Nova, clinical-oriented. You're right, of course ppl at "research-based" don't just do research and it's absolutely not part of the curriculum. The difference is that schools like Nova are purely clinical and don't have any opportunities for research while schools like UCSF try to promote research even though the main focus is still clinical. It's something outside of the regular clinical, that if you really enjoy or want to do, you can try and make time for it (yeah ppl do it). And from what I heard from deans, such research can even help you get into residency programs. But yes you can go through all 4 years at UCSF without ever doing any research if you don't want to. It's just something optional that they like to promote.

The ONLY people to promote research are the students. Mostly the gung-ho, I-must-specialize students. The professors, deans, mentors have never even mentioned it.

 

[Shinpe]

The ONLY people to promote research are the students. Mostly the gung-ho, I-must-specialize students. The professors, deans, mentors have never even mentioned it.

I say that becaused I've talked with UCSF's dean and another lady from the school, who I think was dean of research. Maybe that's why she was saying that they try to promote research between dental students because they want them to develop scientific minds and background, so that they're able to keep up with the new products and methods that come out in dentistry.

Why don't you stop hating on other schools or students if they like to do research and just do your own thing? You don't like research or can't do research 'cause of ur school? Fine, doesnt mean everyone else should too.

 

[playa2652]

The ONLY people to promote research are the students. Mostly the gung-ho, I-must-specialize students. The professors, deans, mentors have never even mentioned it.

Man you need to chill. UCSF is a great dental institution that gives students the opportunity to conduct research, allowing them to broaden their knowledge through evidence-based dentistry. I believe that since all of us want to be future dentists, we should stop the name-calling and be respectful of each institution.

 

[UCLAzy]

i hear university of rochester is research based

=)

 

[dentstd]

Man you need to chill. UCSF is a great dental institution that gives students the opportunity to conduct research, allowing them to broaden their knowledge through evidence-based dentistry. I believe that since all of us want to be future dentists, we should stop the name-calling and be respectful of each institution.

Direct your comments about UCSF to Shinpe. I said nothing negative about any school. Defending UCSF is rather pointless when no one's criticizing them.

I only take issue with idiots who don't know what "research schools" are. "Research schools" don't teach research. There isn't even a research emphasis. At best, they teach you how to read and interpret studies. They don't teach you how to conduct them. It's the mindless drones that accept other peoples' idea without thinking about them first. In this case, the term "research school" is a misnomer, and there are a series of improper characteristics attributed to them. Mostly by select, idiotic students at the "clinical schools."

Go to UCSF. Tell me next December if they teach you research.

 

[doc3232]

Direct your comments about UCSF to Shinpe. I said nothing negative about any school. Defending UCSF is rather pointless when no one's criticizing them.

I only take issue with idiots who don't know what "research schools" are. "Research schools" don't teach research. There isn't even a research emphasis. At best, they teach you how to read and interpret studies. They don't teach you how to conduct them. It's the mindless drones that accept other peoples' idea without thinking about them first. In this case, the term "research school" is a misnomer, and there are a series of improper characteristics attributed to them. Mostly by select, idiotic students at the "clinical schools."

Go to UCSF. Tell me next December if they teach you research.

You go to UCSF, right?

 

[dentstd]

You go to UCSF, right?

Nope.

 

[Shinpe]

DUde, who the * here said that they teach you research at research-based or research-oriented schools??? He just asked which one's which. It's true that they don't teach you research. Just like undergrad. I attend a "research school". They don't teach you reasearch. There's just a lot of research going on and you have the option to get involved. It's the same with dental school.

And if you can't realize that there's a difference between research-oriented schools like UCSF and schools like Nova in terms of opportunities for research and its promotion, then you don't know wth you're talking about

 

[dentstd]

DUde, who the * here said that they teach you research at research-based or research-oriented schools??? He just asked which one's which. It's true that they don't teach you research. Just like undergrad. I attend a "research school". They don't teach you reasearch. There's just a lot of research going on and you have the option to get involved. It's the same with dental school.

