Research instead of volunteering [importance of volunteering]

[YeOldeMan]

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Hello,

I'll be applying to med school fairly soon (ah....how time does fly). I have not done any volunteering. However, I have done a lot of research. A lot more so than many other students. I have a few publications, and one where I'm the first author. Can this replace volunteering? I really don't want to go volunteer in some hospital or whatever. Research, in a sense, is like volunteering to the real world. You crank out information that other people can freely access, and which helps progress the sciences. So can my research replace my volunteering? Will I be looked down up (at all) for not having "volunteering experience." It seems that everybody else has volunteered for this hospital, or that clinic, or this nonprofit, or that learning center for minorities, etc. If I tutored students in Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Statistics, etc could that be considered "volunteering?"

 

[Stratego]

Community service and clinical experience are unwritten requirements for a med school application. If you apply MD/PhD some schools might take you if you have very little, and it is rarely reported on SDN that someone got in without this experience to an MD-only program, but for the most part your application needs to demonstrate that you have explored a career as a physician and have some idea of what you are getting yourself into and that you have a service-to-others mentality. We see reports by high stat posters with insufficient extracurriculars, not infrequently, that they were not accepted anywhere. So your excellent research background does not replace the other elements of a good application.

Clinical experience and community service can be combined into clinical volunteerism and have it count for both expectations. If you did clinical research, it gives you clinical experience, but it does not meet the need for community service.

Tutoring would be listed under teaching/mentoring. If you did not get paid and did not do it for class credit, it is community service/volunteerism, but it is not clinical experience.

 

[flip26]

Hello,

I'll be applying to med school fairly soon (ah....how time does fly). I have not done any volunteering. However, I have done a lot of research. A lot more so than many other students. I have a few publications, and one where I'm the first author. Can this replace volunteering? I really don't want to go volunteer in some hospital or whatever. Research, in a sense, is like volunteering to the real world. You crank out information that other people can freely access, and which helps progress the sciences. So can my research replace my volunteering? Will I be looked down up (at all) for not having "volunteering experience." It seems that everybody else has volunteered for this hospital, or that clinic, or this nonprofit, or that learning center for minorities, etc. If I tutored students in Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Statistics, etc could that be considered "volunteering?"

No.

 

[Spiker]

They are going to ask you:

Why dont you just want to do just phD then?

Then after your answering why you want to be MD

They are going to ask you:

How do you actually know? You havent had any exposure!

 

[YeOldeMan]

Thanks for the replies!

So in general, I get the impression that medical schools want some kind of exposure to medicine. Could that be fulfilled by shadowing a physician? And the other requirement, of community service (assuming community service plus hospital/medical-type experience is required), could be fulfilled by tutoring students for free... Hell, I could even go do it at a local community college.

If I shadowed a physician instead of volunteered at a hospital, will that be looked down upon?

Thanks,
-YOM

 

[AdmiralChz]

Do as much as you can... you have absolutely no exposure and are essentially now a lab robot (schools will ask, why MD and not PHD?). Get out there and get experience in any way you can!

I would even advise you to drop the research if it meant you could get more volunteer time - that takes priority now.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

Shadowing is good for exposure but in NO WAY replaces volunteering.

 

[virusgirl]

Thanks for the replies!

So in general, I get the impression that medical schools want some kind of exposure to medicine. Could that be fulfilled by shadowing a physician? And the other requirement, of community service (assuming community service plus hospital/medical-type experience is required), could be fulfilled by tutoring students for free... Hell, I could even go do it at a local community college.

If I shadowed a physician instead of volunteered at a hospital, will that be looked down upon?

Thanks,
-YOM

You definitely do need clinical experiences so that you know what you're getting into. These may be volunteer experiences, or they can be shadowing. If you shadow, you need to find some other form of volunteer activity, because I think medical schools (particularly if you aren't applying MD/PhD and will end up as a full-time clinician) are looking for people who are interested in serving the community (or at least appear to be interested).

 

[xiaoyi666]

Community service and clinical experience are unwritten requirements for a med school application. If you apply MD/PhD some schools might take you if you have very little, and it is rarely reported on SDN that someone got in without this experience to an MD-only program, but for the most part your application needs to demonstrate that you have explored a career as a physician and have some idea of what you are getting yourself into and that you have a service-to-others mentality. We see reports by high stat posters with insufficient extracurriculars, not infrequently, that they were not accepted anywhere. So your excellent research background does not replace the other elements of a good application.

