Residencies

[Steiner]

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Is there any difference in timeframe of residencies in the same field whether you go DO or MD. For example, if you go into an osteopathic graduate radiology program, is it 4 years plus an internal medicine year, or are the timeframes different for MD and DO?

Anesthesia is 1 internal med + 3 years Anesthesia for MD's
Diag Rad is 1 + 4 for MD's

 

[Steiner]

Nobody has an info on this?

 

[Taus]

its the same....there are 5 states that require a separate internship for DO's....but its extremely rare to not have that worked into your residency or get around it completely



nice avatar....2 in the pink....one in the.....

 

[It'sElectric]

Most DO residencies are going to the "specialized track" in which the time frame is the same as allopathic residencies. There are some that still may require an additional year but these residencies that I'm aware of are also in specialities where allo residencies can vary in time as well ... the example of thinking of is EM. There are 3-4 yr EM programs in allo and my limited experience with osteo residencies are they are 4 yrs.

As the above poster mentioned, the 5 states that require your intern year in an "osteopathic" program in order to practice are included in this blanket statement. Many such as PA and OK do allow "specialty" tracks where your intern year provides you the requirements of the intern year but allows you a more specialized track.

It's also my understanding that this whole intern year BS is going to be done away with soon enough. At least as far as the 5 remaining states are concerned.

 

[jkhamlin]

It's also my understanding that this whole intern year BS is going to be done away with soon enough. At least as far as the 5 remaining states are concerned.

If you are talking about the Osteopathic traditional one year rotating internship, don't be so quick to call it BS. The physician that has been my mentor did one, and picked up many clinical skills that other IM docs don't have that not only helps his patients, but also makes lots more money for him.

 

[It'sElectric]

If you are talking about the Osteopathic traditional one year rotating internship, don't be so quick to call it BS. The physician that has been my mentor did one, and picked up many clinical skills that other IM docs don't have that not only helps his patients, but also makes lots more money for him.

Yes, I am talking about that particular year. I call it BS, because of how it attempts to limit people's residency choices. If you don't do an approved internship year, then you're banned from practicing as a DO in 5 states....that's absolutely ridiculous in my mind and thus qualifies as BS. I'm sure it's a wonderful experience for some people, but why should it be a requirement to practice if thousands of physicians don't do one each year and are more than competent?

 

[DrMom]

Whatever you think of the Osteo internship, it is generally simple to get an MD internship approved by the AOA. There are some pitfalls (ie: you're located really close to an osteo residency in the same specialty, so in theory you could have done that one instead), but the vast majority of applications are approved.

 

[Dr JPH]

It's also my understanding that this whole intern year BS is going to be done away with soon enough. At least as far as the 5 remaining states are concerned.

🙄

1. Regardless of your program you will be an intern no matter what
2. There is no talk of getting rid of the requirement for the internship
3. The only people who get "screwed" and have to repeat a year or end up doing an additional year are those who initially do the osteopathic internship unsure of their future plans and then match into an allopathic residency that requires an ACGME accredited internship.

 

[Taus]

Whatever you think of the Osteo internship, it is generally simple to get an MD internship approved by the AOA. There are some pitfalls (ie: you're located really close to an osteo residency in the same specialty, so in theory you could have done that one instead), but the vast majority of applications are approved.

as stated in the new edition of Isersons....only 4 out of over 400 petitions have been denied since proposition 42 started in 2000

 

[jkhamlin]

🙄

1. Regardless of your program you will be an intern no matter what
2. There is no talk of getting rid of the requirement for the internship
3. The only people who get "screwed" and have to repeat a year or end up doing an additional year are those who initially do the osteopathic internship unsure of their future plans and then match into an allopathic residency that requires an ACGME accredited internship.

👍 Exactly.

To me, I just cannot see how this is getting screwed. More training = more benefit to your patients and yourself. That's the main reason I applied DO only in the first place. The extra training I will get in the rotating internship that I will do, even though not required, is just icing on the cake.

 

[Taus]

👍 Exactly.

To me, I just cannot see how this is getting screwed. More training = more benefit to your patients and yourself. That's the main reason I applied DO only in the first place. The extra training I will get in the rotating internship that I will do, even though not required, is just icing on the cake.

I hate to say this, but there is no way in hell I'd train a year longer then I had to, unless I was gaining a specific set of skills (ie in a fellowship).