And if you can't realize that there's a difference between research-oriented schools like UCSF and schools like Nova in terms of opportunities for research and its promotion, then you don't know wth you're talking about

So what's the deal here? You put words into other peoples' mouths, then you criticize those words as if it weren't yours? Que idiota.

 

[Shinpe]

So what's the deal here? You put words into other peoples' mouths, then you criticize those words as if it weren't yours? Que idiota.

Seems like you can't actually read other people's posts and have a response instead of calling others idiots. My guess is that's just your defense mechanism, hiding your dumbness. What a sad being.

My last post on this thread. Enjoy .............

 

[dentstd]

Seems like you can't actually read other people's posts and have a response instead of calling others idiots. My guess is that's just your defense mechanism, hiding your dumbness. What a sad being.

My last post on this thread. Enjoy .............

Problem is...I CAN read. I'm reading about your conversations with yourself. You make some claim about Nova, no one bothered to respond, and you followed with more conversation with yourself about more Nova business. In the process, you criticize others for not understanding your Nova claim. The entire time, I'm just thinking...what's the deal with this Shinpe fella?

What's my problem? Dumb people piss me off, and I'm venting.

 

[Cleric7x9]

Problem is...I CAN read. I'm reading about your conversations with yourself. You make some claim about Nova, no one bothered to respond, and you followed with more conversation with yourself about more Nova business. In the process, you criticize others for not understanding your Nova claim. The entire time, I'm just thinking...what's the deal with this Shinpe fella?

What's my problem? Dumb people piss me off, and I'm venting.

you are wrong. lots of dental schools are very heavily into research. I go to UF, and we are the 4th highest NIH granted school, and there are lots and lots of opportunties for students to do research. now, i understand what you are saying in your above posts; you are taking the OP extremely literally. obviously no dental school is completely "research-based," but there is definitely a difference in the available research opportunities at different schools.

if not, why do some schools offer a combined DMD/PhD program? what is that PhD for? just to make people call them Doctor Doctor? some schools are very research-intensive schools, and if you dont believe me, check this out:

http://www.dental.ufl.edu/Offices/Research/

 

[dentstd]

you are wrong. lots of dental schools are very heavily into research. I go to UF, and we are the 4th highest NIH granted school, and there are lots and lots of opportunties for students to do research. now, i understand what you are saying in your above posts; you are taking the OP extremely literally. obviously no dental school is completely "research-based," but there is definitely a difference in the available research opportunities at different schools.

if not, why do some schools offer a combined DMD/PhD program? what is that PhD for? just to make people call them Doctor Doctor? some schools are very research-intensive schools, and if you dont believe me, check this out:

http://www.dental.ufl.edu/Offices/Research/

Good lord. If it hasn't clicked for you yet, I'm clarifying what constitutes a "research school." More precisely, I'm clarifying what doesn't constitute a "research school." Research schools are not schools that teach research. There seems to be a common misconception amongst students at the so-called clinical schools that students at "research schools" don't spend much time in the clinic because they're off doing their research thing.

Yes, I'm sure UF has lots of research opportunities. Most universities do. The ones that don't are usually the ones that have few programs and schools within the university, like Nova, Midwestern, UoP, ASDOH.

A school is a "research school" because they hire lots of faculty to conduct research. Not because their curriculum promotes or integrates research. That's my point.

And I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell most people. Pay more attention when you read.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Good lord. If it hasn't clicked for you yet, I'm clarifying what constitutes a "research school." More precisely, I'm clarifying what doesn't constitute a "research school." Research schools are not schools that teach research. There seems to be a common misconception amongst students at the so-called clinical schools that students at "research schools" don't spend much time in the clinic because they're off doing their research thing.

Yes, I'm sure UF has lots of research opportunities. Most universities do. The ones that don't are usually the ones that have few programs and schools within the university, like Nova, Midwestern, UoP, ASDOH.