Clinical experience and community service can be combined into clinical volunteerism and have it count for both expectations. If you did clinical research, it gives you clinical experience, but it does not meet the need for community service.

Tutoring would be listed under teaching/mentoring. If you did not get paid and did not do it for class credit, it is community service/volunteerism, but it is not clinical experience.

I second that post. Well written.

 

[BlueElmo]

Try to do at least a little volunteering. It takes some hours and might be a pain, but at least you will have something to talk about during interviews.

 

[roflcakes887]

shadowing > volunteering.

as a volunteer, you don't do anything that a physician will do in the real world.

volunteering is probably one of the most useless things you can do, since you won't be exposed to what doctors do.

doctors don't transport patients from point A to B, doctors don't feed patients meals.

so, why do you think this will prepare you for med school?

Answer: it doesn't

 

[GoSpursGo]

shadowing > volunteering.

as a volunteer, you don't do anything that a physician will do in the real world.

volunteering is probably one of the most useless things you can do, since you won't be exposed to what doctors do.

doctors don't transport patients from point A to B, doctors don't feed patients meals.

so, why do you think this will prepare you for med school?

Answer: it doesn't

The purpose of volunteering isn't to get an idea of what med school will be like, it's to show adcoms that you're altruistic and to get you patient contact and interactions. That's very important in the eyes of adcoms, even if you find it completely meaningless.

 

[flip26]

The purpose of volunteering isn't to get an idea of what med school will be like, it's to show adcoms that you're altruistic and to get you patient contact and interactions. That's very important in the eyes of adcoms, even if you find it completely meaningless.

Correct, and while that other poster placed shadowing ahead of volunteering, neither activity "prepares" someone for a career in medicine other than superficially exposing them to the work that is done in hospitals and clinics...his criticism of the relative value of the activities may be correct, but it is poor advice to give a premed to suggest they don't need to volunteer because it is worthless...

For med school apps, clinical exposure is an absolute must, and the methods of getting it are: volunteering>shadowing>>>research.

Research is its own category, and is a nice thing to have as opposed to a necessary thing. But to tie it back to the OP, research, even in a clinical setting, is not a substitute for volunteering and shadowing...just try applying with zero volunteer activities and see how fast your app gets the round file...

 

[Mobius1985]

If you don't have face-to-face contact with sick people, how will you know if you can tolerate the sight of vomit and blood, foul smells associated with the ill, and the presence of germs in an medical environment. Adcomms would like some reassurance that you won't freak out in a training program. Clinical volunteering also helps to show you have some people skills which some who have been in a lab for years will not have developed. Adcomms feel that your actions speak louder than any words of reassurance you might say to them on these issues. I feel clinical volunteering is viewed as more important than shadowing, but both need to be done so your application will appeal to the greatest number of med schools.

side note: Hey, flip, congrats on passing the 2000 mark!

 

[AdmiralChz]

shadowing > volunteering.

volunteering is probably one of the most useless things you can do, since you won't be exposed to what doctors do.

I disagree completely - obviously you had some bad experiences with your volunteer work. My work literally defined my application (EMT, International Med Missions) and came up positively at all my interviews. Plus, I had an absolute blast and yes, I was exposed quite a bit to what doctors do.

 

[BrainBuff]

So in general, I get the impression that medical schools want some kind of exposure to medicine.

You still do not get it. Med schools do not want "some kind of exposure to medicine", they want lots, and lots of exposure to medicine. Applicants whose parents are MDs do better because of the assumed "given exposure" to the lifestyle and sacrifices doctors have to make.

I know a few students- Ivy League with 4.0 and 40s MCATs and good research and publications but no volunteerism and no meaningful clinical exposure. To their dismay, they only got a couple of interviews and eventually one acceptance at pretty mediocre med schools.

 

[michigator04]

Many medical schools specifically ask in interviews and/or secondaries about both medical and non-medical volunteer experiences. Both are important and will come up at some point.

 

[rocketbooster]

You must have volunteering, and it needs to be done before you apply. You need it to be listed on your primary application.

Trust me, the 1 school I interviewed at just waitlisted me. I spoke with the admissions office the other day and they read off the comments that the interviews wrote of me. The only negative comments were "little to moderate volunteering. only volunteered with premed club and not much else."