I have a feeling you may change your mind when you are in med school and realize how frickin long this process really is... and also the fact that if you do an extra intern year and then proceed to do a complete residency + 2nd intern year, there is a good chance you will not be paid for the final year (The gov't doesn't like paying for the same thing twice...) If money is no option to you and the non-funded year, loss of a years physician salary, and interest gained on your loans won't bother you......then more power to you.

but to each his/her own....

 

[jkhamlin]

I hate to say this, but there is no way in hell I'd train a year longer then I had to, unless I was gaining a specific set of skills (ie in a fellowship).

I have a feeling you may change your mind when you are in med school and realize how frickin long this process really is... and also the fact that if you do an extra intern year and then proceed to do a complete residency + 2nd intern year, there is a good chance you will not be paid for the final year (The gov't doesn't like paying for the same thing twice...) If money is no option to you and the non-funded year, loss of a years physician salary, and interest gained on your loans won't bother you......then more power to you.

but to each his/her own....

That's sad; I wouldn't go to a doctor who had that attitude about learning.

FYI, my mentor who did the rotating internship picked up several useful skills. Two very useful ones he picked up were endoscopy and echocardiograms. He evaluates a couple of echos in the morning for an hour or two, sees as many patients in the morning as any doctor, and then scopes a few in the early afternoon after lunch just before he does hospital rounds in the late afternoon, early evening. He does many of the scopes and echos for the other internists in the clinic he works in because they didn't bother to do the rotating internship and pick up any additional skills.

 

[MJB]

Can someone clue me in as to what the 5 states are? I seem to have missed that in my research...thanks.

 

[Taus]

That's sad; I wouldn't go to a doctor who had that attitude about learning.

FYI, my mentor who did the rotating internship picked up several useful skills. Two very useful ones he picked up were endoscopy and echocardiograms. He evaluates a couple of echos in the morning for an hour or two, sees as many patients in the morning as any doctor, and then scopes a few in the early afternoon after lunch just before he does hospital rounds in the late afternoon, early evening. He does many of the scopes and echos for the other internists in the clinic he works in because they didn't bother to do the rotating internship and pick up any additional skills.

Thats great for that Doc, but the same could have probably been accomplished during elective time during residency and/or some CME classes. I love learning as much as anybody...but after 8-10 years post-college one has to be realistic. Thank you for judging my ability as a future physician though.

 

[It'sElectric]

I hate to say this, but there is no way in hell I'd train a year longer then I had to, unless I was gaining a specific set of skills (ie in a fellowship).

I have a feeling you may change your mind when you are in med school and realize how frickin long this process really is... and also the fact that if you do an extra intern year and then proceed to do a complete residency + 2nd intern year, there is a good chance you will not be paid for the final year (The gov't doesn't like paying for the same thing twice...) If money is no option to you and the non-funded year, loss of a years physician salary, and interest gained on your loans won't bother you......then more power to you.

but to each his/her own....

Agreed. There are better, less expensive ways to gain knowledge. If you think that you're not gaining an incredible amount of experiences beyond residency, then you're mistaken. It's not like your internship year and residency are the only years you learn. It's a constantly evolving process....obviously.

 

[Claymore]

That's sad; I wouldn't go to a doctor who had that attitude about learning.

FYI, my mentor who did the rotating internship picked up several useful skills. Two very useful ones he picked up were endoscopy and echocardiograms. He evaluates a couple of echos in the morning for an hour or two, sees as many patients in the morning as any doctor, and then scopes a few in the early afternoon after lunch just before he does hospital rounds in the late afternoon, early evening. He does many of the scopes and echos for the other internists in the clinic he works in because they didn't bother to do the rotating internship and pick up any additional skills.

JKHamlin, are you talking about doing 2 intern years? It seems that way when you describe the benefits you will get with "extra" training. Of course everyone does an internship year, some of us just don't do the rotating one. And trust me that is enough. If you are seriously thinking of doing two intern years, have fun with what will be a royal waste of time. You have no idea what intern year entails.

 

[jkhamlin]

JKHamlin, are you talking about doing 2 intern years? It seems that way when you describe the benefits you will get with "extra" training. Of course everyone does an internship year, some of us just don't do the rotating one. And trust me that is enough. If you are seriously thinking of doing two intern years, have fun with what will be a royal waste of time. You have no idea what intern year entails.

I am talking about the traditional year of rotating internship before going on to a full residency.

It is not a waste of time, and the skills you can get cannot be just picked up in your spare time (as if you would have any) during a residency.