A school is a "research school" because they hire lots of faculty to conduct research. Not because their curriculum promotes or integrates research. That's my point.

And I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell most people. Pay more attention when you read.

just for clarification, Midwestern has 22 programs over 2 campuses including 2 med schools and soon to be 2 dental schools. we're adding 2 new programs next year as well. there is also a joint program in research opportunity (that you can get paid for) with arizona state. i agree with you about so called research schools though. sometimes when schools have some research going on they like to play it up like they are "cutting edge". but really it's exactly like any other dental school. UCSF is known for research but it's not like they have access to any special technology or even any break through news that isn't available anywhere else. a great school no doubt, just an example of the common missconception of a "research school"

 

[dentstd]

just for clarification, Midwestern has 22 programs over 2 campuses including 2 med schools and soon to be 2 dental schools. we're adding 2 new programs next year as well. there is also a joint program in research opportunity (that you can get paid for) with arizona state. i agree with you about so called research schools though. sometimes when schools have some research going on they like to play it up like they are "cutting edge". but really it's exactly like any other dental school. UCSF is known for research but it's not like they have access to any special technology or even any break through news that isn't available anywhere else. a great school no doubt, just an example of the common missconception of a "research school"

eh, you went a bit far with that. UCSF does amazing research. Damn good research. And I mean daaaammmmnn good. Within the academic world, they attract some of the very best minds available. Not a force to be underestimated.

The best resources aren't equipment you buy. The best resources are the minds of your PI's.

 

[Oracle DMD]

eh, you went a bit far with that. UCSF does amazing research. Damn good research. And I mean daaaammmmnn good. Within the academic world, they attract some of the very best minds available. Not a force to be underestimated.

The best resources aren't equipment you buy. The best resources are the minds of your PI's.

uhhh yeah it's a good school. but how does the research there contribute to your dental education? a force to be undersestimated???? hahaha i don't know who's got you so gassed up on ucsf but wow! hahahaha don't drink the kool-aid over there just yet. school me to some mind blowing research that's going on over there that the dental students are doing. i bet the research sounds a whole lot like many other dental schools out there! or does ucsf hand out pipets instead of handpieces?

 

[Cleric7x9]

wtf's a research-based school? Students go to class at 8 am, then head off to the lab to do a western blot at noon? There is no such thing as a research-based dental school.

A school may produce lots of research, but that's the faculty. Not the students. Students do the same thing at every school. Go to lecture, then go to lab to cut teeth. People who criticize certain schools for being a "research school" and not a "clinical school" are *****s who can't think.

Good lord. If it hasn't clicked for you yet, I'm clarifying what constitutes a "research school." More precisely, I'm clarifying what doesn't constitute a "research school." Research schools are not schools that teach research. There seems to be a common misconception amongst students at the so-called clinical schools that students at "research schools" don't spend much time in the clinic because they're off doing their research thing.

Yes, I'm sure UF has lots of research opportunities. Most universities do. The ones that don't are usually the ones that have few programs and schools within the university, like Nova, Midwestern, UoP, ASDOH.

A school is a "research school" because they hire lots of faculty to conduct research. Not because their curriculum promotes or integrates research. That's my point.

And I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell most people. Pay more attention when you read.

"good lord", you are completely wrong. i cant speak for other schools, but I personally have my name on a research paper from UF Dental School, for research that I did as a dental student, in a program that highly promoted research. i even received 6 elective credits for my research; if that isnt integrating research into the curriculum, i dont know what is. you are the one that should be paying more attention to when you read, and particularly when you write.

just in case you are still having a difficult time paying attention to reading what you wrote, I have taken the liberty of highlighting the things that I am responding to.

 

[armorshell]

Yes, I'm sure UF has lots of research opportunities. Most universities do. The ones that don't are usually the ones that have few programs and schools within the university, like Nova, Midwestern, UoP, ASDOH.