I was actually volunteering like crazy over this past year and updated schools with the info half way through the year. however, schools don't pay nearly as much attention as you think they do to your update letters. 2/3 interviews didn't know of the update letter. the 1 interviewer who did know of it wrote my volunteering was good because of it.

so, yes, it's important. very important. it can easily get you rejected if you have 0. even if you start now, you'll still be hurting because you'll only have a few months of it by the time you apply. if you have to reapply next year, then you'll have ample time to fix that hole. if your #s are solid, you can maybe get around the lack of volunteering but IDK.

 

[Red Leader]

The purpose of volunteering isn't to get an idea of what med school will be like, it's to show adcoms that you're altruistic and to get you patient contact and interactions. That's very important in the eyes of adcoms, even if you find it completely meaningless.

Actually I'm pretty sure its to make sure you're an obedient dog that will jump through endless and ridiculous hoops to get the treat at the end.

But in that light I agree, yes it is important to them.

oh and OP, great job with the research. I'm in a similar situation and I'm applying soon as well: lots of research/little clinical. Trust me, for higher tier schools research will mean more to them than pushing patients around. Become good at telling stories and make some bull**** experience you had with a patient seem like the greatest thing on Earth (without lying of course). Everyone does the same bull**** but spins it some crazy way. With research you have an upper hand because you cannot bull**** what you did in your lab unless you have a pub to back it up, which you do.

ehh just wanna clarify those aforementioned hoops are necessary evils and you need clinical experience in some form or another so they don't have something to pin you on the wall with.

 

[Red Leader]

.

 

[YeOldeMan]

Great replies, again, thanks! I guess I kind of mis-worded my post. I have "volunteered," particularly helping students having difficulties in subjects (after all, it kept me sharp - win win situation), and I have shadowed two physicians (who were friends of my dad - one plastic (reconstructive) surgeon and one neurosurgeon)...I just haven't volunteered at a hospital or a clinic; I didn't think much of feeding sick people, and pushing them around, etc. Both the shadowing and the volunteering are a little weak, but I've got a summer coming up and another year, so I can try to crank it up. Can I continue what I'm doing, or, in the end, will I have to go to the hospital. If there is any benefit in the hospital volunteering, over tutoring + shadowing, I'll go do it...but definitely would prefer to avoid it.

I know a few students- Ivy League with 4.0 and 40s MCATs and good research and publications but no volunteerism and no meaningful clinical exposure. To their dismay, they only got a couple of interviews and eventually one acceptance at pretty mediocre med schools.

Surely thats somewhat exaggerated? I find most adcoms talk idealistically, but much of the time it comes down to stellar numbers, which trump all. Those are phenomental stats and I just cannot see some top-tier schools rejecting them, especially Ivies who take care of their own...For example, UPenn accepts 95+% of its undergrads (who apply) to it's med school, and it would be very weird if those few fell into that unlucky 5-%...

This worries me partly because I have fairly high stats, and am confident I will have a fairly high MCAT (from practise tests). I'm not Ivy League though, so I don't get the benefit of "club."

Actually I'm pretty sure its to make sure you're an obedient dog that will jump through endless and ridiculous hoops to get the treat at the end.

But in that light I agree, yes it is important to them.

oh and OP, great job with the research. I'm in a similar situation and I'm applying soon as well: lots of research/little clinical. Trust me, for higher tier schools research will mean more to them than pushing patients around. Become good at telling stories and make some bull**** experience you had with a patient seem like the greatest thing on Earth (without lying of course). Everyone does the same bull**** but spins it some crazy way. With research you have an upper hand because you cannot bull**** what you did in your lab unless you have a pub to back it up, which you do.

ehh just wanna clarify those aforementioned hoops are necessary evils and you need clinical experience in some form or another so they don't have something to pin you on the wall with.

Thanks! You too, congratulations on the research! Yeah, research is a hell of a thing, and I am definitely considering MD/PhD programs. The down part is the length...man that's a long time. Anyhow, I'm glad to hear higher tier schools will consider this important.

Good luck with your application! I'm very interested in knowing how it goes....

Regards!

 

[BlueElmo]

You must have volunteering, and it needs to be done before you apply. You need it to be listed on your primary application.