I'm not about to say Pacific is a research school, but you're way off base imagining that we don't have lots of research opportunities. One student in my class took home an AADR fellowship, two students won a Hinman symposium award, two more won an AADR award, I myself have completed 1 paper which will be published soon, and am working on 2 more research projects.

The big hitters in academia definitely don't have a lock on student involvement in original research. This is why reputations are often misleading. To the students out there researching schools, do your own legwork. You'll be pleasentley surprised how often things batted about SDN are often the exact opposite of true.

 

[armorshell]

"good lord", you are completely wrong. i cant speak for other schools, but I personally have my name on a research paper from UF Dental School, for research that I did as a dental student, in a program that highly promoted research. i even received 6 elective credits for my research; if that isnt integrating research into the curriculum, i dont know what is. you are the one that should be paying more attention to when you read, and particularly when you write.

just in case you are still having a difficult time paying attention to reading what you wrote, I have taken the liberty of highlighting the things that I am responding to.

dentstd is having trouble realizing you're not understanding the context of what he's saying.

There's a common SDN myth that there are two types of schools: clinical schools and research school. The myth goes that clinical schools only teach you drilling and filling, and clinical dentistry, and leave you in the lurch regarding research and medical didactics. At research schools on the other hand, students spend the majority of their time running gels and columns, and studying for medical school classes, and might graduate never having done a crown.

Exaggerated a little bit yes, but this is what dentstd is talking about. That kind of differentiation doesn't really exist. There is no such thing as a "research" school or "clinical" school.

 

[Cleric7x9]

dentstd is having trouble realizing you're not understanding the context of what he's saying.

There's a common SDN myth that there are two types of schools: clinical schools and research school. The myth goes that clinical schools only teach you drilling and filling, and clinical dentistry, and leave you in the lurch regarding research and medical didactics. At research schools on the other hand, students spend the majority of their time running gels and columns, and studying for medical school classes, and might graduate never having done a crown.

Exaggerated a little bit yes, but this is what dentstd is talking about. That kind of differentiation doesn't really exist. There is no such thing as a "research" school or "clinical" school.

well, i havent been here for terribly long, but i havent seen that myth. from what i have seen, people here pretty much understand that some schools are very into research, and some schools are not. it appears as though dentsd is trying to say that there are no dental schools that do research, as per his above quote where he stated "all dental students do the same thing: classes in the morning and clinic/lab in the afternoon"

 

[armorshell]

well, i havent been here for terribly long, but i havent seen that myth. from what i have seen, people here pretty much understand that some schools are very into research, and some schools are not. it appears as though dentsd is trying to say that there are no dental schools that do research, as per his above quote where he stated "all dental students do the same thing: classes in the morning and clinic/lab in the afternoon"

Does UF require students to do research? You mentioned your 6 credits of research were an elective, right?

 

[Cleric7x9]

Does UF require students to do research? You mentioned your 6 credits of research were an elective, right?

no of course not. but you and your buddy are making it seem like there is no opportunity for research at all. go back and re-read the things he said. not ALL dental students go to lecture in the morning then lab in the afternoon to cut teeth. and some schools DEFINITELY have more research opportunities than others. the OP was a perfectly valid question, dentsd answered in incorrectly, and now you are trying to validate your friend's answer.

 

[armorshell]

no of course not. but you and your buddy are making it seem like there is no opportunity for research at all. go back and re-read the things he said. not ALL dental students go to lecture in the morning then lab in the afternoon to cut teeth. and some schools DEFINITELY have more research opportunities than others. the OP was a perfectly valid question, dentsd answered in incorrectly, and now you are trying to validate your friend's answer.

If research isn't mandatory, then it's not the mythical definition of the SDN research school. I am not agreeing with dentstd at all, or you for that matter, I'm trying to clarify the argument. I don't know how I made it seem like there is no opportunity for research at all when I posted two paragraphs about the research I do myself.

That some schools do have more research opportunities than others I'm sure, I never said they didn't.