Trust me, the 1 school I interviewed at just waitlisted me. I spoke with the admissions office the other day and they read off the comments that the interviews wrote of me. The only negative comments were "little to moderate volunteering. only volunteered with premed club and not much else."

I was actually volunteering like crazy over this past year and updated schools with the info half way through the year. however, schools don't pay nearly as much attention as you think they do to your update letters. 2/3 interviews didn't know of the update letter. the 1 interviewer who did know of it wrote my volunteering was good because of it.

so, yes, it's important. very important. it can easily get you rejected if you have 0. even if you start now, you'll still be hurting because you'll only have a few months of it by the time you apply. if you have to reapply next year, then you'll have ample time to fix that hole. if your #s are solid, you can maybe get around the lack of volunteering but IDK.

What school was this, if you don't mind my asking? Man, I didn't know volunteering was that important. Good thing I have an adequate amount under my belt by the time I apply.

 

[Bacchus]

Some schools play up volunteering...and then don't take it into consideration, imo.

 

[flip26]

Surely thats somewhat exaggerated? I find most adcoms talk idealistically, but much of the time it comes down to stellar numbers, which trump all. Those are phenomental stats and I just cannot see some top-tier schools rejecting them, especially Ivies who take care of their own...For example, UPenn accepts 95+% of its undergrads (who apply) to it's med school, and it would be very weird if those few fell into that unlucky 5-%...This worries me partly because I have fairly high stats, and am confident I will have a fairly high MCAT (from practise tests).

Looking at your low post count, it must explain how little you know about this process from the above.

If you think we are exaggerating about people with stellar stats getting rejected if they have no clinical volunteering, go right ahead and give it a try. Stellar numbers do NOT "trump all."

Speaking of exaggeration, I would like to see you back up the claim that Penn grads have a 95 percent acceptance rate at Penn Med...I have never heard of anything that ridiculously high for any school.

As for your confidence about having a fairly high MCAT...take the actual test, then get back to us on it...

 

[flip26]

Some schools play up volunteering...and then don't take it into consideration, imo.

I think you are right. You have to have it, but after that, they move on to the other areas of your app...hate to say it, but I think volunteering has become one of those "me, too" ECs that is really over rated but absolutely necessary.

 

[GH253]

Most volunteerism is really just self-interested ass-kissing and I don't want to do it either. The expectation of voluteer work stems from the ideology that medicine is primarily a humanistic pursuit, that doctors are mere public servants and that what makes a good doctor is selfless concern for the welfare of others. All of which is responsible for the rapidly degrading quality of healthcare today.

 

[YeOldeMan]

Looking at your low post count, it must explain how little you know about this process from the above.

If you think we are exaggerating about people with stellar stats getting rejected if they have no clinical volunteering, go right ahead and give it a try. Stellar numbers do NOT "trump all."

Speaking of exaggeration, I would like to see you back up the claim that Penn grads have a 95 percent acceptance rate at Penn Med...I have never heard of anything that ridiculously high for any school.

As for your confidence about having a fairly high MCAT...take the actual test, then get back to us on it...

Numbers "trump all" in the sense that if your grades and MCAT are low, it does not matter how high everything else is.

Perhaps I did recall that 95% wrong. I think I was browsing their different schools, and came upon it. Maybe it was for undergrads to graduate programs in general. I shouldn't have thrown it out there without checking.

I'm not sure why you brought up my MCAT... Take it and get back to you? Why? Nobody cares what I get on my MCAT. It's not like my argument hinges on my MCAT, it was just used to help justify a question.

And you're right, I don't know much about the process.

What does post count mean anyway? It may help as a rough general indicator, but otherwise than that - the more free time someone has, the more posts they can get. I'm not sure how you derived my knowledge of adcoms from that, though. I guess you're just a regression expert 😛

 

[pathophys17]

Better not put down that you want to help people on your PS....Kidding, but you should try to have at least a little bit of volunteering. You don't need a ton since you'll probably stand out in the area of research, but you don't want any holes in your application. It may not be absolutely necessary, but why start out with a weak spot to begin with?

 

[pathophys17]

Actually I'm pretty sure its to make sure you're an obedient dog that will jump through endless and ridiculous hoops to get the treat at the end.

But in that light I agree, yes it is important to them.


ehh just wanna clarify those aforementioned hoops are necessary evils and you need clinical experience in some form or another so they don't have something to pin you on the wall with.

So true. And will keep obediently jumping through those hoops, to smile and appease your attendings during clinical rotations so you can match into residency and be happy with little pay, even less sleep, and patients who could care less about your pay or sleep to possibly match into a fellowship, and finally to get an attending position. They want to make sure you'll do whatever it takes and are the kind of person who will continue to do so, putting your patients first and yourself second.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

So in general, I get the impression that medical schools want some kind of exposure to medicine.

Please, just go ahead and invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into education in a field that you've never experienced first-hand.

 

[flip26]

Numbers "trump all" in the sense that if your grades and MCAT are low, it does not matter how high everything else is.

Perhaps I did recall that 95% wrong. I think I was browsing their different schools, and came upon it. Maybe it was for undergrads to graduate programs in general. I shouldn't have thrown it out there without checking.

I'm not sure why you brought up my MCAT... Take it and get back to you? Why? Nobody cares what I get on my MCAT. It's not like my argument hinges on my MCAT, it was just used to help justify a question.

And you're right, I don't know much about the process.

What does post count mean anyway? It may help as a rough general indicator, but otherwise than that - the more free time someone has, the more posts they can get. I'm not sure how you derived my knowledge of adcoms from that, though. I guess you're just a regression expert 😛

What happened to "numbers trumps all" and your confidence you will get a high MCAT score? You brought it up...go out and get that "high" MCAT, chief...easier said than done.

 

[Law2Doc]

Looking at your low post count, it must explain how little you know about this process from the above.

If you think we are exaggerating about people with stellar stats getting rejected if they have no clinical volunteering, go right ahead and give it a try. Stellar numbers do NOT "trump all."

Speaking of exaggeration, I would like to see you back up the claim that Penn grads have a 95 percent acceptance rate at Penn Med...I have never heard of anything that ridiculously high for any school.

As for your confidence about having a fairly high MCAT...take the actual test, then get back to us on it...

Agreed. Numbers are only part of the equation. Med schools want it all. They want someone with high numerical stats, AND someone with lots of clinical experience. Things like research and other ECs are icing on the cake too, but don't replace clinical experience/exposure which you really have to look at as a prereq. And with as many as 10,000 applications for each school, they can be pretty picky and find folks who have everything they want. Most med schools will not admit someone to med school who doesn't have some decent clinical experience because the seats are too scarce to risk them on someone who is going to realize in a year that medicine isn't what they thought and they no longer want to be there. So they make them jump through hoops -- do lots of volunteering/shadowing, make them write essays about "why medicine?", focus on this question in the interview. And as a result, attrition is less than 5% at any US allo school. It IS important, not just for adcoms, but really should be for you too. You are picking a path that you are going to be on for the next 30-40 years. You will be borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars and spending the next decade in the library and wards. It should be important for you to know what you are getting yourself into. Get a regular volunteering gig at the local hospital (which will be the setting you will be spending your time at during much of med school and residency). Your research is well and nice, but very secondary.

FWIW, you (OP) have a very strange view of what volunteering is all about, which suggests to me you need to actually do some. No, research is not "like volunteering to the real world". Nor does tutoring (helping students having difficulties in subjects). Most premeds do both of those things ON TOP of REAL volunteering. Those are self serving statements but volunteering is not about self serving, or doing what you want to do or doing things that are part of your job or simply being a good colleague. Volunteering is where you work for a charity (or for clinical exposure purposes a hospital) and help out doing things that are necessary, albeit perhaps not always fun. And get exposure to patients, and watch doctor interactions with them, at the crudest levels. You have to see that before you know what medicine in its non-sanitized forms is like. I suspect you got none of that in your afternoon of plastics or neurosurg -- these are folks a decade past the dirty work.

 

[htownpremie]

some people seem to have alluded to this, but your volunteering and clinical exposure do not necessarily need to go hand in hand. at the baylor interview, where they hand you the evaluation form that the interviewer will ultimately use to assess you, "clinical exposure" was not used to define volunteering nor vice versa if i recall correctly. i think so long as you have exposure to the field, which can be done through physician shadowing, you can explore other ways of demonstrating altruism. volunteering is a great way to show others the kind of human spirit you have, but i also think schools will find it even more valuable if you show that there are other dimensions to it other than "exposure to the field" and "patient contact." tutoring is a pretty standard activity, though, and so is volunteering in a hospital. i was involved in both of those in addition to about 3-4 other leadership/volunteering type activities that were not necessarily directly medically related but from which i learned a great deal. i wouldn't necessarily drop the tutoring if i were you, but i would definitely look into something a little more unique that requires you demonstrate a little more leadership.