 

[ToosStudent]

there's also a distinction of strong medical curriculum vs. strong clinical dental curriculum. some schools such as UOP pump out excellent clinicians who are able to practice comfortably right out of dental school while schools such as Columbia emphasizes on a medically integrated curriculum while getting students into clinics later.

 

[futuredent22]

First, I never understand how people can get so angry over an internet forum.

Second, Harvard actually does require research. From their website:

"SDM considers the generation of new knowledge to be an integral part of the education of future leaders in the field of dentistry. In recognition of this goal, predoctoral students are required to explore and develop interest in a special field, resulting in the completion of a research project and defense of a thesis prior to the awarding of the DMD degree."

So, it seems perfectly reasonable for the OP to ask about which schools may expect, or eve require, their students to do research. If the OP dreads research, this post will certainly help him/her realize Harvard is a bad choice. And that is the point of the post: to seek help, not get bashed from some dude (dentstd) who has nothing better to do with his free time.

 

[dentstd]

I'm drawing a distinction between opportunities for research and integrating research into the curriculum. There will always be opportunities for something, great or small. Receiving elective credits for research is far from research being integrated into the curriculum. For one, it's not in the curriculum, per se. It's more that you did research, and they decided to arbitrarily give you credit. You can get elective credits for anything.

 

[DrReo]

I'm drawing a distinction between opportunities for research and integrating research into the curriculum. There will always be opportunities for something, great or small. Receiving elective credits for research is far from research being integrated into the curriculum. For one, it's not in the curriculum, per se. It's more that you did research, and they decided to arbitrarily give you credit. You can get elective credits for anything.

Problem based learning?????

 

[dentstd]

Problem based learning?????

Stop talking to me in abstract ways. Only you understand what you say. The last many of your responses are you giving obscure references. Who are you pretending to be? Maya Angelou or something? Say few words, but have power in those few words?

 

[DrReo]

I'm drawing a distinction between opportunities for research and integrating research into the curriculum.

Receiving elective credits for research is far from research being integrated into the curriculum.

Are you trying to sum up USC's five step model?

The five-step model in the chart below identifies these steps:

1. Problem is presented and read by group member, while another acts as scribe to mark down FACTS as identified by group.
2. Students discuss what is known (the facts).
3. Students discuss what they think and identify the broad problem
   (brainstorm their ideas and formulate their hypotheses).
4. Students identify their learning needs (what they need to learn in order to prove or disprove their ideas).
5. Students share research findings with their peers, then recycle steps 2-4

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/ccmb/usc-csp/Quikfacts.htm

 

[a1pha]

lol...I really hope you're trolling reo. If not, know that your intellect saddens the pre-dent community.

 

[AirborneDentist]

Not going to get into this bashing...just going to answer the question..

UK focused mostly on clinical dentistry...over the didactic portion...I am not saying we didn't cover it...but more focus was on the clinical aspect..

Talking with people I know that went to Temple, they said the same thing...and the people that I know that come out of Temple or UK know how to treat patients, and are the better people to have work on you in the clinic..

Hope that helps..

 

[dentstd]

Are you trying to sum up USC's five step model?

The five-step model in the chart below identifies these steps:

1. Problem is presented and read by group member, while another acts as scribe to mark down FACTS as identified by group.
2. Students discuss what is known (the facts).
3. Students discuss what they think and identify the broad problem
   (brainstorm their ideas and formulate their hypotheses).
4. Students identify their learning needs (what they need to learn in order to prove or disprove their ideas).
5. Students share research findings with their peers, then recycle steps 2-4

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/ccmb/usc-csp/Quikfacts.htm

I would have to agree with a1pha. Your intellect saddens the world multiple times over. Your posts are obscure at best. It never relates remotely to what's said, and you're in a world only you understand.

As if it's not blatantly obvious, in this case, when we say "research," we're referring to conducting scientific studies. We are NOT referring to "researching a topic," as in digging up information for a paper we're writing (USC = researching a topic). If you had the most basic reading comprehension skill, you would know this. The rest of us developed this skill in middle school.