 

[Law2Doc]

some people seem to have alluded to this, but your volunteering and clinical exposure do not necessarily need to go hand in hand. at the baylor interview, where they hand you the evaluation form that the interviewer will ultimately use to assess you, "clinical exposure" was not used to define volunteering nor vice versa if i recall correctly. i think so long as you have exposure to the field, which can be done through physician shadowing, you can explore other ways of demonstrating altruism. volunteering is a great way to show others the kind of human spirit you have, but i also think schools will find it even more valuable if you show that there are other dimensions to it other than "exposure to the field" and "patient contact." tutoring is a pretty standard activity, though, and so is volunteering in a hospital. i was involved in both of those in addition to about 3-4 other leadership/volunteering type activities that were not necessarily directly medically related but from which i learned a great deal. i wouldn't necessarily drop the tutoring if i were you, but i would definitely look into something a little more unique that requires you demonstrate a little more leadership.

Yeah, there are a handful of med schools where they seem to want BOTH clinical experience AND altruistic volunteerism. As a result a lot of premeds not only spend time working in a hospital, but also do the soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, Big Brother Big Sister kind of volunteering. I've been to interviews where they focused on how folks gave back to the community. But most schools seem to be okay if you only have the hospital exposure though. At any rate, the OP suggesting that helping students learn information counts is absurd for either of these. You don't redefine what you are already doing as qualifying. You do things that qualify. The OP really needs to get out there. The resistance to the whole idea of volunteering is a pretty good sign that this is someone who had better change their tack. Medicine isn't a white shoe profession. It's a get down and dirty kind of profession. Best to show you are ready to roll in the mud with a good lengthy volunteering experience, where you both rack up the clinical exposure, as well as see the ugly underbelly.

 

[htownpremie]

Yeah, there are a handful of med schools where they seem to want BOTH clinical experience AND altruistic volunteerism. As a result a lot of premeds not only spend time working in a hospital, but also do the soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, Big Brother Big Sister kind of volunteering. I've been to interviews where they focused on how folks gave back to the community. But most schools seem to be okay if you only have the hospital exposure though. At any rate, the OP suggesting that helping students learn information counts is absurd for either of these. You don't redefine what you are already doing as qualifying. You do things that qualify. The OP really needs to get out there. The resistance to the whole idea of volunteering is a pretty good sign that this is someone who had better change their tack. Medicine isn't a white shoe profession. It's a get down and dirty kind of profession. Best to show you are ready to roll in the mud with a good lengthy volunteering experience, where you both rack up the clinical exposure, as well as see the ugly underbelly.

yeah the resistance to volunteering in a hospital sort of sends up red flags, just because it's a relatively easy hoop to jump through. although if you wanted to "kick it up a notch" and jump through a flaming hoop of volunteering, i'd go for the other sorts of volunteering that l2d mentioned in addition to volunteering in a hospital. i think with baylor you could satisfy both the altruism and exposure criteria via volunteering at a hospital, but i think it is up to you on how to work that out. if you wanted to do extensive shadowing, get a letter of rec out of it, and work at habitat, soup kitchen, etc. i think it would be just as well, but then again, i didn't really rely on too much shadowing for the "clinical exposure" bit. i think shadowing would be a more powerful asset if it came with some semblance of responsibility (i.e. if it were some sort of volunteering)...but if you're just following a doctor around--no responsibility to do anything. and, yah as l2d pointed out,tutoring, although a good thing, is a little thin to use to check off your volunteering commitment.

 

[rocketbooster]

my recommendation to get the clinical exposure + altruistic volunteering all at once is to volunteer for a free clinic and do outreach for them. the part of the volunteering in the clinic gives you clinical exposure and the outreach gets you volunteering on the community level. outreach isn't a desk job, you're out in the community helping everyone. sure, your outreach is for health care, but that wouldn't keep it from differentiating it from clinical experience. you aren't in a clinic, you're outside volunteering in the community.

 

[kandytrans]

I accept "my recommendation to get the clinical exposure + altruistic volunteering all at once is to volunteer for a free clinic and do outreach for them." by rocketbooster

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

so does volunteer work have to be health care related? what if somone shadows a doctor for a few months but volunteer stuff is all non healthcare?

 

[witness23]

.

 

[Omni]

You have until next fall before you get calls for interview (correct me if I'm wrong) so that leaves about 4 months. You should rack in a few hundred hours so that during your interview, you can at least talk about it.

 

[erdavis]

Hello,

I'll be applying to med school fairly soon (ah....how time does fly). I have not done any volunteering. However, I have done a lot of research. A lot more so than many other students. I have a few publications, and one where I'm the first author. Can this replace volunteering? I really don't want to go volunteer in some hospital or whatever. So can my research replace my volunteering? Will I be looked down up (at all) for not having "volunteering experience." It seems that everybody else has volunteered for this hospital, or that clinic, or this nonprofit, or that learning center for minorities, etc. If I tutored students in Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Statistics, etc could that be considered "volunteering?"

First I want to know why do you want to be a doctor? What mades you think that a physican is the right career for you?

I ask because of your statement of "I dont think much of feeding sick people and pushing them around ect." And it appears to me that you have and adversion to hopsitals and volunteering in general.

These things make me think that medicine isnt for you. You going to be spending 10+ hours,sometime 30hrs in a row in a hospital. As a pre-med you should feel at home at a hospital because it soon will be 🙂 And if you dont think much of pushing and feeding sick people then I sure your not going think much of REALLY DIRTY WORK that you're going to HAVE TO DO as a medstudent or resident. If you cant handle doing work that displeases you for 3 hrs a week ,how in the well will you be able to handle 4 month of rotation you hate or skunt work your attendings will make you do in residency.

On the journey to becoming a doctor, we have to do things that we dont want to do in order to do the thing that we want most. If you cant handle unpleasnt work I think you'll be miserable in medicine. And I dont want that happen to you 🙂

 

[erdavis]

Futhermore shadowing and volunteering is pre med 101. Why would you want your app to lack the fundamentals. Your research can make up for some of your volunteering hrs but you cant replace it altogether. At a minimum you need 100 hr community service. It doesnt matter in what ( hospital or no hospital) but get some.

I've seen people get into medschool without any research experience but Never seen a person get without any volunteering experiences get in.

Some people think volunteering is useless because it doesnt direct pertain to medicine. Well if that they case everything you do as a pre med is useless because none it directly pertains to medicine.lol I think thats why its call Pre Med!!

However Everything you as a pre med is an indirect assessment of your ability to be a sucessful doctor, which to me seems quite USEFUL 😛

 

[LizzyM]

I was a patient in the hospital earlier this year and a volunteer pushed my wheelchair out to the curb when it was time to go home. It might seem like "nothing" and "unrelated to medicine" but it requires introducing yourself to the patient and putting them at ease, (something docs need to do, too) attention to detail (do not ram the lady's bandaged leg into the wall when you approach the elevator), and sacrificing your own comfort for the benefit of the patient (yes, it may be below freezing outside but dropping her in the lobby is not an option).

Medicine is a service business and I can't emphasize enough how the transportation service provided by volunteers gives you a chance to practice being of service. How can I make this easy for you? How can I put you at ease and make the time we spend together more pleasant (with small talk in the elevator or just a cheerful smile)? How can I assure that I don't cause you any unnecessary pain? (Did I mention how important attention to detail is?)

Adcoms want to see that you have had some experience being of service to others. They want to see that you've spent some time in a hospital or other clinical setting with sick and/or injured people. These two experiences can be folded into one activity or they can be separate activities (paid time in the hospital and a volunteer service activity beside).

No volunteering? Proceed with caution.

 

[luckystars07]

Hello,

I'll be applying to med school fairly soon (ah....how time does fly). I have not done any volunteering. However, I have done a lot of research. A lot more so than many other students. I have a few publications, and one where I'm the first author. Can this replace volunteering? I really don't want to go volunteer in some hospital or whatever. Research, in a sense, is like volunteering to the real world. You crank out information that other people can freely access, and which helps progress the sciences. So can my research replace my volunteering? Will I be looked down up (at all) for not having "volunteering experience." It seems that everybody else has volunteered for this hospital, or that clinic, or this nonprofit, or that learning center for minorities, etc. If I tutored students in Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Statistics, etc could that be considered "volunteering?"

Here's my story: I did one year of research when I was in college. After graduating from college, I worked as a research assistant at a medical school for more than a year. I didn't have any publications, but participated in a few poster competitions (both at school & national level). I tutored students in chem, math, biol during my 4 years in college.
I volunteered for about a year and a half (at 3 different places). Then, I stopped volunteering when I started my job. I didn't have any shadowing experiences.

While it's important to have some research experiences, you cannot ignore the importance of volunteering & shadowing. I applied last year, got 2 inteviews (luckily I got into one). I emailed & asked the school which rejected me for the reasons. Here's one of the comments from 1 of my interviewers: "a lot of research experiences... better suited for a career in research (PhD???)" They also told me that I shouldn't have stopped volunteering. At both interviews, they asked me about my volunteer experiences, & I got asked once if I've done any shadowing. The interviewer didn't like it when I answered "no" to this question 🙁...

 

[Climberak]

Just a reminder to all of you applying this year:

If you want to be competitive, you need clinical experience. The more diverse experiences you have, the more competitive you are. The longer you do it, the more competitive you are. The more you interact with patients, the more competitive you are. A summer of shadowing a family friend at their practice does not show the admissions committee that you have truly thought about a career in medicine. More importantly, are you really going to make a decision that will cost you $200,000 (on average) and at least seven hard years of your life based on this one experience? I wouldn't.

OP, why do you want to be a doctor? Is it money? Prestige? Helping others? A passion for the subject? How are you sure that you're making the right decision? Wouldn't you rather be doing research, since you have so much experience in that avenue? You don't have to answer these questions, but at the very least you should give them some thought. When I started out, I didn't have all of the answers. All I had was an initial interest that I acted on. Through my experiences of volunteering at hospitals and clinics, shadowing, and community service, I found the answers I was looking for. If you are already 100% sure you know these answers, go ahead and apply. However, be warned: with little clinical experience and volunteer work, you will be less competitive than others who have had these experiences and have been enriched by them, even if they are lacking in research experience.

 

[circulus vitios]

OP, why do you want to be a doctor? Is it money? Prestige? Helping others? A passion for the subject? How are you sure that you're making the right decision? Wouldn't you rather be doing research, since you have so much experience in that avenue? You don't have to answer these questions, but at the very least you should give them some thought. When I started out, I didn't have all of the answers. All I had was an initial interest that I acted on. Through my experiences of volunteering at hospitals and clinics, shadowing, and community service, I found the answers I was looking for. If you are already 100% sure you know these answers, go ahead and apply. However, be warned: with little clinical experience and volunteer work, you will be less competitive than others who have had these experiences and have been enriched by them, even if they are lacking in research experience.

Everyone asks the money/prestige question, but they never like the answer when someone answers truthfully...

 

[Climberak]

Everyone asks the money/prestige question, but they never like the answer when someone answers truthfully...

I don't care what his reasons are for going into medicine, everyone has their own. But, I do hope that he has given them deep consideration and is confident with these reasons.

 

[ArkansasHogMD]

Looking at your low post count, it must explain how little you know about this process from the above.

If you think we are exaggerating about people with stellar stats getting rejected if they have no clinical volunteering, go right ahead and give it a try. Stellar numbers do NOT "trump all."

Speaking of exaggeration, I would like to see you back up the claim that Penn grads have a 95 percent acceptance rate at Penn Med...I have never heard of anything that ridiculously high for any school.

As for your confidence about having a fairly high MCAT...take the actual test, then get back to us on it...

This. I got in with a 3.6 and 24 in my mcat because I made it impossible formthem to say no with all of my intangibles such as research AND volunteering and clinical experience. You HAVE to have some sort of record of altruism in your application. One of the questions in my interview was "what have you done recently that was compassionate?" If you have difficulty answering that question you're in trouble. It doesn't matter what your stats are.

 

[Calla lily]

If it helps, volunteering in an ER was what made me realize that I'd much rather be doing patient care-type medicine rather than do MD/PhD or any kind of research at all. I think research is valuable, and congrats on your accomplishments, but I feel that medschools want to see some sort of altruism on your application that they can verify when they interview you.